hiruzen said he was the strongest out of this group including tobirama and was confident he wouldn't die against the kinkaku force
and this was right before his prime probably
And that makes him the strongest hokage in history and a god of shinobi how?? Because he claimed himself to be the strongest of one group? Please, try to be logical.
Reaped Death Seal is suicide so it doesn't exactly result in soloing. Also Hashirama never used his Mokuton Dragon, Mokuton bunshin or the wild forest jutsu Madara displayed. Hiruzen has no counters to any of them except Maybee the dragon by burning it. Also Tobirama never used his own esp tensei. Basically they weren't going all out
I honestly don't get peoples obsession with him or wither he was the best of not.
Regardless or how strong he was, he managed to pull off beating oro and saving the village what was the main point. He managed to step back up to hokage when there was no one else.
Soloing is taking on an opponent by yourself, he soloed. Also is it that hard to believe that Kishi simply didn't invent all those jutsu's however many years ago that fight was. Also Enma > mokuton.
I disagree with solo...solo to me would be fighting an opponent and winning without dying. And it is rather obvious that Kishi developed those techniques later on. Obviously Hiruzen would've been destroyed had Kishi let Hashirama use any of them....not because Hiruzen is weak, but because the moves are retardedly OP...how is a monkey that turns into a giant staff>mokuton?! I'd say Hiruzen masterfully using a giant staff had the skill to dodge Mokuton...
I disagree with solo...solo to me would be fighting an opponent and winning without dying. And it is rather obvious that Kishi developed those techniques later on. Obviously Hiruzen would've been destroyed had Kishi let Hashirama use any of them....not because Hiruzen is weak, but because the moves are retardedly OP...how is a monkey that turns into a giant staff>mokuton?! I'd say Hiruzen masterfully using a giant staff had the skill to dodge Mokuton...
He did defeat those two without dying, then he went and fougt Orochimaru. Kishi clearly wanted to make Hiruzen the winner of the fight, if he made it now Hashir/Tobirama would have all there new techs but so would Hiruzen, the outcome doesn't change. Enma > mokuton because it was slicing through it like butter.
Wow typical NB! The guy volunteers to sacrifice his own life for his sensei, his teammates and piece of shit Danzo after which he portrays confidence in himself and a well known fact, and he is called an ego maniac and a prick? you people are the definition of haters! Either get your English dictionary or stop hating!
Forced to die, it was a choice and a method to permanently seal them. Also his methods shouldn't be questioned. What about two edo versions of the previous Hokages in their primes getting soloed by Hiruzen at old age?
It does matter. When someone's strongest move is a copied move, it does'nt say much for their power does it?
And what i meant was that Kabuto not only produced faaaaaar more edos than Oro, he also had extra chakra available to increase his techs power(binding):
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As you can see, he says the binding power increases thanks to the curse seal on anko. Oro just had his own chakra working with that tech. Also note that kabuto said way back that he had surpassed Oro(was going to) to Naruto and this was also shown by an enhanced Manda etc and as such the IWR is a reasonable assumption to add to that list.
Forced to die, it was a choice and a method to permanently seal them. Also his methods shouldn't be questioned. What about two edo versions of the previous Hokages in their primes getting soloed by Hiruzen at old age?
Let me ask you this. From what we have seen (Disregarding ALL hype, as I like to deal with actual evidence and not character statements) From what we have seen, who would win in a 1v1? Hiruzen Sarutobi, or Hashirama Senju? Please put all of your biased ideas aside for a minute and answer this truthfully. Who would win?
Some people on this base are slow, but it gets annoying when they use their poor comprehension skills as an excuse to claim their arguments are valid.
Nothing tops off the supposed legend Hiruzen 'the God of shinobi'. While we are yet to see anything remotely God like from this Kage who was murdered by Orochimaru, one does wonder where this hype originates from.
Before i go any further, lets first define 'fact' from fiction/assumptions/poor(fanboyish) reasoning.
FACTS:
Facts are actual, testable truths that can be proven either empirically or theoretically.
Lets take real life. Suppose the question is asked, who is the fastest man in the world?
How would you go about answering this question? Think about this. Most sane people would say its the man who can run the fastest. So, we look at the results from races in the olympics and other international events, and clearly see that Usain Bolt has the record time for the 100 metres and thus safely conclude that he is, in fact the fastest man alive.
But what if we were to take another approach? Lets say we got wound up in the question, it says 'who is the fastest man in the world', well the world is represented by the UN, so we'll ask the UN chief. The chief is'nt too sure, but he says ' (some random dude) Jim was said to be the fastest in the world'. He also says ' Jim was called the fastest in history'. It turns out that in his local school in his hometown, there was a pretty fast guy named Jim, the villagers had never seen anyone faster, so they naturally exaggerated what he could do and gave him those titles.
Which approach would you take to answer the question? What you had actually seen, or would you go on a bunch of dubious statements made by people who very likely had no clue how fast some people out there were/had been?
Now, the actual answer, obviously is that Usain bolt has shown the ability to run faster and should be the only answer as its the only thing tested and known to be true. Statements such as 'Jim was called the fastest in history' should be treated as complete rubbish . Now none of us actually know Jim, but we do know that Bolt has shown feats that leave no room for doubt, if these legends of Jim were true, he should come forward and prove it, till then Usain Bolt is the fastest.
All logical people would agree with the argument above^^. Amazingly , here on NB about half of people actually believe that Jim is the fastest and that the second line of argument is the correct one.
Simply substitute my question now to 'who was the strongest shinobi' and listen to the Hiruzen fanboys substitute logic with stupidity by actually claiming that because he has no feats but hype by characters(read:Iruka) who very likely had the same knowledge about the strongest in the rest of the shinobi world as those hypothetical villagers had in ours about the fastest, that therefore Hiruzen is the God of shinobi. For the sake of the people on this forum who like an intelligent debate, i hope some people can see the fallacy in all this.
Last but not least, the 3rd and latest databook in which kishi has updated all the info, says absolutely NOTHING about Hiruzen being either the strongest Hokage or a god of shinobi:
Sarutobi Hiruzen
Main text
There is no Hokage in Konoha's history who was as popular with his people as Hiruzen. In addition to the ninjutsu expertise and skill for which he was nicknamed "The Professor", he bore in his heart a fatherly affection for the whole village of Konoha. Even for the rebellion-plotting Uchiha clan, he made no exception.
Captions (Top to bottom)
-The gentle warmth of a father who took Konoha in his soft embrace.
-So they can meet you again one day... When you're older.
Picture comment
-He thought of every villager as a child of his own. Including even Orochimaru.
So this hype is just that, pure hype and nothing more. Note that there is no mention of his strength, or his 'God of shinobi' title. You know why? Because kishi simply had'nt thought up of OP characters in part 2 such as Madara, Kabuto, Nagato etc when he wrote those early chapters about the 3rd. It was pure hype, and anyone still clinging onto those outdated statements is obviously not understanding this manga.
Im not going to read the rest of this, since there are 3 threads already about this. Hiruzen committed suicide, he wasn't murdered. And if the Goddamn creator says it, through characters or not, then it is canon. Get over it.
ok, so then word of mouth isn't a reliable means of info. Kishi never said Hiruzen was the strongest, the outdated DB simply states that others considered him the strongest. Never knowing how credible those opinions were or who said it
ok, so then word of mouth isn't a reliable means of info. Kishi never said Hiruzen was the strongest, the outdated DB simply states that others considered him the strongest. Never knowing how credible those opinions were or who said it
