[VS] [Debate] Six Hokage vs Team Uchiha

[salamander uchiha]

- The important point is Kakashi won't use KB just to escape genjutsu, while in character and he has to create an opportunity if he is going to use KB for feints.

Kage Bunshin aren't immune to Genjitsu and Itachi caught Kakashi's Kagebunshin in a genjutsu. Itachi can also cast Genjutsu on multiple opponents on mass and control them via genjutsu (confirmed by Shukaku). Even if it weren't possible we have Madara there who can see through Bunshin so it won't matter either way.

 

[A$AP Wap]

- The important point is Kakashi won't use KB just to escape genjutsu, while in character and he has to create an opportunity if he is going to use KB for feints.

You can't read.

- I'm curious, what do you think about the Hokage's moves and how they win with them? If you think there isn't any OHKO's being done, than that means; no Mokuton GG, no Flying Thunder God (FTG) GG, No Katsuya slime GG, no Rasengan GG, no Bijudama GG, no speed Blitz GG.

If you think fights are centered around "one move kill" then you don't have a place in this thread like I said earlier.
That "___ move gg" shit isn't going to work in actual debates especially ones of this kind.

Better yet, you just listed the other team's moves and deliberately ignored them as if they're useless.

- The anime fight with Danzo is 99% filler, the only thing that we know happened in the manga is that Danzo took Shisui's eye. As far as the circumstances of the fight are concerned, there's nothing known. Anything could of happened, Danzo could of had one of his ANBU, poison and than while he's weak take he took his eye, literally anything could of happened. The Danzo thing can't be used as evidence for anything.

If you can come to a conclusion that anything an happen in a fight, why is your only defense is "___ move kill gg" in this debate? You're a joke.

Itachi can cast genjutsu through his crows. He has been stated to fully control a person with his illusions. How does Hashirama break out of it? Minato can't break out of it whatsover given his lack of feats not to mention even hype. Bringer of darkness can be deflected with superior doujutsu. Sasuke can cover the five in Enton barricades and kill the approaching enemy. Or they can hide behind the Yata Mirror. I doubt ST can warp spiritual objects like former and Totsuka. *Itachi's speed is instant; he tangoed and almost killed Bee in a CQC fight. Warping is impossible I believe, in this certain scenario. **So, he (Itachi) isn't losing in a battle of speed. I don't wanna hear the piss poor excuse that is Naruto was holding back. Been there, done it. Let's call it a day. Sasuke can also use a subtle genjutsu and trap a war veteran like Danzo who lived Tobirama's time period, saying it'll trick him (Tobirama) isn't a stretch in all honesty. He could lure him into the trap he lays for him, ie; luring him into Enton Kagutsuchi and Susano'o's arm shattering strength, which he used against Danzo. Koto oneshots once he looks at them. Tsukiyomi can also probably oneshot ( Itachi have hinted to not require eye contact to cast his genjutsu in the manga; iirc he did it in the novels though it might not be canon).

Uchihas win. They outsmart the Hokage team in all categories in my opinion.

You're assuming if they're caught with the Genjutsu. Team Hokage can use Shadow Clones/Bringer of Darkness to counter and you also downplayed Kamui as if it isn't dangerous...

*You also called Itachi's speed Instant... /facepalm lmao. This is ridiculous.
**You said Itachi isn't losing in speed when Minato and Tobirama are in the same battlefield. Like...

Y'know what, nevermind. I'm done reading that.
Your whole post was throwing neck at the Uchihas and overrating them while ignoring Team Hokage. Why did you even attempt to include your bias input in the thread?

Don't be a twat. Team Uchiha is full of intelligent fighters & Madara can literally discern clones if his assistance is needed. The OP even says to take into account people's personality & what we know is that the Hokages in general don't use clones all day long. 2 of them may be incapable of creating more than about 5, Kakashi & Minato, and 1 has literally never used a single clone the entire manga, Tsunade.
I didn't bother providing a counter explanation to clones simply because I didn't view the argument as strong enough. Same for your Bringer of Darkness argument. Why the **** would a genjutsu from a Senju be effective on an Uchiha? There's a reason Hashirama never used it on Obito or Madara. Now compare Obito & Madara's fortes to Shisui's own. Shisui's forte IS genjutsu, Bringer of Darkness is not stopping him.

And you really can't believe Shisui actually fought Danzo if Shisui wanted Danzo's plans to be carried out. Danzo fell to Sasuke's MS genjutsu despite it being inferior to Itachi's own MS, do you really think Shisui couldn't snare Danzo with Koto, which is considered the strongest genjutsu outside of IT?

So your reasoning as to why Hokages can't use Shadow Clones to avoid Genjutsu is "they don't use them".
If I remember correctly throughout the war Shadow Clones were used and were pretty useful.
Kakashi avoided Itachi's Genjutsu using Shadow Clones, he uses them frequently.
Hiruzen also used them to use Reaper Death Seal against Hashirama and Tobirama so they're pretty helpful.

Also;

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Itachi had no surprise in his facial expressions. He was likely acting like he got fooled. I find it hard to believe a trained assassin and bunshin expert like him to fall for such tricks.

lol... this prime example of Uchiha Fanboy.
When Itachi clearly said "no wonder my Genjutsu didn't work on you" he was fooled.

Why participate in debates if you're going to be bias? This shit is ridiculous if you're bias and can't look at both sides and form a decent argument then why post? You guys are making yourselves look dumb as hell, smh.

All I'm seeing is neck thrown at Team Uchiha while severely underrating Team Hokage as if they're a bunch of Fodder Jonin, lol, I see NB nowadays is even worse.

 

[Uverdore9]

You're assuming if they're caught with the Genjutsu. Team Hokage can use Shadow Clones/Bringer of Darkness to counter and you also downplayed Kamui as if it isn't dangerous...

*You also called Itachi's speed Instant... /facepalm lmao. This is ridiculous.
**You said Itachi isn't losing in speed when Minato and Tobirama are in the same battlefield. Like...

Y'know what, nevermind. I'm done reading that.
Your whole post was throwing neck at the Uchihas and overrating them while ignoring Team Hokage. Why did you even attempt to include your bias input in the thread?



So your reasoning as to why Hokages can't use Shadow Clones to avoid Genjutsu is "they don't use them".
If I remember correctly throughout the war Shadow Clones were used and were pretty useful.
Kakashi avoided Itachi's Genjutsu using Shadow Clones, he uses them frequently.
Hiruzen also used them to use Reaper Death Seal against Hashirama and Tobirama so they're pretty helpful.

Also;

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lol... this prime example of Uchiha Fanboy.
When Itachi clearly said "no wonder my Genjutsu didn't work on you" he was fooled.

Why participate in debates if you're going to be bias? This shit is ridiculous if you're bias and can't look at both sides and form a decent argument then why post? You guys are making yourselves look dumb as hell, smh.

All I'm seeing is neck thrown at Team Uchiha while severely underrating Team Hokage as if they're a bunch of Fodder Jonin, lol, I see NB nowadays is even worse.

The probability of him being fooled is much lower than the probability of putting a facade. He faced his kin why'd he go serious. You should analyze the manga a bit and not just read. When character X genuinely get caught off guard, exclamation marks are shown. The fact he had none proves my point. Yes his speed is instant. He traversed considerable distance before Naruto could reflex to the stimuli thereby occurred. You could see his arm position not to mention bodily adjustment are effectively the same as they were prior. Read the lines written in the panel. Don't give me the usual "holding back" excuse as he was still an enemy in thier point of view.

Spoiler

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[DHOH]

Is this what the versus section is now? Just a bunch of insults. Damn where are the Mods.

 

[Master Omi]

If you think fights are centered around "one move kill" then you don't have a place in this thread like I said earlier.
That "___ move gg" shit isn't going to work in actual debates especially ones of this kind.

Better yet, you just listed the other team's moves and deliberately ignored them as if they're useless.

If you can come to a conclusion that anything an happen in a fight, why is your only defense is "___ move kill gg" in this debate? You're a joke.

Really? Why didn't you answer my question: "I'm curious, what do you think about the Hokage's moves and how they win with them?"

Which moves do they win with?

The Uchiha are outnumbered, with powerful opponents, their best option is to control their opponent. Shisui and Itachi in particular are genjutsu masters. Just what do you think is going to happen, anyway? Itachi is going to use MS jutsu and so is Shisui. Yes Kakashi can use KB, but IC he doesn't create a KB, simply to deal with genjutsu. If it landed, Tsukuyomi would be disastrous against any hokage, except Hashirama, no matter if they use KB or not. KB isn't going to help against it.

 

[Mellanoma]

You're assuming if they're caught with the Genjutsu. Team Hokage can use Shadow Clones/Bringer of Darkness to counter and So your reasoning as to why Hokages can't use Shadow Clones to avoid Genjutsu is "they don't use them".
If I remember correctly throughout the war Shadow Clones were used and were pretty useful.
Kakashi avoided Itachi's Genjutsu using Shadow Clones, he uses them frequently.
Hiruzen also used them to use Reaper Death Seal against Hashirama and Tobirama so they're pretty helpful.

While yes Shadow Clones is a decent counter it wont be so easy to use as a counter against TEAM uchiha considering both Madara and Sasuke can see through the shadow clones and ultimately inform their brethren of who the real target is.

Bringer of Darkness is an illusion technique of the eyes, which Sharingan and Rinnegan can see through. This is confirmed by the fact Hiruzen could Smell and Hear meaning it only impacts sight making it useless against Uchiha.

Furthermore,

Hashirama's own friends are impacted by it as well considering Orochimaru noticed the darkness disappear himself.

Spoiler

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This implies Bringer of Darkness doesn't simply impact the person its casted on but seems more like an Area of effect genjutsu.


With that said it would make the fight pure Sensing from Team Hokage vs Full Team uchiha with normal vision which is bad for Team Hokage.

 

[Jinrou]

While yes Shadow Clones is a decent counter it wont be so easy to use as a counter against TEAM uchiha considering both Madara and Sasuke can see through the shadow clones and ultimately inform their brethren of who the real target is.

Bringer of Darkness is an illusion technique of the eyes, which Sharingan and Rinnegan can see through. This is confirmed by the fact Hiruzen could Smell and Hear meaning it only impacts sight making it useless against Uchiha.

Furthermore,

Hashirama's own friends are impacted by it as well considering Orochimaru noticed the darkness disappear himself.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

This implies Bringer of Darkness doesn't simply impact the person its casted on but seems more like an Area of effect genjutsu.


With that said it would make the fight pure Sensing from Team Hokage vs Full Team uchiha with normal vision which is bad for Team Hokage.

Actually the point about Sharingan vs Bringer of darkness makes sense. But when is it shown Sasuke can also differentiate Shadow clones from the original?

 

[salamander uchiha]

Actually the point about Sharingan vs Bringer of darkness makes sense. But when is it shown Sasuke can also differentiate Shadow clones from the original?

How so? The sharingan can see chakra, it's colours and through illusions. Bringer of darkness only works on those with normal eyes.

 

[A$AP Wap]

While yes Shadow Clones is a decent counter it wont be so easy to use as a counter against TEAM uchiha considering both Madara and Sasuke can see through the shadow clones and ultimately inform their brethren of who the real target is.

Bringer of Darkness is an illusion technique of the eyes, which Sharingan and Rinnegan can see through. This is confirmed by the fact Hiruzen could Smell and Hear meaning it only impacts sight making it useless against Uchiha.

Furthermore,

Hashirama's own friends are impacted by it as well considering Orochimaru noticed the darkness disappear himself.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

This implies Bringer of Darkness doesn't simply impact the person its casted on but seems more like an Area of effect genjutsu.


With that said it would make the fight pure Sensing from Team Hokage vs Full Team uchiha with normal vision which is bad for Team Hokage.

I've already broke down how the situation would play out in an earlier post.
and Bringer of Darkness completely blocks opponent's sight. How could Sharingan see through it?
They'll be affected by the Genjutsu and be vulnerable to a team of Ninja who can sense.

Especially Minato, he can go around blitzing as soon as Bringer of Darkness is in affect.

 

[Mellanoma]

I've already broke down how the situation would play out in an earlier post.
and Bringer of Darkness completely blocks opponent's sight. How could Sharingan see through it?
They'll be affected by the Genjutsu and be vulnerable to a team of Ninja who can sense.

Especially Minato, he can go around blitzing as soon as Bringer of Darkness is in affect.

I just explained to you that bringer of Darkness won't work because it's a visual illusion and visual illusions dont work on Sharingans / Rinnengans.

I could see if it was like Hidden mist which uses chakra based mist to shroud the sharingan vision but it isn't. It's an actual illusion.



BUT for the sake of argument lets say Hashirama Bringer of Darkness does work.

You really think it would work against the 4 greatest genjutsu users in the series based on feats/hype?

Itachi
Obito
Madara
Shishu

All have feats of EXTREMELY powerful (Broke the manga) genjutsu feats yet Bringer of Darkness which was countered by old man hiruzen would work?

Situation if BOD does work.

Itachi could easily use a "Genjutsu reflection" to counter BOD or Shishu could cast KA on hashirama before he even has the chance to cast BOD.

Shishu's KA doesn't even require eye contact. He could easily use 1 KA on Tobirama and 1 KA on Minato effectively removing team Hokages Sensors thus making them all vulnerable in BOD.

Obito could absorb his brothers into Kamui land. Especially since if BOD is active Kakashi can't Kamui snipe.

Sasuke can provide cover by allowing his brothers into his Susanoo and shrouding it with amaterasu for defense. This will negate all offensive capabilities with the exception of Minato's BM

 

[A$AP Wap]

I just explained to you that bringer of Darkness won't work because it's a visual illusion and visual illusions dont work on Sharingans / Rinnengans.

I could see if it was like Hidden mist which uses chakra based mist to shroud the sharingan vision but it isn't. It's an actual illusion.



BUT for the sake of argument lets say Hashirama Bringer of Darkness does work.

You really think it would work against the 4 greatest genjutsu users in the series based on feats/hype?

Itachi
Obito
Madara
Shishu

All have feats of EXTREMELY powerful (Broke the manga) genjutsu feats yet Bringer of Darkness which was countered by old man hiruzen would work?

Situation if BOD does work.

Itachi could easily use a "Genjutsu reflection" to counter BOD or Shishu could cast KA on hashirama before he even has the chance to cast BOD.

Shishu's KA doesn't even require eye contact. He could easily use 1 KA on Tobirama and 1 KA on Minato effectively removing team Hokages Sensors thus making them all vulnerable in BOD.

Obito could absorb his brothers into Kamui land. Especially since if BOD is active Kakashi can't Kamui snipe.

Sasuke can provide cover by allowing his brothers into his Susanoo and shrouding it with amaterasu for defense. This will negate all offensive capabilities with the exception of Minato's BM

i think you're confused.
Bringer of Darkness is a AOE that blocks sight, not an actual visual Genjutsu.

Tobirama is a sensor so he'll have no problem fighting without his eyes in both situations, also he has a history fighting Uchiha so I doubt he'll get caught up in a Genjutsu as easily as you make it seem. Other Hokage can just use Shadow Clones/Literally any Ninjutsu to keep the Uchiha on their toes to avoid their Genjutsu as stated earlier.

Also, Tsunade can summon Katsuyu for the acid and she can heal etc etc, I've stated counters to Genjutsu idk why you're still stuck on it.

as I said before,
if they were to fight Team vs Team, Hashirama and Madara would go off and fight alone & Minato would keep Obito busy.
the main fight would be Tsunade/Minato/Tobirama/Hiruzen/Kakashi vs Itachi/Sasuke/Shisui.

Based off the chemistry Obito and Madara showed in the Manga together, I doubt Madara would sit there and fight together with the Uchiha while Hashirama is there. He'd immediately go off and fight with him 1v1.

 

[Mellanoma]

i think you're confused.
Bringer of Darkness is a AOE that blocks sight, not an actual visual Genjutsu.

Ah ok, that's where the misunderstanding is coming from.

Bringer of Darkness is a Genjutsu

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Its a "technique" that cast an "illusion" of darkness



Genjutsu (幻術, Literally meaning: Illusionary Techniques)