Defining "Base"

[TrollingSage]

Ok, but even without Bijuu mode, Naruto's chakra is being augmented by Kurama all the time (one of the reasons he could learn Senjutsu at all), so we cannot even fathom a Base Naruto since all we know about him has been done with at least some Kurama's help

He could learn sen jutsu because of his hardwork and large chakra pool as a result of being an Uzumaki. Nothing to do with Kurama.
Also, Uchihas also have a natrually strong chakra that allows them to use powerful jutsus with minimal drain, but that still counts as base.

 

[Worm]

So are the gates, and not the Uchiha alone, every single shinobi is born with them, they just need to know how to open them.

Not true, the ability to unlock the gates isn't something people naturally possess, very few learn how to do it, it's not something you're born with like the Sharingan.

 

[Retsu]

So then consciousnes shouldn't be considered base.


Uhh no, Sharingan is something every Uchiha is born with, but they need to awaken it. It's natural, SM isn't.

No, they need to actively and consciously turn it on, that's not base, even more so since not every one is guaranteed to get it.

SM is natural energy so it is natural and is base going by your logic.

 

[MightGai]

He could learn sen jutsu because of his hardwork and large chakra pool as a result of being an Uzumaki. Nothing to do with Kurama.
Also, Uchihas also have a natrually strong chakra that allows them to use powerful jutsus with minimal drain, but that still counts as base.

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Fukasaku only says that you need a large pool of chakra, and up to that point of the manga the only reference to Naruto's high chakra pool was because of the Kyuubi, not his clan. Plus I recall that the Uzumaki's have a strong "life force", which does not necessarily means it's a large chakra pool.

EDIT: Also, when Ebisu and Kakashi told Naruto why he could create more clones than the rest even though his chakra manipulation wasn't the best:

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Sure, regular element manipulation jutsu, but it's insane not to count sharingan, among other things, as base.

Not true, the ability to unlock the gates isn't something people naturally possess, very few learn how to do it, it's not something you're born with like the Sharingan.

What is natural? Did Gai or Lee did something "unnatural" to unlock the gates? The gates exists on every single shinobi, and with due training they can at least open one gate (like kakashi), so what's unnatural about it?

 

[Worm]

No, they need to actively and consciously turn it on, that's not base, even more so since not every one is guaranteed to get it.

SM is natural energy so it is natural and is base going by your logic.

So then Kakashi actively and consciously turning chakra into a Raikiri, or Naruto actively and consciously creating a clone shouldn't count as base too.

 

[Retsu]

So then Kakashi actively and consciously turning chakra into a Raikiri, or Naruto actively and consciously creating a clone shouldn't count as base too.

get real, using a jutsu and activating sharingan are two different things.

 

[TrollingSage]

So then Kakashi actively and consciously turning chakra into a Raikiri, or Naruto actively and consciously creating a clone shouldn't count as base too.

Does Raikiri and shadow clones increase the user's stats? We're talking about jutsus that increases user's stats and have to be consciously activated

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Fukasaku only says that you need a large pool of chakra, and up to that point of the manga the only reference to Naruto's high chakra pool was because of the Kyuubi, not his clan. Plus I recall that the Uzumaki's have a strong "life force", which does not necessarily means it's a large chakra pool.

EDIT: Also, when Ebisu and Kakashi told Naruto why he could create more clones than the rest even though his chakra manipulation wasn't the best:

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Sure, regular element manipulation jutsu, but it's insane not to count sharingan, among other things, as base.



What is natural? Did Gai or Lee did something "unnatural" to unlock the gates? The gates exists on every single shinobi, and with due training they can at least open one gate (like kakashi), so what's unnatural about it?

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Naruto has atleast twice as much chakra as Kakashi. It's a fact that you need to have high amounts of chakra in order to become a jinchuriki.

 

[fastrthnwind]

base is the persons natural state without any enhancements to their body in any way, shape, or form.

this includes certain modes like sm, bm, gates, and also includes doujutsu like sharinga, byakugan.

 

[MightGai]

Does Raikiri and shadow clones increase the user's stats? We're talking about jutsus that increases user's stats and have to be consciously activated

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Naruto has atleast twice as much chakra as Kakashi. It's a fact that you need to have high amounts of chakra in order to become a jinchuriki.

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Kakashi's already stating that from the beginning, he has little chakra.