[Discussion] The Reason Naruto as a series was poorly executed.
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Yeah Naruto isn't flawless or anything, but I can't say it's poorly executed just because it focused on things people didn't want it to focus on(like Sasuke and the Uchiha) or just because it mishandled some female characters and whatnot.
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LoZelda101
Active member
1. Kishi ran out of copying other good source material for crap ones. It's no wonder uchiha clan theme went from strong to overused toilet paper material
2.
Kishi's editors influenced alot of this manga pacing and plot choices for the better (pt1) and the worst (war arc)
3. The guy clearly was no oda, while ill admit that shorter series with less attention to the far future of the series means he can focus more and improve current events but the con is that his lack of long term focus is why this series is constantly fluctuating inconsistency and asspulls at rapid rates.
4. His dumb rushed and supposed "mandatory deadline" need to end it at chptr 700 destroyed what could've been a decent arc with a better ending. Plus sasuke's revolution plan could've been more fleshed out. I can tell where kishi was going with it but it was butchered trying to compress it in 1 chptr therefore rubs off worst on sasuke than it needed to be. Same with sasusaku that also wasn't fortunate enough to have movie.
5. This is subjective from here on out (if it weren't already) but Naruto should've stopped at bm (no avatar) maybe even kcm. The whole befriending kurama crap is awful and ruins both naruto and kyuubis lore. Lmao @ chibi kurama. Sasuke obviously needed to stay at MS but without plot nerfing him to convenient blindness of an two-day usage. That way in vote2 they're both strong enough to rekt but weak enough to not require crazy nerfs unlike their six paths counterpart.
6. Madara was the best fanservice but also what killed the war arc by requiring everyone to go dbz lvl just to compete with him then to make matters worst kishi the poor writer can't find any believable out to defeat madara (reference point #3) has no other choice but to keep making stronger and stronger villains with more convenient weaknesses which I'm sure many know about by now.
7. Lmao with sasuke/itachi/naruto gary stu excuse. If you want to get technical then kakashi's kamui is the gary stu. You just don't see it cause it hide behind that clever quote on quote "stamina" meanwhile he spams it till late war arc while sasuke goes blind in one bad day
Literally solved everything to the point kishi had to hold him back to let others solve or create problems. If itachi is one then it pales to kakashi besides ehatever happen to non uchihas could barely handle sharingan. Oh wait..kishi abandon his own rule and said screw it, with mangekyou as a bonus.
8. Emotional uchiha go crazy when they love was to justify obito and madara shit villain- backstory. Itachi and pt1-hebi sasuke debunks that retarded lore. And no... I'm not going to buy evil GKS sasuke as some result of his genes. What he did was perfectly believable for someone especially in a 3rd gen shinobi ruled era (diplomatic but still easily prone to violent solutions) who kept his emotional state compressed over his family genocide then have it disrupted when that past was revealed to suddenly go 180 of what he believed in his whole life which led to his mental breakdown then being able to vent all its rage on danzo like a victim would do to someone who essentially raped their innocence. I'm sure someone will say that was no different than obito but difference is sasuke build up to that point of corruption. Obito just switched which is so unrealistic especially since he was just a clone of naruto who would never betray anyone let alone into homicidal killer that even gaara couldn't compare to without inner conflictions. Meanwhile obito is like f*ck it, get minato and kill his preggo wife then terrorise village for allah old man madara that i know little about.
9. Neji is right and his war arc death was not needed. If he needed to die, it was during the s4 arc which was the perfect moment for him and choji to go out like a badass instead of becoming a semi-fodder joke in pt2.
10. Kishi the sellout and boruto manga-ikemoto's fap edition.
Rant over.
Bonus: not confirmed or any proof but i believe all the crazy upgrade powers that people got every 10 chapters or so in the war arc was to help sell naruto games which literally depended on new rosters to milk pointless titles with little story progression. And yes cc2 and kishi have a very close relationship. If not then maybe I'm still blinded by butthurt that edo minato stole naruto's hard earned uniqueness of kurama mode and perfect sagemode and devalues naruto's accomplishments. Also didn't like the idea of everyone having susanoo because it was lazy plot armour tank. I think itachi should've been exclusive susanoo since he would die anyway and that if sasuke required one it'll be through ems. As for madara, give limbo to his sharingan. He could've used that to fake his death. Much better than some delayed izanagi activation that's also as crazy as obito sleep phasing through boulder. (btw kishi completely ruined kakashi gaiden which i once considered one of the best MC development arc)
2.
Kishi's editors influenced alot of this manga pacing and plot choices for the better (pt1) and the worst (war arc)
3. The guy clearly was no oda, while ill admit that shorter series with less attention to the far future of the series means he can focus more and improve current events but the con is that his lack of long term focus is why this series is constantly fluctuating inconsistency and asspulls at rapid rates.
4. His dumb rushed and supposed "mandatory deadline" need to end it at chptr 700 destroyed what could've been a decent arc with a better ending. Plus sasuke's revolution plan could've been more fleshed out. I can tell where kishi was going with it but it was butchered trying to compress it in 1 chptr therefore rubs off worst on sasuke than it needed to be. Same with sasusaku that also wasn't fortunate enough to have movie.
5. This is subjective from here on out (if it weren't already) but Naruto should've stopped at bm (no avatar) maybe even kcm. The whole befriending kurama crap is awful and ruins both naruto and kyuubis lore. Lmao @ chibi kurama. Sasuke obviously needed to stay at MS but without plot nerfing him to convenient blindness of an two-day usage. That way in vote2 they're both strong enough to rekt but weak enough to not require crazy nerfs unlike their six paths counterpart.
6. Madara was the best fanservice but also what killed the war arc by requiring everyone to go dbz lvl just to compete with him then to make matters worst kishi the poor writer can't find any believable out to defeat madara (reference point #3) has no other choice but to keep making stronger and stronger villains with more convenient weaknesses which I'm sure many know about by now.
7. Lmao with sasuke/itachi/naruto gary stu excuse. If you want to get technical then kakashi's kamui is the gary stu. You just don't see it cause it hide behind that clever quote on quote "stamina" meanwhile he spams it till late war arc while sasuke goes blind in one bad day
Literally solved everything to the point kishi had to hold him back to let others solve or create problems. If itachi is one then it pales to kakashi besides ehatever happen to non uchihas could barely handle sharingan. Oh wait..kishi abandon his own rule and said screw it, with mangekyou as a bonus. 8. Emotional uchiha go crazy when they love was to justify obito and madara shit villain- backstory. Itachi and pt1-hebi sasuke debunks that retarded lore. And no... I'm not going to buy evil GKS sasuke as some result of his genes. What he did was perfectly believable for someone especially in a 3rd gen shinobi ruled era (diplomatic but still easily prone to violent solutions) who kept his emotional state compressed over his family genocide then have it disrupted when that past was revealed to suddenly go 180 of what he believed in his whole life which led to his mental breakdown then being able to vent all its rage on danzo like a victim would do to someone who essentially raped their innocence. I'm sure someone will say that was no different than obito but difference is sasuke build up to that point of corruption. Obito just switched which is so unrealistic especially since he was just a clone of naruto who would never betray anyone let alone into homicidal killer that even gaara couldn't compare to without inner conflictions. Meanwhile obito is like f*ck it, get minato and kill his preggo wife then terrorise village for allah old man madara that i know little about.
9. Neji is right and his war arc death was not needed. If he needed to die, it was during the s4 arc which was the perfect moment for him and choji to go out like a badass instead of becoming a semi-fodder joke in pt2.
10. Kishi the sellout and boruto manga-ikemoto's fap edition.
Rant over.
Bonus: not confirmed or any proof but i believe all the crazy upgrade powers that people got every 10 chapters or so in the war arc was to help sell naruto games which literally depended on new rosters to milk pointless titles with little story progression. And yes cc2 and kishi have a very close relationship. If not then maybe I'm still blinded by butthurt that edo minato stole naruto's hard earned uniqueness of kurama mode and perfect sagemode and devalues naruto's accomplishments. Also didn't like the idea of everyone having susanoo because it was lazy plot armour tank. I think itachi should've been exclusive susanoo since he would die anyway and that if sasuke required one it'll be through ems. As for madara, give limbo to his sharingan. He could've used that to fake his death. Much better than some delayed izanagi activation that's also as crazy as obito sleep phasing through boulder. (btw kishi completely ruined kakashi gaiden which i once considered one of the best MC development arc)
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Disagreed on most accounts.
I agree, Part II (if you take the war-arc out, which is, narratively, a small arc that only lasts three days despite the bulk of the chapters) is vastly superior in regards to depth and complexity.
Whilst I disagree with some aspects, these are good points. Repped.1. Kishi ran out of copying other good source material for crap ones. It's no wonder uchiha clan theme went from strong to overused toilet paper material
2.
Kishi's editors influenced alot of this manga pacing and plot choices for the better (pt1) and the worst (war arc)
3. The guy clearly was no oda, while ill admit that shorter series with less attention to the far future of the series means he can focus more and improve current events but the con is that his lack of long term focus is why this series is constantly fluctuating inconsistency and asspulls at rapid rates.
4. His dumb rushed and supposed "mandatory deadline" need to end it at chptr 700 destroyed what could've been a decent arc with a better ending. Plus sasuke's revolution plan could've been more fleshed out. I can tell where kishi was going with it but it was butchered trying to compress it in 1 chptr therefore rubs off worst on sasuke than it needed to be. Same with sasusaku that also wasn't fortunate enough to have movie.
5. This is subjective from here on out (if it weren't already) but Naruto should've stopped at bm (no avatar) maybe even kcm. The whole befriending kurama crap is awful and ruins both naruto and kyuubis lore. Lmao @ chibi kurama. Sasuke obviously needed to stay at MS but without plot nerfing him to convenient blindness of an two-day usage. That way in vote2 they're both strong enough to rekt but weak enough to not require crazy nerfs unlike their six paths counterpart.
6. Madara was the best fanservice but also what killed the war arc by requiring everyone to go dbz lvl just to compete with him then to make matters worst kishi the poor writer can't find any believable out to defeat madara (reference point #2) has no other choice but to keep making stronger and stronger villains with more convenient weaknesses which I'm sure many know about by now.
7. Lmao with sasuke/itachi/naruto gary stu excuse. If you want to get technical then kakashi's kamui is the gary stu. You just don't see it cause it hide behind that clever quote on quote "stamina" meanwhile he spams it till late war arc while sasuke goes blind in one bad day
8. Emotional uchiha go crazy when they love was to justify obito and madara shit villain- backstory. Itachi and pt1-hebi sasuke debunks that retarded lore. And no... I'm not going to buy evil GKS sasuke as some result of his genes. What he did was perfectly believable for someone especially in a 3rd gen shinobi ruled era (diplomatic but still easily prone to violent solutions) who kept his emotional state compressed over his family genocide then have it disrupted when that past was revealed to suddenly go 180 of what he believed in his whole life which led to his mental breakdown then being able to vent all its rage on danzo like a victim would do to someone who essentially raped their innocence. I'm sure someone will say that was no different than obito but difference is sasuke build up to that point of corruption. Obito just switched which is so unrealistic especially since he was just a clone of naruto who would never betray anyone let alone into homicidal killer that even gaara couldn't compare to without inner conflictions. Meanwhile obito is like f*ck it, get minato and kill his preggo wife then terrorise village for allah old man madara that i know little about.
9. Neji is right and his war arc death was not needed. If he needed to die, it was during the s4 arc which was the perfect moment for him and choji to go out like a badass instead of becoming a semi-fodder joke in pt2.
10. Kishi the sellout and boruto manga-ikemoto's fap edition.
Rant over.
Bonus: not confirmed or any proof but i believe all the crazy upgrade powers that people got every 10 chapters or so in the war arc was to help sell naruto games which literally depended on new rosters to milk pointless titles with little story progression. And yes cc2 and kishi have a very close relationship. If not then maybe I'm still blinded by butthurt that edo minato stole naruto's hard earned uniqueness of kurama mode and perfect sagemode and devalues naruto's accomplishments. Also didn't like the idea of everyone having susanoo because it was lazy plot armour. I think itachi should've been exclusive susanoo and that if sasuke required one it'll be through ems. As for madara, give limbo to his sharingan. He could've used that to fake his death.
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Naruto X Hunter
Active member
Awards
Most of the things that the series focused on, it executed well. For example, Naruto, Sasuke, Lee, & Neji's development ( the latter two only in Part One), the concept of revenge, hatred, and war in Part Two.
The Uchiha's importance wasn't a problem. The side characters not getting enough screentime in Part Two was. If the Uchiha's roles/screentime was the exact same, but Neji, Lee, etc got the same focus they did in Part One, then there wouldn't be any complaints.
The problem was the balance, but for the most part, whatever Kishimoto decided to focus on, he did well.
How was Sasuke inconsistent and contrived?
The Uchiha's importance wasn't a problem. The side characters not getting enough screentime in Part Two was. If the Uchiha's roles/screentime was the exact same, but Neji, Lee, etc got the same focus they did in Part One, then there wouldn't be any complaints.
The problem was the balance, but for the most part, whatever Kishimoto decided to focus on, he did well.
How was Sasuke inconsistent and contrived?
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Darth AniCetuS
Active member
Awards
- Too much focus on the MCs
- Too much focus on the uchihas
- Naruto's obsession about bringing back Sasuke
- Sasuke after leaving the village wasn't fun anymore
- K11 was ignored to focus on the MCs
- Inconsistent asspull power ups
- Too much focus on the uchihas
- Naruto's obsession about bringing back Sasuke
- Sasuke after leaving the village wasn't fun anymore
- K11 was ignored to focus on the MCs
- Inconsistent asspull power ups