(DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

[Sostrange89]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Tobirama grew up in a time of constant war. He was seeing his fellow clansmen and friends die, so he created a jutsu in which he could revive them but the only problem was how cam you recreate life itself? Well its a simple conclusion you cam only gain a life of a life is sacrificed for it. So in a time of war you'll have an army in which cannot be defeated.Sacrifice an enemy's life on exchange to revive an allies. It's a great solution on how to win a war and keep the people you care for in this world even after their time has passed.

My question to you is you're in a war and you just watched your brother die to a man. Later on you capture that same man and you learned about Edo Tensei and for that man's life you can exchange it for your dead brothers. Would you not give up hos life for your brother's?

 

[Anorien16]

^ Like I said; Hyuga clan did this to Hyuga clan. Your example is irrelevant on these grounds alone. What makes you think I don't? This just makes the pro-senju government and even the senju clan who let this practice happen since the time the village was formed, that much more racist and fascist. Who weren't concerned for anyone's well-being but their own political hold. I told you in another thread as well; revolutions have taken place in real world over such a lopsided treatment that pertains to segregation and subjugation. How are you slighting it?

Clearly fanboyism causes blindness......

The fact that NONE of the Hokages did anything to help the Hyuga Branch Family is in fact the evidence of cruelty of the Politics of konoha, not the so called sufferings of Uchiha and thats what I was pointing at.

Senju only worried about political hold? U might notice there was no sign of Senju existing since the second and most probably is extinct in the male line...... and each Senju we know died trying to protect their comrades, if thats not proof enough of their best interests i can not discuss anymore.
Also the Uchiha would not have suffered at all if it wasnt for Madara..... durring Minato's reign there was no freaking problem untill a certain Uchiha used Kurama to attack and destroy the village (Coincidentally it was noticed that the fox was being controlled by a Uchiha) and thus the real problem begun..... cos for as much as we know Hiruzen treated everyone fairly enough . . . . . .
Also revolutions are brought about by common people suffering discrimination etc not some elite bunch with authority and power.

Also I fail to understand, so tell me how much did Uchiha suffered terribly durring Tobirama's rule? Yes they were treated somewhat unfairly but nothing to warrant any overly drastic reaction as some believes, then again that was inspired by Madara's actions, they were kept together (well Akamichi clan, Hyuga clan etc too lives together though not forcefully but none of them have their own millitary force) but no where mistreated. Tobirama segregated them but gave them power in exchange . . . . . nothing much to fuss about untill a certain person starts to cause trouble.

 

[Kiiszame]

its a ninja world. what must be done must be done. if a few have to suffer for their to be peace then so be it. it has happened multiple times already. the only reason people are mad right now is because it has to do with the uchiha

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Hooray! Let's cheer up him now for their pointless union. Konoha is not Senju.

And it's not Uchiha alone either, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

 

[shelke]

Clearly fanboyism causes blindness......

The fact that NONE of the Hokages did anything to help the Hyuga Branch Family is in fact the evidence of cruelty of the Politics of konoha, not the so called sufferings of Uchiha and thats what I was pointing at.

Senju only worried about political hold? U might notice there was no sign of Senju existing since the second and most probably is extinct in the male line...... and each Senju we know died trying to protect their comrades, if thats not proof enough of their best interests i can not discuss anymore.
Also the Uchiha would not have suffered at all if it wasnt for Madara..... durring Minato's reign there was no freaking problem untill a certain Uchiha used Kurama to attack and destroy the village (Coincidentally it was noticed that the fox was being controlled by a Uchiha) and thus the real problem begun..... cos for as much as we know Hiruzen treated everyone fairly enough . . . . . .
Also revolutions are brought about by common people suffering discrimination etc not some elite bunch with authority and power.

Also I fail to understand, so tell me how much did Uchiha suffered terribly durring Tobirama's rule? Yes they were treated somewhat unfairly but nothing to warrant any overly drastic reaction as some believes, then again that was inspired by Madara's actions, they were kept together (well Akamichi clan, Hyuga clan etc too lives together though not forcefully but none of them have their own millitary force) but no where mistreated. Tobirama segregated them but gave them power in exchange . . . . . nothing much to fuss about untill a certain person starts to cause trouble.

Why do you take 'pro-senju' out of the argument here? You misread a lot, it seems. What kind of fanboyism. Your points only back up my stance as well that the government was self-serving. What is so damn hard to believe about this?

Having no share in the way a nation is run translates into 'somewhat of a mistreatment'? Clearly hate blinds you then, if fanboyish has pulled over a hood over my eyes. Funny fellow, who slights segregation. This is clearly a first.

 

[smokesup]

Dr Proof does it again. Don't you guys wish the leaders of our country were more like the ones in Naruto? By that I mean actually having a sense of honor and understanding sacrifice and doing what is best for the group? A president that could shoot fire, transport, or raise the dead would be pretty kick ass too....Can you imagine election time?

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Dr Proof does it again. Don't you guys wish the leaders of our country were more like the ones in Naruto? By that I mean actually having a sense of honor and understanding sacrifice and doing what is best for the group? A president that could shoot fire, transport, or raise the dead would be pretty kick ass too....Can you imagine election time?

Yeah but in the real world the only things politicians Edo Tensei are taxes smh

 

[smokesup]

Yeah but in the real world the only things politicians Edo Tensei are taxes smh

Hahahahahha yes true. If only we could hit taxes with that sword Itachi has, the one he used on Orichimaru...

 

[King Of Sharingan]

Tobirama's kind of a prick, but yea I knew this

 

[taladagah]

Thanks guys.

Exactly my point, the ones who corrupted it made it into a bad look on Tobirama, but they were only doing their job as they are the villains of the story.

He may have done it "wrong" in the view of Madara or Hashirama, however in his own logical mind he was doing the right thing.

I agree but i guess using dead people at all is wrong. it tarnishes there legacy

 

[ninjabot]

Tobirama's creation of the police force looks like repressed discrimination, how would sealing the Sharingan be perceived?

I don't mean "without permission". It would be the result of meetings with the Uchiha clan aswell as volunteers from the clan deciding to take the plunge. Ofcourse if he forced the decision on them it would be disastrous. But if he appealed to their need to sacrifice their emotions to live peaceful lives then I don't see why none would be willing to sacrifice their power. Hell, it might not even require completely getting rid of the Sharingan. Just suppressive powers that act when they're going... maniacal.

He reported that there were in fact those that shared Madara's ideology, they simply concealed it from the public.
Taking away the Uchiha Clan's birthright could easily have been the catalyst for an earlier coup d'état, yes?

Ofcourse there were some who were pro-Madara. I repeat: the decision would have to be run by the leaders of the clan at the time, and there would have to be tests, all kinds of meetings to figure out the correct way to go about it.

Ultimately, Tobirama attempted to channel the Uchihas' powerful emotions into something useful for the village.
Between him and his successor, Tobirama found the better alternative when there was the possibility of rebellion.

Better than Sarutobi, sure. But that doesn't say a whole lot. Yes their powerful emotions were useful, but you'd think he would've been more careful from how he's speaking of the clan. He saw what Madara could do left un-checked. I mean, he says they're cursed. That's not a word to throw around lightly.

If the clan "sealed off" their emotions then there's no reason why they couldn't find the fūinjutsu, themselves.

Unless of course they had'nt the fuuinjutsu specialty of the Senju clan, who are in cahoots with the Uzumaki, who are the go-to guys for sealing techniques.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Tobirama's kind of a prick, but yea I knew this

He does look rather stern doesn't he.

 

[Anorien16]

Why do you take 'pro-senju' out of the argument here? You misread a lot, it seems. What kind of fanboyism. Your points only back up my stance as well that the government was self-serving. What is so damn hard to believe about this?

Having no share in the way a nation is run translates into 'somewhat of a mistreatment'? Clearly hate blinds you then, if fanboyish has pulled over a hood over my eyes. Funny fellow, who slights segregation. This is clearly a first.

Well being handed over the entire justice system of a country equals to having no political power...... also tell me which any other clan had any say on how the nation ran unless they were elected as the Hokage . . . . . Still show me how the Uchiha were inhumanly discriminated compared the any other clans: They were denied food and water- no, They ere not allowed to do anything any other clan cld do- no...... its was a little trust issue probably would have smoothed over in time but had to blown out of proportion by Madara..... and none blame him but rather blame a person who had good intentions but bad methods......

 

[BlackBison]

Well done as usual, but the only thing is you forget to mention key points that pointed everything in the wrong direction. Tobirama, even before his reign as hokage, persecuted the uchiha and even though he had the best of intention this influenced his decisions on how to treat the uchiha. The first proves this statement. The uchiha kicked their leader out because he wanted them to seize the position of hokage by force, since he lost the spot to hashirama. Also, the uchiha supported hashirama so that they can maintain peace. How are the uchiha repaid you might ask. They were made into the police force for the village and this would have been a good thing if tobirama didn't make their hq were a prison used to be. This forced them into the far reaches of konoha away from the rest of the village. In him trying to stop the second coming of madara, he himself started the problem that eventually esculated into the uchiha massacre.

Now about edo tensei no matter what the purpose was intended for the technique, the technique by nature is evil. The main purpose of the technique is to bring back the dead. Now the way the technique works is by taking a life. The cost of a life is another life. Hashirama himself told tobirama he shouldn't have made this jutsu. The manga proves this by the timing of hashirama and the fact that tobirama to him to shut up. Tobirama was practically participating in necromancy and he was opening a door to which their was no return. Luckily, he never completed the jutsu and left it incomplete.

Conclusion, if he didn't persecute the uchiha things would have been different.

 

[xREIBIx]

ALL HAIL NAZIRAMA!! That's freakin' gold.

 

[Sir Blades]

Knew this already.

 

[UrFace234]

can we not worry about whether or not tobirama is at fault here and just enjoy the manga/anime....... if u want to be political here on nb, then why dont u try goin out into the real world because ill tell u right now that it isnt a a pretty picture. thank you and props to dr. proof for another good thread

 

[Meowazziel]

How is edo tensei based on good intentions? It needs A LIVING SACRACFICE.
Unless people want to be sacraficed... >_<

 

[Arcaneos510X]

it's nice to see you are back making these threads again Proof, I did miss them.

 

[robihurstferenc]

You brought up some good points, but i believe that Tobirama DID make a mistake when he marginalized the Uchiha to the edge of the village. They were one of the two founding clans of the Village, just the fact that the Senju were leading the Village without the Uchiha was enough to breed a lot of anger. They thought themselves entitled to have partial ruling of the village, and i cannot blame them for that. It only makes matters worse that the Uchihas inspirational leader: Madara, was given a bad name and cast out of the Village. All these factors brought the tensions to a boiling point, and when Tobirama moved them to a place where the proud co-founders of the Village had to take care of petty criminals, one cannot blame them for despising the Senju. My point is that I believe that Tobirama made the wrong decisions, but had the right intentions at mind. Now, I am no politician, but from experience with studying similar situations to this in real life, I would do one of two things. Either implement a two-party system, in which both the Senju AND the Uchiha are represented in the governing body of the Village equally through a parliament (or coalition) , or implement a pure democracy, where the people of the Village vote on who is to become the next Hokage (out of ALL the ninja in the village not just a Senju or an Uchiha). I understand that both parties cannot be completely content, but if I were Tobirama, I would make those sacrifices, and take away some of my own power for the greater good and peace of my village. Just my take on it