Did Kishi Lose Focus With The Manga?

[Char Aznable]

When Naruto started, it was about one boy's quest to become the top ninja in his village.


Somehow, a disproportionate amount of the manga and the main character's focus was dedicated to bringing a former comrade and ex-friend back to the village.

1. Which led to a lot of contrived bs to keep them apart.

2. Retcon connections between Naruto and Sasuke
~The clan feud. Where before, Naruto didn't have one.
~Reincarnation of Konoha Founder's feud
~Reincarnations of the sons SOT6P feud

3. Sasuke being beyond redemption but it's the 5 chapter battle and the half-assed pep talk that redeems him. I honestly would've preferred the cliche "power of love" redemption from Sakura. But no, the ambiguously gay duo connection between Naruto and Sasuke was what Kishi went for.
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Then you had Kishi's clumsy way of adding destiny and prophecy to the manga. First with the Toad Sage prophecies and later with the Black Zetsu was behind it all 11th hour reveal of everything since Indra and how Naruto was going to break the cycle.
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When the manga finally concluded, Kishi said the point was to deliver an anti-war message. This after 225 chapters of an over-inflated war arc that made the Uchiha out to be the sole bad guys and not the differing agendas of rival nations.
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Not to mention all the characters and unresolved story lines he left to twist in the wind and remain undefined.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Finally, we never actually see Naruto become Hokage in the 700 chapter manga. Kishi's mad dash to the end resulted in several appendices that expand on things he should've covered in the main story.

~The Day Naruto Became Hokage - Played for laughs
~ Naruto Gaiden - Troll SasuSaku and SasuKarin with a fake out baby mama story. Take that shit to Maury, Kishi.
~Boruto The Movie - *When we first read Chapter 700* Buy your tickets today for the next installment and see us milk the IP for all it's worth. $$$Cha-Ching$$$
~ Mitsuki Gaiden - The only thing I feel Kishi actually gave a shit about post-chapter 700.
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Did Kishi lose the point of what he was writing about?

 

[Sagebee]

For me I saw a big drop in quality in shippuden due to it being rushed and lack of character development. There might of been outside forces that caused that for kishi, but also it seems his heart wasn't in the series and seemed like he really wanted to get out to start his new project.

 

[SenseiSama]

I think K11 shouldn't have followed Naruto except for Neji and Sakura, I would have liked to see the rest try and fight Sasuke

 

[NextGenNinja]

Pretty much, he made the plot far more complicated than it needed to be. It's still being milked even today.

 

[rollin]

no
the destiny theme has been there since the beginning since naruto said he was going to become hokage
the last chapters were rushed because they made him finish the manga by 700

 

[Char Aznable]

no
the destiny theme has been there since the beginning since naruto said he was going to become hokage
the last chapters were rushed because they made him finish the manga by 700

Becoming a kage isn't a destiny though. It's a work in progress to a goal. Naruto didn't have to be destined to become Hokage, the same way Kakashi, Danzo, Tsunade, Minato, Hiruzen, Tobirama and Hashirama didn't. A powerful shinobi just had to be there and have support in the village. Remember, Oro and Jiraiya almost made Hokage at different points in their careers.

 

[Styles]

No ever since we knew what Sasuke was(chuunin exams) it was bound to happen. What you just described wasn't the only thing in that story. The story also revolved around Sasuke's clan history and his life.

 

[Char Aznable]

No ever since we knew what Sasuke was(chuunin exams) it was bound to happen. What you just described wasn't the only thing in that story. The story also revolved around Sasuke's clan history and his life.

While Naruto's clan history was retroactively included, and the details about the Senju and Uzumaki clans were thinly defined, compared to the multiple expanded histories we learned about the Uchiha and Elder Son, Indra.

 

[rollin]

Becoming a kage isn't a destiny though. It's a work in progress to a goal. Naruto didn't have to be destined to become Hokage, the same way Kakashi, Danzo, Tsunade, Minato, Hiruzen, Tobirama and Hashirama didn't. A powerful shinobi just had to be there and have support in the village. Remember, Oro and Jiraiya almost made Hokage at different points in their careers.

hokage means fire shadow
fire-yang;shadow-yin
yin and yang cooperating can achieve happiness
hashi yang;madara yin
hiruzen yang danzo yin
kakashi yang;obito yin
ashura yang;indra yin
naruto-yang;sasuke-yin.they actually cooperate together unlike the other ones
naruto being hokage is the same as bringing back sasuke and his destiny

 

[Vandenre1ch]

It completely lost focus right before the Paina rc. It focused on Sasuke & Naruto too much and was sponsored by Michael Bay. It wasn't a ninja manga anymore and turned into an a supernatural explosion fest.

1. Kishi admitted he forgot about Sakura
2. Tobi was Obito which made his reason for turning bad way too obvious
3. Obito was nothing but a pawn that got played which killed his character
4. The Shinobi Alliance relied too much on Naruto
5. Sasuke flip flopping back n forth
6. Everything about Kaguya
7. The Chosen One plot point erased all of the "working hard" messages Naruto had in Part 1 not to mention generic.
8. The title of Hokage became worthless and lost all impact & symbolic meaning. That title meant nothing after the manga ended.

 

[Styles]

While Naruto's clan history was retroactively included, and the details about the Senju and Uzumaki clans were thinly defined, compared to the multiple expanded histories we learned about the Uchiha and Elder Son, Indra.

His clan had no relevancy to the plot....other than the RDS and it's mask. Everything else was covered Uchiha senju Indra and Ashura. Everything that was nearly pivotal to the plot was said and done.

 

[Char Aznable]

hokage means fire shadow
fire-yang;shadow-yin
yin and yang cooperating can achieve happiness
hashi yang;madara yin
hiruzen yang danzo yin
kakashi yang;obito yin
ashura yang;indra yin
naruto-yang;sasuke-yin.they actually cooperate together unlike the other ones
naruto being hokage is the same as bringing back sasuke and his destiny

I think you put more thought into it than Kishi did. Besides, your yin and yang frame up doesn't match up with each character's perspectives. Nor does every of your match up invovle a success story (Uchiha Massacre, Madara defecting and attacking the village with Kurama, Ashura and Indra never got along after one was chosen to carry their father's legacy).

His clan had no relevancy to the plot....other than the RDS and it's mask. Everything else was covered Uchiha senju Indra and Ashura. Everything that was nearly pivotal to the plot was said and done.

You would think Naruto being descended from the Senju, the village being founded by the Senju, and Naruto possibly having familial ties to 3 of the previous Hokges, would constitute more focus on his journey and the role he hopes to attain. Instead, of Kishi making things up as he went along for the Senju and Uzumaki.

 

[Dantе]

For me I saw a big drop in quality in shippuden due to it being rushed and lack of character development. There might of been outside forces that caused that for kishi, but also it seems his heart wasn't in the series and seemed like he really wanted to get out to start his new project.

Kishi was just sad that he had to kill Itachi because he obviously put his heart in developing his character.

Itachi is easily the top 3 best developed characters in whole manga.

 

[Sagebee]

Kishi was just sad that he had to kill Itachi because he obviously put his heart in developing his character.

Itachi is easily the top 3 best developed characters in whole manga.

Your probably right after itachi died the series was over

 

[Uzumaki Death god]

The name of this thread can be changed to 'Things that ruined the Naruto manga' and would still be spot on

 

[Styles]

I think you put more thought into it than Kishi did. Besides, your yin and yang frame up doesn't match up with each character's perspectives. Nor does every of your match up invovle a success story (Uchiha Massacre, Madara defecting and attacking the village with Kurama, Ashura and Indra never got along after one was chosen to carry their father's legacy).


You would think Naruto being descended from the Senju, the village being founded by the Senju, and Naruto possibly having familial ties to 3 of the previous Hokges, would constitute more focus on his journey and the role he hopes to attain. Instead, of Kishi making things up as he went along for the Senju and Uzumaki.

Well the village was founded by Madara and Hashirama. And Naruto wasn't able to learn much of his family ties in part 1. He couldn't even know who his dad was until part 2. As the story went along Naruto was basically trying to get Sasuke back to prove to himself that he have what it takes to become hokage.

 

[Prince Badman]

When Naruto started, it was about one boy's quest to become the top ninja in his village.


Somehow, a disproportionate amount of the manga and the main character's focus was dedicated to bringing a former comrade and ex-friend back to the village.

1. Which led to a lot of contrived bs to keep them apart.

2. Retcon connections between Naruto and Sasuke
~The clan feud. Where before, Naruto didn't have one.
~Reincarnation of Konoha Founder's feud
~Reincarnations of the sons SOT6P feud

3. Sasuke being beyond redemption but it's the 5 chapter battle and the half-assed pep talk that redeems him. I honestly would've preferred the cliche "power of love" redemption from Sakura. But no, the ambiguously gay duo connection between Naruto and Sasuke was what Kishi went for.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then you had Kishi's clumsy way of adding destiny and prophecy to the manga. First with the Toad Sage prophecies and later with the Black Zetsu was behind it all 11th hour reveal of everything since Indra and how Naruto was going to break the cycle.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When the manga finally concluded, Kishi said the point was to deliver an anti-war message. This after 225 chapters of an over-inflated war arc that made the Uchiha out to be the sole bad guys and not the differing agendas of rival nations.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not to mention all the characters and unresolved story lines he left to twist in the wind and remain undefined.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Finally, we never actually see Naruto become Hokage in the 700 chapter manga. Kishi's mad dash to the end resulted in several appendices that expand on things he should've covered in the main story.

~The Day Naruto Became Hokage - Played for laughs
~ Naruto Gaiden - Troll SasuSaku and SasuKarin with a fake out baby mama story. Take that shit to Maury, Kishi.
~Boruto The Movie - *When we first read Chapter 700* Buy your tickets today for the next installment and see us milk the IP for all it's worth. $$$Cha-Ching$$$
~ Mitsuki Gaiden - The only thing I feel Kishi actually gave a shit about post-chapter 700.
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Did Kishi lose the point of what he was writing about?

hmmm you have made some very good points.....Kishi did went too far with Naruto-Sasuke friendship bs....i would have rather preferred a different ending then Sasuke turning goody two shoes after getting his ass handed to him...sorry but power of love cliche would actually have been worse...if they had given a redemption to Sasuke like they did to Nagato it would have been much better, it would have floated better but i guess Kishi didn't want to upset the Sasuke fans so he ended the manga like that....of course I would have liked if Madara was the final villain and no Kaguya shit have been put up. I liked how the story was poised till the war arc, but turning every freaking villain into a hero bu TNJ just went too far...it simply destroyed Obito's character. I mean Itachi was unique and so was Orochi, turning Kabuto into Oro 2.0 wasn't that impressive. I think Kishi expanded a bit too much into various characters especially with edo-tensei shit and failed to compile effectively. He brought out all the big names but failed to impress and thus strayed from the original thought process.

 

[SilverfoxUchiha]

I think kishis marraige was suffering so he was just rushing it. I guess its kinda understandable. It doesnt take away from the amazing franchise: manga, anime, computer games, characters, fanbases, experience he provided for us.

But yeah.. i do agree with the points you made.

 

[shelke]

When Naruto started, it was about one boy's quest to become the top ninja in his village.

Somehow, a disproportionate amount of the manga and the main character's focus was dedicated to bringing a former comrade and ex-friend back to the village.

1. Which led to a lot of contrived bs to keep them apart.

2. Retcon connections between Naruto and Sasuke
~The clan feud. Where before, Naruto didn't have one.
~Reincarnation of Konoha Founder's feud
~Reincarnations of the sons SOT6P feud

3. Sasuke being beyond redemption but it's the 5 chapter battle and the half-assed pep talk that redeems him. I honestly would've preferred the cliche "power of love" redemption from Sakura. But no, the ambiguously gay duo connection between Naruto and Sasuke was what Kishi went for.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When the manga finally concluded, Kishi said the point was to deliver an anti-war message. This after 225 chapters of an over-inflated war arc that made the Uchiha out to be the sole bad guys and not the differing agendas of rival nations.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not to mention all the characters and unresolved story lines he left to twist in the wind and remain undefined.

Did Kishi lose the point of what he was writing about?

@BOLD How would that have worked? Sasuke never liked Sakura. He despised her to the point where he left her to burn to death in the lava dimension. SS literally makes no sense at all. That would have made the manga even worse. He went for the popular pairing as SS is the most liked pairing in Naruto-verse. But, he dragged it through mud (rightfully so) as it has no footing whatsoever.

The main problem with Naruto is its length. The story could have been easily clipped and pruned to maintain quality. This story doesn't need to find complete resolution for it to end. That is a misconception held by people who are into entertainment medium. It is not even remotely true.

I agree and disagree about "Uchihas being the sole bad guys" message. However, that is dependent upon interpretation of the reader. I do agree that the corruption of the villages was brushed under the rug. It could have been picked up from the summit and expanded upon accordingly, however, for some odd reason Kishimoto thought it to be unnecessary. This is probably Shounen and he was going to bite off more than he could chew, so he probably retreated.

Ootsutsuki can be attributed to the length argument as well. Sasuke's monologue, on the other hand, wrapped up the story decently. I wouldn't use the term "redemption" here as well; this concept has never made any sense to me. It's as if it's a set-in cliche that needs to be embraced for a story to end. It has made entertainment mediums almost unwatchable ...

What do you mean by contrived, though? As none of that is contrived.

 

[rollin]

I think you put more thought into it than Kishi did. Besides, your yin and yang frame up doesn't match up with each character's perspectives. Nor does every of your match up invovle a success story (Uchiha Massacre, Madara defecting and attacking the village with Kurama, Ashura and Indra never got along after one was chosen to carry their father's legacy).


You would think Naruto being descended from the Senju, the village being founded by the Senju, and Naruto possibly having familial ties to 3 of the previous Hokges, would constitute more focus on his journey and the role he hopes to attain. Instead, of Kishi making things up as he went along for the Senju and Uzumaki.

I didn't put that more thought than kishi did at all
The proof is kakashi having the left sharingan obito having the right since the beginning
And my yin/yang perspective does match up

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