[VS] Doflamingo vs Cracker
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chopstickchakra
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This is bases on what exactly? We have nothing to indicate Doffy can't break them. In fact his fight with Luffy indicates he could.
It took Luffy using a G4 Kong gun to break the biscuit. Doffy took a hit from Kong gun directly(among other and more powerful hits) and unless they were anime only scenes(which I'll double check shortly) Doffy was able to trade some punches with G4 Luffy meaning he must be putting out a relative force with his strikes. Those bits aside(incase they aren't cannon) his 16 holy bullets was able to hold back KKG for a little bit as well. All this implies to me he has a comparable impact as G4 which was enough to break biscuits.
Whether Cracker or Doffy would win is a separate issue but you're crazy if you think he couldn't break a biscuit.
Punk Hazard
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Why would he even need to break it, as opposed to controlling them and using his strings to use them as wrecking balls against Cracker? He could literally just attach threads to one biscuit and smash it into another and have their strength cancel out and both break. Plus there's the potential for him to use Awakening on the biscuits themselves.
BusinessManTeno
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chopstickchakra
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Skull Knight
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Doffy only took what 4 G4 hits before he was ko'd.
On the other hand Cracker lasted 11-12hrs with God knows how many times Luffy went G4.
So in Endurance dept Cracker n his biscuits > Doffy
Defence Luffy himself praised Crackers armament was hardest thing he faced till that period.
So Defence dept,
Cracker > Doffy
Offence both are close fighters.
Doffy at best got some mediocre mid range attacks which were casually stopped by Law. He also only manage to hit Luffy was when he was in his base form.
On the other hand Cracker got a clean hit on Luffy.
So Cracker >= Doffy in this department too.
Intelligence
If someone says Cracker was a idiot to not kill Nami then Doffy himself wasn't the brightest guy in OPverse.
When Luffy ran out of G4 gas Doffy started playing with fodder rather than going for kill shot.
So in this department both are equal.
Other:
Doffy is fast no doubt about that.
He got Awakening,Parasyte, Clone n Birdcage.
But ever asked what can speed do against those biscuits.
Parasyte, Bird Cage also useless.
Awakening is the only thing that's useful in his arsenal but can those things pierce biscuit soldiers???
On the other hand Cracker lasted 11-12hrs with God knows how many times Luffy went G4.
So in Endurance dept Cracker n his biscuits > Doffy
Defence Luffy himself praised Crackers armament was hardest thing he faced till that period.
So Defence dept,
Cracker > Doffy
Offence both are close fighters.
Doffy at best got some mediocre mid range attacks which were casually stopped by Law. He also only manage to hit Luffy was when he was in his base form.
On the other hand Cracker got a clean hit on Luffy.
So Cracker >= Doffy in this department too.
Intelligence
If someone says Cracker was a idiot to not kill Nami then Doffy himself wasn't the brightest guy in OPverse.
When Luffy ran out of G4 gas Doffy started playing with fodder rather than going for kill shot.
So in this department both are equal.
Other:
Doffy is fast no doubt about that.
He got Awakening,Parasyte, Clone n Birdcage.
But ever asked what can speed do against those biscuits.
Parasyte, Bird Cage also useless.
Awakening is the only thing that's useful in his arsenal but can those things pierce biscuit soldiers???
chopstickchakra
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How many G4 hits did Cracker take? 0. He was launched out of the stomach of a G4 Luffy so if we really want we can count that as 1 though no impact from G4 happened. He then flew through a few biscuits, trees and who knows what until crashing into a castle.
And for the record he took 5 G4 shots.
1. Kong Gun
2. Rhino Howitzer
3.Culverin
4. Lion Bazooka
5. King Kong Gun
Mind you the "shot" Cracker took was while he was still healthy and unharmed, while Doffy's shots came after he had already been injured.
Yes Cracker's defense probably is a bit higher as he's someone whose focused his fighting style around hiding and protecting his main body.
Doffy's not a "close range" fighter he's an all around range fighter. He has long range attacks, mid range and close range.
Doffy got a clean hit on G4 Luffy it just happened to not have effect against his rubber body and haki.
Rikudou Tobi
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Can you post a viz scan of him not knowing this because I don’t remember.
As for Big mom not mentioning Cracker being stronger part is completely wrong. She didn’t verbally say it herself, she expressed it by her actions.
When Big mom heard that about Luffy beating Doflamingo, she sent out Cracker specifically. Not Smoothie, not Snack, and not Katakuri.
So obviously she knew what type of strength gap Doflamingo was in.
Luffy did not use a casual one hit to beat Cracker. When Luffy fought Doflamingo, BounceMan was overpowering Doflamingo with 5 hits and Dofy stayed unresponsive for a while before Luffy finding out that he needed to hit him one more time before knocking him out.
It was all too late before Doflamingo regained complete consciousness.
What Big mom was surprise is that Luffy’s BounceMan has the strength to topple down Katakuri if punches connected. So BounceMan was above Cracker and Doflamingo’s level from the start.
Do realize that Luffy used BounceMan and all his other transformations that we haven’t seen in the island before appearing in Saobody island to visit his crew. This includes SnakeMan too.
Wrong.
BounceMan hits was defeating Doflamingo, he just timed out because he was greatly weakened before the fight. Remember Luffy said one-more Kong Gun was enough to beat Doflamingo before waking up. It was when Doflamingo regained full consciousness that he had to use KKG to knock him out completely without him having the chance to get back up again.
It’s also not his strongest attack because it’s not his strongest transformation.
In Cracker’s case, BounceMan wasn’t enough to beat him after all the attacks that were spent against Cracker (more than Dofy received). It was TankMan, a much bigger and stronger version of Luffy’s transformation that knocked out Cracker. In fact TankMan to this date is Luffy’s strongest gear 4 transformation.
Skull Knight
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So we not counting all those countless G4 hits which luffy needed to break those biscuits.
And for the record Luffy needed more than 5G4 hits n still unable to get to Cracker for 11hrs.
He was healthy. Whats this shit?
Both fought 11hrs straight. Exhausted, bruised n took a shit amount of hits.
Doffy's fight lasted what an hr at best.
Don't say Doffy would fight would have lasted longer if he was healthy or if he didn't activated BC.
He's a close range fighter.
He closes the gap between himself n his opponent to strike with his threads.
Just check all his fight:
Law vs Doffy
Sanji vs Doffy
Luffy vs Doffy
His long range attacks includes parasyte and awakening.
Remaining attacks were nothing much to talk about.
And Cracker also got a clean hit on G4 which actually affected Luffy.
Now how's parasyte useful against a guy who's hiding inside some ultimate defence thing???
Hows Birdcage effective ???
chopstickchakra
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No we're not because those weren't hitting his real body. Once his real body was involved Cracker went down easier than a Nicaraguan hooker.
Yes Cracker was still in good health when he took his only G4 hit. As you said yourself Luffy had only hit biscuits until then.
An 11 hour fight among top level characters is nothing in OP when we've had multiple high level fighters last days. You think Cracker was tiredafter using his fruit for 11 hours but at the same time talk about him like he's a top tier, if he is then 11 hours wouldn't be that taxing. The way you mention 11 hours it seems like you're referencing it to real world time.
Even if you want to go ahead and say Cracker was getting tired, that's still way more healthy than having taken a Red Hawk punch and a gamma knife attack just shortly before being assaulted by G4.
Doffy's fight went a couple hours but again, if you were to compare the time of Crackers body taking impact compared to Doffy it's a fraction of the time for Cracker.
I like how he's what you say he is even if it defies definition. Doffy has the ability and skill to fight from any range he needs but "he's a close quarter fighter" If he's getting bested in close quarters nothing is stopping him from being able to drop back and keep fighting.
Like I said he has attacks in all ranges, just because he has stronger close quarter combat than the others doesn't negate that he has the other resources when needed. Also look at the opponents, all people he felt above. If he didn't do you think he'd rush in to hand to hand when he could keep distance and attack with Overheat or bullet string.
You mean the clean surprise attack, sure he did get that but once Luffy was aware of him I don't recall him doing anything to Luffy.
Really? Birdcage would trap his movement if you could find the original or round up and cut through a bunch of clones in an area. Parasyte can be used to immobilize the biscuits as well and as Riker pointed out he could attach a string to one biscuit and use it to smash other biscuits.
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Skull Knight
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So what???
Logias also hides there bodies in there element power.
So u will say any hit on logias will start when his actual body gets hit?
Biscuit counts as his own strength.
He uses them as his own armour as well as like his soldiers.
Doffy himself uses his clone to fight/activate BC.
How is that not taxing?
Luffy kept eating his biscuits.
Nami kept making them wet.
Not to forget he took the kong gun straight from Luffy when he was inside his armor.
The problem is you don't see Cracker biscuit as his own power.
If luffy cant even reach to his main body for 11hrs then no way Doffy can even hurt Cracker as G4 luffy interms of Speed/offence is >= Doffy.
Not to forget Luffy had Nami to use rain. Something Doffy wont have if he fights cracker.
chopstickchakra
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Yes because if you haven't actually hit their body then you haven't hit them.
And the what of it, is to showcase that in durability Cracker is actually < Doffy if you look at it as his actual ability to withstand pain.
If an enemy's holding a shield and you hit his shield do you count it as hitting your enemy?
It is taxing but not to the degree you're trying to present it as, especially when we know top tier fighters can fight for days at a time.
I don't know if you really believe some of this stuff or are just saying it trying to boost your point hoping we don't know better. Nothing showed or indicated Luffy touched Cracker's real body when breaking his biscuit. He was clearly lower than the punch and rose up to get the sneak attack you mentioned earlier, had he been hit he wouldn't have landed that counter.
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The problem is you running on the logical fallacy that because G4 broke it it requires G4 force to be broken when we have no way to measure the power difference between G4 and 3. Doffy's awakened strings were able to stall KKG for a but which shows Doffy's attack power is close in range with G4 which would mean he would also be able to break them most likely.
You can't just say Doffy can't hit as hard as Luffy so he can't break the biscuits without some kind of evidence.
Also since you want to use G4 as a metric to base off of let's flip it.;
Cracker can't hit as hard as G4 so how long would it take for him to put down Doffy if he couldn't put down Luffy within 11 hours? Can Cracker keep the energy up as long as is needed? See now me, I would say he has the energy but you already tried to make it a point that 11 hours was taxing for Cracker so which is it?
According to what? Your silly headcanon?
A damn kick blended the body of gear 4, in fact, Luffy had to use Haki in that spot to just stop a single kick of Doffy. I am not saying that with a kick he will break the biscuit, but his strings with his Haki will do the thing, I much more when he saw that his strings with no haki were damaging Luffy in gear 4.
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Also had his organs torn apart from Gamma Knife and was nursing that injury.
We have no idea if Cracker took any hits during that 11 hour period.
No he didn't.
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lmao bro what? I like how you didn't even bring up Awakening here.
Did you even read the fight properly? Doflamingo was looking for Luffy and the fodder got in his way. He didn't ignore Luffy to fight them instead.
He can use Parasite to control the biscuit soldiers and even Cracker himself. Bird Cage is literally a weapon that he can make close in on Cracker and the soldiers. Speed can allow him to get around an army of biscuit soldiers to hit Cracker's actual body.
Mmmm kid, please read properly and understand the context and what characters said about their fight. Luffy used only once Bound Man, nothing suggestest he used it more than once, watch this:
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Nami and the other guy did not know how Gear 4 burned many calories. It was said that Luffy fought, ate and ran as a tactic, reason Cracker got stressed. He never mentioned Luffy used bound man, in fact, there is no use for it when Luffy himself acknowledged that the problem was not breaking them,
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And dont compare the time they fought, Doflamingo stated he could last even days if it was required, Doffy took more powerful attacks and Cracker was one shotted.
Hardness and defense might be different here, since Doffy has a better defense than Cracker:
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Doflamingo with ease stopped a double calvary canon while Cracker failed to stop a Kong Gun. Cracker had to use a barrier of his Biscuit soldiers against Kong Organ since Luffy was breaking them with ease.
And having a greater Armament haki is just false, since that was a wrong translation, here is right one:
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Luffy just said that it was hard to damage him. Add the fact that gear 4 broke with ease the biscuit hardened.
Mediocre range? Lol, his range is literally the whole island of dresrossa. Look at birdcage and his awakening which was said to cover the whole city many times.
I think you forgot that Doffy spammed many of his awakening attacks for 20 minutes at Luffy:
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And given by the words of marines, Sabo and Luffy's state after gear 4, Doffy gave some heavy damage to Luffy. Even though it was off paneled, it was said and hinted by Oda. Just as Aokiji losing to Akainu is a fact even though we did not see it, that is the fact and we cant question it. Oh by the way, those strings Doffy spammed were with no Haki, his attacks with Haki such as God Thread was meant to overpower any attack Luffy had not called KKG, Doffy took directly the power of Gear 4 attacks and said he would kill Luffy in one hit, he lost since KKG was more than he could chew.
It is not that he is an idiot, but his lack of versatility made it impossible to defeat Nami, all he could do was have talk with her:
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And just in case you forgot, Luffy was carried by the gladiators, the same that fought Doffy while Luffy was recovering, and not that Doffy wasted time to kill him, they hide Luffy.
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Cracker was surprised that Luffy had a power strong enough to break his biscuit, which proves he did not know about Gear 4, did not not about gear 4 power and the power needed to destroy Doflamingo:
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And if we go by actions:
- Aokiji said told Smoker to tell Akainu to send an admiral after Doffy and a Admiral with vice admirals and some marines were sent after him to see what was happening.
- Doffy had to be taken by the former Fleet Admiral, a Admiral and a Vice Admiral and Jack mentioned that nothing less was worthy for Doflamingo.
- Law mentioned that it will take Admirals to take him down.
- Law said Kaido himself had to kill Doflamingo, and not some all star of Kaido.
That is just a stupid excuse. In fact, Kaido sent Jack after Luffy and Law when Jack is the weakest of the All Stars and that is when Kaido knew about Luffy defeating Cracker and Katakuri. So this proves nothing, by feats, hype and more things Doffy is superior and not just some words of Big Mom.
Argument refuted.
I never said he used a casual hit to defeat him, I said he used a casual
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Doffy did not lose conscious, he was not fainted otherwise Birdcage would had been gone. He did have a hard time to keep fighting, but nothing stopped him which shows how great his endurance is.Also, those hits Doffy took from Gear 4 are not just Luffy's casual hits, Doffy was hit by Rhino (both feet), Calvary Canon, Kong Gun and Leo Bazooka (Luffy strongest attack in gear 4 after KKG)
While Cracker, was not hit, but pushed through Biscuits with the endurance to hold Gear 3 and weaker than Gear 4. So this means that it took 3+ hits of Gear 3 to defeat Cracker. And I didnt understand bold.
Argument refuted.
Wrong? Bound Man hits defeating Doffy? Dude, the hit that defeated Doffy is KKG and that is Luffy's strongest attack till date. And not Tank Man, Tank Man can even move, Cracker was defeated with his own attack. A long range fighter would spam attacks of Tank Man and it wont even try to dodge them. Tank Man till now it the worst form of Gear 4th, as it names says, he just serves to tank great power, it is the form that has never done a real hit.
Now, Gear 4 normal hits were not defeating Doflamingo, they were damaging them. Even Gear 3 would be enough to Damage him, just as it can damage an Admiral and even can send flying the dragon form of Kaido.
Now, Luffy did say that one more hit to defeat Doflamingo, but is that true? That is when he thought Doffy was near to faint which was false, Luffy and Doflamingo knew that a whole new round of Gear 4 wont be enough, reason that Luffy had to bet everthing in his 1 K.O hit which was said since chapter 789 and chapter 790:
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As Luffy said, he needed a 1 K.O hit, which was he sold to Gatz, reason they protected him for 10 minutes. Gatz told everyone about that 1 K.O hit, reason Doflamingo was also even waiting it, and just as Doflamingo mentioned it, how much can Luffy las in gear 4 the second time ? Implying that Doffy can las longer than it and not be defeated. Luffy has a flashback about lacking power to defeat some monsters with his Gear 4, meaning that Gear 4 normal hits wont be enough for Doffy. Doffy challenges directly Luffy and then lost for his overconfidence.
So no, Basic Gear 4 hits wont defeat Doffy, and here we have a Doffy who took free gear 4 hits and some of Law's strongest attacks before getting serious (awakening).
Argument Refuted
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Crackers Endurance and Durability =/= His DF Endurance and Durability lol. IF we go by DF's power, Strings stopped gear 4 while biscuits got destroyed with ease. Which makes Doffy greater.
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