[Discussion] Dragon Ball Super Manga Chapter 29.

[Rikudou Tobi]

Actually Toppo told to Goku "Based on Combat skill alone Jiren is better than Belmond" so who here think that Jiren only surpassed Belmond in Combat skill but not the other area is mistaken. Toppo just talking about one "category" only and not generalizing overall capability of Jiren infont of Belmond. So its safe to says that in Ki level Jiren also is above Belmond.

Wait, I thought that because Toppo talked about one category alone and not generalizing overall means that Belmod is still above him. Because based on combat skills alone, Beerus is stronger than all of the gods of destruction but that doesn't mean his ki is greater than all of them.

 

[Ansatsuken]

Wait, I thought that because Toppo talked about one category alone and not generalizing overall means that Belmod is still above him. Because based on combat skills alone, Beerus is stronger than all of the gods of destruction but that doesn't mean his ki is greater than all of them.

I think Toppo wants to tell Goku on how strong is Jiren and how big the gap between Him and Jiren and between Jiren and Belmond that based on battle skill alone he is stronger than Belmond and Toppo. The key word here is "alone." Means to take one category of "prowess" from overall "prowess" and its indicates if we took and measure overall stats/prowess of Jiren including his battle skill, he is greater than Belmond in many aspects.

Unless Toppo said "Jiren is stronger than Belmond only in Battle power " full stop. So its right to assume that Belmond is better than Jiren in other area. Word "alone" there tells you everyting about Jiren overall "prowess" besides his Battle skill infront of his GOD.

I didnt compare Jiren with Beerus but Jiren with his GOD. And I never say Jiren is stronger than Beerus.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

I think Toppo wants to tell Goku on how strong is Jiren and how big the gap between Him and Jiren and between Jiren and Belmond that based on battle skill alone he is stronger than Belmond and Toppo. The key word here is "alone." Means to take one category of "prowess" from overall "prowess" and its indicates if we took and measure overall stats/prowess of Jiren including his battle skill, he is greater than Belmond in many aspects.

Unless Toppo said "Jiren is stronger than Belmond only in Battle power " full stop. So its right to assume that Belmond is better than Jiren in other area. Word "alone" there tells you everyting about Jiren overall "prowess" besides his Battle skill infront of his GOD.

I didnt compare Jiren with Beerus but Jiren with his GOD. And I never say Jiren is stronger than Beerus.

I don’t think you get what I’m saying entirely. In combat skills Beerus is better than all of the GoDs because his fight instinct (assuming ultra instinct) is semi perfect because he beat Belmode, Chappa, and two other GoDs alone in combat skills.

But when it came to utilizing their ki (or fighting like a god) they were all pretty even being able to catch each other with their power. Even Belmode caught Beerus with his ki (fighting like a god), so how does Jiren beats those who fights like a god (ki) when they are all even in that power?

 

[Ansatsuken]

I don’t think you get what I’m saying entirely. In combat skills Beerus is better than all of the GoDs because his fight instinct (assuming ultra instinct) is semi perfect because he beat Belmode, Chappa, and two other GoDs alone in combat skills.

But when it came to utilizing their ki (or fighting like a god) they were all pretty even being able to catch each other with their power. Even Belmode caught Beerus with his ki (fighting like a god), so how does Jiren beats those who fights like a god (ki) when they are all even in that power?

Combat skill is everything about CQC, projectile throwing, etc. Etc. And I dont see what GODs did is impressive and couldn't be replicate by Jiren. In anime Jiren battle with UI Goku looked more impressive than GODs battle.

Like I said earlier Combat skill is not the only one thing Jiren mastered and better than Balmond but in other aspects too.

Toppo tried to emphasize Jiren true strength is above Belmond by giving an indicator that his Battle power alone is beyond Belmond let alone another aspects of him

And even GOD admitted that battle between Goku.and Toppo (in manga) was on their level and now we talked about Jiren who is above Toppo and Goku.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Combat skill is everything about CQC, projectile throwing, etc. Etc. And I dont see what GODs did is impressive and couldn't be replicate by Jiren. In anime Jiren battle with UI Goku looked more impressive than GODs battle.

Like I said earlier Combat skill is not the only one thing Jiren mastered and better than Balmond but in other aspects too.

Toppo tried to emphasize Jiren true strength is above Belmond by giving an indicator that his Battle power alone is beyond Belmond let alone another aspects of him

And even GOD admitted that battle between Goku.and Toppo (in manga) was on their level and now we talked about Jiren who is above Toppo and Goku.

So basically you're saying Jiren is above Beerus?

Because in terms of Ki (fight like a god) all the other god of destruction are pretty much the same so indirectly you're saying that Jiren is better than Beerus. You're saying on a one on one match that Jiren would beat all of the god of destructions in a match and the only ones that stand a chance against him is the angels, grandpriest, and zeno.

Oh yeah a little side not is that ultra instinct is not entirely more power super saiyan blue, ultra instinct controls your moments to fight instinctively without hesitation or mistakes (something the gods cannot do). The boost of power came from the spirit bomb because he absorbed it, without the spirit bomb's energy super saiyan blue would have more energy (ki) than Ultra instinct.

 

[Ansatsuken]

So basically you're saying Jiren is above Beerus?

Because in terms of Ki (fight like a god) all the other god of destruction are pretty much the same so indirectly you're saying that Jiren is better than Beerus. You're saying on a one on one match that Jiren would beat all of the god of destructions in a match and the only ones that stand a chance against him is the angels, grandpriest, and zeno.

Oh yeah a little side not is that ultra instinct is not entirely more power super saiyan blue, ultra instinct controls your moments to fight instinctively without hesitation or mistakes (something the gods cannot do). The boost of power came from the spirit bomb because he absorbed it, without the spirit bomb's energy super saiyan blue would have more energy (ki) than Ultra instinct.

You can twist anything to fit yur own narrative but who you want to lie here when Manga clearly indicates the "situation". I go with what manga said;

1) "In battle power alone Jiren is stronger than Belmond" where he(Toppo) trying to tell us how strong is Jiren's overall "power" that his Battle skill alone is stronger than Belmond, not yet talking about Jiren's other "power"

2) The GODs say "Their battle is on par with us GOD" refers to the battle between SSG Goku and God Ki Toppo(Manga)

So here you're fighting with manga facts, you're fighting to disagree with manga facts and not with me.

Whether Jiren is stronger than Beerus or not is yet to known as not all GOD is equally strong. They only fight on the level of GOD but that doesnt mean they are on par with each others. SSG Goku also is in the "realm" of God so is Toppo. But clearly Toppo is better than Goku here. But Jiren is better than both God level characters. Beerus is better and stronger than most of GOD except Quitella. So they are never equal even as a GOD. They are "equal" bcus they have and used God Ki.

I learned to "accept" so we all need to learn "to accept". :sdo:

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

You can twist anything to fit yur own narrative but who you want to lie here when Manga clearly indicates the "situation". I go with what manga said;

1) "In battle power alone Jiren is stronger than Belmond" where he(Toppo) trying to tell us how strong is Jiren's overall "power" that his Battle skill alone is stronger than Belmond, not yet talking about Jiren's other "power"

2) The GODs say "Their battle is on par with us GOD" refers to the battle between SSG Goku and God Ki Toppo(Manga)

So here you're fighting with manga facts, you're fighting to disagree with manga facts and not with me.

Whether Jiren is stronger than Beerus or not is yet to known as not all GOD is equally strong. They only fight on the level of GOD but that doesnt mean they are on par with each others. SSG Goku also is in the "realm" of God so is Toppo. But clearly Toppo is better than Goku here. But Jiren is better than both God level characters. Beerus is better and stronger than most of GOD except Quitella. So they are never equal even as a GOD. They are "equal" bcus they have and used God Ki.

I learned to "accept" so we all need to learn "to accept". :sdo:

I asked a question and I didn't twist any words. Toppo said that in terms of combat skills alone Jiren is higher than Belmod. He didn't make any implication to everything else but what you can't do is speculate that fighting with your limbs is the same as fighting with your ki.
I thought you would know this after Trunks was beating up immortal body Zamasu. He told him that even though he would lose to him in combat, he can still fight him as a God. Another example would be the All king Zeno, he has the most ki out of every individual in the universe but his combat skills are so horrible that Goku is better than him. So combat skills≠Ki it's been that way for a while ever since goku vs vegeta.

I just wanted you to answer the question if you thought Jiren is stronger than Beerus, that's all.:tea:

 

[Ansatsuken]

I asked a question and I didn't twist any words. Toppo said that in terms of combat skills alone Jiren is higher than Belmod. He didn't make any implication to everything else but what you can't do is speculate that fighting with your limbs is the same as fighting with your ki.
I thought you would know this after Trunks was beating up immortal body Zamasu. He told him that even though he would lose to him in combat, he can still fight him as a God. Another example would be the All king Zeno, he has the most ki out of every individual in the universe but his combat skills are so horrible that Goku is better than him. So combat skills≠Ki it's been that way for a while ever since goku vs vegeta.

I just wanted you to answer the question if you thought Jiren is stronger than Beerus, that's all.:tea:

Jiren only stronger than Belmond but Beerus is questionable. But scale Beerus to Belmond plus his coward sneaky act it safe to say Balmond knows Beerus is "better" than him. Two chapters already proving Beerus level amongst GOD.

As for Jiren to Beerus although at first I said it questionable but I tries assuming that Beerus is 1 time above Jiren in every aspects.


Time will tell

By the way Jiren FTW :axedance:

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Jiren only stronger than Belmond but Beerus is questionable. But scale Beerus to Belmond plus his coward sneaky act it safe to say Balmond knows Beerus is "better" than him. Two chapters already proving Beerus level amongst GOD.

As for Jiren to Beerus although at first I said it questionable but I tries assuming that Beerus is 1 time above Jiren in every aspects.


Time will tell

By the way Jiren FTW :axedance:

You know there's like 3 other mortal stronger than the 11th universe right? Do you think they're stronger than the angels since those other mortals are above Jiren?

 

[Ansatsuken]

You know there's like 3 other mortal stronger than the 11th universe right? Do you think they're stronger than the angels since those other mortals are above Jiren?

Emm, I think at best they should be above Beerus but lower than Vegito blue and Angles.

 

[Ansatsuken]

You know there's like 3 other mortal stronger than the 11th universe right? Do you think they're stronger than the angels since those other mortals are above Jiren?

Emm, I think at best they should be above Beerus but lower than Vegito blue and Angles.

 

[Hiko]

You know there's like 3 other mortal stronger than the 11th universe right? Do you think they're stronger than the angels since those other mortals are above Jiren?

which mortals are these? as far as im aware only jiren has been stated to be stronger than a GoD

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

which mortals are these? as far as im aware only jiren has been stated to be stronger than a GoD

In the anime it's universe 1, 5, 8, and 12 that holds mortals stronger than Jiren so they weren't allowed to participate. As far as anime goes, Jiren is stated to be as strong as a god of destruction. Whis said they're is a possibility that he might be stronger than a GoD.

As far as manga goes Jiren surpasses Belmod in combat skills, obviously for people like Beerus or the rat he would lose. In terms of other god skills Jiren did not surpass.

 

[Hiko]

In the anime it's universe 1, 5, 8, and 12 that holds mortals stronger than Jiren so they weren't allowed to participate. As far as anime goes, Jiren is stated to be as strong as a god of destruction. Whis said they're is a possibility that he might be stronger than a GoD.

As far as manga goes Jiren surpasses Belmod in combat skills, obviously for people like Beerus or the rat he would lose. In terms of other god skills Jiren did not surpass.

This was never stated that they were stronger they simply had a highet mortal level which seems to indicate the level of intelligent life in there universe thus mraning the gods are doung there jobs right.. none of them were stated to have stronger beings... not saying they dont however but is has not been stated

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

This was never stated that they were stronger they simply had a highet mortal level which seems to indicate the level of intelligent life in there universe thus mraning the gods are doung there jobs right.. none of them were stated to have stronger beings... not saying they dont however but is has not been stated

The bold part was never stated at all and the anime did say that the mortals in those universe were way stronger therefore exempting them from the tournament.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

The bold part was never stated at all and the anime did say that the mortals in those universe were way stronger therefore exempting them from the tournament.

And yet U10 had nothing but fodders even though it has a higher mortal ranking than U4, 6, 7, and 9... It should be beyond obvious at this point that mortal level has nothing to do with strength. Beerus even said that Goku was bringing their mortal level down with his stupidity, and then Goku responded that Gohan was bringing their mortal level back up. How would this statement make any sense if mortal level is based on strength considering that Goku is not only stronger than Gohan, but also the strongest mortal in U7?

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

And yet U10 had nothing but fodders even though it has a higher mortal ranking than U4, 6, 7, and 9... It should be beyond obvious at this point that mortal level has nothing to do with strength. Beerus even said that Goku was bringing their mortal level down with his stupidity, and then Goku responded that Gohan was bringing their mortal level back up. How would this statement make any sense if mortal level is based on strength considering that Goku is not only stronger than Gohan, but also the strongest mortal in U7?

Honestly don’t know where you’re getting this dumb shit from, but spar the idiocy for the onepiece and don’t bring this dumb shit over here. Because I didn’t see this claim anywhere.
Like tf does intellect have to do with mortal level? Stfu

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Honestly don’t know where you’re getting this dumb shit from, but spar the idiocy for the onepiece and don’t bring this dumb shit over here. Because I didn’t see this claim anywhere.
Like tf does intellect have to do with mortal level? Stfu

Hey genius, if mortal level correlates to strength then please explain why U7 has been dominating everyone else besides U11 in this tournament. Why don't you actually use some critical thinking for one?

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Hey genius, if mortal level correlates to strength then please explain why U7 has been dominating everyone else besides U11 in this tournament. Why don't you actually use some critical thinking for one?

Hey genius, U11 is the one getting dominated because 7 of there members are out. Universe 7 are doing better than any other universe yet goku (their strongest member) is as dumb as you are.

Like seriously stfu and leave me alone on this section. I already deal with you and those other 3 idiots in the Op section, I seriously don't want you bothering me on this one.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Hey genius, U11 is the one getting dominated because 7 of there members are out. Universe 7 are doing better than any other universe yet goku (their strongest member) is as dumb as you are.

Like seriously stfu and leave me alone on this section. I already deal with you and those other 3 idiots in the Op section, I seriously don't want you bothering me on this one.

Good job at completely ignoring the main point in my post. Can't admit when you're wrong, so you try to change the subject.

And btw I said that they're dominating everyone but U11 simply because U11 has Jiren. But of course you couldn't realize the obvious.