[Discussion] Doflamingo vs Mihawk

VongolaX · Feb 4, 2014

Not really fair, since doflamingo is not admiral/Yonkou level.

While Mihawk rivals a yonkou and he try to test his strength against Whitebeard too.

Besides, Mihawk rules a kingdom full of blood-thirsty apes

Netferarri · Feb 4, 2014

Mihawk takes this, he's waaaay to much for Doffy.

Hijey · Feb 4, 2014

ToshiZO said:
Mihawk high diff, I doubt he can mid diff Doflamingo when he fought Vista to a stalemate.

What difficulty would Rayleigh/Kizaru etc have with the likes of Doflamingo?

zamki · Feb 4, 2014

Mihawk is just too much for Doflamingo .

ToshiZO · Feb 4, 2014

Hijey said:
What difficulty would Rayleigh/Kizaru etc have with the likes of Doflamingo?

Rayleigh imo mid- high
Kizaru mid to mid-high. I dont want to bring them up though because Im still waiting on Doflamingo to show what he's worth im just basing this off of his interactions and a few casual feats. Mihawks feats right now dont allow him to mid diff doflamingo, but based off his hype he beats him, therefore I say high diff.

Hijey · Feb 5, 2014

ToshiZO said:
Rayleigh imo mid- high
Kizaru mid to mid-high. I dont want to bring them up though because Im still waiting on Doflamingo to show what he's worth im just basing this off of his interactions and a few casual feats. Mihawks feats right now dont allow him to mid diff doflamingo, but based off his hype he beats him, therefore I say high diff.

Well, if you think it'll take Mihawk high difficulty then naturally it would require higher than that for Rayleigh since he is afterall weaker. Kizaru was portrayed to be as strong as Rayleigh but perhaps being a logia would allow him to have an easier time than Rayleigh. For example, Shanks feats doesn't allow him to beat Doflamingo with mid difficulty either but we can resonably deduce it shouldn't take him more than mid difficulty. You put Kizaru above Aokiji for whatever reason and the latter is almost as strong strong as Akainu. Akainu was able to fodderize people on Law's level whenever he turned his attention towards them while Doflamingo couldn't do that to an exhausted and tired Law as well as getting injured in the progress. Their fight was a low difficulty or so, therefore healthy Law would put up mid difficulty or so. Pre timeskip Doflamingo gave the vibe he'd put up mid diff at best vs the big boys like Vista since I thought the two were more or less on par, but that's changed to low difficulty given how he faired against Law. I think it would make sense for Luffy to be stronger than Law and as a result be able to push Doflamingo to high difficulty but get a win due to plot(or Luffy trades punches with Doflamingo for a long time until Law wakes up and finishes off a distracted Doflamingo). DD can be stronger but he has to be on their level since this is his arc. How do you see Doflamingo going down?

ToshiZO · Feb 5, 2014

Hijey said:
Well, if you think it'll take Mihawk high difficulty then naturally it would require higher than that for Rayleigh since he is afterall weaker. Kizaru was portrayed to be as strong as Rayleigh but perhaps being a logia would allow him to have an easier time than Rayleigh. For example, Shanks feats doesn't allow him to beat Doflamingo with mid difficulty either but we can resonably deduce it shouldn't take him more than mid difficulty. You put Kizaru above Aokiji for whatever reason and the latter is almost as strong strong as Akainu. Akainu was able to fodderize people on Law's level whenever he turned his attention towards them while Doflamingo couldn't do that to an exhausted and tired Law as well as getting injured in the progress. Their fight was a low difficulty or so, therefore healthy Law would put up mid difficulty or so. Pre timeskip Doflamingo gave the vibe he'd put up mid diff at best vs the big boys like Vista since I thought the two were more or less on par, but that's changed to low difficulty given how he faired against Law. I think it would make sense for Luffy to be stronger than Law and as a result be able to push Doflamingo to high difficulty but get a win due to plot(or Luffy trades punches with Doflamingo for a long time until Law wakes up and finishes off a distracted Doflamingo). DD can be stronger but he has to be on their level since this is his arc. How do you see Doflamingo going down?

Well imo pre skip Rayleigh showed that he was above Mihawk by stalemating Kizaru, not sure how Mihawk would fare in that situation since he was stalemating Vista during the war. I don't consider Vista to be much of a threat to Doflamingo, I put Vista around Ace's level. Also Kizaru in that brief scuffle with Rayleigh showed that he was above Rayleigh, since Rayleigh was really sweating and panting in that fight it showed he couldn't keep up in a long drawn out battle. I hope Mihawk is stronger than Rayleigh and he shows us something post skip to back this up, I would like to say that Mihawk and Rayleigh have an extreme diff fight, but that is solely due to his hype and not the feats he's given up. Shanks is a different case, unlike Mihawk he has no feats to contradict his hype. Mihawk during the war had a few feats that made you question him. He measured the distance between him and WB, and got stopped by 3rd commander Jozu indicating he is not able to reach WB (imo this was a portrayal feat). He stalemated 5th division commander Vista. Got stopped by Crocodile. The difference between Shanks and Mihawk is that those characters (Vista, Croc, Jozu) aren't worth Shanks' time, Shanks directly clashes with the captain. So yea Mihawk has feats that contradict his hype, while Shanks doesn't. With that said I give Mihawk the benefit of the doubt and say he was not trying one bit against Vista and the rest (except for the slash intended for WB) and because of this I would say Mihawk can give an Admiral a high diff fight.

Now about DD, DD stomped/low diffd Smoker, Sanji, and Law. These guys are all in the general level of Luffy. DD has been toying with VA calibre people (and IIRC he has toyed with VA's before), and he has people as strong as Vergo, Diamante, Pica under him who are again in the general level of the M3. Going by the traditional main villain scheme this should tell us just how strong DD is, Croc and his underlings, Moriah and his underlings, Enel and his underlings, all of these guys were seperated by a major gap between themselves and their strongest subordinate. Imo Vergo is DD's strongest subordinate and this guy himself his capable of beating the daylights of another fellow VA and power wise he is easily viable for the Shichibukai title. To top it off DD had an encounter with Kuzan which told me he can put up atleast a mid diff fight. And he wasn't scared of Fujitora who was directly threatening him that he'd take him down. About the whole Kaidou deal, this isn't one individual we're talking about. 1.We are talking about a Yonko crew 2.We are talking about DD's business partner. What I'm trying to say is that there is more to DD's expression than fearing Kaidous strength alone, it could mean he obviously can't handle a whole Yonkou crew and/or it could mean that his whole underground business (which he built up) and his biggest partner is in jeopardy

Avinash012 · Feb 5, 2014

Ahmed1993 said:
Mihawk said that he isn't interested in fighting a one armed man.

Ur point here?

One armed Shanks when he was in no shape to fight ready to face Mihawk in the same chapter. can I say that Shanks >>>Mihawk because Shanks is ready to fight Mihawk despite of his condition at that time?

Hijey · Feb 6, 2014

ToshiZO said:
Well imo pre skip Rayleigh showed that he was above Mihawk by stalemating Kizaru, not sure how Mihawk would fare in that situation since he was stalemating Vista during the war. I don't consider Vista to be much of a threat to Doflamingo, I put Vista around Ace's level. Also Kizaru in that brief scuffle with Rayleigh showed that he was above Rayleigh, since Rayleigh was really sweating and panting in that fight it showed he couldn't keep up in a long drawn out battle. I hope Mihawk is stronger than Rayleigh and he shows us something post skip to back this up, I would like to say that Mihawk and Rayleigh have an extreme diff fight, but that is solely due to his hype and not the feats he's given up. Shanks is a different case, unlike Mihawk he has no feats to contradict his hype. Mihawk during the war had a few feats that made you question him. He measured the distance between him and WB, and got stopped by 3rd commander Jozu indicating he is not able to reach WB (imo this was a portrayal feat). He stalemated 5th division commander Vista. Got stopped by Crocodile. The difference between Shanks and Mihawk is that those characters (Vista, Croc, Jozu) aren't worth Shanks' time, Shanks directly clashes with the captain. So yea Mihawk has feats that contradict his hype, while Shanks doesn't. With that said I give Mihawk the benefit of the doubt and say he was not trying one bit against Vista and the rest (except for the slash intended for WB) and because of this I would say Mihawk can give an Admiral a high diff fight.

Now about DD, DD stomped/low diffd Smoker, Sanji, and Law. These guys are all in the general level of Luffy. DD has been toying with VA calibre people (and IIRC he has toyed with VA's before), and he has people as strong as Vergo, Diamante, Pica under him who are again in the general level of the M3. Going by the traditional main villain scheme this should tell us just how strong DD is, Croc and his underlings, Moriah and his underlings, Enel and his underlings, all of these guys were seperated by a major gap between themselves and their strongest subordinate. Imo Vergo is DD's strongest subordinate and this guy himself his capable of beating the daylights of another fellow VA and power wise he is easily viable for the Shichibukai title. To top it off DD had an encounter with Kuzan which told me he can put up atleast a mid diff fight. And he wasn't scared of Fujitora who was directly threatening him that he'd take him down. About the whole Kaidou deal, this isn't one individual we're talking about. 1.We are talking about a Yonko crew 2.We are talking about DD's business partner. What I'm trying to say is that there is more to DD's expression than fearing Kaidous strength alone, it could mean he obviously can't handle a whole Yonkou crew and/or it could mean that his whole underground business (which he built up) and his biggest partner is in jeopardy

He doesn't have to prove himself by fighting an Admiral in order for us to know he is stronger than Rayleigh. Author stated he is the strongest swordsman and Rayleigh has shown to be a swordsman with no devil fruit. Vista is more than threat to Doflamingo and above by Ace by good amount based on feat and potrayal. He was able to evenly fight Mihawk on/off panel for some time and Mihawk had to ask him to postpone their duel. This portrayal and feat is similar to that of Jozu's who performed just as good against Aokiji and Oda used a distraction for Aokiji to win as fast as he did. This tells us that while Jozu and Vista don't have as much hype as well as being significantly weaker than Aokiji and Mihawk, they can put up a fight against them putting them on the same general level as those guys. Rayleigh may have been panting, but he injured Kizaru as soon as their fight began. Could he have beaten Kizaru before his stamina ran out? Maybe, maybe not. Their fight should be close either way. First of all, there is no portrayal regarding Mihawk not being able to reach Whitebeard because that doesn't make sense. Kizaru got his attack stopped by Marco on the next page but he was later able to reach Whitebeard. Secondly, the point of Mihawk and Kizaru being stopped was to show us that they wouldn't be getting to WB unless they got through Marco and Jozu as well as hyping those two. Crocodile is a fellow Warlord like Mihawk and we know for a fact he doesn't have the strength to stall Mihawk for more than a second. Therefore, the only logical conclusion we can arrive at without any bias is that Mihawk chose not to slaughter for Crocodile for whatever reason(for example out of respect etc). I'm sure you were one of the people who say Admirals = Emperor which I agree with so both you and I
know that Jozu is more than worth Shanks' time because he was worth Aokiji's time. You also have to take into consideration that Shanks came with the intent not to fight WB and Co which made WB order his men to leave them alone. Also, he is the Captain like Whitebeard and we should be familiar with the Captain always being paired with the Captain in One Piece. Mihawk not trying against Vista doesn't make sense to me. Like how Whitebeard had faith Jozu could occupy Aokiji, Marco trusted Vista could do the same with Mihawk even though being aware he's weaker than him. Vista is the strongest swordsman on Whitebeard's ship, Mihawk himself said he would be fool if he didn't hear of his name and we know Mihawk doesn't turn down an invitation to a duel. If Mihawk wasn't trying one bit against Vista at the war then he wouldn't be willing to fight him later since he'd get one or two hit like Ace since you put him there. Mihawk can almost assuredly give any Admiral/Emperor an extreme difficulty fight and beat them like the other way around because of equal hype and more relevant to the story than some. For example, Luffy wants to surpass Shanks and from plot wise, it wouldn't make sense that Shanks is just a top tier but that he resides at the pinnacle. Furthermore, Luffy will be having an extreme difficulty against Blackbeard due to being the biggest obstacle for the title of PK which is Luffy's dream. Likewise, it should stand to reason that the same would apply for someone like Mihawk.

If you genuinely think Doflamingo can give an Admiral atleast mid difficulty then that places him at top tier. He's aware he wouldn't underestimate the Strawhat so when Luffy arrives at the palace, he would probably beat him until he reaches similar condition as Law and keep him alive to 'trade' him for CC since the Captain. All of Luffy's arc enemies have been on his general level except for Moria which Luffy could beat thanks to a one time power up. Furthermore, the future main arc villains will be having atleast one guy under them who is on their level which is why I think it would make sense that the same applies for Doflamingo who is a NW pirate veteran. He's the first real threat the Strawhat has faced and we're already on the third arc without seeing them go all out for a victory. The Doflamingo/Law fight suggested the latter could give Doflamingo atleast mid difficulty if he was at full health which again, in my opinion, means they're on the same general level. Oda also portrayed DD in a negative way when he was casually frozen by Aokiji which to me implied Aokiji was out of his league, like how he is to Luffy and Co. Remember, Doflamingo has deep connections and time on his side. As long as he's a Warlord, Fujitora will not be able to touch him. I don't know what Fujitora is smoking to have such an ambition, but Akainu shouldn't be that dumb to give up such a strong force now of all times when their HQ is located in the NW. I would have agreed with you about the Kaido deal before but seeing all of the things that happened so far, I'm thinking it's got to do with Doflamingo being aware of how much stronger Kaido is than him. Before we found out Doflamingo's arc was coming up, my opinion of his strength was that he was bottom of the top tiers based on gut feeling and being defeated by Luffy would tell us the latter has reached top tier status but now at best him pushing Admirals etc to low difficulty at best is what I'm leaning towards. Luffy gets stomped by them so should mean Luffy can push DD to high difficulty and loses but wins if plot is by his side.

ToshiZO · Feb 6, 2014

Hijey said:
He doesn't have to prove himself by fighting an Admiral in order for us to know he is stronger than Rayleigh. Author stated he is the strongest swordsman and Rayleigh has shown to be a swordsman with no devil fruit. Vista is more than threat to Doflamingo and above by Ace by good amount based on feat and potrayal. He was able to evenly fight Mihawk on/off panel for some time and Mihawk had to ask him to postpone their duel. This portrayal and feat is similar to that of Jozu's who performed just as good against Aokiji and Oda used a distraction for Aokiji to win as fast as he did. This tells us that while Jozu and Vista don't have as much hype as well as being significantly weaker than Aokiji and Mihawk, they can put up a fight against them putting them on the same general level as those guys. Rayleigh may have been panting, but he injured Kizaru as soon as their fight began. Could he have beaten Kizaru before his stamina ran out? Maybe, maybe not. Their fight should be close either way. First of all, there is no portrayal regarding Mihawk not being able to reach Whitebeard because that doesn't make sense. Kizaru got his attack stopped by Marco on the next page but he was later able to reach Whitebeard. Secondly, the point of Mihawk and Kizaru being stopped was to show us that they wouldn't be getting to WB unless they got through Marco and Jozu as well as hyping those two. Crocodile is a fellow Warlord like Mihawk and we know for a fact he doesn't have the strength to stall Mihawk for more than a second. Therefore, the only logical conclusion we can arrive at without any bias is that Mihawk chose not to slaughter for Crocodile for whatever reason(for example out of respect etc). I'm sure you were one of the people who say Admirals = Emperor which I agree with so both you and I
know that Jozu is more than worth Shanks' time because he was worth Aokiji's time. You also have to take into consideration that Shanks came with the intent not to fight WB and Co which made WB order his men to leave them alone. Also, he is the Captain like Whitebeard and we should be familiar with the Captain always being paired with the Captain in One Piece. Mihawk not trying against Vista doesn't make sense to me. Like how Whitebeard had faith Jozu could occupy Aokiji, Marco trusted Vista could do the same with Mihawk even though being aware he's weaker than him. Vista is the strongest swordsman on Whitebeard's ship, Mihawk himself said he would be fool if he didn't hear of his name and we know Mihawk doesn't turn down an invitation to a duel. If Mihawk wasn't trying one bit against Vista at the war then he wouldn't be willing to fight him later since he'd get one or two hit like Ace since you put him there. Mihawk can almost assuredly give any Admiral/Emperor an extreme difficulty fight and beat them like the other way around because of equal hype and more relevant to the story than some. For example, Luffy wants to surpass Shanks and from plot wise, it wouldn't make sense that Shanks is just a top tier but that he resides at the pinnacle. Furthermore, Luffy will be having an extreme difficulty against Blackbeard due to being the biggest obstacle for the title of PK which is Luffy's dream. Likewise, it should stand to reason that the same would apply for someone like Mihawk.

If you genuinely think Doflamingo can give an Admiral atleast mid difficulty then that places him at top tier. He's aware he wouldn't underestimate the Strawhat so when Luffy arrives at the palace, he would probably beat him until he reaches similar condition as Law and keep him alive to 'trade' him for CC since the Captain. All of Luffy's arc enemies have been on his general level except for Moria which Luffy could beat thanks to a one time power up. Furthermore, the future main arc villains will be having atleast one guy under them who is on their level which is why I think it would make sense that the same applies for Doflamingo who is a NW pirate veteran. He's the first real threat the Strawhat has faced and we're already on the third arc without seeing them go all out for a victory. The Doflamingo/Law fight suggested the latter could give Doflamingo atleast mid difficulty if he was at full health which again, in my opinion, means they're on the same general level. Oda also portrayed DD in a negative way when he was casually frozen by Aokiji which to me implied Aokiji was out of his league, like how he is to Luffy and Co. Remember, Doflamingo has deep connections and time on his side. As long as he's a Warlord, Fujitora will not be able to touch him. I don't know what Fujitora is smoking to have such an ambition, but Akainu shouldn't be that dumb to give up such a strong force now of all times when their HQ is located in the NW. I would have agreed with you about the Kaido deal before but seeing all of the things that happened so far, I'm thinking it's got to do with Doflamingo being aware of how much stronger Kaido is than him. Before we found out Doflamingo's arc was coming up, my opinion of his strength was that he was bottom of the top tiers based on gut feeling and being defeated by Luffy would tell us the latter has reached top tier status but now at best him pushing Admirals etc to low difficulty at best is what I'm leaning towards. Luffy gets stomped by them so should mean Luffy can push DD to high difficulty and loses but wins if plot is by his side.

I'm not gonna bother with Vista because that has been done to death.

I will say though that the WSS logic is broken. Shanks most likely fights similar to Rayleigh, what will you do then? Say Mihawk > Shanks?

DD imo has been portrayed to be on the level of Jozu, I think its fair to say he's around Jozu's level. I disagree with the fact that the Strawhats main villain has always been in the same general level. Luffy was no where near Croc's level. If Croc was 100 Luffy would be 40. Yet it still happened, I think this arc is like alabasta 2.0 and if a non gear second Luffy who had just entered the Grand line could beat a guy who is 10x's what Luffy was at the time than why can't it happen now. I dont think its fair to judge a guy because its his arc, first of all nothing has happened yet so we dont know how he's going down second of all, defeating an enemy doesn't mean you have to be above him or in the same level even depending on how you beat him, Croc is a prime example of this. MF Croc seemed to be above MF Luffy. I also don't buy your respect excuse that Croc recieved during the War, being a shichibukai doesn't earn you respect, being strong does. Moriah was also in that war, yet DD and Jimbe both severely disrespected him, implying that he is not worth their time, on the other hand Croc was praised and respected by a bunch of high tiers/top tiers including Sengoku. DD also did not respect Law at all.

Imo Luffy is to DD what alabasta Luffy was to Croc, and there will be heavy plot needed to win. His encounters against mid tiers/ high tiers/top tiers show us that he is above the M3 level by quite a bit. He provoked Aokiji during that encounter, and then immediately broke out of his ice. And I gave you the main villain / right hand man analogy. During each main arc we've seen that the gap between the main villain and second in command is tremendous. Going by that pattern, Vergo who is M3 level is much weaker than DD, it is hard for me to decide who would win between Vergo and Luffy to be honest. I see that fight being like a Lucci vs Luffy type battle. For DD to have guys M3 level (assuming Pica, Diamante, Trebol are) stacked in his crew, should speak of his strength.

I will wait till we see more before I say exactly where DD ranks, but I believe he is either a high high tier or a low top tier, Im not sure I consider Jozu a top tier, but he's close and I see them both around the same level (via DD's portrayal against Jozu at the war + other encounters).

LeEvilTongue · Feb 8, 2014

Dofla extremely low diff... How can Dofla lose to a guy who will eventually get butt-fu##ed by Shilliew?

Hijey · Feb 9, 2014

ToshiZO said:
I'm not gonna bother with Vista because that has been done to death.

I will say though that the WSS logic is broken. Shanks most likely fights similar to Rayleigh, what will you do then? Say Mihawk > Shanks?

DD imo has been portrayed to be on the level of Jozu, I think its fair to say he's around Jozu's level. I disagree with the fact that the Strawhats main villain has always been in the same general level. Luffy was no where near Croc's level. If Croc was 100 Luffy would be 40. Yet it still happened, I think this arc is like alabasta 2.0 and if a non gear second Luffy who had just entered the Grand line could beat a guy who is 10x's what Luffy was at the time than why can't it happen now. I dont think its fair to judge a guy because its his arc, first of all nothing has happened yet so we dont know how he's going down second of all, defeating an enemy doesn't mean you have to be above him or in the same level even depending on how you beat him, Croc is a prime example of this. MF Croc seemed to be above MF Luffy. I also don't buy your respect excuse that Croc recieved during the War, being a shichibukai doesn't earn you respect, being strong does. Moriah was also in that war, yet DD and Jimbe both severely disrespected him, implying that he is not worth their time, on the other hand Croc was praised and respected by a bunch of high tiers/top tiers including Sengoku. DD also did not respect Law at all.

Imo Luffy is to DD what alabasta Luffy was to Croc, and there will be heavy plot needed to win. His encounters against mid tiers/ high tiers/top tiers show us that he is above the M3 level by quite a bit. He provoked Aokiji during that encounter, and then immediately broke out of his ice. And I gave you the main villain / right hand man analogy. During each main arc we've seen that the gap between the main villain and second in command is tremendous. Going by that pattern, Vergo who is M3 level is much weaker than DD, it is hard for me to decide who would win between Vergo and Luffy to be honest. I see that fight being like a Lucci vs Luffy type battle. For DD to have guys M3 level (assuming Pica, Diamante, Trebol are) stacked in his crew, should speak of his strength.

I will wait till we see more before I say exactly where DD ranks, but I believe he is either a high high tier or a low top tier, Im not sure I consider Jozu a top tier, but he's close and I see them both around the same level (via DD's portrayal against Jozu at the war + other encounters).

I used to believe Shanks was slightly stronger before becoming more interested in OP and looking up debates on forums, mainly versus threads. I currently believe Mihawk is slightly stronger based on current knowledge and as you say, that Shanks is most likely turn out to be like his master. Since we haven't seen Shanks in action, we can't be sure he doesn't have anything outside of his swordsmanship and say for certain he is weaker like Rayleigh. Regardless of who is stronger, I think the difference between them will be somewhere like Akainu/Aokiji being former rivals and people Luffy/Zoro wanna surpass. Google OPBD Formal Debate Series #1: Mihawk vs. Shanks and click on the first one. Judges are going to vote which team made the more convincing argument, regardless if it's against the one they think is stronger between the two so no bias involved. You should check it out, it's interesting and you might change your opinion like me.

I would have agreed with you pre timeskip on that one. That Doflamingo would be around as strong as Jozu and Vista at that time. However, I have a hard time seeing Oda portray them like he did with Doflamingo with Aokiji and exhausted and tired Law when we've already seen them perform much better than that during the war. I don't remember much of Alabasta fight, but I don't think Croc was on another level. In the first fight, they were in the desert. Crocodile is like Pica/Jimbei in the sense that he can become stronger depending where he is at. Luffy also had no way of hitting him so his horribly loss was fair and Croc seemed to be out of his league. I don't really rememeber the second fight, but I think Luffy did much better since he had water but lost in the end for some reason. The third fight Croc was the one that was handicapped iirc but if he was so much stronger than him, he would have beaten Luffy. Crocodile was stronger by some amount, say 100 to 85, but he can't possibly have been stronger in MF. We know that Doflamingo is stronger than Sanji and that Sanji can fodderize a pacifista which the pre timeskip crew combined can barely win against and that the pre skip SH combined are much stronger than pre skip Crocodile. Knowing all of this, do we then say Doflamingo, who is weaker than Mihawk, and Crocodile had a fight where there were no winner to our knowledge? We shouldn't because that's impossible. It's like saying Nami could stop Doflamingo if the latter actually wanted to kill Robin. Crocodile was fine after his encounter with Mihawk and the latter for whatever reason stopped going after Luffy, a reason other than not being able to crush Crocodile since he can do it. Crocodile also saved Ace and Luffy after that incident as well.

I think DD is upper high tier. Or using your list, he'd be somewhere around in the middle while Jozu/Vista/Lucky Roo etc would be upper high tier(low top tier going by my list). I personally don't think there will be as much plot involved as the Croc fight since we haven't seen the limit of Luffy's training with Rayleigh and because of how an exhausted and injured Law did against Doflamingo. We'll see what happens so until then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

ToshiZO · Feb 9, 2014

Alright for now Im gonna leave the DD topic alone, but here is what Croc did during MF.

He tanked a brilliant punk from Diamond Jozu: