Dude says "God doesn't EXIST!" says this world is a mystery

HashiraMadara

Active member
Elite
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Messages
6,683
Kin
137💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Only if you mean metaphysical naturalism. Methodological naturalism is perfectly compatible with belief in God.
You know exactly what I mean... U_U

Likewise, one can prove God exists if they manage to show that the notion of the said God not existing is incoherent or if the world as described could only be possible if the said God exists. (For example should the world turn out to be created by something, then that would effectively prove the existence of the said God who is described as creating the world.)
ehh be careful how you use "prove" and secondly arguing forth your notion of God helps no one but yourself (ego stroking) you don't take other's premises but ones created by yourself and ideal for your own argument form.

It's called "chef's argument": A Chef can do no wrong when the recipes are his. Your only helped on "your own God's notion"

True chef should form beauty out of requested recipes hence "not everyone believes in God's existence..."


Why are you interjecting yourself in a situation like this where no one is talking about you?
Ehh wait
.
.
.
oh yeah this is a forum site if you're feeling claustrophobic try another hobby:|
 
Last edited:

Avani

Supreme
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
20,193
Kin
5,702💸
Kumi
497💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
So you wanted me to trip, get mad and be a crybaby about it?

Too bad, huh. :coffee:


Btw congrats on that achievement of succeeding in making a religious folk mad... must take some real feats to do it, right? :kd:
Why are you acting up in the first place tying to start something?

And why thank you!! But nope it's not a big deal. Some of them seem to have ultra thin skin.
 

Marin

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Dec 9, 2015
Messages
4,796
Kin
306💸
Kumi
2,001💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
You know exactly what I mean.../B]
It's your job to explain your position. I don't know what's in your head and don't care.

ehh be careful how you use "prove"
There is nothing inadequate about the way I used it.

and secondly arguing forth your notion of God helps no one but yourself (ego stroking) you don't take other's premises but ones created by yourself and ideal for your own argument form.

It's called "chef's argument": A Chef can do no wrong when the recipes are his. Your only helped on "your own God's notion"

True chef should form beauty out of requested recipes hence "not everyone believes in God's existence..."
You're making no sense. I can't argue for my position because it's mine and not someone else' and because the arguments I use are the ones I preffer rather than those of my opponets (who would by default want the opposite of me)? "You shouldn't argue for your position but for the one your opponet holds." That's how your post reads.
 

Deadlift

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Dec 8, 2015
Messages
2,387
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Wut?



No idea what you inferred from my post to say that but probably it's something I don't even care about so whatever.
?
You said you met people who were really concerned about those issues despite not being religious. So I don't understand why you think that there is a correlation between the two things
 

Dantе

Banned
Elite
Joined
Mar 14, 2014
Messages
5,721
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
I was planning to infract you, which I could do for multiple reasons including spamming, multi-posting and insulting people, however that would have meant an instant ban for you as you already have 2 active infraction points. So I decided to give you one last chance despite the reality I know that it's completely wasted on you as you are a lost cause on pretty much all fronts. So one chance and if you screw it up then it will lead to a permanent ban from this section on top of a lengthy ban from the forums, which also has the additional benefit that we don't have to waste time anymore on reports about you. Either you are stupendously naive and ignorant, which makes you incapable of even thinking about matters like this, or you are a flat out troll or both. Whatever might be the case the result remains the same, namely that this thread is an utter fallacy.



Those brilliant minds can tell countless of things about dreams. They can't however say for certain what exactly is the purpose as, unlike you, they don't have an ancient, dubious and contradictory manmade compilation book that has the answer written in it. Those minds can give you countless of theories and possibilities, most of which are very plausible, but they can't say with a 100% certainty that one of them is legit as there is nothing that can confirm its authenticity. You talk like dreams are something simple, but they are not. They're highly complex and very difficult to research.



Did you now seriously use a riddle meant to give children a head scratcher as an argument against the potential non-existence of a god? The reason why children get confused by this riddle, is because they see the world in a rather static fashion. They see a chicken, they see an egg. Chicken lay eggs from which new chickens emerge, so how can that be? Where's the start of this infinite loop? However scientists don't see a chicken and an egg, they see a species that's the result of millions of years of evolution and that is still evolving. It's not something static. For science this is not a viable riddle as when should they then consider a chicken as a chicken and an egg as an egg? The answer to that supposed riddle would completely depend on the perception as for instance a chicken is a descendant from the dinosaurs, but that doesn't make dinosaurs chicken. And btw there have been scientists who seriously investigated this and provided answers. The truth is that it's not a riddle at all.

I don't know if I have to laugh or cry about the fact that you brought this up.



The very reason as why it's been theorized there's a 9th planet, is because scientists made the observations that there is something off with movements of several celestial bodies, which can be explained by an additional unknown planet. The problem is that this theoretical planet is hidden from view. The Solar System is vast and even with the state of the art technology our means to explore the Universe are severely limited. It has been calculated that if there is indeed an unknown planet, it has to have such a wide orbit around the sun that it would take thousands of years to make one complete trip and that presumably for the entire duration mankind has studied the planetary movements, it has never appeared in plain sight. You can't see something if it's hidden behind something else. If the view of this planet is blocked by numerous other celestial bodies, well then it's freaking hard to determine its existence. Again this is really not a simple matter, but it seems you have the tendency to simplify the world in your mind.

It's also nonsensical that you throw into the faces of scientists that they can't find a planet while they are the ones who largely brought up this unknown hypothetical planet. You are essentially throwing information into their faces you received from them.



James Cameron, as a publicity stunt, went to one of the deepest parts of the oceans all the way to the bottom. The problem here is that such a trip is highly expensive, not in the least because you need to use highly expensive custom made and sensitive equipment, let alone performing it multiple times. To research all the oceans, you would need to make hell of a lot of trips. There are simply too many practical issues involved here, its also highly dangerous.



No they don't. Putting aside the centuries old myths, scientist have been theorizing for decades about the existence of giant squads. Amongst others because they found remains inside the stomachs of stranded whales. Estimations were made based on those remains and the results were that they had to be quite big. The problem however is, as I explained before, that it's highly difficult to investigate them and unlike you they are not going to naively assume things. To properly define a new species, they first have to collect enough information: how many are there? Where do they live? What do they eat? How do they reproduce? etc. It's possible that giant squids are really nothing more than oversized normal squids, just like that there are humans who are unnaturally tall.



It seems you are quite confused about the point you tried to make yourself. Essentially this comes down to the idea that we still know very little about our world and the universe, ergo we can't say for certain that somewhere there is a god lurking. As an argument that's extremely weak as that just comes down to the concept of not being able to disprove something. You can't prove it, but neither disprove it. However putting that aside you seem to be completely unaware that this means that there could be an infinite amount of possibilities and that your god is only one of them.

So congratulations, you just placed your own god in the same league as a big, fat, purple, bisexually transvestite hippo that loves to twerk, lives in a pineapple at the bottom of the ocean and who in its free time plays intergalactic golf with planets trying to score a black hole in one. I mean there is so little we know and according to your logic there is nothing that makes your god more credible than the hippo.



During the era of these 'ancient humans' (can you be more vague?), most people were illiterate and simple. Only a small amount of people could read and write. Learning those two was expensive, not only because it was difficult, but also because the materials weren't cheap. Hence why in many cultures the act of writing was considered sacred. So you couldn't just write anything you wanted anywhere. Writing was used only for very specific tasks and the majority of all the written records produced by mankind has disappeared. We only have a fraction of the records at our disposal and all of them have interpretation issues in various degrees. But somehow you know exactly what someone who has been dead for millennia was trying to say?

Do you know that game where you whisper a sentence into someone's ear and that person then whispers it into someone else's and after a while the last person says the sentence and it doesn't resemble the original sentence at all? Well multiply that a hundred fold and that's how most records are. Imagine tomorrow a disaster happens and mankind is nearly wiped out. The civilization level is rapidly thrown back several centuries and it will take another millennium to reach back the current level. Archeologists and historians try to research the history of mankind before the disaster and they find Japanese tentacle porn and then one of them interprets that as "omg tentacled aliens invaded earth and raped and impregnated women". That's you right now. "Omg a human with wings is portrayed, what does this mean? Oh btw I'm going to watch DBZ, you know the anime where people fly".



Ancient humans recorded a lot of things, including humans with two heads, four legs and four arms. As I said before the credibility of these records isn't very high. You are apparently under the impression that just because something is ancient it somehow is more credible. It is not, in fact it's the opposite.

Scientists have found the remains of giant monkey species. Burying fake giant bones and then excavate them is also not uncommon. There's even an instant that a prank like this went too far. You also need to be certain that it's simply not a large human with a condition. Ever heard of gigantism? Also the average height was till recently still very low. If you would be able to go to the past a thousand years ago, most people would have to look up at you. So the human perception of a giant is by default rather subjective. You really would need to find multiple intact giant skeletons to back this up on top of solving the anatomical issues as likewise scientists have researched what would be needed to let such a huge body function and the results weren't positive.



You seem to not even realize that the god you believe in and that the god you are trying to prove here, are not even remotely the same thing. You also seem to be completely oblivious about the fact that nothing you wrote actually supports the idea of the existence of a god. Somehow giant squids and unknown planets are proof for a god. I didn't know there was a section in the Bible that gives an overview of all the planets in existence and that it contains an autopsy report of the dissection of a giant squid. Somehow this all is supposed to be working against science despite the fact that god is scoring even worse in that aspect.



If not believing in god is dumb, then by default believing in a god would be even worse than that following your own reasoning. It would be borderline retardation or what is the dumbest? Accepting that you have limited information about the world, but via observations, experiments and research try to gain new information and, if needed, edit older information based on new findings all to gain universal knowledge or believing in a deity that has the same credibility as a purple hippo with gender issues?



If what I see around me is the proof of a god, that god needs a shrink asap as he has some severe mental issues. On your left side you see people blowing themselves up randomly. On your right side you see people starving in the gutter and in front of you see the preparations of WW III. Isn't it wonderful ^w^



Do you know how I imagine this sentence? As a kid that just received a new toy, but threw it away after 5 minutes and then 40 years later when that same child all grown up is cleaning out the attic, he finds his old toys back and sees that they started a cult that revers him as a supreme deity and they then ask him about the meaning of their existence. The child then completely freaks out and throws the toys away.



Says the guy who is citing a dubious manmade compiled book that has so many obvious contradictions that even 1600 years ago prominent Christians had to point out that if you blindly and literally accept everything that's written in the Bible as an absolute truth, you're screwing yourself over as the moment a more acceptable alternative explanation is provided (science), the entire Bible loses its credibility. You know the thing you are doing right now.


And if all this was too long or too difficult for you to read. Let me put in a more simplistic way: you are free to believe in any god you want and place him outside our realm of existence, completely untouched by any kind of law, reason or logic. However you really need to realize that the moment you try to prove the existence of a being that by its very core is unreasonable with a supposed logical reasoning and argumentation, the only thing you do is hammering the nails of the god's coffin. You have more success by simply shutting up as the only thing argumentation like yours does is making it that much more obvious how feeble god's potential existence actually is.
Is someone actually supposed to read all this?

Why are you acting up in the first place tying to start something?

And why thank you!! But nope it's not a big deal. Some of them seem to have ultra thin skin.
>What is an open forum
 

Avani

Supreme
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
20,193
Kin
5,702💸
Kumi
497💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
You said you met people who were really concerned about those issues despite not being religious. So I don't understand why you think that there is a correlation between the two things
You misread the post. I was talking about a conversation which involved a lot of different themes, including references to religious myths/legends regarding giants. I am not interested in sharing rest of the conversation. I was just reminded of it.

Religious people of course buy more readily into it as giants are mentioned in religious scriptures too. e.g. :

And nope I don't believe in that story of naugaja peer and in fact have a very good reason to believe it's a scam. Someone I know once confessed being part of the said scam.

Is someone actually supposed to read all this?



>What is an open forum

Open forum with forum rules. What you are doing is starting a hostile argument for no reason at all and such behaviour is not acceptable. Faster you understand it, better it would be.
 
Last edited:

HashiraMadara

Active member
Elite
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Messages
6,683
Kin
137💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
It's your job to explain your position. I don't know what's in your head and don't care.
[COLOR="FF000"]Make it easy then don't quote something you don't care about, simple.[/COLOR]



There is nothing inadequate about the way I used it.
[COLOR="FF000"]If you prove your notion of God why then is this a debate [/COLOR]



You're making no sense. I can't argue for my position because it's mine and not someone else' and because the arguments I use are the ones I preffer rather than those of my opponets (who would by default want the opposite of me)? "You shouldn't argue for your position but for the one your opponet holds." That's how your post reads.
OMG, you have a long way to go with this blinding arrogance:
The reason I am saying you're putting your disposition is:
* Your notion of God helps not someone wanting to see God to Believe
* Your notion of God includes a Des natural verse which isn't much of a proved deal itself

* The most important you're cutting and pasting "ontological argument" to prove a God to good to be true an outdated shit refuted by the Monk Neuce over 600 years ago: Your series of argument can be easily used to proof anything "too good to be true" substitution "God is one which none can exist greater than" with "exist an island with such none can be greater than" :|
More info on this rubbish I keep on avoiding in your threads search "dreamboat counter argument"...
 

Marin

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Dec 9, 2015
Messages
4,796
Kin
306💸
Kumi
2,001💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
Make it easy then don't quote something you don't care about, simple.
I don't care what's in your head. I do care for whatever serious criticism may be directed at my views. As I said, it is up to you to clarify what your position is, not me.

If you prove your notion of God why then is this a debate
The aim of a debate on the topic of theism is more often than not to prove/disprove God's existence. I didn't claim that I would do it nor that I have done it. I merely reflected on the fact that it is possible to prove and disprove a view so long as the view is either a logical necessity (analytic truth) or logically impossible (incoherent). The "debate" we're having (whatever it may be), need not be of this matter.

OMG, you have a long way to go with this blinding arrogance:
The reason I am saying you're putting your disposition is:
* Your notion of God helps not someone wanting to see God to Believe
* Your notion of God includes a Des natural verse which isn't much of a proved deal itself

* The most important you're cutting and pasting "ontological argument" to prove a God to good to be true an outdated shit refuted by the Monk Neuce over 600 years ago: Your series of argument can be easily used to proof anything "too good to be true" substitution "God is one which none can exist greater than" with "exist an island with such none can be greater than" :|
More info on this rubbish I keep on avoiding in your threads search "dreamboat counter argument"...
Never have I really brought out the ontological argument but merely alluded to the fact that concepts such as God, in all their trancendency, can be effectively proved or disproved on the scenario that you can demonstrate one of the two things I have mentioned (logical necessity - logical impossibility). Since you bring up the ontological argument I will reflect that your views are quite outdated. Not only has Gaunilo (the monk you're reffering to) failed in refuting the argument as proposed by st. Anselm (this credit goes to Immanuel Kant) but the ontological argument is fine and well in modern times and has been such for quite some time after Platinga's successful revival and has had a nice reformation under Robert Maydole's work.

I cannot help but remark on the blinding arrogance (or should I say ignorance) you display with your comment.

do you have buttons in place of your eyes or your reading comprehension is as shitty as your posts.I did not report you or your thread

The only thing you can roast is your own brain my making threads like this :lol
Hey, atleast we got to see a staff member get down and dirty. That's gotta be worth something no? ^^
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Deadlift

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Dec 8, 2015
Messages
2,387
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
You misread the post. I was talking about a conversation which involved a lot of different themes, including references to religious myths/legends regarding giants. I am not interested in sharing rest of the conversation. I was just reminded of it.

Religious people of course buy more readily into it as giants are mentioned in religious scriptures too. e.g. :

And nope I don't believe in that story of naugaja peer and in fact have a very good reason to believe it's a scam. Someone I know once confessed being part of the said scam.
Now I get it, by the way it's not even true that religious people are more credulous when it's about these issues. I personally am a strong opponent of glossolalia, despite it being described as a religious phenomenon. On the other hand, you have plenty of non theists or agnostics who frequent fortune tellers. So it's not to belong to an organized religion that condemns you to credulity, nor the lack of belief in God saves you from it
 

Lelouch Vii Britannia

Active member
Regular
Joined
Dec 3, 2014
Messages
775
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
There is no point in making this thread as if your magically gonna convert someone

While debating atheists try to use the word "God" less and speak more in their language to convince them about your view point
 
Last edited:

YowYan

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
15,124
Kin
1,244💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
This part reminded me of a conversation I had with someone a week or two ago...Some people seem to take the conspiracy theories regarding it to seriously despite not being religious..
Hey now .__. I thought I told you I was entertaining the idea as it was interesting to me. That does not mean I'm deadset on said theory.
 

Avani

Supreme
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
20,193
Kin
5,702💸
Kumi
497💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Now I get it, by the way it's not even true that religious people are more credulous when it's about these issues. I personally am a strong opponent of glossolalia, despite it being described as a religious phenomenon. On the other hand, you have plenty of non theists or agnostics who frequent fortune tellers. So it's not to belong to an organized religion that condemns you to credulity, nor the lack of belief in God saves you from it
I didn't say 'every religious person', did I?

Naugaja peer is very a popular shrine and telling them truth about it is a asking for trouble. For that matter any grave which attracts devotees has potential of getting you murdered once it's been established. It doesn't matter if you had buried your dead cat there and know they have mistaken it for some saint with supernatural powers.

PS: this is just one of the examples.

Hey now .__. I thought I told you I was entertaining the idea as it was interesting to me. That does not mean I'm deadset on said theory.
A second guy claiming that he was the one having this conversation with me!! How many of you are going to jump in!!

Lol kidding. You are taking it the wrong way. It was a passing comment and I didn't think that post would attract this many people. It's now getting out of hand. I will rather PM you the reply if you want one.
 
Last edited:

YowYan

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
15,124
Kin
1,244💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
A second guy claiming that he was the one having this conversation with me!! How many of you are going to jump in!!

Lol kidding. You are taking it the wrong way. It was a passing comment and I didn't think that post would attract this many people. It's now getting out of hand. I will rather PM you the reply if you want a reply.
Oh, it's fine. I didn't take it as an insult, I'm just saying it's not like I'm totally convinced of the idea of giants.
 

Arian

Active member
Elite
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
5,817
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
just cause YOU dont know shit doesnt mean a damn thing. there is a biological explanation for the chicken egg problem, but youre just too dumb to understand it.

[video=youtube;1a8pI65emDE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a8pI65emDE[/video]
 

Pyro NB

Amegakure
Elite
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Messages
8,809
Kin
1,595💸
Kumi
10,937💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
just cause YOU dont know shit doesnt mean a damn thing. there is a biological explanation for the chicken egg problem, but youre just too dumb to understand it.

[video=youtube;1a8pI65emDE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a8pI65emDE[/video]
I didn't think chicken v egg got this serious >.> but interesting explaination none the less.

OT: As for the god question until you can prove /he/she/it does or does not exist why waste your time arguing?
 
Top