Draegod Will be defending Killer Bee and Complete Zetsu (black and white)
Conditions:
Oru is current but with out Zetsu Body (basically Regular Oru with arms not sealed, and no SM anything).
Naruto Has current sage mode feats but with no Kurama help what so ever and anything that isn't base or SM related (so no new god modes etc etc), and has 2 SM clones like with Pain.
Bee in V2 state has naruto's V2 feats (Tbb)
Restrictions:
Edo tensei, White snake poison/body steal, Frog song, Summons summoning other summons, Tailed beast mode, 6 minute total V2 mode (ration time)
Intel:
Manga or full (since zetsu knows everything and Oru knows everything)
Location:
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(Bee vs kisame fight)
Distance:
around 25+ I guess
No judges as of yet, still to be decided by us two. Please avoid Spam as you will be Reported.
It should be noted that Orochimaru relays all the information he has on Zetsu to Naruto and Naruto likewise relays all the information he has on Bee to Orochimaru. To begin, Naruto conducts a summoning Jutsu: Fukasaku and Shima who both then attach themselves to Orochimaru via
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and thus grants him Sage mode as well. With the toads, Orochimaru then replicates Jiraiya's
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however, replaces Fukasaku's Wind Release Stream with
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(which being powered by Sage mode easily covers the desired distance)----leaving the Oil-producing task to Fukasaku. The Jutsu is fired at a 45° angle towards the opponents for 8 seconds. During this time Naruto who is adjacent to Orochimaru has 2 clones temporarily form a Rasen-Shuriken which will be used as an insurance and all dispersed if not utilized. As Zetsu lacks the necessary defenses to guard himself against the intense heat produced by the Goemon his only option would be to retreat underground; likewise Bee who in his base state lacks defenses to tank Orochimaru's jutsu would be forced to enter his tailed beast state: Version 1 to evade the attack via Shun-shin or Version 2 to tank the Jutsu. Orochimaru makes three Kage bunshin, two which will be used to eliminate Zetsu and the third would be used as an aid to kill
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: The initial two goes beneath the surface by applying
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to the ground beneath their standing point. They then proceed to locate [via Snake sensing abilities, sensing abilities provided by Sage Mode and sensing abilities provided by the Moguragakure jutsu itself] and directly intercept Zetsu; traveling through the ground in a semi-snake form which would double or perhaps tipple their versatility through the earth. As the clones approach Zetsu, Clone-1 temporarily, severs all the electrical impulses flowing from Zetsu's brain to his body through all 5 senses, causing an overload and hence, paralysis via
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and simultaneously Clone-2 uses a Hebi kuchiyose and bites white Zetsu; applying venom to his body which then paralyzes him. As Kanashibari leaves a window for a second move, Clone-1 bite's Black Zetsu and applies the curse seal which accounts for both Zetsu's being paralyzed. Clone-2 then removes both of their heads with a Kunai strike. Above the surface: Orochimaru's clone immediately sticks his head into the ground and utilizes a double application of jutsu, in that Doton: Moguragakure no Jutsu is applied to Mandara no Jin [Formation of Ten Thousand Snakes] being in unawares to the opponent and directed to beneath his standing point to protrude at a 45° angle out of the ground. Naruto wielding two Giant Rasengans and the original Orochimaru wielding Kusanagi would simultaneous approach Kirābī in a circular route with a sufficient space in between for Mandara no Jin effectiveness. Regardless of 'state' If Kirābī decides to react to Naruto and Orochimaru then he is caught in unawares by the clones Jutsu and vice versa, if he responds to the clone then he is mauled by Naruto, Orochimaru and finished off or taken into the air by the clones jutsu. If Kirābī uses V2 to defend each time then the process is continually repeated for 6 minutes then he is finished off.
My niguh! Paragraphs would of been nice though! haha And can you link some of the Japanese names with links, I'm not to familiar with the OG names. I'm sure others as well.
It should be noted that Orochimaru relays all the information he has on Zetsu to Naruto and Naruto likewise relays all the information he has on Bee to Orochimaru. To begin, Naruto conducts a summoning Jutsu: Fukasaku and Shima who both then attach themselves to Orochimaru via
You must be registered for see links
and thus grants him Sage mode as well. With the toads, Orochimaru then replicates Jiraiya's
You must be registered for see links
however, replaces Fukasaku's Wind Release Stream with
You must be registered for see links
(which being powered by Sage mode easily covers the desired distance)----leaving the Oil-producing task to Fukasaku. The Jutsu is fired at a 45° angle towards the opponents for 8 seconds.
During this time Naruto who is adjacent to Orochimaru has 2 clones temporarily form a Rasen-Shuriken which will be used as an insurance and all dispersed if not utilized. As Zetsu lacks the necessary defenses to guard himself against the intense heat produced by the Goemon his only option would be to retreat underground; likewise Bee who in his base state lacks defenses to tank Orochimaru's jutsu would be forced to enter his tailed beast state: Version 1 to evade the attack via Shun-shin or Version 2 to tank the Jutsu.
Orochimaru makes three Kage bunshin, two which will be used to eliminate Zetsu and the third would be used as an aid to kill
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: The initial two goes beneath the surface by applying
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to the ground beneath their standing point. They then proceed to locate [via Snake sensing abilities, sensing abilities provided by Sage Mode and sensing abilities provided by the Moguragakure jutsu itself] and directly intercept Zetsu; traveling through the ground in a semi-snake form which would double or perhaps tipple their versatility through the earth. As the clones approach Zetsu, Clone-1 temporarily, severs all the electrical impulses flowing from Zetsu's brain to his body through all 5 senses, causing an overload and hence, paralysis via
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and simultaneously Clone-2 uses a Hebi kuchiyose and bites white Zetsu; applying venom to his body which then paralyzes him. As Kanashibari leaves a window for a second move, Clone-1 bite's Black Zetsu and applies the curse seal which accounts for both Zetsu's being paralyzed. Clone-2 then removes both of their heads with a Kunai strike. Above the surface: Orochimaru's clone immediately sticks his head into the ground and utilizes a double application of jutsu, in that Doton: Moguragakure no Jutsu is applied to Mandara no Jin [Formation of Ten Thousand Snakes] being in unawares to the opponent and directed to beneath his standing point to protrude at a 45° angle out of the ground. Naruto wielding two Giant Rasengans and the original Orochimaru wielding Kusanagi would simultaneous approach Kirābī in a circular route with a sufficient space in between for Mandara no Jin effectiveness. Regardless of 'state' If Kirābī decides to react to Naruto and Orochimaru then he is caught in unawares by the clones Jutsu and vice versa, if he responds to the clone then he is mauled by Naruto, Orochimaru and finished off or taken into the air by the clones jutsu. If Kirābī uses V2 to defend each time then the process is continually repeated for 6 minutes then he is finished off.
First off; Also noted Zetsu Tells the in's and out's of my Opponents before we fight as well.
Given the strategy attempt you are planning (summoning Jutsu). Zetsu starts off by
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then Splitting up:
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Then Proceed to make Many Zetsu Clones to aid in the bout!
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We will choose to create around 30+ clones. And let off a certain Jutsu. Bee will Go into V1 with Samahada. The OG 2 zetsu's then Proceed to disappear in the planet. And just so you know, No form of
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while using May Flower Tech:
Databook 3 - Kagerou:
Mayfly* (蜉蝣, Kagerou)
Ninjutsu, No rank, Supplementary, All ranges
User: Zetsu
Using roots to glide through the ground, this is a espionage and subterranean travel technique~~!!
This infiltration technique is characteristic of Zetsu. It allows him to merge his body with the ground and flora and travel at high speed.
His insectivorous plant-like shell has the ability to merge with the ground, because it is tinged with his chakra. Then, using the underground network of organic matter, consisting of things like plant roots and water veins, he can travel everywhere with high speed. While using this technique, his presence is completely concealed. No person would be able to perceive Zetsu's existence.
[picture of Zetsu watching from a tree trunk]
[picture of Zetsu appearing from a branch, next to Tobi]
↑→Zetsu can conceal himself in trees, sand, and the like. When seeing fellow shinobi fight, this technique conceals his presence.
*Mayflies are insects, well-known for having a very short lifespan. Adult mayflies only life for half an hour to a day, depending on the species.
Kagerou may also be short for "usubakagerou" (薄羽蜉蝣), the Japanese name for the adult antlion (these adults have no wide-spread name in English). The larvæ of this insect, the antlions proper, are well-known for burrowing sand pits in which they trap ants and such. These larvæ (and the pits they dig) are called arijigoku (蟻地獄, "ant hell") in Japanese.
So in short you cannot sense with snakes/Sagemode/Normal Sensing.
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is Null and void sense they do not have Blood nor a "warm body" so that would be out the window, And since he can conceal his presence from even
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is also out the window. When the Mayflower is in affect you will not know where or when Zetsu will pop up. Remember:
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So we have Numbers on our side while you attempt to have Oru go into Sage mode. But That isn't instant either. Naruto Summoning 2 great SAGE Toads is out of his league. He could Summon Bunta with The Kyubi's Chakra, And he could Only Use 2 Rasenshurikens While in Sage Mode before it turns off Correct?
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to muster up enough Chakra to summon the 2. Now I'm not saying he couldn't summon them, just that it would take up all of his sage chakra or at the very least 75% to the point a Rasenshuriken is out of the question (
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, around 45%). Basically if he summons the toads, no Rasenshuriken and Sage mode is off or near off.
Next is the Notion that Oru can Handle Sage chakra in the Body he is in (since it is not Zetsu Body). Plus the Notion The two Elders would agree to attach to Oru easily and with out question isn't happening. But I take it you will explain or give a reason he would be able to handle it. So I'll Save it for later..
Then the Idea that They will know Oru has a wind jutsu and Oru will know they have teh same combo Jman used is not happening. One Oru has never seen the 2 sages and they have never seen Oru. Naruto has only seen the 2 sages fight once and they didn't fight the same way with Jman, so even he couldn't tell Oru what to do. So they notion that they will be perfectly is Far-fetched and not Likely unless you can give a valid reason to why it would be so perfect. I'll also Save this for later..
Naruto clones using Rasenshuriken is fine, as long as you know they go poof afterwards. Bee has Samahada to absorb The Rasenshuriken Plus V1 to tank and
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. So in short Rasenshurikens are not a problem at all. And Zetsu's can simply Mayflower it since they know how powerful it is.
When it comes to Taijutsu Bee with his Cloak and Samahada will be more then enough for Naruto. Bee will Blitz Naruto with V1 Aye like Speed to engage and make sure any more weird things not happen. Zetsu and his Clones will troll Oru until we decide to DO what we plan on doing. I think the Battle is at a real state with both Debaters Characters doing what is done with what is wrote.
The time Zetsu would require to: Clone himself, split each clone and then proceed to make 30+ clones of white Zetsu would be far more than what it would require Naruto to perform a Kuchiyose. Since you couldn't completely discredit Naruto Summoning the two toads he still summons Fukasaku and Shima who both then attach themselves to Orochimaru via Senpō: Ryōsei no Jutsu. Even if his chakra is depleted it would not be entirely. You stress on how Naruto required the kyubi's chakra to summon gamabunta, that was part 1. Minato Namikaze who has an inferior chakra pool was able to summon Gamabunta and so did Jiraiya while he was facing Orochimaru with Tsunade. It's a weak point on your behalf Drae, comparing Part 1 Naruto to Part 2. Fact is; if Jiraiya could summon both elders without any external source of chakra, Naruto in his Sage Mode state would be able to do so as well. Now you inquired:
You said:
Next is the Notion that Oru can Handle Sage chakra in the Body he is in (since it is not Zetsu Body). Plus the Notion The two Elders would agree to attach to Oru easily and with out question isn't happening. But I take it you will explain or give a reason he would be able to handle it. So I'll Save it for later..
I will tell you that Orochimaru can indeed and has handled Senjutsu in is body since the beginning of the series as he incorporated it with Anko's cruse seal [
and much more so his body wasn't adequate to perform Jugo's ability: The ability to endlessly harness natural energy from the terrain without the drawback of standing still. He was imperfect just as Jiraiya. It is the reason why Kabuto incorporated this ability into his body and perfected what Orochimaru was trying to achieve. Again, the entire issue with sage mode when it comes to battle combat is that you'd have to stand still to resuscitate the energy----Jiraiya overcame this issue by allowing Fukasaku and Shima to gather and balance this chakra for him. The bold isn't an argument as this is a versus Scenario meaning that both individual's on my team are completely co-operative as they are aspiring the same: to defeat the opponents. Since the only thing recorded in the Manga that could plausibly prohibit Fukusaku and Shima from joining to a host is another external entity which has access to the Host's chakra network such as a Biju, then they effortlessly Join with Orochimaru and Substitute for Jugo's ability.
]. Now since they can be differed via sensing it contradicts the Databooks claim that No person would be able to perceive Zetsu's existence and this can be seen in the simple fact that if Kyubi-Mode Naruto were beneath the surface and Zetsu approached him via the Kagerou Jutsu he would be able to sense his presence. True, this is only applicable to Kyubi-Mode Naruto however his 'mode' isn't the issue here but rather that the Databook has been contradicted since there exists a type of sensing that can pin point Zetsu. Sage mode begets an ability upon the user, that is the ability to sense
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and
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. Kabuto explained that this ability is having the force of nature as a defense mechanism. It means two things in this scenario:
-> Someone utilizing Sennin modo cannot be caught by surprise. Therefore all the Zetsu beneath the earth cannot catch neither Naruto or Orochimaru off guard.
-> Shun-Shin or high speed jutsu is anticipated.
To further discredit the Databooks outdated claim, I'll let you know that Orochimaru can sense Zetsu's presence in Mayfly or not which explains Zetsu's surprise. My initially strategy for Killing zetsu still remains but is now applicable to both Zetsu clone's and their respective pairs. The Manga explains..
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You said:
Then the Idea that They will know Oru has a wind jutsu and Oru will know they have teh same combo Jman used is not happening. One Oru has never seen the 2 sages and they have never seen Oru. Naruto has only seen the 2 sages fight once and they didn't fight the same way with Jman, so even he couldn't tell Oru what to do. So they notion that they will be perfectly is Far-fetched and not Likely unless you can give a valid reason to why it would be so perfect.
Nahh bro, the notion cannot be farfetched if they are in possession of the Jutsu. They are my characters and I am to use their jutsu to my advantage. It's no different to you saying that "It's impossible for Itachi to Join his amatearsu with Naruto's rasen-Shuriken because he doesn't know Naruto has the Jutsu" . You're only appealing to ignorance. Fact is, the Jutsu can be replicated by the method which I stated. If you still are not satisfied; Fukasaku and Shima asks Orochimaru to produce a Fuuton jutsu to be collaborated with their respective jutsu and you have a perfect replica of Jiraiya's Goemon. Even if Bee absorbs Rasen-Shuriken with Samehada he'd still be caught in unawares by Mandara no Jin. Bee cannot blitz Naruto in Sage mode as he senses faster than In Kyuubi mode and would respond likewise. Since Naruto initially has a Futon: Rasen-Shuriken prepared if bee attempts this at the beginning of the battle he would be shredded.
The time Zetsu would require to: Clone himself, split each clone and then proceed to make 30+ clones of white Zetsu would be far more than what it would require Naruto to perform a Kuchiyose. Since you couldn't completely discredit Naruto Summoning the two toads he still summons Fukasaku and Shima who both then attach themselves to Orochimaru via Senpō: Ryōsei no Jutsu. Even if his chakra is depleted it would not be entirely. You stress on how Naruto required the kyubi's chakra to summon gamabunta, that was part 1. Minato Namikaze who has an inferior chakra pool was able to summon Gamabunta and so did Jiraiya while he was facing Orochimaru with Tsunade. It's a weak point on your behalf Drae, comparing Part 1 Naruto to Part 2. Fact is; if Jiraiya could summon both elders without any external source of chakra, Naruto in his Sage Mode state would be able to do so as well. Now you inquired:
I will tell you that Orochimaru can indeed and has handled Senjutsu in is body since the beginning of the series as he incorporated it with Anko's cruse seal [
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].
Orochimaru was essentially a sage, but he
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and much more so his body wasn't adequate to perform Jugo's ability: The ability to endlessly harness natural energy from the terrain without the drawback of standing still. He was imperfect just as Jiraiya. It is the reason why Kabuto incorporated this ability into his body and perfected what Orochimaru was trying to achieve. Again, the entire issue with sage mode when it comes to battle combat is that you'd have to stand still to resuscitate the energy----Jiraiya overcame this issue by allowing Fukasaku and Shima to gather and balance this chakra for him. The bold isn't an argument as this is a versus Scenario meaning that both individual's on my team are completely co-operative as they are aspiring the same: to defeat the opponents. Since the only thing recorded in the Manga that could plausibly prohibit Fukusaku and Shima from joining to a host is another external entity which has access to the Host's chakra network such as a Biju, then they effortlessly Join with Orochimaru and Substitute for Jugo's ability.
No..you're wrong [
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]. Now since they can be differed via sensing it contradicts the Databooks claim that No person would be able to perceive Zetsu's existence and this can be seen in the simple fact that if Kyubi-Mode Naruto were beneath the surface and Zetsu approached him via the Kagerou Jutsu he would be able to sense his presence. True, this is only applicable to Kyubi-Mode Naruto however his 'mode' isn't the issue here but rather that the Databook has been contradicted since there exists a type of sensing that can pin point Zetsu. Sage mode begets an ability upon the user, that is the ability to sense
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and
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. Kabuto explained that this ability is having the force of nature as a defense mechanism. It means two things in this scenario:
-> Someone utilizing Sennin modo cannot be caught by surprise. Therefore all the Zetsu beneath the earth cannot catch neither Naruto or Orochimaru off guard.
-> Shun-Shin or high speed jutsu is anticipated.
To further discredit the Databooks outdated claim, I'll let you know that Orochimaru can sense Zetsu's presence in Mayfly or not which explains Zetsu's surprise. My initially strategy for Killing zetsu still remains but is now applicable to both Zetsu clone's and their respective pairs. The Manga explains..
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Nahh bro, the notion cannot be farfetched if they are in possession of the Jutsu. They are my characters and I am to use their jutsu to my advantage. It's no different to you saying that "It's impossible for Itachi to Join his amatearsu with Naruto's rasen-Shuriken because he doesn't know Naruto has the Jutsu" . You're only appealing to ignorance. Fact is, the Jutsu can be replicated by the method which I stated. If you still are not satisfied; Fukasaku and Shima asks Orochimaru to produce a Fuuton jutsu to be collaborated with their respective jutsu and you have a perfect replica of Jiraiya's Goemon. Even if Bee absorbs Rasen-Shuriken with Samehada he'd still be caught in unawares by Mandara no Jin. Bee cannot blitz Naruto in Sage mode as he senses faster than In Kyuubi mode and would respond likewise. Since Naruto initially has a Futon: Rasen-Shuriken prepared if bee attempts this at the beginning of the battle he would be shredded.
Good Look Waltz, But you misunderstood allot what I was asking and Saying.
I stated Naruto Summoning The 2 sages could happen and We have nothing to stop it. But He will most Def lose Sage mode or not be able to stay in it long at all; we can agree on this for sure! The notion that they will Asap Attach is what is not happening in any day and age. Since One they are Naruto's summonings, Two They have there own will (super summons you can call it), Three They will not know to do that since they have never had to. Naruto will have to explain the situation or Oru would have to tell them, "I can handle Senjutsu" or "It is okay to merge with me". Basically it is indeed a a process that has to explained or demanded, I.e. not instant since it isn't Oru's summons and Oru has never seen them and vice versa. Whether this is a fake what if battle or not you still have to be realistic for the most part.
And you misunderstood the Manga. Oru has Senjutsu and can Use it (Curse mark etc), But he still lacks the Body to go into Sage mode (
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). There is a reason he went from body to body plus using other test subjects to see if they can harness Senjutsu properly. It literally states he had not found A body that could handle Sage mode Transformation
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. And it states that You have to be trained by The Snake sage
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to master it (or toad sages). Maintain it is one thing,
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like Naruto and Kabuto is another. Hell if he had the perfect body he wouldn't need another (outside a sharingan body). But It isn't that serious to keep talking about it. I'll allow and agree to it, but the judges can think otherwise and pick there own thoughts on the matter.
Moving on.
If you are going to Quote me, Quote all of the sentence bro.
This is what I stated:
We will choose to create around 30+ clones. And let off a certain Jutsu. Bee will Go into V1 with Samahada. The OG 2 zetsu's then Proceed to disappear in the planet. And just so you know, No form of sensing can find or differ Zetsu while using May Flower Tech:
Naruto did not sense them using Mayflower tech. No ninja has ever sensed Zetsu while using Mayflower. That still stands and has not yet ever been disproved. I never stated Zetsu couldn't be sensed period or ever while above ground or fighting, I state While using Mayflower. And since He "Becomes the Land itself", how can you sense what is everything or everywhere/Anywhere? Your Going underground Strategy will never work in a million years since i can literally be in trees/Mountains/Snow/Water/Rocks/Buildings. You don't know!
Plus the Fact Naruto Kyuibi Chakra mode doesn't sense chakra at all through your argument for a loop as well. The worlds best Sensors, Byakugan and Sharingan couldn't tell if he was present or not. And
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r is moot since while merged there is danger from anywhere in the planet since he can attack when ever.
And All though they cannot be caught be Surprise normally, they can still be tricked and or attacked. As seen [here] with Kabuto, he failed to know that Itachi was going to attack.
And since Oru is similar to imperfect Jman they cannot and do not have the same Sensing Feats As A perfect Sage mode Naruto or Kabuto:
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As you can see here he didn't even sense that other Pains (3 more) were summoned and waiting in the shadows. He also Didn't sense The pain sneak up on him, talk, then Attack him. They also didn't since that the other three had been revived
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and only noticed through vision. They couldn't sense Pain inside his summon and his summon
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, and right [
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] Jman even states he has a detection barrier still up basically because he still cannot sense him at all! That is when Ma has to do
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in order to find him. Basically Neither Ma, Pa or Jman/Oru can sense like Kabuto or Naruto unless you show proof they mastered that form of sensing. SO the idea that Oru and his Clones will Sense Zetsu like naruto or kabuto perfectly is not backed up by anything.
And again on the "Oru sensing Zetsu presence", Zetsu wasn't using Mayflower so that point is moot. Mayflower facts still stand since I have proof and feats from manga you cannot chakra sense/smell or tell where he is at inside the planet or when using the tech.
Bee blitzing Naruto would be to close the distance not try to kill. Bee also
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to aid in fighting Naruto and his clones. And we all know what happens you you attempt to
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. So with ink clones Plus Bee they will definitely Overwhelm and rape Naruto in close combat with his 2 other clones If naruto decides to engage.
Next with the Majority of Zetsu's they Transform to some of the ninja's they
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of or
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:
Mifune:
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Mei:
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Kisame:
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Sasuke:
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Onoki:
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Just to name a Few any other Ninjas in the Manga they have touched. They will be used to help aid us in stalling and Fighting for a particular cause! And with it known that Ma and Pa are what will Keep Oru in sage mode (if his body can maintain it, remember this isn't healthy or perfect body Oru), Bee and Co will know to either knock Ma and Pa off or disrupt Oru's Chakra to the point Sage mode will turn off Automatically. Countering the Combo Used by Oru and The frogs will be a simple and easy task seeing as V1 Plus Samaha negates it completely and Zetsu simply avoids it via trees or ground.
I stated Naruto Summoning The 2 sages could happen and We have nothing to stop it. But He will most Def lose Sage mode or not be able to stay in it long at all; we can agree on this for sure! The notion that they will Asap Attach is what is not happening in any day and age. Since One they are Naruto's summonings, Two They have there own will (super summons you can call it), Three They will not know to do that since they have never had to. Naruto will have to explain the situation or Oru would have to tell them, "I can handle Senjutsu" or "It is okay to merge with me". Basically it is indeed a a process that has to explained or demanded, I.e. not instant since it isn't Oru's summons and Oru has never seen them and vice versa. Whether this is a fake what if battle or not you still have to be realistic for the most part.
Naruto has 2 SM clones in reserve so even if summoning the elders deplete his chakra to a high extent, it can be replenished. Now the bold ; I am not sure why you think that I am not being realistic when your argument is only based on trivialities. Basically, you are saying that for Fukasaku and Shima to attach to Orochimaru it would require some context of communication between the two. This shouldn't even be a highlighted issue for two reasons; Firstly, both individuals of each team are already aware of the strategy to be used as a means of overcoming the opponent. It would be redundant for either of us to state each time that a member of our team must say to their counter-part that they are going to perform a certain action or give an explanation as to why they are going to perform a certain action. I didn't state that it would occur instantaneously as that is impossible and only to that extent I will agree but you still fail to provide an argument against the elders joining with Orochimaru, expectedly as there is none in this situation.
And you misunderstood the Manga. Oru has Senjutsu and can Use it (Curse mark etc), But he still lacks the Body to go into Sage mode (Since not any ninja can achieve such a Feat). There is a reason he went from body to body plus using other test subjects to see if they can harness Senjutsu properly. It literally states he had not found A body that could handle Sage mode Transformation [here]. And it states that You have to be trained by The Snake sage [here] to master it (or toad sages). Maintain it is one thing, mastering it like Naruto and Kabuto is another. Hell if he had the perfect body he wouldn't need another (outside a sharingan body). But It isn't that serious to keep talking about it. I'll allow and agree to it, but the judges can think otherwise and pick there own thoughts on the matter.
More or less. Harnessing Senjutsu was never the issue. The Curse Seal is the experimentation on Jugo, whose body naturally produces an enzyme that activates Sage Transformations by absorbing Natural energy from the terrain. Therefore anyone who receives the Curse seal are able to harness this energy and undergo transformations. Orochimaru was in search of someone who could regulate and further balance this power with their own chakra without going berserk, which is what Sage mode is all about. Jiraiya just as Orochimaru on their own could not acquire this balance. However I will comply and leave it to the judges.
Naruto did not sense them using Mayflower tech. No ninja has ever sensed Zetsu while using Mayflower. That still stands and has not yet ever been disproved. I never stated Zetsu couldn't be sensed period or ever while above ground or fighting, I state While using Mayflower. And since He "Becomes the Land itself", how can you sense what is everything or everywhere/Anywhere? Your Going underground Strategy will never work in a million years since i can literally be in trees/Mountains/Snow/Water/Rocks/Buildings. You don't know!
The worlds best Sensors, Byakugan and Sharingan couldn't tell if he was present or not.
Zetsu is able to merge his body with the ground and flora because it is tinged with his chakra; meaning that as he is composed of Mokuton (Suiton + Doton + Youton) it has a contrasting quality to that of the Land, earth, water and it's other constituents. He simply merges with it as it is in sync with his chakra and composition. Then, using the underground network of organic matter, consisting of things like plant roots and water veins, he can travel everywhere with high speed. It means then that if Zetsu were able to alter his chakra composition to that of lets say another Shinobi that he would be able to perfectly replicate them and their chakra signatures; something undetectable by sensors----which is his 'Substitute Technique'. It is a similar application to that of the Mayfly jutsu in order to replicate an entire shinobi and what Naruto was able to differentiate.
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Just as utilizing the Kagerou jutsu evaporates Zetsu's chakra signature, Zetsu-spores have no Chakra of their own and cannot be detected via regular sensor methods as we saw through the Kage summit. However, Orochimaru through study, devised a way to detect their presence even within an individual making it more of a 'possibility' than a 'no' that, he would be able to locate Zetsu underground. Even During the current shinobi war, once the sensor division knew that the Zetsu clones were
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, and they started
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in the right place, they were able to sense all of the Zetsu clones using this technique.
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However, even if given the benefit of the doubt that Zetsu is entirely undetectable while using this jutsu he still cannot catch either of my combatants by surprise:
-> Regardless of whether Zetsu or his clones are concealed within trees or the ground (Given the terrain), the jutsu itself becomes redundant once his body protrudes from these surfaces as his presence and location are clearly visible [
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].
-> However, what is to note is: Kabuto has been the only individual to have sensed Zetsu's presence while using the Mayfly jutsu. Sasuke and Itachi failed to notice his presence while engaging in combat as did Kakashi, Chiyo, Naruto and Sakura just prior to facing Itachi in the forest. It again may give credence to Orochimaru's adept study on Hashirama's cells and being able to detect their presence; information which may be passable to Naruto.
-> Your reference of the Six realms is non applicable as their combat speed and reaction time far succeeds that of any Zetsu. Once Zetsu protrudes he will be identified.
-> The fact that Jiraiya failed to sense the other Realms highlights why he is an inferior Sage to Naruto who could sense everyone's chakra across several kilometers [
Bee blitzing Naruto would be to close the distance not try to kill. Bee also Has Ink CLones to aid in fighting Naruto and his clones. And we all know what happens you you attempt to combat Ink Clones. So with ink clones Plus Bee they will definitely Overwhelm and rape Naruto in close combat with his 2 other clones If naruto decides to engage.
'Ink clones' is a sealing Jutsu used by the Hachibi [
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] and thus far you haven't stated bee engaging this transformation but rather a V1 cloak. As I stated Naruto has 2 Kagebunshin initially form a Rasenshuriken for an insurance; meaning that if bee gets within close range---which would be done through a linear movement; he'll be shredded by the Jutsu.
Next with the Majority of Zetsu's they Transform to some of the ninja's they Sucked Chakra out of or ever touched:
Just to name a Few any other Ninjas in the Manga they have touched. They will be used to help aid us in stalling and Fighting for a particular cause! And with it known that Ma and Pa are what will Keep Oru in sage mode (if his body can maintain it, remember this isn't healthy or perfect body Oru), Bee and Co will know to either knock Ma and Pa off or disrupt Oru's Chakra to the point Sage mode will turn off Automatically. Countering the Combo Used by Oru and The frogs will be a simple and easy task seeing as V1 Plus Samaha negates it completely and Zetsu simply avoids it via trees or ground.
-> 1) It's impossible for Zetsu to do so as jutsu is only possible if Zetsu acquires the chakra from these said individuals and then proceeds to transform with it. What has been portrayed is that the chakra they absorb is used to carry out the transformation itself. It's already been noted that once these clones take a significant amount of damage the Jutsu is cancelled.
-> 2) It has never been stated or implied to be the case that White Zetsu could simply create clones of others that he had previously touched.
-> 3) Draegod, the clones themselves are not strong enough for extended battles as they are much weaker than the original individuals, which makes it more of a distraction than anything. To add to that, the clones do not carry the physical or chakra prowess of the original as perhaps Kagebunshin do. Sakura mauling the Neji clone is the perfect example as if it were indeed Neji, it would have been a failed attempt on Sakura's behalf.
[...]
@ Underlined:
-Red: No one on your team is aware of this, meaning, the unexplained strategy following that 'Bee and Co. will simply knock Ma and Pa off Orochimaru/Chakra disruption' is really, moot.
-Green: A Samehada who has difficulty absorbing a simple katon Jutsu isn't absorbing boiling oil and you didn't state how V1 Negates the Jutsu.
Naruto has 2 SM clones in reserve so even if summoning the elders deplete his chakra to a high extent, it can be replenished. Now the bold ; I am not sure why you think that I am not being realistic when your argument is only based on trivialities. Basically, you are saying that for Fukasaku and Shima to attach to Orochimaru it would require some context of communication between the two. This shouldn't even be a highlighted issue for two reasons; Firstly, both individuals of each team are already aware of the strategy to be used as a means of overcoming the opponent. It would be redundant for either of us to state each time that a member of our team must say to their counter-part that they are going to perform a certain action or give an explanation as to why they are going to perform a certain action. I didn't state that it would occur instantaneously as that is impossible and only to that extent I will agree but you still fail to provide an argument against the elders joining with Orochimaru, expectedly as there is none in this situation.
More or less. Harnessing Senjutsu was never the issue. The Curse Seal is the experimentation on Jugo, whose body naturally produces an enzyme that activates Sage Transformations by absorbing Natural energy from the terrain. Therefore anyone who receives the Curse seal are able to harness this energy and undergo transformations. Orochimaru was in search of someone who could regulate and further balance this power with their own chakra without going berserk, which is what Sage mode is all about. Jiraiya just as Orochimaru on their own could not acquire this balance. However I will comply and leave it to the judges.
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Zetsu is able to merge his body with the ground and flora because it is tinged with his chakra; meaning that as he is composed of Mokuton (Suiton + Doton + Youton) it has a contrasting quality to that of the Land, earth, water and it's other constituents. He simply merges with it as it is in sync with his chakra and composition. Then, using the underground network of organic matter, consisting of things like plant roots and water veins, he can travel everywhere with high speed. It means then that if Zetsu were able to alter his chakra composition to that of lets say another Shinobi that he would be able to perfectly replicate them and their chakra signatures; something undetectable by sensors----which is his 'Substitute Technique'. It is a similar application to that of the Mayfly jutsu in order to replicate an entire shinobi and what Naruto was able to differentiate.
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Just as utilizing the Kagerou jutsu evaporates Zetsu's chakra signature, Zetsu-spores have no Chakra of their own and cannot be detected via regular sensor methods as we saw through the Kage summit. However, Orochimaru through study, devised a way to detect their presence even within an individual making it more of a 'possibility' than a 'no' that, he would be able to locate Zetsu underground. Even During the current shinobi war, once the sensor division knew that the Zetsu clones were
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, and they started
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in the right place, they were able to sense all of the Zetsu clones using this technique.
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However, even if given the benefit of the doubt that Zetsu is entirely undetectable while using this jutsu he still cannot catch either of my combatants by surprise:
-> Regardless of whether Zetsu or his clones are concealed within trees or the ground (Given the terrain), the jutsu itself becomes redundant once his body protrudes from these surfaces as his presence and location are clearly visible [
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].
-> However, what is to note is: Kabuto has been the only individual to have sensed Zetsu's presence while using the Mayfly jutsu. Sasuke and Itachi failed to notice his presence while engaging in combat as did Kakashi, Chiyo, Naruto and Sakura just prior to facing Itachi in the forest. It again may give credence to Orochimaru's adept study on Hashirama's cells and being able to detect their presence; information which may be passable to Naruto.
-> Your reference of the Six realms is non applicable as their combat speed and reaction time far succeeds that of any Zetsu. Once Zetsu protrudes he will be identified.
-> The fact that Jiraiya failed to sense the other Realms highlights why he is an inferior Sage to Naruto who could sense everyone's chakra across several kilometers [
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]
W-whachu talkin' bout willis?
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'Ink clones' is a sealing Jutsu used by the Hachibi [
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] and thus far you haven't stated bee engaging this transformation but rather a V1 cloak. As I stated Naruto has 2 Kagebunshin initially form a Rasenshuriken for an insurance; meaning that if bee gets within close range---which would be done through a linear movement; he'll be shredded by the Jutsu.
@ bold:
-> 1) It's impossible for Zetsu to do so as jutsu is only possible if Zetsu acquires the chakra from these said individuals and then proceeds to transform with it. What has been portrayed is that the chakra they absorb is used to carry out the transformation itself. It's already been noted that once these clones take a significant amount of damage the Jutsu is cancelled.
-> 2) It has never been stated or implied to be the case that White Zetsu could simply create clones of others that he had previously touched.
-> 3) Draegod, the clones themselves are not strong enough for extended battles as they are much weaker than the original individuals, which makes it more of a distraction than anything. To add to that, the clones do not carry the physical or chakra prowess of the original as perhaps Kagebunshin do. Sakura mauling the Neji clone is the perfect example as if it were indeed Neji, it would have been a failed attempt on Sakura's behalf.
[...]
@ Underlined:
-Red: No one on your team is aware of this, meaning, the unexplained strategy following that 'Bee and Co. will simply knock Ma and Pa off Orochimaru/Chakra disruption' is really, moot.
-Green: A Samehada who has difficulty absorbing a simple katon Jutsu isn't absorbing boiling oil and you didn't state how V1 Negates the Jutsu.
Pertaining the Naruto and summons part. Great that you agree he would have to soon use a Sage clone in storage to replenish his sage chakra. That is all I wanted to here. I allowed your strategy to take affected whether it made sense or not, just so long you knew the chakra it would take. And as long as you know there would be a process (talking and telling) that would have to take place before the sync happens. This gives me plenty of time to set up my self.
We will leave the Oru and his body taking Senjutsu to the judges.
Just so you Know, When the Amburame and Hyuga learned about the Zetsu army,
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yet. That is when they got the info and sent it
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to head quarters to learn how many enemies they were facing. Then when the Zetsu started to move (not yet travel through the ground all the way is when he states
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) is when they noticed the Zetsu were moving through the planet. After they told HQ, and before the Bug dude died and sent them the last info about the Zetsu moving through the earth; HQ then says they need to try and
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(even though they should have been able to to begin with), and even then it is stated they still
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the Zetsu. So in short it took the worlds best Sensors all together to "Detect" the Clone zetsu's moving under ground. But really it was The Bug Dude and his communications with the bugs that told HQ what was going on. And from the looks of it, they were not using Mayflower. It seems they were using Hiding like a
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. Since with Mayflower they would have been able to (with in moments) go to where ever they pleased! They shouldn't have had full bodies like that when they were exposed. And we all know when ever Zetsu used Mayflower he was anywhere almost instantly no difficulty (would have went to the HQ, or heal division etc etc). The army didn't use Mayflower when they were detected.
As for The zetsu Trying to attack after coming from underneath; They don't need to successfully attack every time. With the numbers and surprise element on our side they can plan and catch you at your most vulnerable time
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(like trying to defend from bee them). Or When you are trying to attack
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when you least expect it etc etc.
Many of them will be used to simply piss you off basically. haha And with the Spores active that will also mess up any would be combos smothering the body
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. That would in turn leave you wide open for attacks to strike! Don't sleep on the numbers and combos that can be created with the small things.
As for the ink clones;
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Bee can create Ink like it is nothing. And like the Habachi stated, "
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", not "one of Mine", he specifically states "Bee". And it isn't hard,
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and allow it to take shape. So bee using ink clones is 100% accessible with no difficulty. And once you come in contact with them you know the rest..
And with the Zetsu Clones, it gets tricky my good man.
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Zetsu was shown at the summit to absorb All the kages (besides Gaara and Aye) and body guards. The manga specifically states any ninja he has ever touched or chakra that has been absorb. And the ninja's I'm transforming to are all victims at some point in the manga. There is nothing to dispute unless you want scans of their chakra being absorbed?
And you are incorrect on "It's already been noted that once these clones take a significant amount of damage the Jutsu is cancelled.", As seen
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the Zetsu Kisame was decapitated yet kept everything the same for hours until Zetsu him self deactivated the Jutsu.
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So in terms of
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, they are elite! The only reason The shape shifting with ended with the Fodder Clones used in the war was because they weren't the Main Zetsu Clones, they were the weaker 100000 clones used in the war. The Clones I created are the Stronger OG ones used to clone Kisame Perfectly. So that should end if they are "durable".
And with Zetsu watching basically ever ninja he atleast knows how to do some of their Jutsu's. As seen [
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] he was able to fuse with Samahada. And match the same Reflex to dodge a lightning Pencil last second
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. And even was attempting to use one of Kisame's water jutsu's before he died
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.
I'm not saying we have these ninjas perfectly 100% helping us in a sense, just saying they can be used as diversions and attacking. The added attacks from the clones will boost our versatility greatly! And ofc KKG will not and cannot be used, but standard Fire ball jutsu's and Stone golem's are not far-fetched. As well as the fact that since the chakra of the ninja is coped perfectly (
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) he has access to their Jutsu's if he knows the hand seals. It's similar to Kakashi with the sharingan; He has 3 chakra Natures (Lightning, water and earth), if he combats a ninja with the same nature (Zabuza with water) with the ability of his sharingan only copying the handseals, he could use the same Jutsu the opponent used (Zabuza water jutsu's). And since Zetsu Seen all the ninja's I listed Fight, he can use their Standard Jutsu's since he has their same Chakra type and everything else perfectly! (just not as smart or better then the OG)
And with Zetsu not knowing Ma and Pa are what will keep Oru in sage mode:
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Zetsu seen the entire fight With Jman and Pain. Plus he seen the entire fight with Naruto and Pain as well. Do not underestimate the info Zetsu has brotha! haha And it wouldn't take a genius to put one and one together. Zetsu would know the Sage frogs are a threat and ofc taking them out (like pain did) would make sense. And just in case you didn't know the Spore Zetsu
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, thus
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. and the same thing with Naruto would happen
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. Now ofc they Spore Zetsu will suffer afterwards, but the point would be to cancel and end all Sage mode transformations. This Strategy will be more then enough to catch you off guard.
Do not underestimate What Bee and Sama could do. Bee will no doubtfully out speed everyone on your team, being able to
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and
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with no diff is nothing for him. Then Go into V2 just as fast and
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while you are still doing a combo jutsu with the sages (that i don't see them doing it perfectly like Jman did with them, but that is left to the judges). Bee has Way too many outs for any jutsu either has shown!
With The clones plus Power of Bee, we have a answer for everything you might do. Just know everything you might think of doing (jutsu's etc) there will be a Zetsu Clone at every opening we get to fuq shit up. You will either A) Cancel your attempt at a jutsu, & try to avoid said Zetsu sneak attack. Or B) continue your Jutsu and be affected and throw a wrench in your plans. Either Way You will have to come with a plan to combat the small platoon I have created since Bee>>>Either, and Zetsu helps with the Tactics and Power.
Doable explanation but you are still underestimating the extent of Orochimaru's research on Hashirama's genetic material. In context of being detectable, Zetsu spores can entirely be contrasted to the Mayfly Jutsu: The Hōshi no Jutsu has no chakra of it's own. Which means that it cannot be sensed via the regular sensory methods, Sharingan or Byakugan since no Chakra signature can be pinpointed or differentiated. It means that if a Zetsu spore were to be placed to any inanimate object, no sensor would be able to recognize any difference between the two. It is identical as with the Kagerou Jutsu where Zetsu merges his body with the Land in order to conceal his presence:
Databook said:
This infiltration technique is characteristic of Zetsu. It allows him to merge his body with the ground and flora and travel at high speed.
Draegod, the only thing you've reasoned is why Kagerou is undetectable by regular sensory methods. Orochimaru devised a method to entirely detect the presence of not just spores but of Hashirama's cells which is Zetsu's entire composition. Since Orochimaru is able to make this differentiation then he would be able to detect and completely recognize Hashirama's cells hiding within the composition of a tree (mayfly) or perhaps within the composition of a human being (Sasuke). It's already been clarified:
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Thus saying that Orochimaru would not be able to do so based on 'no regular sensor has been able to detect Zetsu using Kagerou' is only an assertion and nothing more. My strategy for eliminating Zetsu then remains intact. Also, using spores on Senjutsu users would not be a wise idea as it would only cause them to immediately grow into regular Zetsu. There is no vulnerability for suprise elements against two true Sages since not only is Zetsu critically lacking in the speed and reaction time that would be necessary to do so but the
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aids their
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ability. An SM naruto would not have been caught by a tree root; bad example. The Intel being full indicates that my team is aware of Bee's sealing Jutsu and how it works; since Orochimaru and a Kage-bunshin would be facing Bee then they produce a sufficient number of Snakes either orally or by hand to eliminate the clones.
Taking the entire scan into consideration, it only reinforces my previous point that White Zetsu Clones are subpar in terms of strength [
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].
You said:
And you are incorrect on "It's already been noted that once these clones take a significant amount of damage the Jutsu is cancelled.", As seen [here] the Zetsu Kisame was decapitated yet kept everything the same for hours until Zetsu him self deactivated the Jutsu.
So in terms of Durability, they are elite! And with Zetsu watching basically ever ninja he atleast knows how to do some of their Jutsu's. As seen [here] he was able to fuse with Samahada. And match the same Reflex to dodge a lightning Pencil last second [here]. And even was attempting to use one of Kisame's water jutsu's before he died [here].
No need to take that segment out of context. This was only possible because Zetsu would have shared Chakra with Samehada; basically enhancing his abilities within the jutsu and enabling him to perform Jutsu of the copied Shinobi however, he is weak on his own.
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You said:
The only reason The shape shifting with ended with the Fodder Clones used in the war was because they weren't the Main Zetsu Clones, they were the weaker 100000 clones used in the war. The Clones I created are the Stronger OG ones used to clone Kisame Perfectly. So that should end if they are "durable".
Again, Spores cannot disrupt Sage mode. The toads continually gather and balance Natural energy for Orochiamru, once spores absorb Natural energy they immediately
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and since Orochimaru is capable of identifying Hashirama's DNA the entire idea is negated so your strategy is out the window bro.
You said:
Do not underestimate What Bee and Sama could do. Bee will no doubtfully out speed everyone on your team, being able to jump high and move far with no diff is nothing for him. Then Go into V2 just as fast and fire off TBB's while you are still doing a combo jutsu with the sages (that i don't see them doing it perfectly like Jman did with them, but that is left to the judges). Bee has Way too many outs for any jutsu either has shown!
@ Bold: 1) You're exaggerating 2)You underestimate Sennin Modo combination of Sensing ability and reflex against high speed opponents [
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-
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]. Naruto's Initial Rasen-Shuriken counters Tailed Beast Version 2 and Bee isn't directly hitting either of my team mates due to their sensing abilities.
You said:
With The clones plus Power of Bee, we have a answer for everything you might do. Just know everything you might think of doing (jutsu's etc) there will be a Zetsu Clone at every opening we get to fuq shit up. You will either A) Cancel your attempt at a jutsu, & try to avoid said Zetsu sneak attack. Or B) continue your Jutsu and be affected and throw a wrench in your plans. Either Way You will have to come with a plan to combat the small platoon I have created since Bee>>>Either, and Zetsu helps with the Tactics and Power.
You keep making claims of your team being 'too much' to maintain and yet haven't proven so in any wise. Orochimaru or a bunshin simply covers the battle field with Snakes of various which then proceed to bite and infect any Zetsu clone which shows itself with Venom and it is incapacitated. There are also other elements you have failed to take into consideration: If bee hits Orochimaru in base or V1 he infects him with the curse seal; Bee's V1 and Base loses to frog Kata's, All Zetsu clones could be taken down by a minimal amount of SM Kagebunshin from each of my pieces. You'll have to dance better than this.
Doable explanation but you are still underestimating the extent of Orochimaru's research on Hashirama's genetic material. In context of being detectable, Zetsu spores can entirely be contrasted to the Mayfly Jutsu: The Hōshi no Jutsu has no chakra of it's own. Which means that it cannot be sensed via the regular sensory methods, Sharingan or Byakugan since no Chakra signature can be pinpointed or differentiated. It means that if a Zetsu spore were to be placed to any inanimate object, no sensor would be able to recognize any difference between the two. It is identical as with the Kagerou Jutsu where Zetsu merges his body with the Land in order to conceal his presence:
Draegod, the only thing you've reasoned is why Kagerou is undetectable by regular sensory methods. Orochimaru devised a method to entirely detect the presence of not just spores but of Hashirama's cells which is Zetsu's entire composition. Since Orochimaru is able to make this differentiation then he would be able to detect and completely recognize Hashirama's cells hiding within the composition of a tree (mayfly) or perhaps within the composition of a human being (Sasuke). It's already been clarified:
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Thus saying that Orochimaru would not be able to do so based on 'no regular sensor has been able to detect Zetsu using Kagerou' is only an assertion and nothing more. My strategy for eliminating Zetsu then remains intact. Also, using spores on Senjutsu users would not be a wise idea as it would only cause them to immediately grow into regular Zetsu. There is no vulnerability for suprise elements against two true Sages since not only is Zetsu critically lacking in the speed and reaction time that would be necessary to do so but the
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aids their
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ability. An SM naruto would not have been caught by a tree root; bad example. The Intel being full indicates that my team is aware of Bee's sealing Jutsu and how it works; since Orochimaru and a Kage-bunshin would be facing Bee then they produce a sufficient number of Snakes either orally or by hand to eliminate the clones.
Taking the entire scan into consideration, it only reinforces my previous point that White Zetsu Clones are subpar in terms of strength [
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].
No need to take that segment out of context. This was only possible because Zetsu would have shared Chakra with Samehada; basically enhancing his abilities within the jutsu and enabling him to perform Jutsu of the copied Shinobi however, he is weak on his own.
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Nice try but this is false, entirely.
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Again, Spores cannot disrupt Sage mode. The toads continually gather and balance Natural energy for Orochiamru, once spores absorb Natural energy they immediately
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and since Orochimaru is capable of identifying Hashirama's DNA the entire idea is negated so your strategy is out the window bro.
@ Bold: 1) You're exaggerating 2)You underestimate Sennin Modo combination of Sensing ability and reflex against high speed opponents [
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-
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]. Naruto's Initial Rasen-Shuriken counters Tailed Beast Version 2 and Bee isn't directly hitting either of my team mates due to their sensing abilities.
Good Joke xd
You keep making claims of your team being 'too much' to maintain and yet haven't proven so in any wise. Orochimaru or a bunshin simply covers the battle field with Snakes of various which then proceed to bite and infect any Zetsu clone which shows itself with Venom and it is incapacitated. There are also other elements you have failed to take into consideration: If bee hits Orochimaru in base or V1 he infects him with the curse seal; Bee's V1 and Base loses to frog Kata's, All Zetsu clones could be taken down by a minimal amount of SM Kagebunshin from each of my pieces. You'll have to dance better than this.
The reason this isn't standing with me is because the spores and Zetsu using Mayflower are not one in the same. When Zetsu becomes one with the Planet he can travel anywhere any time on any surface (even water). You cannot detect what cannot be detected in a sense since he can simply pop up instantly where you least expect it. Plus the fact When they do "travel using mayflower" they have no "body to attack" since they are "one with the earth". To put it simpler:
Ex: 1. I use mayflower
2. You use mole tech to attempt to travel
3. Lets assume you can sense; what are you sensing?
4. I can be on top of a tree instantly, did you know that? Maybe (since we are assuming), can you stop it? NO!
4a. I'm now on top of water in a lake, did you know that? Maybe. Can you stop or match the speed? NO!
The point is, when Mayflower is in use whether you can sense their presence or not doesn't matter since im faster then you at doing what I do best. So that is all for not since Oru cannot catch zetsu ever while using mayflower! Like EVER!!! (and this is us assuming Oru can sense them)
Sage mode Naruto being caught by MULTIPLE roots doesn't matter, since to avoid it he would have to cancel what he initially planned or get caught. Ex:
1. Naruto tries to power up a RS (or
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)
2. Between the charge time Zetsu roots attempt to bind naruto, Naruto senses the roots (Lets assume, even though it wouldn't grant absolute reaction to everything in the manga (even Kabuto been caught a few times))
3. Naruto either A. Stop and dodge the roots, B. Get caught in the roots. Only options, either way it will affect him some how. Tactics like this set up would be combos from Bee. The zetsu's where never meant to go for kills on an immortal like being Oru and a Skilled SM user like Naruto.
You underestimate Ink clones. They were able to Counter and lock on to
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and
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no diff.To think Clones (not OG) would stop them easily would be foolish when they can block and defend just like other clones. And Naruto cannot spam clones while in sage mode so Bee has them beat in the spam department since he has more chakra then both of your ninjas combined (non kyubi naruto). The Zetsu Clone durability with Kisame part still stands since you cannot dispute the fact it's head was smooth off and plenty time past and the jutsu was still in affect. The clones can and will stay in their transformed state until Zetsu turns it off or they die (which ever first doesn't matter).
Your Zetsu cannot absorb Sage chakra argument is flawed since they were not absorbing, they were simply in dormant. The difference being if the
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that would be enough to stop sage mode (naruto and petra, petra didnt feel the side effects from sage mode till it absorbed too much). And spores absorb really
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, so even if after they fall from after effects with senjutsu they did their job. So your entire "they cannot absorb" isn't backed up since they weren't trying to when on sasuke, they were merely in dormant doing nothing.
You overrate the SM users and underrate a ninja who is able to match
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(Also not he moved faster then naruto could complete his shadow clone jutsu at point blank range from a distance, Very fast!) and V1. Bee is no doubt faster then Both ninjas no argument! His speed feats far out class anything they have ever shown. And with
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in conjunction with
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plus
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and
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it will not be difficult to combat either user. And just so you know Oru doesn't have the same Reflex and sensing SM Naruto has (since he is suppose to be a "what if" jman like incomplete sage mode user, otherwise this what if isn't happening since I already showed and explained reasons). So although Naruto has SM reflexes that doesn't mean he is unstoppable or
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. And just so you know, the 3rd Raikage wasn't "Blitzing", he was simply running forward (being controlled by kabuto because kabuto didn't want to kill Naruto).
To think Oru automatically injects Curse seals with zero time is laughable at best. He has to first Survive the hit and take zero damage from bee, then
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and attempt to bite the opp, while opp is not in movement and off guard,
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. Bee is too fast for that, Bee will not be held down ever by anything ORU does. Bee in V1 is protected by the chakra that is hard enough to deflect
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. SO unless your saying Oru's regular teeth are harder then steel and are one of the few things that can get past V1 chakra ima need to see links please! Bee will never ever be affected by CS, that idea is a joke at best bro! Especially when he can protect himself with octopus tail to take the bite as well then detach the tail affected.
Next; You assume Random snakes (
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) will be a problem for bee and his team. The snakes are just there to be there. They will have no affect what so ever. Then you state Frog Kata will beat Bee? haha Bee easily tanks them hits with V1/V2. If Naruto attempts to go even a few seconds with V2 Bee he gets raped no question!
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no diff. So him Blitzing through the clearly weaker clones in mere seconds is no problem. Or he can simply
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while Zetsu surprise attacks as well.
How does Naruto/Oru put down bee? Please don't say Kata as if he can finish him with them
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. Oru has Zero way to beat Bee and has no way to conter V2 Lariats or V1 Lariats unless your stating
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. Please don't say Oru has Perfect sage mode sensing while in this make believe SM for this debate. Plus with the Ninja Zetsu Clones we have their standard abilities to aid us in the Supposedly spam able Oru clones. We have you all beat in numbers and surprise. Ink Clones plus Zetsu Clones Plus Zetsu Spore clones Plus Zetsu Peferct copy ninja Clones with Bee is simply too much for your team.
I did this one quickly Bro just because I kept you waiting since I forgot. Apologies again. And if I forgot to reply to something just let me know.
Holy sh*t you guys caught me off guard with this debate, i was asked to judge this months ago but ill get in the judging today or tomorrow, busy with college stuff
Dubious effort by the both of you. I will get to this as soon as possible. I'll try my best to get to this tomorrow, but this week has a lot going on in terms of graduation and prom that I have to attend, but it will be judged. Intricately at that.
