[VS] Donquixote Family vs Rev's

[Akuma]

Luffy one shot a Pacifista fam

You're comparing the durability/strength of a Pacifista and the real Kuma ? >.>

come on

 

[Punk Hazard]

You're comparing the durability/strength of a Pacifista and the real Kuma ? >.>

come on

Nothing indicates either is different. Both are the same modifications. Only difference between Kuma and a Pacifista is the paws.

 

[Akuma]

Nothing indicates either is different. Both are the same modifications. Only difference between Kuma and a Pacifista is the paws.

Wth, how about human and metal wires fir a diference.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Wth, how about human and metal wires fir a diference.

Pacifista are modified humans too bruh

 

[shivjee]

even without dragon rev takes this

 

[chopstickchakra]

Without Dragon, Donquixote Family wins. I doubt Kuma, who has the durability of something Luffy can one-shot in Gear 2, can withstand Doffy's attacks. Sabo would give trouble, and Ivankov would be negged by Pica tbh. I honestly see him just burying Ivankov, who lacks the abilities in his arsenal to actually defend or evade that.

@bold what is this something you are referring to? The Pacifista? I don't believe it was ever stated anywhere Kuma had the durability of a Pacifista or a Pacifista having the durability of Kuma.

In regards to Ivan vs Pica, it's a good thing Sabo would be there then since that means Ivan doesn't have to fight Pica. Sabo has shown with Dragon Claw that he can destroy earth fairly easily, even if Pica made that super mountain size Golem he made against Zoro Sabo would be able to break it apart in large chunks if not all at once.

 

[ZoroXTashigi]

In my book...
Kuma~Iva~Sabo~Doffy .. are roughly on same level ... so the revo win mid-high diff.

 

[kageking]

The revolutionary army wouldn't even need all their strongest.

 

[YellowFang]

Revs win even without Dragon...

Sabo can literally one-shot many of the low ranking members...
Kuma can take out all of the special abilites group with his Urusus Shock...

 

[ToshiZO]

Nothing indicates either is different. Both are the same modifications. Only difference between Kuma and a Pacifista is the paws.

Is that why Ivankov could hardly dent the real Kuma?

 

[Main I]

Donquixote family wins, mid-diff overall. As far as I'm concerned, Doffy > Sabo seeing as Sabo has showcased nothing that would tangibly put him above Doffy so he takes that one high to a possible extreme. Vergo, Monet, Diamanté, Trebol, and Sugar defeat Kuma with a blend of HAX and pure battle prowess. Pica, Lao G, Machvise, Dillinger, and Baby 5 defeat Ivankov handily, Imo. Not to mention that either team may receive help from Doffy after Sabo.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Is that why Ivankov could hardly dent the real Kuma?

Did he dent a Pacifista?

@bold what is this something you are referring to? The Pacifista? I don't believe it was ever stated anywhere Kuma had the durability of a Pacifista or a Pacifista having the durability of Kuma.

In regards to Ivan vs Pica, it's a good thing Sabo would be there then since that means Ivan doesn't have to fight Pica. Sabo has shown with Dragon Claw that he can destroy earth fairly easily, even if Pica made that super mountain size Golem he made against Zoro Sabo would be able to break it apart in large chunks if not all at once.

Kuma and a Pacifista have the same modifications. That alone is enough to assert that the durability is the same. Confirmation that they're the same isn't needed, confirmation that they're different is.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Did he dent a Pacifista?


Kuma and a Pacifista have the same modifications. That alone is enough to assert that the durability is the same. Confirmation that they're the same isn't needed, confirmation that they're different is.

Not when the claim being made is they're the same, the evidence needs to support the claim always. Just because a Pacifista is a modified human doesn't mean that human was equal to Kuma to start with. You're automatically accrediting a random corpse with a Shichibukai's level of durability and claim no evidence is needed to support such a claim?

The majority of the Pacifista's durability is the mechanics and the steel shown by Zoro not being able to cut it. Also Pacifista have no sense of pain so durability isn't measured the same as a person's durability who has a pain threshold(the op said Kuma was in control so this is prior to being full Pacifista) Just because something has the same modifications doesn't always mean it will be equal if the starting points are different, if a 10lb fram and a 20lb frame are given the same engine modification the lighter one will go faster and the heavier one has a chance of taking less damage being sturdier for example.

Also in regards to some other posts, I'm pretty sure Hell Wink or Galaxy Wink is enough to break Pica, it broke them out of the stone walls of Imple Down(Granted he did it by throwing his body into the stone the point is he can break stone with it) and even if he can't Sabo could break the stone and Ivan could finish Pica. That giant Golem isn't gonna keep him safe from many of the new characters.

 

[WhistleBlower]

Tbh, i only see the revolutionaries winning in the secound sceanrio. Dragon takes on doffy. Whilst the others take on the executives.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Not when the claim being made is they're the same, the evidence needs to support the claim always. Just because a Pacifista is a modified human doesn't mean that human was equal to Kuma to start with. You're automatically accrediting a random corpse with a Shichibukai's level of durability and claim no evidence is needed to support such a claim?

The majority of the Pacifista's durability is the mechanics and the steel shown by Zoro not being able to cut it. Also Pacifista have no sense of pain so durability isn't measured the same as a person's durability who has a pain threshold(the op said Kuma was in control so this is prior to being full Pacifista) Just because something has the same modifications doesn't always mean it will be equal if the starting points are different, if a 10lb fram and a 20lb frame are given the same engine modification the lighter one will go faster and the heavier one has a chance of taking less damage being sturdier for example.

Also in regards to some other posts, I'm pretty sure Hell Wink or Galaxy Wink is enough to break Pica, it broke them out of the stone walls of Imple Down(Granted he did it by throwing his body into the stone the point is he can break stone with it) and even if he can't Sabo could break the stone and Ivan could finish Pica. That giant Golem isn't gonna keep him safe from many of the new characters.

The proof of my claim is that Kuma stated he is a Pacifista, meaning he has the same modifications and material they do. It's up to you to prove Kuma's modifications are in any way superior to the others.

 

[MickNerks]

The proof of my claim is that Kuma stated he is a Pacifista, meaning he has the same modifications and material they do. It's up to you to prove Kuma's modifications are in any way superior to the others.

Well, If this conversation is still about whether Kuma could survive an attack from Gear 2 Luffy, then it has already been shown that he can not only withstand a direct G2 Jet Pistol without being phased or injured and any way, but we also have been shown that Kuma is faster and can react faster than a Gear 2 luffy.

No one from dressrosa is any where near as fast as Gear 2 luffy except Doflamingo who traded blows with him. Kuma just reflected everything. If Kuma was able to effortlessly react to a Gear 2 luffy, then he definitely can react to Doffy.

 

[chopstickchakra]

The proof of my claim is that Kuma stated he is a Pacifista, meaning he has the same modifications and material they do. It's up to you to prove Kuma's modifications are in any way superior to the others.

The OP said Kuma is in control which means it's prior to being a Pacifista which means your argument is invalid. The discussion was considering Kuma's human durability which isn't the same as the Pacifista machines. The Pacifista were made from regular humans reinforced with strong metal while Kuma was a human with a strong body to start with. Again just because you have the same modifications doesn't always mean you're going to get the same results either. And check out micknerks with the evidence of Kuma being more durable than the pacifista

 

[-Akuma-]

Revs win.

 

[Venomous Cobra]

revolutionary army, no one in the family is strong enough to touch sabo or ivan (portrayal wise and feats as well, mallegan couldn't even scratch ivankove, while in the war, ivan was one of the few who walked out without any injuries, not even minor ones)except for doffy

Having all this, doffy can simply not beat the two of them plus kuma, I find it funny how people give characters like mihawk, fujitoura, supernova and even marco the benefit of doubt but then when a character with some gag is mentioned, feats are brought up.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Well, If this conversation is still about whether Kuma could survive an attack from Gear 2 Luffy, then it has already been shown that he can not only withstand a direct G2 Jet Pistol without being phased or injured and any way, but we also have been shown that Kuma is faster and can react faster than a Gear 2 luffy.

No one from dressrosa is any where near as fast as Gear 2 luffy except Doflamingo who traded blows with him. Kuma just reflected everything. If Kuma was able to effortlessly react to a Gear 2 luffy, then he definitely can react to Doffy.

We've seen Kuma's mechanics withstand a pre-skip Luffy's Jet Pistol. A post-skip Jet Pistol with the invisible variant of Haki destroyed the entire mechanical structure of a Pacifista via a blow to the head. The mechanical structure of a Pacifista, at least the model we have seen so far of which Kuma is the same, cannot withstand a blow from current Luffy while he is using Gear 2. Compare that to Gladius, who took a Jet Stamp to the gut and was fine.

Kuma reacted to a pre-skip Luffy, who is exponentially weaker and slower than Doflamingo. Kuma reacting to and countering pre-skip Luffy does not mean he can counter Doflamingo.

The OP said Kuma is in control which means it's prior to being a Pacifista which means your argument is invalid. The discussion was considering Kuma's human durability which isn't the same as the Pacifista machines. The Pacifista were made from regular humans reinforced with strong metal while Kuma was a human with a strong body to start with. Again just because you have the same modifications doesn't always mean you're going to get the same results either. And check out micknerks with the evidence of Kuma being more durable than the pacifista

Kuma called himself a Pacifista while in control. Prior to Marineford, Kuma wasn't a complete Pacifista only because he retained his consciousness. Every other modification was complete, meaning his mechanical structure was the same as the other Pacifistas at the time he was in control.

You have no idea that ordinary people were used, or that none of the Pacifista didn't have bodies like Kuma's. You also have no idea how strong Kuma's body was prior to the modifications to say that he was special or abnormally more durable in comparison to the others who were made into Pacifista. Even if Kuma's body was stronger, the mechanics are still the same. The mechanics are what Luffy broke and what exploded. Even though Kuma's body may be level 50 while the others were level 30, the mechanics are still the same level because they are the same modifications; a level not strong enough to withstand a simple Jet Pistol from Luffy with the invisible Haki equipped.