Can someone please provide me some valid reasons why VOTE 2 Sasuke and Naruto are above him? I need to explain a friend that right now. He faps to the "Kakashi blitzling Kaguya" moment and claims that he'd do the same to them in a one on one.
[VS] DMS Kakashi
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super yang
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Seventh Sama
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Kinda off topic but im still a bit confused with the blitzing thing. Was she charging at him or was she just standing there?
Kakashi never blitzed Kaguya, claiming that he did that is just absurd,
especially when
yet for some unknown reason she didnt resort to dodging it, so it was most likely CIS
as for your question, its pretty obvious that kakashi gets raped here is why;
Naruto: he beats him low diff
--BDRS and Bijuu RS obliterate kakashis PS to nothing, whilst kamui shurikens are dodged with utmost ease, or simply outclassed through narutos own projectiles,
--Once PS is fodderised, naruto rapes him with several RSM clones, with each of them having the speed to laugh at kamui, and also blitz kakashi, as he gets slammed down by a rasengan or just flat out massacred
--Ashura Avatar is not even needed to rape kakashi here,, thats just overkill
Sasuke: he beats him low/mid diff
--BPS obliterates kakashis PS with only a single Indras Arrow, its far far above kakashis PS, as its speed alone would allow it to ragdoll kakashis PS and smack it around till its busted,
--Once PS is busted, sasuke closes the distance against kakashi and blitzes him with amenotejikara and severs him in half
--Rinnegan Genjutsu is also not being broken by an MS user here, it'll be the same case as tsukuyomi vs 3T sharingan which kakashi obviously couldnt break, as genjutsu from the superior dojutsu is taking kakashi out, and allowing sasuke to kill him with ningendo
especially when
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, meaning that she reacted to him yet for some unknown reason she didnt resort to dodging it, so it was most likely CIS
as for your question, its pretty obvious that kakashi gets raped here is why;
Naruto: he beats him low diff
--BDRS and Bijuu RS obliterate kakashis PS to nothing, whilst kamui shurikens are dodged with utmost ease, or simply outclassed through narutos own projectiles,
--Once PS is fodderised, naruto rapes him with several RSM clones, with each of them having the speed to laugh at kamui, and also blitz kakashi, as he gets slammed down by a rasengan or just flat out massacred
--Ashura Avatar is not even needed to rape kakashi here,, thats just overkill
Sasuke: he beats him low/mid diff
--BPS obliterates kakashis PS with only a single Indras Arrow, its far far above kakashis PS, as its speed alone would allow it to ragdoll kakashis PS and smack it around till its busted,
--Once PS is busted, sasuke closes the distance against kakashi and blitzes him with amenotejikara and severs him in half
--Rinnegan Genjutsu is also not being broken by an MS user here, it'll be the same case as tsukuyomi vs 3T sharingan which kakashi obviously couldnt break, as genjutsu from the superior dojutsu is taking kakashi out, and allowing sasuke to kill him with ningendo
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BenjerminGaye
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Naruto stomps comfortably. Mass shadow clones is perfect counter for Kamui snipe.
But without bijuu sasuke isn't winning.
@Kifflom. He blitzed her. A being capable of flight she posseses nigh infinite directions to dodge. It's not that she didn't. But she couldnt.
But without bijuu sasuke isn't winning.
@Kifflom. He blitzed her. A being capable of flight she posseses nigh infinite directions to dodge. It's not that she didn't. But she couldnt.
He didn't blitz kaguya ,it was just a clash which kakashi survived thanks to his intangibility but it is still one of the best feats in the manga as he easily reacted physically to powered up kaguya and perceived her movements
Naruto: this fight can go either way high diff
-All naruto attacks (RS variants,TTBRS [
-Naruto's multiple clones without avatars has no enough durability to stand against PS shokewaves ,seeing how all naruto's clones vanished once they hit the ground when kaguya sent them to gravity dimension [
-Naruto's ashura avatar has great durability and great fire power[
Not to mention that ,kakashi was able to warp the hachibi while being inside kuarma avatar who was overlapping his tails to defend against jiubi's lazer[
- naruto isn't blitzing some one who easily reacted physically to powered up kaguya and perceived her movements [
-Rikudo enhanced DMS kamui snipe was proved to be easily faster than RSM naruto's top flight speed when naruto was struggling to enter kaguya's portal before it closed yet he failed ,on the other hand obito was able to teleport himself,sakura and naruto's clone before the portal closed
Read this thread carefully ,please
- even if naruto was standing on the ground( which most likely won't happen considering that he needs to fly to fight against kakashi's flying PS) ,but even in this case ,naruto isn't evading enhanced kamui snipe seeing how he couldn't evade sasuke's attack with his s/t [
So naruto couldn't evade sasuke's attack which consists of instant appearing +sasuke 's arm movements
Now ,let's see from what kamui snipe consists , when kakashi uses kamui snipe on a target ,firstly the kamui barrier appears instantly on the target ,then this barrier warps the target to the other dimension
So kamui snipe consists of kamui's barrier 's instant appearing + the warping's speed
So if the kamui's warping is faster than or even as fast as sasuke's arm movements ,naruto won't be able to evade the instant appearing of kamui's barrier followed by kamui warping just like he couldn't evade the instant appearing of sasuke followed by sasuke's chidori attack
unfortunately ,kamui's warping was proved to be easily faster than sasuke's arm movements ,and that is when kakashi warped kaguya's portal and Ashe bone faster than naruto's arm moved 1 cm .[
So naruto isn't evading kamui snipe whether he was flying or standing on the ground
Sompe people think that naruto and his clones can easily evade DMS kakashi's kamui though it was proved the opposite in the manga ,but the denial is so strong with these people
Did I miss anything?
Naruto: this fight can go either way high diff
-All naruto attacks (RS variants,TTBRS [
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][
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]) are countered easily by kamui shrukens[
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] ,of course these attacks has enough power to destroy PS but it won't hit it in the first place ,once naruto throws these attacks towards kakashi PS ,kakashi will throw some kamui shrukens towards them ,once naruto's attacks clash with kamui shurukins ,they would get warped to the other dimension .-Naruto's multiple clones without avatars has no enough durability to stand against PS shokewaves ,seeing how all naruto's clones vanished once they hit the ground when kaguya sent them to gravity dimension [
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]and seeing how non enhanced ems madara's PS shokewaves were cutting several mountains kms away [
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][
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]-Naruto's ashura avatar has great durability and great fire power[
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],but these fire power gets counted by kamui shrukens as explained above ,the durability means nothing when it comes to kamui ,kamui snipe rips the avatar's head with almost ease ,and this avatar has no speed to evade that ,alright?Not to mention that ,kakashi was able to warp the hachibi while being inside kuarma avatar who was overlapping his tails to defend against jiubi's lazer[
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],that means kamui snipe can bypass transparent avatars which means kakashi can aim at naruto with kamui snipe without having to make a hole in the avatar - naruto isn't blitzing some one who easily reacted physically to powered up kaguya and perceived her movements [
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],someone who can be intangible in an instant ,kakashi can even counter attack any blitz attempts by kamui raiki just like how he did with kaguya but it would be even worse to naruto -Rikudo enhanced DMS kamui snipe was proved to be easily faster than RSM naruto's top flight speed when naruto was struggling to enter kaguya's portal before it closed yet he failed ,on the other hand obito was able to teleport himself,sakura and naruto's clone before the portal closed
Read this thread carefully ,please
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- even if naruto was standing on the ground( which most likely won't happen considering that he needs to fly to fight against kakashi's flying PS) ,but even in this case ,naruto isn't evading enhanced kamui snipe seeing how he couldn't evade sasuke's attack with his s/t [
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]yes sasuke's s/t is instant unlike kamui warping ,but don't forget that sasuke's appearing behind naruto was instant but his arm movements was far below instant So naruto couldn't evade sasuke's attack which consists of instant appearing +sasuke 's arm movements
Now ,let's see from what kamui snipe consists , when kakashi uses kamui snipe on a target ,firstly the kamui barrier appears instantly on the target ,then this barrier warps the target to the other dimension
So kamui snipe consists of kamui's barrier 's instant appearing + the warping's speed
So if the kamui's warping is faster than or even as fast as sasuke's arm movements ,naruto won't be able to evade the instant appearing of kamui's barrier followed by kamui warping just like he couldn't evade the instant appearing of sasuke followed by sasuke's chidori attack
unfortunately ,kamui's warping was proved to be easily faster than sasuke's arm movements ,and that is when kakashi warped kaguya's portal and Ashe bone faster than naruto's arm moved 1 cm .[
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]So naruto isn't evading kamui snipe whether he was flying or standing on the ground
Sompe people think that naruto and his clones can easily evade DMS kakashi's kamui though it was proved the opposite in the manga ,but the denial is so strong with these people
Did I miss anything?
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KidGamer65
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KidGamer65
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KidGamer65
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For first, their entire fire-power will be useless in front of Kamui's intangibility, so no mentioning of RBM and PS. It will come down to CQC, in which Kakashi wins for valid reasons.
Naruto and his clones were all eradicated one by one by Kaguya. [
Whereas Kakashi outright blitzed Kaguya plain and simple. She had her Rinne Sharingan activated, which should grant her better reading movements than Choku Tomoe; her Byakugan was also activated. None of them helped her physically react to Kakashi. Not to mention the gravity would slow down Kakashi as he was on the air. Naruto and Sasuke wouldn't have won if it weren't for Kakashi.
If you think otherwise, I feel sorry for you and how you hit your head.
Naruto and his clones were all eradicated one by one by Kaguya. [
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] And I do not need to mention just how inexperienced Kaguya is in close combat, as she was never a warrior but princess. And Sasuke? How many times had been outclassed by Kaguya in reflex, speed? Every time he teleports and tries to take her out, he fails. Whereas Kakashi outright blitzed Kaguya plain and simple. She had her Rinne Sharingan activated, which should grant her better reading movements than Choku Tomoe; her Byakugan was also activated. None of them helped her physically react to Kakashi. Not to mention the gravity would slow down Kakashi as he was on the air. Naruto and Sasuke wouldn't have won if it weren't for Kakashi.
If you think otherwise, I feel sorry for you and how you hit your head.
King Of Pop
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both stomp.
hes ps is garbage near sasukes bijju ps, kamui shuriken are laughably evaded or sasuke can counter with senbons if he wishes. eventually sasuke blizes with ame like he did to narutos avatar and then cuts and shatters the ps apart with hes slashes. after that all thats left is to time hes attack once kakashi becomes tangible which he can easily do with amenotejikara. if kakashi resorts to warping sasukes ps, rather than evade with amenotejikara sasuke instead quickly uses it to counter attack and bliz him.
he can put up a fight against sasuke without the bijjus, still loses that.
for naruto, clones easily offsets kakashi, he warps a clone it spells bad news, narutos reflexes and speed are far above him, so eventually kakashi gets picked apart when he becomes tangible. dont think naruto even needs hes avatar tbh.
hes ps is garbage near sasukes bijju ps, kamui shuriken are laughably evaded or sasuke can counter with senbons if he wishes. eventually sasuke blizes with ame like he did to narutos avatar and then cuts and shatters the ps apart with hes slashes. after that all thats left is to time hes attack once kakashi becomes tangible which he can easily do with amenotejikara. if kakashi resorts to warping sasukes ps, rather than evade with amenotejikara sasuke instead quickly uses it to counter attack and bliz him.
he can put up a fight against sasuke without the bijjus, still loses that.
for naruto, clones easily offsets kakashi, he warps a clone it spells bad news, narutos reflexes and speed are far above him, so eventually kakashi gets picked apart when he becomes tangible. dont think naruto even needs hes avatar tbh.
EliteKakashi
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Kakashi was undoubtedly key in defeating Kaguya, but him standing on par with Naruto and Sasuke is pushing it even with the dual mangekyo.
Kakashi was able to "hurt" and help defeat Kaguya because he's a much smarter tactician than Kaguya. He's the greatest tactician in the manga, bar none. Each member of Team 7 played their own role in that fight. Naruto and Sasuke started out trying to beat her with their sheer strength and couldn't do it. They needed Kakashi's intelligence and Sakura's physical strength/support in medical jutsu. Now obviously Kakashi is ridiculously OP with double kamui(he's OP enough as it is compared to most with just a single one), but strength was not his purpose/role in the fight. Because no matter how hard he hit Kaguya/what he hit her with, it would have been meaningless in the long run as he possessed no ability to seal her.
He developed the strategy to outsmart her and distract her long enough for Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura to do their part. The manga made their roles quite clear down the stretch. Kakashi is 2nd tier to Naruto and Sasuke. The students surpassed their master.
Kishi even goes his own way of pointing out how Kakashi's strength is no longer useful in their fight.
Admitting his strength is of no use vs Kaguya's power(granted this was in regards to a single one of Kaguya's techniques, but it's a way of saying she possesses abilities out of his league):
Showing the use he does have left in helping defeat Kaguya:
Pointing out that Kaguya "couldn't"(although, it's simply the fact that she just chose not to) avoid the raikiri is a mistake. She had no reason to, Kakashi poses no real threat to her in terms of killing her. Kakashi's purpose wasn't even to really hurt her so much as it was to throw her off her game, and again, distract her. His attacks that he used vs Kaguya didn't hurt her, they inconvenienced her, which was his entire point, as again, he knew he stood no real chance against her.
If people want to praise Kakashi for his role in this fight, using the strength he showed off with double kamui is not the way of going about it. While that's cool to look at, it's ultimately useless vs Kaguya. What shined in this fight for Kakashi was his intelligence.
HIS plan is the plan that destroyed Kaguya. His intelligence was his contribution to saving the Naruto world. Head strong Naruto and stubborn Sasuke who thinks he's better than everyone at everything knew to stop and listen to what Kakashi had to say, and to follow his plan. Again, the final few chapters showcased what is so great about Kakashi. He's the greatest tactician the manga has shown us, Kishi tried his hardest to hammer that point home in the final chapters, but sadly the majority of Naruto manga fans are only capable of looking at the shiny attacks they use and fail to recognize other contributions the fights, even when the Rikudou Sennin himself points it out:
Kakashi was able to "hurt" and help defeat Kaguya because he's a much smarter tactician than Kaguya. He's the greatest tactician in the manga, bar none. Each member of Team 7 played their own role in that fight. Naruto and Sasuke started out trying to beat her with their sheer strength and couldn't do it. They needed Kakashi's intelligence and Sakura's physical strength/support in medical jutsu. Now obviously Kakashi is ridiculously OP with double kamui(he's OP enough as it is compared to most with just a single one), but strength was not his purpose/role in the fight. Because no matter how hard he hit Kaguya/what he hit her with, it would have been meaningless in the long run as he possessed no ability to seal her.
He developed the strategy to outsmart her and distract her long enough for Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura to do their part. The manga made their roles quite clear down the stretch. Kakashi is 2nd tier to Naruto and Sasuke. The students surpassed their master.
Kishi even goes his own way of pointing out how Kakashi's strength is no longer useful in their fight.
Admitting his strength is of no use vs Kaguya's power(granted this was in regards to a single one of Kaguya's techniques, but it's a way of saying she possesses abilities out of his league):
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Showing the use he does have left in helping defeat Kaguya:
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Pointing out that Kaguya "couldn't"(although, it's simply the fact that she just chose not to) avoid the raikiri is a mistake. She had no reason to, Kakashi poses no real threat to her in terms of killing her. Kakashi's purpose wasn't even to really hurt her so much as it was to throw her off her game, and again, distract her. His attacks that he used vs Kaguya didn't hurt her, they inconvenienced her, which was his entire point, as again, he knew he stood no real chance against her.
If people want to praise Kakashi for his role in this fight, using the strength he showed off with double kamui is not the way of going about it. While that's cool to look at, it's ultimately useless vs Kaguya. What shined in this fight for Kakashi was his intelligence.
HIS plan is the plan that destroyed Kaguya. His intelligence was his contribution to saving the Naruto world. Head strong Naruto and stubborn Sasuke who thinks he's better than everyone at everything knew to stop and listen to what Kakashi had to say, and to follow his plan. Again, the final few chapters showcased what is so great about Kakashi. He's the greatest tactician the manga has shown us, Kishi tried his hardest to hammer that point home in the final chapters, but sadly the majority of Naruto manga fans are only capable of looking at the shiny attacks they use and fail to recognize other contributions the fights, even when the Rikudou Sennin himself points it out:
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No he didnt,
Kaguya clearly saw him coming well before he actually landed his kamui raikiri
indicating that she reacted to him, meaning that it wasnt a blitz,
Notice the bottom panel
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or she couldve just instantly used Amenominaka to evade kamui raikiri, yet she didnt despite the fact that reacted to him well before he even landed his attack
so at the end of the day it was just plot and CIS
BenjerminGaye
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Her seeing him coming is what makes it so bad. She saw him and attacked first yet still got hit.
Using Amenominaka is pointless since he'd change location with her and phase through whatever defense she'll set up(ice acid etc)
Calling it plot is rather weak. Everything in the manga is plot.