DSM Kabuto VS EMS Sasuke
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KidGamer65
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No, that statement only refers to the slash Hashirama had to dodge himself.
First one was blocked.
Second one wasn't coming for him.
Third one was evaded.
He evaded it once, and that's it.
Point?
Irrelevant. We are talking about Kabuto, who needs to evade it, not dodge it.
Same as above.
You are speculating that they managed to avoid PS slashes. That's what you are speculating.
Gokage weren't shown doing anything. Just more of your speculation.
Hashirama only evaded one, and he can keep up with people far faster than Kabuto, so giving him that feat is useless.
The speculation is it being able to move faster than any sea animal.
Far better senses isn't an argument. Telling me that Manda II>Manda I when it comes to senses doesn't give you a valid point. Either bring feats to prove that it will be able to do so before the slash hits it or don't bother at all.
PS already dwarfs the Myojinmon Gates that held the Juubi.
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And those are all Bijuu sized right there.
PS is near the Juubi's size minus the tails.
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Size is irrelevant anyway. Manda gets bisected and that's that. You have no evidence towards the contrary.
Manda II is already stated and shown to be stronger than Manda in every way, terrible analogy.
lol, here we go. Not agreeing with your BS speculation=/=Me being bias. Sorry pal. Come with arguments that have valid evidence or don't come at all.
"Better senses let it evade all attacks"
"Size lets it block all attacks"
These aren't forms of evidence. Period. Just you stating your bias opinion.
That isn't a PS blade as you can clearly see. You can also clearly see on the next page that Madara leveled up to PS AFTER the clash. Once again, you have no point.
No, its not applied here reasonably, you are just making flawed comparisons as usual.
No proof that they are Hidden Snakes. No evidence either. Manga shows them to be far different from the average snake anyway.
Now you already stated you are only going by your personal interpretation with no evidence to back up the ability of Kabuto. Your interpretation from here hold no water with evidence to claim it is true.
Not seeing how any of this disproves my claims.
Lol, this means nothing. This doesn't change the fact that when he sloughed off his skin it was stated that KABUTO was the one doing it. It was shown that they couldn't locate the real KABUTO. Not his summoned snakes.
Uh, no its not. Cause its shown that Kabuto got away.
This is irrelevant either way.
Instead of relying on shaky evidence why don't you bring definitive proof that Kabuto can do what you claim he can do to Manda II? Not even gonna bother with this point until I see some real evidence and not the usual nonsense.
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Gaara Of The Death
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Brother Numpsay
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I don't know where you are going with, by separating "dodging" and "evading" in context, and why its important.
Defend,parry, and counter before it gets destructive.
.....
Well I can't state that they didn't either, can I? But lets say they didn't avoid PS. What does this ending result tell you, personally?
What am I speculating? They fought Madara off screen, fact.[
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][
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]Ok, stating "any" was an exaggeration. But Motoi stated something is coming rapidly, when Manda II is not even a sea monster says alot.
Whats feats needs be shown, when its all about distance role play.
1. Dwarfs? What kind of scaling is that? You can literally draw a straight line from their distance, from their height.[
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]2. How:
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3. And how does this conclude being bigger or about the same scale as the Turtle Island.
What do you mean no evidence? Kabuto's contract summon can act as S/T. That fact that he was able to start Manda II underwater, when he needed to fly for his destination, and also took advantage of reverse summon[
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], shows what distance can favor Kabuto to use Manda II. In fact he can Manda II start coming from underground, since Kabuto knows how to perform Doton: Moguragakure.1.Never said better senses will evade all attack, I stated it can help predicti the sword movement and acting to parry it's swing.
2. What do you mean all? Its only a slash that is swung by an entity, your exaggerating my claims. I am clearly rationalizing that the size of Manda II can do as much as a smaller scale Mokuton was able to do. Since it does have more power then a Mokuton.
And please dont bring up Mokuton being even with PS strength, as it doesnt say much of an act of parry.
4
It doesn't matter what was used as Susanoo is much harder then Mokuton. PS can easily slash through Mokuton, but Mokuton scaling can also be use to hold the sword or the arm of Susanoo via parrying. That was my point, that it doesn't take much strength feat like Mokuton to parry it, and especially from Manda II size.
How is it flawed?
1. PS power can rival Buijuu's.
2. Manda II can logically and reasonably man handle/wrestle with a Buijuu.
3. Full intent defeat[
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][
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]. Full intent defeat[
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][
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]4.Snakes power come from its Constriction, which he beat things over their size. Manda II has limbs on top of it.
Lol what.. No extra snakes appearing[
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]. extra snakes appearing[
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][
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]. Same snakes used against Anko[
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]Thats because Snake summons work like Toad summons and other summonings, which words through the amount of chakra used during the summoning determines how powerful the summoned creature can be.
Kishimoto explains this. Example, here is his description on Binding Snake Glare Spell: "Snakes summoned by this technique are on a whole other level in terms of intelligence and strength, compared to normal summons."
Compare to Hidden Snakes "This attack comes in many variations, from biting to constriction. In addition, as those snakes are summoned animals, they are far stronger and more cunning than regular ones, thanks to which they can effectively be employed for capture by entwining around the enemy."
Another example, Is Orochimaru with Senju DNA can produce[
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]It completely debunks your interpretation as the context of the snakes and its feats were separated from the context of talking about Kabuto.
No both Kabuto and the snakes were doing it, as its going by Kabuto's command, like how Summon Snakes function.
Kabuto already shown his personally appearance of skin sloughing[
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].Sasuke was making the assumption that he is as if he was comparing him to Orochimaru[
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].Statement still a contradiction. If he got away, then the snakes Itachi is holding, is not Kabuto.
Yes it is. It debunks your premise of your statement. Thats the evidence that Hidden Snakes can move out of the body, from the summoner.
I am giving you proof. You are trying to make my proof irreverent, to make them invalid. I have backed up the claims that Kabuto controlling Manda II
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will be the same as controlling his Hidden Snakes
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KidGamer65
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I didn't separate them. I used two different words that mean the same thing.
Not even sure what that has to do with the shockwave getting stronger, but of course you don't have the feats for any of your claims.
That was an error. I meant that he needs to evade it, not block it.
I'm not going to say anything on this point. I'm just going to say that you are speculating. I'm not going to join you in your speculation. Its dumb to assume they were out there evading PS slashes when they were all about to die the moment it was used in the first place. Not adding anymore on this point till you stop speculating.
Them avoiding PS slashes isn't fact. Its speculation.
Doesn't say enough.
You need to show
What the hell are you even doing? The Myojinmon Gates are the 10 obvious GATES on the scan. Not the Bijuu Dama tree.
-Hachibi is near the size of the Juubi's head.
-Those Gates are the same size as the Juubi's head.
Bijuu compared to PS are smaller than Bijuu compared to Turtle Island. But size is irrelevant, so I'm not going to continue with this point.
Lol, and I see no feats.
Mokuton Hands aren't the same as a giant snake. Mokuton Hands catching PS blade doesn't mean that Manda II will do the same with its mouth. Sorry pal.
By your logic since Naruto can block a sword by clapping his hands in between it. Ay can do the same with this mouth cause he's stronger....Just stop.
Lol, what? Strength has nothing to do with parrying an attack? Smh....
Irrelevant. Mokuton is NOT Manda II. Mokujin being fast and strong enough to block PS's arm doesn't mean that Manda II will be fast or strong enough to block or evade the attack. Even if I agreed with this "It'll catch it in its mouth or with its hand" bullshit you are spouting, he swings the other blade just like he did against Hashirama, and Manda dies.
PS rivals the Bijuu in destructive power. Not overall power. Don't try and twist this to fit your wanked image of Manda II.
Irrelevant. Manda II is only going to beat a Bijuu in a physical contest. If it uses any form of Bijuu Dama Manda dies in a heartbeat.
Irrelevant. Irrelevant.
Its limbs are pathetically small. Not even worth mentioning.
Not even gonna bother with the rest. Even if Manda II is buffed, you still don't have the feats to say it can tangle with PS, so it dies.
UchihaNagashi
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I'm not fully aware of the feats of this debate nor thread, but I may remember you once stating that Madara's feats for PS can't be used for Sasuke due to the size difference as the biggest factor. A full Kurama was as big as PS, half of it (50& Kurama) is naturally half as big as normal Kurama. The Susano'o of the latest version Sasuke wields is as big as the half, meaning it's half PS size.
Noting how enormous Manda the second is, dwarfing even enormous Bijū like Hachibi, which is the same size as half of Kurama, which then is as big as Sasuke's Susano'o I don't see Manda losing in at least physical contest.
Not to mention it's agility is top notch (snake) and advanced even further.
Noting how enormous Manda the second is, dwarfing even enormous Bijū like Hachibi, which is the same size as half of Kurama, which then is as big as Sasuke's Susano'o I don't see Manda losing in at least physical contest.
Not to mention it's agility is top notch (snake) and advanced even further.
slimreaper
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AlphaScythian
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I give it to Sasuke.
PS grant him extreme range advantage where both white rage or sound genjutsu are ineffective.
Destructive capabilities of PS combined with enton would sure end kabuto.
PS grant him extreme range advantage where both white rage or sound genjutsu are ineffective.
Destructive capabilities of PS combined with enton would sure end kabuto.
Sasuke's V3 Susano'o produced a pretty big shock-wave to cut through a very large portion of the god tree. With intel, the orb is deflected back using a Simple arrow. Distracted, Kabuto is shown to be pinned by arrows, a few Enton arrows would distract and pin his tail again. Non-debatable.
Heat from the Enton would also prevent from the further use of any Inorganic Transmigration as it made the cave revert back to its original state. Enton Sword burns his insides and Magatama would prove to be too much for him. He cannot hide, nor does he have the ability to sense ability-built-ups, he can be forced to use Oral Rebirth - thus wasting a ton of Senjutsu Charka - with Amaterasu easily as well.
Heat also disturbs Pressure Waves nicely, but despite the speculation Sasuke can easily use his eyes to cast Amaterasu on Kabuto again as they were free to use their Doujutsus. V3 can also push the waves back easily. EMS Sasuke wins Mid Difference at the worse. PS or V4 isn't needed.
Heat from the Enton would also prevent from the further use of any Inorganic Transmigration as it made the cave revert back to its original state. Enton Sword burns his insides and Magatama would prove to be too much for him. He cannot hide, nor does he have the ability to sense ability-built-ups, he can be forced to use Oral Rebirth - thus wasting a ton of Senjutsu Charka - with Amaterasu easily as well.
Heat also disturbs Pressure Waves nicely, but despite the speculation Sasuke can easily use his eyes to cast Amaterasu on Kabuto again as they were free to use their Doujutsus. V3 can also push the waves back easily. EMS Sasuke wins Mid Difference at the worse. PS or V4 isn't needed.
slimreaper
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Liquification:
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UchihaNagashi
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The Susano'o armor they coat the with the Bijū, is undoubtedly less dense than normal Susano'o. It could be just a stretched version, unless you honestly believe their density is the same. Look the size of PS. Look at the size of normal Kurama. Regular Kurama dwarfs mountains, yet PS is just about the size of it. And yes, I'm talking about the Madara's one.
Not to mention, Madara never showed a PS just next to Kurama, unless you meant V4. However, the density is still a factor.
Not to mention, Madara never showed a PS just next to Kurama, unless you meant V4. However, the density is still a factor.
What? :|
Madara has absorption techs. Juubi's Jins cancel out Ninjutsu. Inorganic Transmigration used by Kabuto on the cave was on a wide scale. The Heat from such a small area of Amaterasu completely negated NE and reverted the cave back to its original state. Kabuto mentions it quite explicitly.
@UchihaNagashi
Refer to the Inorganic Transmigration part of my post.
@UchihaNagashi: Half of unstabalized PS was the size of 100% Kurama [
I don't understand why some think Sasuke's PS is same sized as Madara's. He could barely cover Bijuu mode. He does not have same supply of Chakra, to produce same sized PS to that of Madara's. Conclusion being, his attacks will have less range as well. So Manda II will defiantly be longer than Sasuke's PS.
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]. So full unstabalized PS would be twice the size of 100% Kurama. With that being said, fully stabilized PS would be little twice bigger than 100% Kurama.I don't understand why some think Sasuke's PS is same sized as Madara's. He could barely cover Bijuu mode. He does not have same supply of Chakra, to produce same sized PS to that of Madara's. Conclusion being, his attacks will have less range as well. So Manda II will defiantly be longer than Sasuke's PS.