[VS] DMS Kakashi

[ARGUS]

Her seeing him coming is what makes it so bad. She saw him and attacked first yet still got hit.

>she busted PS with her ash bone,
>kakashi slipped through it and used kamui raikiri
>kaguya saw him coming before kakashi even landed it, meanig that she reacted, its as simple as that

Using Amenominaka is pointless since he'd change location with her and phase through whatever defense she'll set up(ice acid etc)

Calling it plot is rather weak. Everything in the manga is plot.

she clearly had the means to evade kakashis attack and she even reacted to him well before he ussed his raikiri
claiming that she got blitzed is just wrong when she reacted to him,
not to mention that she has already showed us that she has the means to evade that attack, yett for some reason didnt,
calling it CIS or Plot is still valid,,

and with amenominaka, she can just teleport herself to another dimension, (Yomutsu Hirasaka)
kakashi doesnt need to come with her

 

[wael reda]

Naruto stomps comfortably. Mass shadow clones is perfect counter for Kamui snipe.

But without bijuu sasuke isn't winning.

@Kifflom. He blitzed her. A being capable of flight she posseses nigh infinite directions to dodge. It's not that she didn't. But she couldnt.

BG,Clones isn't much problem ,kakashi can push it to high diff or even win ,naruto isn't stomping here ,please read my main post and tell me what you disagree with ,if you don't want to do so ,never mind

 

[Selan]

Her seeing him coming is what makes it so bad. She saw him and attacked first yet still got hit.

Using Amenominaka is pointless since he'd change location with her and phase through whatever defense she'll set up(ice acid etc)

Calling it plot is rather weak. Everything in the manga is plot.

Yeah. She could have simply dodged him, phasing or not she should have only sidestep to avoid him, or use his S/T jutsu. Also she didn't react at all to Kakashi's blitz. Her "!!" is the surprise for Kakashi being able to survive his attack by phasing through it; in the page after you can clearly see how neither Kaguya neither Zetsu react if not after Kaguya is hit by Kakashi. Kakashi was simply too fast and too haxxed with Kamui Raikiri for her to do anything.

I know from a portrayal and story purpose vision, Naruto and Sasuke should have surpassed their master Kakashi. But based on feats, they don't: they fought Kaguya for quite a while without real good results, while Kakashi literally changed the battle against a stronger version of Kaguya, with his actions and his strategy; he could stop her giant form thanks to Perfect Susanoo and Kamui Shuriken, dodge her thanks to Kamui phasing, hit her directly thanks to Kamui Raikiri hax + Rikudo enhanced speed and outperform her S/T jutsu thanks to long range Kamui. Sasuke couldn't do anything to stop Kaguya's S/T and couldn't hit her with a surprise attack with Rinnegan S/T followed by Chidori, his Perfect Susanoo was also helpless in the fight: Kakashi shitted on Kaguya's S/T with his reflexes and his perfect execution on Kamui (saving Naruto's life and making the sealing combo possible), could hit her with a quick thrust thanks to more hax and more speed, effectively damaging her in a 1 vs 1, and his Perfect Susanoo was really useful, countering Kaguya's giant form and helping with mobility, and even launching Sakura from above to hit Kaguya. Naruto did decently well but all of his raw power is useless against Kamui.

Basically Naruto and Sasuke have far more raw power but Kakashi has too more hax with all Kamui powers amped by Rikudo chakra, and also is a genius fighter, while their intellect, even if good, can't compare; all their power is useless if they can't hit him, due to top notch reflexes + Kamui phasing and Kamui teleporting (at maximizes speed, having both eyes) and can't defend from him (long range Kamui's execution has feats to be faster than Naruto's speed and faster than Kaguya's S/T that blitzed Sasuke; Kamui Raikiri couldn't be dodged by Kaguya herself).

DMS Kakashi is above Madara too. By portrayal, he outperformed a stronger being than Madara, with Rikudo Sennin acknowledging him as the most important for Kaguya's defeat. By feats, he can avoid Mugen Tsukuyomi by teleporting in the other dimension with Kamui and he can shit on Linbo: he can camp in Perfect Susanoo, therefore having a constant defence, and fight by long range spamming Kamui Shuriken, with either Kamui Shuriken being able to create a giant warp that closes instantly and covers an area as big as the Perfect Susanoo himself, and with them being spammable and at least four at once, it's a big problem for Madara; as they are made by Kakashi adding Kamui's power to Susanoo, Kakashi can likely create a Kamui Sword too. Anyway Linbo doesn't work after a certain distance, so Kakashi can camp away, then teleport behind Madara with Kamui at maximized speed (having both eyes) and then blitz him with Kamui Raikiri. If it doesn't kill him, he warps his body in the other dimension in an istant, and he is damned to stay there forever, thus Kakashi wins. Kakashi also nullifies Gudodama with Rikudo chakra added to his ninjutsu or simply warps them with Kamui or bypasses with phasing. Kamui phasing and teleporting also let him survive Madara's multiple Chibaku Tensei with ease. Not to mention everything Madara does, Kakashi can outspeed with Kamui, in offense and in defense.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

>she busted PS with her ash bone,
>kakashi slipped through it and used kamui raikiri
>kaguya saw him coming before kakashi even landed it, meanig that she reacted, its as simple as that

yet she couldn't dodge. Simple as that.

she clearly had the means to evade kakashis attack and she even reacted to him well before he ussed his raikiri
claiming that she got blitzed is just wrong when she reacted to him,
not to mention that she has already showed us that she has the means to evade that attack, yett for some reason didnt,
calling it CIS or Plot is still valid,,

she didn't have the means tho.

and with amenominaka, she can just teleport herself to another dimension, (Yomutsu Hirasaka)
kakashi doesnt need to come with her

the only way she can teleport herself and herself alone is through portals.
If. She shift the entire area everyone is coming with her.
It happened for lava, gravity, ice, and genisis.

In any and all of those situations. Kamui would phase through the ice/lava/acid that she could use to protect herself, and still hit her.
If she left through portal it would just get kamui'd.

Really and truly she couldn't escape, but I'm guessing you're not gauging how fast he came down on her. His susanno was flying downward at the time then he used said ps as a spring to further increase his speed.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

BG,Clones isn't much problem ,kakashi can push it to high diff or even win ,naruto isn't stomping here ,please read my main post and tell me what you disagree with ,if you don't want to do so ,never mind

The reason why clones are a problem is because the same tricks he pulled on kaguya with tsb etc he can pull on kakashi. Making the snipe(which is undoubtedly his best option kill wise) an unviable option.
PS slash/ and kamui shurikens are (depending on distance) dodged. If a clone in its entirety gets pulled to kamuiland kakashi's entire phasing game falls apart like obito's did. So kakashi can't use his techniques as freely as noodles can. Chakra fists (which I strongly belive even his clones can do) busts open ps casually. Giving naruto the opening he needs. And naruto can maintain a tbb on him for 5 minutes killing his intangibility time.

 

[wael reda]

The reason why clones are a problem is because the same tricks he pulled on kaguya with tsb etc he can pull on kakashi. Making the snipe(which is undoubtedly his best option kill wise) an unviable option.
PS slash/ and kamui shurikens are (depending on distance) dodged. If a clone in its entirety gets pulled to kamuiland kakashi's entire phasing game falls apart like obito's did. So kakashi can't use his techniques as freely as noodles can. Chakra fists (which I strongly belive even his clones can do) busts open ps casually. Giving naruto the opening he needs. And naruto can maintain a tbb on him for 5 minutes killing his intangibility time.

As I said in my main post ,naruto's clones's durability isn't that good ,seeing how all naruto's clones vanished once they hit the ground when kaguya sent them to the gravity dimension ,some shockwaves from PS would be enough to eradicate nearly all naruto's clones ,naruto's clones haven't the feat to evade fast wide attack like that

Naruto's clones chakra arms has no feats in hell to destroy PS ,even the real naruto hasn't that feats ,don't tell me that his chakra arms was standing against kaguya's ,if that was true ,then naruto's kiuybi avatar arm should have eliminated sasuke's PS out of the planet ,alright?

Kakashi isn't stupid to warp naruto's clones to the other dimension either .

About naruto's maintaing his attacks for 5 mins ,that all comes after destroying ps which wont be easy in anyway ,naruto hasn't an attack that can maintain for five minutes ,the explosion of any of naruto's attacks lasts for some seconds at most , if you mean naruto will keep firing his attacks at kakashi for five minutes ,that seems ridiculous ,naruto would lose his chakra before that ,naruto would need to fire at least 30 continues attack to do that ,not to mention kakashi can just get out of naruto's attacks range while he is intangible ,then he can summon PS again

Do you disagree with anything else in my main post? I even added scansLol

 

[Bogard]

Naruto stomps him but i think he has his chances against Sasuke, although he'd still lose especially if we talk about Biju Powered up Sasuke

 

[Beans2]

He didn't blitz kaguya ,it was just a clash which kakashi survived thanks to his intangibility but it is still one of the best feats in the manga as he easily reacted physically to powered up kaguya and perceived her movements


Naruto: this fight can go either way high diff


-All naruto attacks (RS variants,TTBRS [

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][

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]) are countered easily by kamui shrukens[

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] ,of course these attacks has enough power to destroy PS but it won't hit it in the first place ,once naruto throws these attacks towards kakashi PS ,kakashi will throw some kamui shrukens towards them ,once naruto's attacks clash with kamui shurukins ,they would get warped to the other dimension .


-Naruto's multiple clones without avatars has no enough durability to stand against PS shokewaves ,seeing how all naruto's clones vanished once they hit the ground when kaguya sent them to gravity dimension [

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]and seeing how non enhanced ems madara's PS shokewaves were cutting several mountains kms away [

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-Naruto's ashura avatar has great durability and great fire power[

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],but these fire power gets counted by kamui shrukens as explained above ,the durability means nothing when it comes to kamui ,kamui snipe rips the avatar's head with almost ease ,and this avatar has no speed to evade that ,alright?
Not to mention that ,kakashi was able to warp the hachibi while being inside kuarma avatar who was overlapping his tails to defend against jiubi's lazer[

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],that means kamui snipe can bypass transparent avatars which means kakashi can aim at naruto with kamui snipe without having to make a hole in the avatar


- naruto isn't blitzing some one who easily reacted physically to powered up kaguya and perceived her movements [

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],someone who can be intangible in an instant ,kakashi can even counter attack any blitz attempts by kamui raiki just like how he did with kaguya but it would be even worse to naruto


-Rikudo enhanced DMS kamui snipe was proved to be easily faster than RSM naruto's top flight speed when naruto was struggling to enter kaguya's portal before it closed yet he failed ,on the other hand obito was able to teleport himself,sakura and naruto's clone before the portal closed
Read this thread carefully ,please

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- even if naruto was standing on the ground( which most likely won't happen considering that he needs to fly to fight against kakashi's flying PS) ,but even in this case ,naruto isn't evading enhanced kamui snipe seeing how he couldn't evade sasuke's attack with his s/t [

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]yes sasuke's s/t is instant unlike kamui warping ,but don't forget that sasuke's appearing behind naruto was instant but his arm movements was far below instant

So naruto couldn't evade sasuke's attack which consists of instant appearing +sasuke 's arm movements
Now ,let's see from what kamui snipe consists , when kakashi uses kamui snipe on a target ,firstly the kamui barrier appears instantly on the target ,then this barrier warps the target to the other dimension
So kamui snipe consists of kamui's barrier 's instant appearing + the warping's speed
So if the kamui's warping is faster than or even as fast as sasuke's arm movements ,naruto won't be able to evade the instant appearing of kamui's barrier followed by kamui warping just like he couldn't evade the instant appearing of sasuke followed by sasuke's chidori attack

unfortunately ,kamui's warping was proved to be easily faster than sasuke's arm movements ,and that is when kakashi warped kaguya's portal and Ashe bone faster than naruto's arm moved 1 cm .[

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]

So naruto isn't evading kamui snipe whether he was flying or standing on the ground
Sompe people think that naruto and his clones can easily evade DMS kakashi's kamui though it was proved the opposite in the manga ,but the denial is so strong with these people

Did I miss anything?

Well...you tried.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Naruto stomps him but i think he has his chances against Sasuke, although he'd still lose especially if we talk about Biju Powered up Sasuke

Actually wael reda makes a good argument.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

As I said in my main post ,naruto's clones's durability isn't that good ,seeing how all naruto's clones vanished once they hit the ground when kaguya sent them to the gravity dimension ,some shockwaves from PS would be enough to eradicate nearly all naruto's clones ,naruto's clones haven't the feat to evade fast wide attack like that

Naruto's clones chakra arms has no feats in hell to destroy PS ,even the real naruto hasn't that feats ,don't tell me that his chakra arms was standing against kaguya's ,if that was true ,then naruto's kiuybi avatar arm should have eliminated sasuke's PS out of the planet ,alright?

Kakashi isn't stupid to warp naruto's clones to the other dimension either .

About naruto's maintaing his attacks for 5 mins ,that all comes after destroying ps which wont be easy in anyway ,naruto hasn't an attack that can maintain for five minutes ,the explosion of any of naruto's attacks lasts for some seconds at most , if you mean naruto will keep firing his attacks at kakashi for five minutes ,that seems ridiculous ,naruto would lose his chakra before that ,naruto would need to fire at least 30 continues attack to do that ,not to mention kakashi can just get out of naruto's attacks range while he is intangible ,then he can summon PS again

Do you disagree with anything else in my main post? I even added scansLol

Naruto by powering his chakra to the max over powered kaguya's chakra fists and sent her flying. So yes. He can bust open ps casually.
I'm aware kakashi won't warp clones but seeing has how kamui shuriken work he might do it unintentionally.

Naruto can hold a tbb on kakashi's body for 5 minutes. He can make its charged size bigger than kakashi's body and continuously charge it without letting it explode.

In his fight vs sasuke he held back and was out of the tailed beasts chakra(as sasuke duly noted) not to mention wasting 6 of his 9 tsb's. There's a lot of reasons why Naruto didn't flat out stomp sasuke.

 

[Bogard]

Actually wael reda makes a good argument.

I honestly didn't even try to read all the BS he typed and i don't want to because it's painful obvious Kakashi doesn't stand a chance against Naruto

 

[QdonEms]

Sasuke wins neg diff via rinnegan genjutsu followed by rinneblitz before kakashi even has time to pull out PS.Naruto wins via bijuu avatar and clones.

The last naruto and sasuke are a different story...Naruto has gotten weaker so he probably loses or wins extreme diff. Sasuke negs with kirin chidori.

 

[BlacLord™]

Kakashi never blitzed Kaguya, claiming that he did that is just absurd,
especially when

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, meaning that she reacted to him
yet for some unknown reason she didnt resort to dodging it, so it was most likely CIS

You've just contradicted yourself.

If Kaguya saw him coming but didn't dodge, it means she didn't react because she couldn't, in others words, she was blitzed. The only thing that held Kakashi back ever was lack of raw power to back his incredible battle instincts.

As if you didn't know, reacting and dodging are two different things. A person may react to an attack but that does not mean they can dodge it. Anyway, I digress.

It's not that Naruto and Sasuke are above DMS Kakashi, it's that they can outlast him quite easily considering it only lasts a few minutes. Whilst it's running though, they are going to have a very difficult time. Once DMS runs out, he's vulnerable and is pushed down a few tiers.

 

[Bogard]

I don't even think the question mark on Kaguya was supposed to represent the fact she was seeing Kakashi moving. I think it was just meant to represent her surprise over the fact Kakashi survived her attack with the phasing ability

 

[ARGUS]

yet she couldn't dodge. Simple as that.

Yet she reacted, so she wasnt blitzed, simple as that
just because someone didnt dodge something =/= someone getting blitzed,

she didn't have the means tho.

Why didnt she?
She physicallly evaded even Amenotejikara, which is faster than Kamui Raikiri,
and she can instantly use Yomutsu Hirasaka to teleport herself, the moment she saw kakashi coming,
so yeah, she did have the means

the only way she can teleport herself and herself alone is through portals.
If. She shift the entire area everyone is coming with her.
It happened for lava, gravity, ice, and genisis.

In any and all of those situations. Kamui would phase through the ice/lava/acid that she could use to protect herself, and still hit her.
If she left through portal it would just get kamui'd.

Really and truly she couldn't escape, but I'm guessing you're not gauging how fast he came down on her. His susanno was flying downward at the time then he used said ps as a spring to further increase his speed.

Even if this all is true,
at the end of the day she wasnt blitzed, which was my main problem with ur post,
she saw kakashi coming, meaning that she reacted, its as simple as that,
so claiming that she was blitzed is wrong

You've just contradicted yourself.

If Kaguya saw him coming but didn't dodge, it means she didn't react because she couldn't, in others words, she was blitzed. The only thing that held Kakashi back ever was lack of raw power to back his incredible battle instincts.

Do you even know what getting blitzed means?
it means that the person was unable to react,
Kaguya reacted, meaning that she wasnt blitzed, its as simple as that,

she may not have the means to evade the attack (which i think is false), however she wasnt blitzed,

As if you didn't know, reacting and dodging are two different things. A person may react to an attack but that does not mean they can dodge it. Anyway, I digress.

and you have completely contradicted your entire post here

It's not that Naruto and Sasuke are above DMS Kakashi,

No, they are a tier above him,

it's that they can outlast him quite easily considering it only lasts a few minutes. Whilst it's running though, they are going to have a very difficult time. Once DMS runs out, he's vulnerable and is pushed down a few tiers.

Nah, they dont need to outlast him, when they outclass him completely, even if you give him a very long DMS,
BPS >>>>> PS, so Kakashi gets wrecked there,, and Amenotejikara and Rinnegan Genjutsu then take care of him,
Ashura Avatar BDRS and Biijuu RS >>>>>>> PS and Multiple Shadow Clones, RSM Shunshin >>> Kamui,
so naruto wrecks him

 

[Conspirator.]

Naruto and Sasuke are far above DMS Kakashi for the reasons that Kifflom said.

 

[wael reda]

Naruto by powering his chakra to the max over powered kaguya's chakra fists and sent her flying. So yes. He can bust open ps casually.
I'm aware kakashi won't warp clones but seeing has how kamui shuriken work he might do it unintentionally.

Naruto can hold a tbb on kakashi's body for 5 minutes. He can make its charged size bigger than kakashi's body and continuously charge it without letting it explode.

In his fight vs sasuke he held back and was out of the tailed beasts chakra(as sasuke duly noted) not to mention wasting 6 of his 9 tsb's. There's a lot of reasons why Naruto didn't flat out stomp sasuke.

OKey but normal chakra arms can't though 5 tails chakra empowered kick can but to do so he needs to kick the PS directly ,kakashi can perceive flying naruto(like how he percieved powered up kaguya and attack him with PS slash ,naruto will need to cancel the attack to defend himself with kiuybi avatar ,alrigh!?

Kakashi would just save the kamui shurukins to warp naruto's long range attacks

About naruto holding a ttb on intangible kakashi for five minutes ,firstly ,naruto never holded his ttb for five minutesLol ,secondly ,even if we assumed that he can hold it all this time ,kakashi can just get out of the ttb range ,if naruto followed him ,kakashi can just slip through the ground and get out where naruto isn't there ,or kakashi can simply attack naruto with kamui raikeri while he is intangible

 

[wael reda]

Actually wael reda makes a good argument.

Thanks bro

 

[Ken Masters]

dms kakashi is confirmed above sasky but nardo is different because he can spam clones

although kakashi can still defeat nardo seeing this,

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