Do you pity soldiers? Do you respect them?

elitenoob94

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1st to the OP, your are not a soldier. Right now you're a Marine Corp Recruit. Earn the Title then you'll be a Marine. Not a soldier.

You have all these people telling you your a pawn, but most of these people don't understand the idea of service. Quick to point out about this and that yet rarely get up off their back side to do something about it or come up with a decent solution to what they are complaining about. You'll be a pawn, but a pawn can become a king.

I respect any soldier, even the ones I fought against because at least they got the guts to stand up for a cause. A cause so great that they are willing to sacrifice their own life. Yeah their killers, but you have to have that mentality just to survive in combat. You have to be able to put your humanity aside at times and just go on training an muscle memory and hope that the nightmares aren't to bad when you switch it back on.

For those who fight for it, freedom has a special flavor the protected never know.

I never said I was, but I am on contract so theoretically everything a Marine is accountable for I am just as well, and I'm neither since I haven't shipped yet. The term is "Poolee".

I agree, though. You'll get your half and half of peoples beliefs but I just don't understand. If you were making such a decision you would honor someones choice and wish them luck and respect them as well. Although most people here are not in the US either.
 

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I only respect soldiers who fight for the protection of their country and its people, and also are good in sense of human. I don't respect soldiers who take pleasure in making others suffer, which I speculate happened a lot in many wars.
 

NaNaNaaaaa

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I am not going to give you a long winded opinion but I only have respect, yes some go bad but that can be said for every human being in every situation, so this covers all the majority, which is the good ones.

I 100% back, support and respect the British armed forces, when I see them I feel nothing but pride. For all the crud people say, if there was a crisis, who would people be calling out for? Who would be giving there lives?

My Grandfather was in the Navy and a Japanese prisoner of war, my other grandfather was in the front line trenches in WW1. I have great love for out armed forces. My opinion is also not debatable lol besides, what girl doesn't like a soldier :XD:
 

7PointOh

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I never said I was, but I am on contract so theoretically everything a Marine is accountable for I am just as well, and I'm neither since I haven't shipped yet. The term is "Poolee".

I agree, though. You'll get your half and half of peoples beliefs but I just don't understand. If you were making such a decision you would honor someones choice and wish them luck and respect them as well. Although most people here are not in the US either.

Well to answer your question, yes I pity them. Because I been there. I know what the grunts go through and supporting arms. I was an 0311 in a prior and then switched over to comms. I am out now but I still remember how it feel especially in the lower ranks. I respect the idea of people serving and what they do but not always how they do.

And I was a direct ship so I never spent much time in the pool. A week after the seeing the recruiter, I was on my way to the depot.
 

YowYan

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I have received an earlier ship date for February 9th to MCRD San Diego (Marine Corps Recruit Depot), point is, I have a handful of people who approve of my dedication and commitment to the US (I am aware some of you are not in the US on here) and that they respect my choices. I also have a portion of people who think it's wrong and it's just endless killing, tossing your life away to a government that is corrupted.

I do not argue with them because for one, I'm not much with politics, never was and never want to be. It's a whole different ball game, but I don't understand people who disregard our choices and see it as "wrong". People out there don't. Terrorism doesn't stop. People do things unforgiving. We are the ones made to put it to a halt.

I want an honest debate. Do you feel empathy for soldiers? Do you understand their commitment to protect others? I want to know your views NB. I'm curious.

Terrorism won't stop indeed as long as people like you choose to be ignorant and go to battle without knowing it's agenda at hand. You're the terrorist, working for a fascist government which has its claws all around the globe in the name of emperialism. You're not protecting anyone. Listen to Ron Paul and learn.
 

elitenoob94

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Terrorism won't stop indeed as long as people like you choose to be ignorant and go to battle without knowing it's agenda at hand. You're the terrorist, working for a fascist government which has its claws all around the globe in the name of emperialism. You're not protecting anyone. Listen to Ron Paul and learn.

I'm not a becoming a soldier to just fight either. I'm 70% joining for a career route. The other 30% is to truly find out what defies me in life.

And no, I'm not a terrorist, so please do not call me one. I am offended.
 

YowYan

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I'm not a becoming a soldier to just fight either. I'm 70% joining for a career route. The other 30% is to truly find out what defies me in life.

And no, I'm not a terrorist, so please do not call me one. I am offended.

If you're part of an occupation, you are ._. But then again, even your average citizen is one as they finance these empire business, be it against their will. Like the UK taxpayers funding ISIS through welfare system.


But I understand it's an individual choice and something used to develop yourself. 2 friends of mine have their commanders trial in January, so I'm training with them. They just want to test their own dedication.
 

elitenoob94

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If you're part of an occupation, you are ._. But then again, even your average citizen is one as they finance these empire business, be it against their will. Like the UK taxpayers funding ISIS through welfare system.


But I understand it's an individual choice and something used to develop yourself. 2 friends of mine have their commanders trial in January, so I'm training with them. They just want to test their own dedication.

I'm not even going to argue. That's like saying everyone is a terrorist because everything in this world is part of an occupation.
 

elitenoob94

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Well to answer your question, yes I pity them. Because I been there. I know what the grunts go through and supporting arms. I was an 0311 in a prior and then switched over to comms. I am out now but I still remember how it feel especially in the lower ranks. I respect the idea of people serving and what they do but not always how they do.

And I was a direct ship so I never spent much time in the pool. A week after the seeing the recruiter, I was on my way to the depot.

I am 0311 as well. I was going to sign a Recon contract but I don't want to be an 0321 since all they do is simply take pictures and what not. If anything I'd be MARSOC which will be my latter goal while I'm in the Corps. Lucky you. I want to leave ASAP. Unfortunately I have to dwiddle around with my thumb up my ass waiting until Feb 09.
 

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I'm not even going to argue. That's like saying everyone is a terrorist because everything in this world is part of an occupation.

What he is saying is, that you're a tool used by the government, in which any case he's right. You're not fighting for freedom or justice; you're only fighting for them to strengthen their profit from wars and propaganda, and just like how terrorist organisations do the same thing through their men, you are no different.
 
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elitenoob94

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What he is saying is, that you're a tool used by the government, in which any case he's right. You're not fighting for freedom or justice; you're only fighting for them to strengthen their profit from wars and propaganda, and just like how terrorist organisations do the same thing through their men, you are no different.

I know the definition, and as much as I want to say no I agree, but that's not the entire reasoning behind the military and if you think so then sadly you are mistaken.
 

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I feel empathy for them. Anyone in a situation where you are constantly under threat of dying, in a war, it's gonna be rough. And you definitely need some kind of bravery to be a soldier. However, I see war and the division between countries as mankind's greatest failure. As such, I view soldiers as an aspect of that great failure.
 

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I know the definition, and as much as I want to say no I agree, but that's not the entire reasoning behind the military and if you think so then sadly you are mistaken.

The only reasoning behind the military is to protect the country. This concept had its meaning back in WW1 and WW2, but after +70 years, it is about money and power.
 

elitenoob94

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The only reasoning behind the military is to protect the country. This concept had its meaning back in WW1 and WW2, but after +70 years, it is about money and power.

That reasoning is still in existence, rather you want to believe it or not otherwise there would be no such thing as a "military".
 

Aim64C

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I see soldiers as humans.

The military has changed many times throughout history and across different cultures. In many nations, the military and the police are effectively the same thing. It's something that sets heavily westernized nations apart from many other parts of the world where there really is no distinction between police and military - who are essentially the enforcers of a hegemony (be it a sole dictator or a more complicated ruling caste).

In America's history, the soldier was often a common man who wanted to make something of himself. The officers were educated land owners and were largely responsible for operating their assigned unit with a high degree of autonomy. They handled their own procurement, managed their own training, and in many cases decided their own direction unless they had orders conflicting with whatever scheme was in their head.

In many cases - those who took up arms against Britain were the convicts and debtors who either fled or were evicted from Britain (or the descendants thereof). It wasn't quite the romantic story that gets told over and over - but it is a very powerful story, still - that these men would decide to take on the greatest empire in the world with no promise of success or no guarantee they would ever see payment if they did succeed.

It is interesting to note that, not long after the formation of the Articles of Confederation, Washington had to plead with his officers to not stage a coupe due to the failure of the politicians to provide adequate pay for the services during war-time.

The soldiers who followed - the ones who fought in the War of 1812, signed up with a more clear idea of what they were defending. These were the men who believed that the fledgling nation was both in need and worthy of protection. The national military, at this time, was still a very loosely organized deal. Federal officers would take command of several State militia units and direct them in the theater. It was a bit of a different idea of what the military was.

The exception to this would be the Navy. The Navy was directly commissioned prior to the Declaration of Independence. Out of those contracted privateers, a more organized system of authority began to develop as well as a variety of Naval 'infantry' - the boarding parties - the Marines.

The Navy was one of the first major foreign influences of the U.S. as a government.

The Civil War was, ultimately, very damaging to the U.S. military as an institution, and something that it has never quite recovered from.

The Civil War saw the military used as a sort of 'palace guard' for the Lincoln administration - a taint that never completely went away. Soldiers became enforcers of political doctrine and more directly arms of presidential agendas. This time period also saw a subtle shift in the mentality of what the military was about. No longer was the military about defending the home land. It was about carrying out orders from politicians who decided that another group of people had to live as they decreed.

Now, we can go over the reasons for the war, and there were many, and decide whether or not we would agree with what the Confederacy was doing - but that doesn't really touch on how the political wars at the time influenced the military for over a century.

When you go from protecting your ideology/way of life to protecting your hold of authority - it leads to tyranny and oppression in the end.

The generation that fought World War 1 is something of an example of this. We were fighting and didn't seem to know why. Being a soldier was a job ... but ... it had a very vague description that seemed to be applied in ways that didn't stack up with the stories in the history books.

This led to a general anti-war sentiment with a trend toward isolationism. America wanted to leave the rest of the world alone and not fight for reasons that were not entirely clear.

Then came the generation that fought in World War II.

This is really where the "Modern Military" began.

After the anti-war, isolationist sentiment expressed by the U.S. populace - the military built up during World War I was largely abandoned. There were few in the military with experience in organization, let alone warfare. Military contractors were small and largely offshoots of civilian manufacturing. While we were not exactly defenseless, the military was a sort of secondary curiosity and political pork project.

Then public opinion shifted in the wake of Pearl Harbor and increased media coverage of events coming out of Europe.

This made the idea of a global threat seem credible in the public eye. Men didn't just sign up for the military to defend the nation - they signed up to defend the concept of a 'free' or 'western' world. They saw it as being attacked by imperialistic systems of government and decided it was time to help other nations resist.

This is where the military's over-used legend of efficiency came from. Having very little leadership in place, the government set to work bringing in business owners, managers, CEOs, etc of various companies. They were immediately granted officer positions, some of them fairly well ranked; while others were put into the higher ranks of the enlisted side.

These men literally moved mountains at every level. They cut through political nonsense, streamlined procurement, and wielded manpower expertly. While it was still a bureaucracy - it was effectively giving innovative business owners/managers several factories worth of willing and able bodies with a budget several times that of what they were used to working with.

This was how the U.S. went from a group that was largely untrained and inexperienced to fast and adaptive combat troops pioneering tactics and strategies that would set the tone for the foreseeable future of warfare.

In a sense - it was the 'brotherly' and fraternal nature of our military that led to a much more candid relationship between soldier and officer.

It is easier to understand this with a bit of experience and a knowledge of other systems.

The 'caste' systems of other nations dominated the mindset of military command structure within many countries (even those where that caste system was disappearing). The officers were the educated few and the enlisted were the peasants. Warfare was a series of drills that were taught to the peasants. The officers selected the action to be performed and issued the order which was followed by the peasantry.

While there was the need to be an effective leader - there wasn't nearly the kind of feedback system. The peasant wasn't encouraged to share his observations, usually. It is a very "do this because I said so - and because if everyone does their own thing, we all die."

By the time World War II rolled around, however, the distinction between officers and enlisted began to decline. Many of the people who were in the trenches were tradesmen, hunters, teachers, historians, etc. Their proof of practical knowledge led to the necessity for leaders to begin incorporating a more candid leadership style. The 'enlightened soldier' doesn't really care to listen to the douche who is giving suicidal orders no matter how shiny his collar is.

It was this that led to America's notoriously adaptive ground forces. The immediate chains of command became smaller, leaders/officers became more dynamically involved with their decision making and drawing on the experience of their groups. These leaders then shared information with each other, and the result was a set of very adaptive strategies.

In many respects, this was the "Golden Age" of the military. This is the heroic model of a soldier we frequently think of - and it produced generals such as this:

[video=youtube;dv2Wi-hFlJ8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv2Wi-hFlJ8[/video]

While the darkness of political agendas existed at the time - it was overshadowed, greatly, by the principles and virtues held by men at all levels of the military. It was a military built upon the response to a global threat, and it was fought by men (and, in many cases, women as well) who sacrificed everything for the idea that no one should live in tyranny.

...

And how they turn in their graves at what has come to pass, since.

The Korean war was an extension of World War II - though more a settling of territory lines between Russia and the Allies (and fledgling U.N.). That said, it was fought by many of the same people who served in World War II.

Vietnam was another damaging war. This was another confused war fought largely for political purposes. In theory - it could have been won - but, realistically, the U.S. had disenfranchised the Vietnamese with their insistence on leaders of the 'puppet' government.

Military history aside, the public backlash against the war (largely instigated by communist revolutionaries, which should surprise no one given the objective at the time) set an antagonistic tone between the military and civilian populations. It served to isolate those within the military. They were openly judged for their decision to voluntarily enlist or to obey the draft order.

The scars of this era largely sent the pendulum of public opinion rocketing back toward something close to uniform-worship. This has compounded strongly with nationalism in the recent years to form the idea that people serving in the military are heroes serving our nation - that it is unpatriotic to criticize the military.

This idea has tainted some of the minds within the military, I have noticed, and it is not healthy. Further, politics has turned the once-efficient military structure capable of moving mountains in the 40s to a immovable mass of politicized social experiments and corporate welfare not 80 years later.

A lot of the 'leadership systems' in place amount to "Yell by number" with those 'leaders' being those who put up with the political bullshit long enough to get promoted and tell others: "when I was..." so as to justify their completely illogical and unnecessary decisions.

It has led to a return to the caste system of authoritarian command that is simply not going to be tolerated by people in western societies.

There are basically two types of soldiers, these days.

Those who are doing it as a job.

Those who are trying to live out an idea that will be denied them by the political institution in place.

Granted, we aren't as bad as the Iraqi army was when we first went into Iraq (that was a blatant political system) - but we are only sinking deeper into that kind of system.

If you are an officer who questions the validity/effectiveness/necessity of a policy set by the progressives in the Obama administration (such as witch hunts for various forms of intolerance) - then you get passed over for promotion ... or told in no uncertain terms to resign.

The military can only take so much of that before it becomes little better than a political gravy train that has party lap dogs at all levels of command (placed there because they will do what the party/leadership says, not because they are actually effective). It is this slow corruption of the military compounded with the hero-worshiping nationalism that concern me.

As much as I have respect for my brothers and sisters who wear the uniform - I am gravely concerned about how that system is going to use their desire to do their job and/or serve their nation. I am also concerned about the long-term effects of how that type of political gravy-train changes the culture of the military into palace guards.

Already, you have people demanding that the federal government take over policing (because a bunch of white soldiers are going to police better than a bunch of white cops.... that's going to go over really well when classic redneck jarhead from the sticks wastes G-licious in a city, somewhere). While I doubt that's a realistic concern for the immediate future - it shows a trend toward the systems of other nations where the military is a guardian of the hegemony over the people it 'represents' more so than a defense of the homeland.

At the end of the day - I neither pity nor detest soldiers. I neither worship nor abhor soldiers. I try to keep a very literal view of what is going on at all times and not let my sentiments cloud my analysis.

That doesn't mean I don't have sentiments or emotions - but those are between me and soldiers I deem warranting an expression of those emotions.
 

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What soldiers are we talking about? The mercenaries who mostly enroll for career and to boast later how tough they are, but in fact never even get close to a real battle? I look at them as it is like any other profession that people do to get money/pedigree.

Now the soldiers who are drafted in war time, civilians mostly who had nothing to do with the cause of the war, yet they are slaughtered (like soldiers in ww I-II) - yeah I feel sorry for them.

Sidenote: just to clear something, I'm not American so you are not protecting me from anything. Actually, if my country was in war, I could be drafted as well, in which case I'd have to fight for my country too. So don't make a martyr out of yourself.
 

RasenUchihaChaos

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Hate for the soldiers who are scum respect for those who joined to actually do some good but I do tire of the sacrifice lives for your freedom that is complete bs this is not WW2 or the revolutionary/ civil war

I pity soldiers who die thinking they are defending their country but are dying for BS
 

Handsome Jack

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Soldiers should have respect, since they're risking their life to protect their country, yet a football player like Cristiano Ronaldo, Messi etc... makes more money than their whole life, just by playing football... Lol
 
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