[Debate] Sasori of the Red Sand (Amaterasu) versus Mei Terumi (Ghost in the Shell)

[Amaterasu]

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Looks like it's time to get serious.

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Spoiler

The Third Kazekage is a powerful weapon, and Sasori's strongest tool. It gives Sasori the ability to utilize the Magnet Release, and manipulate the Sandaime's legendary Iron Sand. It also contains multiple blades and a buzz saw hidden within one of its arms, and has a seal inplanted into the other that allows it to summon one thousand long puppet arms, and one of the arms contains a tube that exudes a poisonous fog. All of these weapons, including Iron Sand, are laced with Sasori's paralyizing poison as well. Sasori's fans take great delight in manipulating Iron Sand to its maximum potential, and it is one that Sasori can weave mostly to his human core's content, but it does have limits. For starters, when formed into shapes, Iron Sand is rather slow to form [

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][

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][

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] and sometimes requires Sasori to utilize the magnetic apparatus stored within the Kazekage's chest to increase the material's magnetism [

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][

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], which increases the prep time for his attacks. Also, when Sasori is attacking with his Iron Sand shapes, notice how Sasori is only able to attack with one block at a time [

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][

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], and Sasori had to dodge when his block was

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instead of detaining it with his own magnetic manipulation. Also take note of how Sasori

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near Chiyo and cherry blossom-san when he brought out multiple shapes + IS wings [

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]. When Sasori used Satetsu Kaihou, he specifically said that it'd take a good amount of chakra [

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]; to use this technique he needs to merge two large Satetsu entities of opposing magnetic forces. This all leads me to believe that there is an explicit limit to how Sasori can manipulate Satetsu, and that it is not at all free flowing and fluid like Gaara's sand. In regards to flight, sure he can take suspend himself with Satetsu. But using attacks while flying will be difficult for Sasori to pull off since he needs to focus on the magnetism of one action he executes with Satetsu, and multitasking with it takes more chakra as we saw with Satetsu Kaihou. So do not think that Sasori can just simply pepper Mei with attacks while flying considering Satetsu's constraints and what Mei can do to stop him (which I'll get further into below). In regards to the Sandaime's blades, 1,000 arms, and his other dandy weapons excluding satetsu, Mei is a mid to long range fighter and the match starts at forty meters, so I do not believe that Mei will get caught by these weapons or even find herself trapped within the 1,000 arms with the strategy I'm going to outline and when we consider her seal speed, jutsu execution speed, the scale of her attacks, and her reactions.

First, I've got nothing to say on the possibilites of Mei taking out Hiruko, difficult to make an argument for it, since it showed zero speed feats and can be

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(Early pt.2 Sakura). It's safe to say Mei has enough strength to destroy it.
Secondly, I disagree on the fact that Iron Sand is slow to form, it is safe to say than it was less than 3-5 seconds MAX. You said that he needed a good amount of chakra to do Satetsu Kaihou, he just said that he would use a bit of chakra.​

Spoiler

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Even at forty meters, Sasori's puppet is really fast, the 3rd traveled

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, even when they were this far

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.
Finally, I don't think she would harm him or even his puppets if he goes into 100 puppets Mode, she would be overwhelmed, she wouldn't know about the poison and dies a terrible death.​

Frankly, I don't even think that this match will get to the point where Sasori can utilize his 100 puppets and I really don't know how Amaterasu will use them, so I just won't even bother with it in this post. If Amaterasu does choose to use it, then I will counter accordingly in regards to why Sasori won't get to use them, and what Mei herself can do to counter.

Now, onto why Pinocchio gets melted into a nice clear paste on the ground. u_u

Nothing to say here​

Generic Strategy Title, Phase One

Spoiler

snip

During this time, I expect that Sasori, being the intelligent shinobi he is, will opt to rid himself of Hiruko and bring out the Third Kazekage. Note that getting out of Hiruko and summoning the Third Kazekage is a relatively slow process [

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] (along with physically ejecting himself out of the puppet). This is a fight where both fighters have very little to no intel to go off by, so he won't be aware of the properties of Mei's Boil Release until he starts to experience its effects. This is also where this fight will get rather ugly for Sasori. Let's take a look at the databook entry for Mei's acidic mist jutsu.

@bold It is faster than you think as I said above, it is probably a second or less than two-three seconds

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.
Do not forgot the rooftop is open, if not sasori can easily destroy it himself, to evade the acid mist.

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. Once here, he can use

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from a higher distance, Mei won't be aware of Poison until it starts to be effective on her body.

The Iron Sand spreads in spikes that branch off irregularly, making it almost impossible to get a clear overview of what is happening. This also makes evading the spikes nearly impossible. Even if the opponent has managed to evade getting hit, the Iron Sand spikes will have filled the entire surroundings, cutting off any escape routes. With the opponent trapped, the user is free to attack in person.

With Sasori soaking the Iron Sand in his lethal poison, the technique is even deadlier, as one nick will bring fatal repercussions.

​

When Mei fired Youton: Youkai no Jutsu at Sasuke's ribcage susano'o [

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], the susano'o was left relatively unscathed with only minor signs of Youton's melting effect due to not being exposed to the technique for very long [

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][

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]. However, the second Mei's Boil Release surrounded Sasuke, not only was his

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. The effect of the mist was so potent, that he started

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a couple of seconds after.

Sure, his skin started to burn, but the coughing and the physical pain that you showed were because of the overusing of Susanoo,

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​

Sasori does not have a physical body and does not experience pain, but this does not mean that the mist won't immediately start eating into and melting his wooden body, along with the chakra strings he needs to control the Kazekage puppet since the manga and databook state that it can melt physical and tangible manifestations of chakra. Not only will it melt his puppet body, it will also melt his core of human flesh. Sasori doesn't have a defense necessary to withstand the effects of the mist for much time considering that Sasuke's ribcage susano'o is the reason why he lasted so long and why he wasn't experiencing even more pain, so he will have to escape the mist somehow. In regards to how quickly the acidic mist can spread throughout the cave, it seems that Futton and Kirigakure no Jutsu are spat out at the same rate [

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][

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]. When Mei used Kirigakure, Mei was

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from Madara and her Hidden Mist enveloped the surrounding area immediatly and progressively covered the rest of the battlefield in a very short amount of time [

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][

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][

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] (while lightened v2 Ay blitzed Mu and Madara, so clearly a very short amount of time). Mei's mist reached Sasuke in practically an instant [

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], and the two were

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far away from each other. Madara and Mei weren't very far away from each other just like Sasuke and Mei weren't yet both variations of mist reached their opponent very quickly. In a relatively large cave, it'll only take a matter of seconds to cover it whole, and the time it takes to cover the cave will tie into the amount of time Sasori takes to get out of Hiruko and summon the Third Kazekage.

Like Sasori would let Mei use her jutsu without doing anything ? He perfectly has the time to summon the Third Kazkage during the time the mist is covering the area. (

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) And as you said, Sasori does not feel pain, so that won't do anything during the first seconds, Sasuke managed to move while being melted (with a normal body enduring pain.). You're ignoring the fact that he was enduring pain by maintaining his Susanoo for too long, so the Susanoo didn't protect him of this mist.
Mei and Madara weren't very far from each other, like Sasuke and Mei weren't, as you said. They were closer than the distance between Sakura and Sasori for example

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; Mei and Sasori would be in a further distance (40m), so the mist won't cover the area as fast as you're expecting​

Generic Strategy Title, Phase Two

Spoiler

Now that Mei has set up her acidic mist across the cave and has forced Sasori into a corner with her suiton and said acidic mist, she can control the tide of the battle and choose several routes. Sasori will most likely attempt to utilize Iron Sand to levitate and try to get the **** out of that cave of horrid, melting death. However, his ability to control his puppets will be hindered significantly by the acidic mist melting the chakra threads, his own puppet body, and the puppet body of the Third Kazekage.

Then, he will change his mode to "100 puppets", he can use fire to stop the mist.

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, she would be overwhelmed by the 100 puppets, if he has the time to kill her before the mist melt him or his chakra threads. Like I already said, he can destroy the rooftop and have a better position to beat her.​

Spoiler

If he attacks Mei, Mei can simply propel herself using a suiton dragon above the cave and on top of the rocks [

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] to gain a better vantage point. From this vantage point, she can douse the area all over the cave with Youton [

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][

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] to corner Sasori even more, or shoot it at his Iron Sand if possible then harden it to make Sasori put in more effort to control it. If Sasori is able to step on a block or shape of IS (which forms slowly, may I remind), Mei can fire a water dragon at him to force him to either dodge or put up shield, but then Mei can use the water that will be hitting his Satetsu shield to form a water pillar that'll overwhelm Sasori's shield and knock him down. Throughout all of this, of course, Sasori will also have a hell of a time trying to deal with Futton. Should a worst case scenario arise, Mei can occult her position and movements with Kirigakure no Jutsu to give her a chance to reset and gauge her position, and possibly move to another position using shunshin or her water dragon to propel herself. I'll leave it at this for now.​

Spoiler

​

@Bold It won't harden it that much, the IS is already very hard, it would add just a bit more difficulty to use them.

Sasori won't dodge the Water Dragon, the IS already shown a greater

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than Mei's Water techniques, and the large AOE of this attack should also clear up the mist. Bunta did something similar that pushes away a dust cloud that previously engulfed Pain -->

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Sasori got this in the bag, as defensively than offensively.​

​

 

[Team7monaa]

Honestly, what stops Mei from using boil release in conjunction with suiton to vaporise any incoming puppet and send Sasori flying.

 

[New Dawn]

mei's jutsus are fodder like. remember how a bunch of fodder ninjas performed suitons from their mouths to stop maddy's katon? her spit jutsus smell bad that was why madara didn't bother absorbing them. KKG my ass. Madara said her jutsus are not worthy to be absorbed.

 

[Unorthodox]

I could beat both of them in a 2v1 debate. Anyways make this interesting

 

[Ghost in the Shell]

First, I've got nothing to say on the possibilites of Mei taking out Hiruko, difficult to make an argument for it, since it showed zero speed feats and can be

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(Early pt.2 Sakura). It's safe to say Mei has enough strength to destroy it.
Secondly, I disagree on the fact that Iron Sand is slow to form, it is safe to say than it was less than 3-5 seconds MAX. You said that he needed a good amount of chakra to do Satetsu Kaihou, he just said that he would use a bit of chakra.​

Spoiler

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Agreed with Hiruko.

However, you misunderstood several things. If Iron Sand takes three to five seconds to form, then that just proves my point as it takes him that long to prep his attack whereas Mei can launch several attacks

consecutively​

in that very same time frame (refer to her feat against Madara). That puts Sasori's prep time above Mei's prep time in regards to jutsu execution and speed. To attack with shapes, Sasori needs to form his Iron Sand first, but do you think that Mei will just sit idly and watch in awe as satetsu takes shape...? I don't think so. Not when she can interrupt or detain him from prepping his attacks with quick, large scale suiton attacks. Mei can use Water Pillar, then Water Dragon (or vice versa) much faster than Sasori takes to fully form his satetsu blocks and shapes, and he wouldn't have even begun to attack by then. This is why IS forms slowly, as most shinobi around his level have the means to prep jutsu from varying ranges faster than Sasori can prep his IS blocks, and this is even worse for him against Mei, who has shown justu execution speed feats above a good deal of kage level shinobi.

In regards to Satetsu Kaihou, it's clear that it takes a significant amount of chakra, more chakra than he normally uses to manipulate satetsu, otherwise he wouldn't have bothered mentioning it. The manga has shown over and over that if a shinobi makes a statement about a technique taking a certain amount of chakra in regards to using a technique or executing some action, then said technique or action will take more chakra than normal. The words in that scan aren't even a Viz translation so we can't be sure that he even said "a bit of chakra"; it could have been a translator's mistake. Also, "a bit of chakra" is a vague phrase doesn't have to be taken literally as it could mean more than just a bit as the manga context and Sasori's words imply. Point is, if Sasori really only expended "a bit" of chakra as that likely flawed translation says, then it wouldn't have been noteworthy enough for Sasori to mention.​

Even at forty meters, Sasori's puppet is really fast, the 3rd traveled

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, even when they were this far

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.
Finally, I don't think she would harm him or even his puppets if he goes into 100 puppets Mode, she would be overwhelmed, she wouldn't know about the poison and dies a terrible death.​

Hmm, so Sasori starts in Hiruko and Mei will have Futton up by the time the Kazekage puppet gets summoned but Sasori will be blitzing Mei with this puppet when it'd be better for him to attempt to escape?... Anyways the Third Kazekage puppet's speed isn't anything that Mei cannot react to, especially when Chiyo was able to react to its striking speed at short range [

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][

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], and Mei's reactions are above Chiyo's... I see that you also posted a scan of cherry blossom-san getting "blitzed" while she was actually constrained and trapped within Satetsu Kaihou. The funny thing about that instance is that even then cherry blossom-san

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to the Kazekage's speed, and I'll once again bring up the point that Mei's reactions are better than cherry blossom-san's at that part of the manga.

Now you're also mentioning the 100 puppets for some reason while simultaneously talking about what Sasori can do with another puppet. I'm interested to know what you think Sasori will even use that technique, especially when Sasori's strongest and most favorite puppet is the Third Kazekage itself [

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], and by his natural progression, it'd go Hiruko -> Third Kazekage -> 100 puppets as the manga showed. This battle isn't reaching the 100 puppets but this technique isn't a problem and arguably less dangerous than the Third Kazekage in this battle, so I'll counter it below since you alluded to it anyways.

As a final note for this part of your post, Mei having no knowledge on the poison is irrelevant given her fighting style, the starting distance, and the strategy I layed out. Mei will utilize suiton against Sasori both at the beginning of the match, and during the later stages of the match as well in order to knock him down and push him back to prevent him from escaping her acidic mist. This will wash off the poison from all of Sasori's weapons including the weapons stored within his own interior, and the washed off poison will just dilute into the water. In the event that she gets hit with one of Sasori's attacks (which I do not think is likely), she'll unknowingly be saving her own life.​

@bold It is faster than you think as I said above, it is probably a second or less than two-three seconds

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.
Do not forgot the rooftop is open, if not sasori can easily destroy it himself, to evade the acid mist.

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. Once here, he can use

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from a higher distance, Mei won't be aware of Poison until it starts to be effective on her body.

The Iron Sand spreads in spikes that branch off irregularly, making it almost impossible to get a clear overview of what is happening. This also makes evading the spikes nearly impossible. Even if the opponent has managed to evade getting hit, the Iron Sand spikes will have filled the entire surroundings, cutting off any escape routes. With the opponent trapped, the user is free to attack in person.

With Sasori soaking the Iron Sand in his lethal poison, the technique is even deadlier, as one nick will bring fatal repercussions.

​

?... You're contradicting yourself a bit here. You initially said that it'd take three to five seconds for IS to form into shapes. Well, your first estimate was correct, and I'll explain why.

Spoiler

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In these scans where he used Satetsu Shigure as spears, you can see that the sand forms progressively and slowly, indicated by Sasori's speech in the top left panel, and by the movement of the iron powder. The spears didn't form until the

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. Not very fast (around three to four seconds I'd say).

Spoiler

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Here, we see the same thing, except that he has to release more Iron Sand from the Kazekage puppet, and we see in the bottom panels the very progressive formation of the Iron Sand blocks over several panels. They also weren't formed until the

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. This most likely takes a bit longer than forming smaller Iron Sand shapes (about four seconds). Understand that manga panels are stilled but depict movement as quickly as they can, and progressive movement and formation over several panels can't signify at all that the process is fast by any means. Also, as long as we're talking about prep time, some of his techs require the use of his

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, which further increases said prep time.

The stone ceiling is already destroyed. I'd also like to know why you think attacking Mei with Satetsu Kaihou is the best option when the mist will have already enveloped most if not the entirety of the cave by the time he summons the Third Kazekage. I'd also like to know how you think Sasori will escape the mist. Escaping the mist is the best and most wise option to choose first, and Sasori can do two things that I know of.

1. Use the Sandaime's Iron Sand to levitate himself out of there.
2. Use the long, metal cable stored inside his hollow stomach to propel himself out of there.

These two things aren't going to happen, not when Futton will immediatly melt his very fragile chakra strings along with the rest of his body at a quick rate. Not when Mei can fire off a water dragon at him to interrupt his action and either force him to dodge or put up a shield, then use the water from the water dragon to form her large water pillar and knock him down. Not when Sasori actually has to release Iron Sand from the puppet's body [

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][

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] and then form it into a shape; I already went over how long this will take. For the second option, he'll have to remove his cloak and fire his cable onto one of the rocks [

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][

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], increasing his and the Sandaime's (if it is brought out, which in all likely hood it will be) exposure to the very potent acidic mist. Mei easily intercepts him with her large water dragon. Now If Sasori chooses to attack with Satetsu Kaihou... then that'll be asking for a death wish as that action leaves him vulnerable to get knocked down with a suiton (he can't defend himself and use his best IS attack at the same time), he'll have all of the Iron Sand drop or cease from forming his attack as he'll be unable to complete the action, and he'll prolong his exposure to the mist. And if by some miracle he's able to get himself out using the cable, he'll be forced to leave the Sandaime back due to the melting chakra strings, which will damage the puppet even more and likely even render its functions useless.
​

Sure, his skin started to burn, but the coughing and the physical pain that you showed were because of the overusing of Susanoo,

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​

Hmm, looks like you may have a point here as I inspect these manga scans a bit closer, but this doesn't change my point to be honest. Sasuke had a defense against acid mist that let him withstand the acid mist for a while. Sasori won't have this advantage. He's going to melt away rather quickly to be honest, with no defense anywhere near close to a ribcage susano'o that was getting melted at a good rate [

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][

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][

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], and notice that in that last scan Sasuke did show signs of physical pain as the acidic mist ate away at his skin, but what made that physical pain somewhat bearable was the fact that he still had susano'o protecting him.​

Like Sasori would let Mei use her jutsu without doing anything ? He perfectly has the time to summon the Third Kazkage during the time the mist is covering the area. (

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) And as you said, Sasori does not feel pain, so that won't do anything during the first seconds, Sasuke managed to move while being melted (with a normal body enduring pain.). You're ignoring the fact that he was enduring pain by maintaining his Susanoo for too long, so the Susanoo didn't protect him of this mist.
Mei and Madara weren't very far from each other, like Sasuke and Mei weren't, as you said. They were closer than the distance between Sakura and Sasori for example

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; Mei and Sasori would be in a further distance (40m), so the mist won't cover the area as fast as you're expecting​

Sasori ejecting himself out of Hiruko after getting battered and thrashed about by large scale suitons (which will have him drowning for a decent couple of seconds), then summoning the Third Kazekage, then release satetsu from the puppet is going to lag his already slow transition from the former puppet to the latter puppet. This gives Mei more than enough time to spread out over the entire cave. You already agreed that Hiruko gets thrashed into a corner, so why wouldn't she have time to set up the strategy I outlined?... Especially when we consider the speed of her ninjutsu execution and Sasori's slow transitions?... I know that it isn't in Sasori's best interest to sit tight while Mei prepares her strategy (and this applies to Mei too, may I remind you), but with Mei being able to corner him and put hm in a bad spot from the getgo, Sasori won't be able to do much in the beginning. This strategy is adequae for allowing Mei to set up while effectively preventing her oppnent from setting up at the same time. Hiruko jumping isn't a noteworthy feat; I seriously doubt that he'll be able to dodge Mei's large water techniques, and I believe that you already mentioned that it'll get hit rather easily.

In regards to your statements about Boil Release, I think you may have misunderstood my premise and comparison. The area where Mei and the rest of the kages fought Madara is much larger, open space [

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][

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] than our battle location without any significant enclosures. Kirigakure pretty much covered the nearly the entire area faster than or equal to the time lightened v2 Ay took to blitz Mu and Madara, and we saw that the

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where Madara landed after being stricken by Aggravated Rock Fist was all enveloped in mist. Kirigakure and Futton are spat out and travel at around the same rate, so by the time Sasori is able to bring out the Kazekage and his Iron Sand, the acidic mist will have already covered most if not all of the entire cave since a mist that is spat out and travels at a similar rate to Futton covered a larger area in a small amount of time.​

Then, he will change his mode to "100 puppets", he can use fire to stop the mist.

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, she would be overwhelmed by the 100 puppets, if he has the time to kill her before the mist melt him or his chakra threads. Like I already said, he can destroy the rooftop and have a better position to beat her.​

Your strategy here is very vague. After Hiruko, will Sasori bring out the Third Kazekage or his 100 puppets?... Because it's likely that Sasori will bring out the Kazekage, with it being his most powerful weapon, and without having intel on Mei's abilities either. I also already mentioned his natural battle progression (Hiruko-Sandaime-100 puppets). The stone roof is already destroyed as the location of the battle shows in the OP. I already adressed what options Sasori has to escape and why he won't be able to get out of the mist, even though you never explained how he will be able to escape.

Using his flamethrowers is a plausible counter to the mist and all, except that Mei can easily overwhelm his small streams of fire with her large scale suitons, knock him back, and refill the area with acidic mist to replace the mist that has been evaporated. This time, Sasori will have the interior of his body soaked, not only washing away and diluting the venom laced on his weapons, but ruining his flamethrowers as well that frankly don't last very long anyway [

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][

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]. Also, he can't control the Third while using his flamethrowers for obvious reasons, just a side note.
​

@Bold It won't harden it that much, the IS is already very hard, it would add just a bit more difficulty to use them.​

That was my point.​

Sasori won't dodge the Water Dragon, the IS already shown a greater

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than Mei's Water techniques, and the large AOE of this attack should also clear up the mist. Bunta did something similar that pushes away a dust cloud that previously engulfed Pain -->

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Sasori got this in the bag, as defensively than offensively.​

​

So if Sasori won't dodge, then he will block the water dragon, right? If so then that's great, as it gives Mei an opportunity to use the water that'll be hitting his shield to form a large water pillar around him and knock him down, and further increase his exposure to the mist.

You have no proof that slamming down a block of Iron Sand will produce enough force to fully disperse the surrounding mist. If he's even able to pull that off, which is unlikely since Mei's Boil Release greatly hinders his ability to control his puppets and he probably won't be able to use his chakra strings much if at all, then it'll only swat away a miniscule amount of mist (similar to how Bunta only swatted away a small amount of of the dust cloud in the scan you posted) that'll quickly get refilled by the mist diffusing back into the area it isn't occupying. Does an Iron Sand block even produce as much force as a bijuu sized creature swatting his large sword down on the ground with his strength?... I doubt that as well.

Anyways, since you alluded to 100 puppets being used, I'll pretend for a minute that Sasori will choose to use it instead of the Sandaime. That is going to be a mistake as the only option he's left with in escaping from the mist is using his long metal cable, which I already countered. Not to mention that this S-Rank technique will end in a flop of hilarious proportions after all those chakra strings get insta-melted and his puppets all fall down on him. Also, I believe that

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is the range of his technique. Mei's massive water pillar can casually blow those puppets back along with Sasori himself.

Anyways, back on course with my strategy. With Sasori being unable to set himself up before Mei's acidic mist fills the cave, he'll most likely be unable to control his puppets adequately let alone at all since those strings will melt away immediately, and he'll be dealing with his fingers and eyeballs melting away as well. I'd also like to point out that the source of all of his chakra and physical energy, which is his core of human flesh, melting away also can't be good news at all. Sasori using his flamethrowers is a viable option to counter the mist (that is if it even still works since the acidic mist will seep into the openings of his puppet body and cause his weapons and tools to malfunction), but Mei can easily counter that with suiton as I already outlined, and this gives her time to refill the area with mist. With Sasori knocked down, she can propel herself on top of the rocks above the cave as I outlined in my opener to give herself a better vantage point. From here, she can throw all of Sasori's attempts right back at him with the scale and strength of her Water Release (though she can do this from the ground as well), and douse the surrounding area with Youton to corner Sasori even further. If Youton hits Sasori once... Sorry Pinocchio but that's GG. Overall, Sasori can't do much about Futton in regards to countering it, or escaping it with Mei being able to counter him effectively, and Youton here is an instant game over if it hits.​

 

[Mugen Onsa]

I could beat both of them in a 2v1 debate. Anyways make this interesting

I can most likely take shits that are better than your arguments Unorthodox.

 

[Amaterasu]

Agreed with Hiruko.

However, you misunderstood several things. If Iron Sand takes three to five seconds to form, then that just proves my point as it takes him that long to prep his attack whereas Mei can launch several attacks

consecutively​

in that very same time frame (refer to her feat against Madara). That puts Sasori's prep time above Mei's prep time in regards to jutsu execution and speed. To attack with shapes, Sasori needs to form his Iron Sand first, but do you think that Mei will just sit idly and watch in awe as satetsu takes shape...? I don't think so. Not when she can interrupt or detain him from prepping his attacks with quick, large scale suiton attacks. Mei can use Water Pillar, then Water Dragon (or vice versa) much faster than Sasori takes to fully form his satetsu blocks and shapes, and he wouldn't have even begun to attack by then. This is why IS forms slowly, as most shinobi around his level have the means to prep jutsu from varying ranges faster than Sasori can prep his IS blocks, and this is even worse for him against Mei, who has shown justu execution speed feats above a good deal of kage level shinobi.​

Even if she could prep his Water attacks, Sasori could use IS in a defensive purpose, doubt Water Dragon could destroy it, it was never destroyed by attacks like these. And I already talked about IS destructive capability

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, which is greater than Mei's water attacks.​

In regards to Satetsu Kaihou, it's clear that it takes a significant amount of chakra, more chakra than he normally uses to manipulate satetsu, otherwise he wouldn't have bothered mentioning it. The manga has shown over and over that if a shinobi makes a statement about a technique taking a certain amount of chakra in regards to using a technique or executing some action, then said technique or action will take more chakra than normal. The words in that scan aren't even a Viz translation so we can't be sure that he even said "a bit of chakra"; it could have been a translator's mistake. Also, "a bit of chakra" is a vague phrase doesn't have to be taken literally as it could mean more than just a bit as the manga context and Sasori's words imply. Point is, if Sasori really only expended "a bit" of chakra as that likely flawed translation says, then it wouldn't have been noteworthy enough for Sasori to mention.​

Even if Satetsu Kaihou takes a "significant" amount of chakra, we saw that Sasori used alot of techs after that

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,

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However, the use of Satetsu Kaihou could probably harm Mei, no need to use 100 puppets if it's happen.​

Hmm, so Sasori starts in Hiruko and Mei will have Futton up by the time the Kazekage puppet gets summoned but Sasori will be blitzing Mei with this puppet when it'd be better for him to attempt to escape?... Anyways the Third Kazekage puppet's speed isn't anything that Mei cannot react to, especially when Chiyo was able to react to its striking speed at short range [

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], and Mei's reactions are above Chiyo's... I see that you also posted a scan of cherry blossom-san getting "blitzed" while she was actually constrained and trapped within Satetsu Kaihou. The funny thing about that instance is that even then cherry blossom-san

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to the Kazekage's speed, and I'll once again bring up the point that Mei's reactions are better than cherry blossom-san's at that part of the manga.​

I already took the fact that Hiruko could be destroyed at the start of the battle, if you read our both first paragraphs. Mei wouldn't react to the Third if she's constrained like that considering the fact that Sakura used antidote, Mei wouldn't have antidote, right + we've got no real scans of Mei reacting to an attack, or show it to me.​

As a final note for this part of your post, Mei having no knowledge on the poison is irrelevant given her fighting style, the starting distance, and the strategy I layed out. Mei will utilize suiton against Sasori both at the beginning of the match, and during the later stages of the match as well in order to knock him down and push him back to prevent him from escaping her acidic mist. This will wash off the poison from all of Sasori's weapons including the weapons stored within his own interior, and the washed off poison will just dilute into the water. In the event that she gets hit with one of Sasori's attacks (which I do not think is likely), she'll unknowingly be saving her own life.​

As I said already, he can potentially block Mei's Water Attacks with IS, the acidic mist is getting cleared thanks to the AOE of IS's attacks.

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+ She could do nothing against Zetsu spores and didn't even sense it.​

The stone ceiling is already destroyed. I'd also like to know why you think attacking Mei with Satetsu Kaihou is the best option when the mist will have already enveloped most if not the entirety of the cave by the time he summons the Third Kazekage. I'd also like to know how you think Sasori will escape the mist. Escaping the mist is the best and most wise option to choose first, and Sasori can do two things that I know of.

1. Use the Sandaime's Iron Sand to levitate himself out of there.
2. Use the long, metal cable stored inside his hollow stomach to propel himself out of there.

These two things aren't going to happen, not when Futton will immediatly melt his very fragile chakra strings along with the rest of his body at a quick rate. Not when Mei can fire off a water dragon at him to interrupt his action and either force him to dodge or put up a shield, then use the water from the water dragon to form her large water pillar and knock him down. Not when Sasori actually has to release Iron Sand from the puppet's body [

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] and then form it into a shape; I already went over how long this will take. For the second option, he'll have to remove his cloak and fire his cable onto one of the rocks [

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], increasing his and the Sandaime's (if it is brought out, which in all likely hood it will be) exposure to the very potent acidic mist. Mei easily intercepts him with her large water dragon. Now If Sasori chooses to attack with Satetsu Kaihou... then that'll be asking for a death wish as that action leaves him vulnerable to get knocked down with a suiton (he can't defend himself and use his best IS attack at the same time), he'll have all of the Iron Sand drop or cease from forming his attack as he'll be unable to complete the action, and he'll prolong his exposure to the mist. And if by some miracle he's able to get himself out using the cable, he'll be forced to leave the Sandaime back due to the melting chakra strings, which will damage the puppet even more and likely even render its functions useless.​

If Sasori uses Satetsu Kaihou instead of escaping the mist first, it won't harm him that much, the mist takes time to burn/irritate, it ain't gonna melt him or his chakra strings completely before he completes Satetsu Kaihou, also I considered that he jumped at the rooftop right here, which makes the mist a lesser threat.
Already put up the clearing of the mist, it won't harm him if he can clear it, thanks to the AOe of IS's attacks, and if he removes his cloak, she is done for.​

Hmm, looks like you may have a point here as I inspect these manga scans a bit closer, but this doesn't change my point to be honest. Sasuke had a defense against acid mist that let him withstand the acid mist for a while. Sasori won't have this advantage. He's going to melt away rather quickly to be honest, with no defense anywhere near close to a ribcage susano'o that was getting melted at a good rate [

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], and notice that in that last scan Sasuke did show signs of physical pain as the acidic mist ate away at his skin, but what made that physical pain somewhat bearable was the fact that he still had susano'o protecting him.​

Sasori won't feel physical pain so it's not a problem, he can still move as quickly as ever, even in the mist, he wouldn't wait the mist to melt him, but rather to finish her fast during that time.​

Sasori ejecting himself out of Hiruko after getting battered and thrashed about by large scale suitons (which will have him drowning for a decent couple of seconds), then summoning the Third Kazekage, then release satetsu from the puppet is going to lag his already slow transition from the former puppet to the latter puppet. This gives Mei more than enough time to spread out over the entire cave. You already agreed that Hiruko gets thrashed into a corner, so why wouldn't she have time to set up the strategy I outlined?... Especially when we consider the speed of her ninjutsu execution and Sasori's slow transitions?... I know that it isn't in Sasori's best interest to sit tight while Mei prepares her strategy (and this applies to Mei too, may I remind you), but with Mei being able to corner him and put hm in a bad spot from the getgo, Sasori won't be able to do much in the beginning. This strategy is adequae for allowing Mei to set up while effectively preventing her oppnent from setting up at the same time. Hiruko jumping isn't a noteworthy feat; I seriously doubt that he'll be able to dodge Mei's large water techniques, and I believe that you already mentioned that it'll get hit rather easily.

In regards to your statements about Boil Release, I think you may have misunderstood my premise and comparison. The area where Mei and the rest of the kages fought Madara is much larger, open space [

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] than our battle location without any significant enclosures. Kirigakure pretty much covered the nearly the entire area faster than or equal to the time lightened v2 Ay took to blitz Mu and Madara, and we saw that the

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where Madara landed after being stricken by Aggravated Rock Fist was all enveloped in mist. Kirigakure and Futton are spat out and travel at around the same rate, so by the time Sasori is able to bring out the Kazekage and his Iron Sand, the acidic mist will have already covered most if not all of the entire cave since a mist that is spat out and travels at a similar rate to Futton covered a larger area in a small amount of time.​

Didn't say Mei won't have the time to to set up her strategy, I said that Sasori won't stand there doing nothing while she is using numbers of jutsus.

Nothing much to say in your second paragraph, but we can't really determinate the distance cause of Kishi's vague writing, so we can only make assumptions right there; also I haven't considered that Sasori could summon the Third before Mei use her mist.
​

That was my point.

Though, it won't change the end of this matchup imo.​

So if Sasori won't dodge, then he will block the water dragon, right? If so then that's great, as it gives Mei an opportunity to use the water that'll be hitting his shield to form a large water pillar around him and knock him down, and further increase his exposure to the mist.

Then, Sasori could dodge it. And doubt Water Pillar can knock him down, he already got his body destrodyed by Sakura's punch

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.
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You have no proof that slamming down a block of Iron Sand will produce enough force to fully disperse the surrounding mist. If he's even able to pull that off, which is unlikely since Mei's Boil Release greatly hinders his ability to control his puppets and he probably won't be able to use his chakra strings much if at all, then it'll only swat away a miniscule amount of mist (similar to how Bunta only swatted away a small amount of of the dust cloud in the scan you posted) that'll quickly get refilled by the mist diffusing back into the area it isn't occupying. Does an Iron Sand block even produce as much force as a bijuu sized creature swatting his large sword down on the ground with his strength?... I doubt that as well.

It would disperse enough mist to save himself from it + If you look here, the cloud was cleared around Bunta.

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. The mist would only diffusing in the air outside to finally disappear.
Do not forgot it is Iron sand, much stronger than Bunta's sword + it was launched at a stronger force than Bunta only swatting his word into the ground.
​

Anyways, back on course with my strategy. With Sasori being unable to set himself up before Mei's acidic mist fills the cave, he'll most likely be unable to control his puppets adequately let alone at all since those strings will melt away immediately, and he'll be dealing with his fingers and eyeballs melting away as well. I'd also like to point out that the source of all of his chakra and physical energy, which is his core of human flesh, melting away also can't be good news at all. Sasori using his flamethrowers is a viable option to counter the mist (that is if it even still works since the acidic mist will seep into the openings of his puppet body and cause his weapons and tools to malfunction), but Mei can easily counter that with suiton as I already outlined, and this gives her time to refill the area with mist. With Sasori knocked down, she can propel herself on top of the rocks above the cave as I outlined in my opener to give herself a better vantage point. From here, she can throw all of Sasori's attempts right back at him with the scale and strength of her Water Release (though she can do this from the ground as well), and douse the surrounding area with Youton to corner Sasori even further. If Youton hits Sasori once... Sorry Pinocchio but that's GG. Overall, Sasori can't do much about Futton in regards to countering it, or escaping it with Mei being able to counter him effectively, and Youton here is an instant game over if it hits.[/FONT][/CENTER]

All you said above is what you already said above. Youton won't hit him, even Karin could avoid Youton, it is a very slow technique, already countered the rest though. I guess judges can talk now.​

 

[Demonic.]

I guess it's time

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[Ghost in the Shell]

Alrighty-righty, the judging may now commence. DemonSenju shall be going first.

Alright time to judge this shit. Before Plebcelerate steals my thunder.

 

[Icelerate]

Demonic gave me the permission to judge first because he didn't want to look bad.

Ghost in the Shell's first post ​

This was a pretty amazing opener IMO.

Location Advantage
First off, Ghost in the Shell talked about how the location benefits Mei due to being near a river and the fact that the cave is mostly enclosed even after the sealing got destroyed.

Dealing with Hiruko
Ghost in the Shell demonstrated how easily Hiruko is dealt with and Amaterasu agreed. The important thing was that Mei can exploit Hiruko's lack of offence/defence to pressure him with suiton while covering the entrance with lava. Once Sasori gets rid of Hiruko, he'll end up using the 3rd Kazekage but GitS showed that this is a slow process allowing Mei to use acid mist before iron sand comes out.

Mei's Speed and reactions
Ghost in the Shell brought up how quickly she traversed the distance between herself and Tsunade as well as made two suiton in quick succession. He brought up how Mei caught Black Zetsu off guard.

3rd Kazekage
I liked how Ghost in the Shell brought up multiple instances of it taking multiple panels to prepare various iron sand attacks compared with just one panel for Mei's jutsus. This proves Mei can use multiple jutsus in the span of time it takes for Sasori to use one. 3rd Kazekage's other weapons were countered with Mei's ninjutsu, speed and range. GitS explained that by the time the 3rd Kazekage comes out, Mei will have spread acid mist around the cave which happens pretty fast so Sasori will start melting while his chakra threads become useless. GitS also proved that Mei is a more mobile fighter and can propel herself with her water dragon while Sasori struggles with the mist. The waterdragon and waterpillar combo was used quite effectively to knock Sasori down into the ground where lava and acid mist will linger.

Amaterasu's first post ​

Location Advantage
Amaterasu forgot that the rooftop was already open.

Dealing with Hiruko
Amaterasu agreed that Hiruko would be easily dealt with.

Sasori's Speed and reactions
The speed feat that Amaterasu linked was flawed because Sakura was trapped in the iron sand world order and the fact that Sakura ended up destroying it either way.

One Hundred Puppets

Amaterasu said that the one hundred puppets will overwhelm Mei but didn't go into depth on how that would be the case. However right afterwards, he agreed with Ghost's point as to the uselessness of the hundred puppets. The flamethrower was a decent counter to the acid mist and could keep the mist at bay for a while but Amaterasu failed to explain how Mei gets overwhelmed that easily especially when she has him backed into a corner.

3rd Kazekage
I liked how Amaterasu demonstrated the deadliness of ISWO and that Sasori could jump upwards to a higher elevation. It's good he didn't focus on the weaker iron sand variants as they aren't going to be as effective in terms of offensive capability. Amaterasu also demonstrated that Sasori isn't going to feel pain so the mist won't hinder his capability as much as it did to Sasuke. He also showed that Hiruko could jump out of the mist's area and then release the 3rd Kazekage to get a better elevation and defence from Mei's mist. He made the point that the starting distance gives Sasori some more time before the mist surrounds him. The Third Kazekage's use of iron sand as an offence as well as defence against the acid mist was a good point when the impact caused debris to start flying. Gamabunta's inferior strike to the ground was able to disperse a portion of the mist as shown by Amaterasu. This comparison was well thought out.

Ghost in the Shell's Second post ​

3rd Kazekage
I agree with Ghost's interpretation of Satetsu Kaihou taking more effort for Sasori to manipulate than his other techs. Ghost made a good point that 3rd Kazekage's speed is nothing for Mei to worry about and that Sasori attempting to enter CQC with Mei is a horrible idea because of acid mist. Unless Amaterasu meant to say that the puppet itself is fast enough to keep up with Mei's ninjutsu and not to blitz her. I see that Ghost ended up misinterpreting Amaterasu's seemingly apparent contradiction in regards to the amount of time it takes for Sasori to prep iron sand. Amaterasu was pointing out it takes 3 to 5 seconds to prep iron sand attacks but that switching to the 3rd Kazekage puppet himself only takes 1-2 seconds. Ghost did point out that Sasori will rather escape the mist instead of attack with satetsu Kaihou and that attacking with satetsu Kaihou spells his demise considering the acid mist contantly interfering with Sasori's puppetry and the amount of prep it takes. Not to mention that Ghost pointed out how Sasori won't be able to defend himself from Mei's suitons if he decides to go on the offensive with Satetsu Kaihou.

As for Ghost's arguments as to how Sasori won't be able to escape the mist, Mei can simply use a water dragon to intercept him and knock him back down whether he uses his grappling hook or a platform of iron sand. Using water pillar with the pre-existing water dragon was a smart strategy because it ensures that even if Sasori managed to somehow block the water, it would still knock him down. Overall, I felt that Ghost had used Mei in such a way that gave Mei multiple options in finishing Sasori whereas Sasori was left cornered, unable to launch an effective attack or defence.

One Hundred Puppets

Ghost said that the acid mist will melt those chakra threads and Mei will destroy those puppets with a water wall. I can't say I disagree with this because Amaterasu failed to give an explanation on how the puppets counter Mei's jutsus.

Suiton
Suiton was used effectively in washing off poison from Sasori's weapons. Suiton was used effectively in causing the flamethrowers to malfunction so it would make it even harder for Sasori to function in the acid mist. It was mentioned that even though Hiruko can jump, it won't evade Mei's suiton so Mei will be able to corner Hiruko while applying mist at which point he'll realize he'll have to escape.

Acid Mist
This was one of Amaterasu's strongest point when he claimed that it was Sasuke's susanoo that caused him to ache and Ghost even conceded to this. I can prove that it was the acid he inhaled which caused him to cough up blood but Ghost conceded here so I'll give the point to Amaterasu. Although it doesn't change the effectiveness the acid mist will have in gradually melting Sasori's puppets while nigh instantly melting his chakra strings making him unable to use his puppets effectively, if at all. I agree with Amaterasu's point that Sasori does not feel pain so the superficial melting effect can be ignored. Once again Ghost pointed out that the mist engulfed the battlefield before Ay attacked Madara.

Later on, Ghost countered the fact that while Sasori may be able to disperse a superficial amount of mist by hitting the ground with iron sand, it would still spread out and Sasori is back to square one without accomplishing much and would give Mei even more time to use her techs all the while preoccupying Sasori.

Amaterasu's Second Post
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Third Kazekage
Amaterasu claimed that iron sand can be used in a defensive manner to counter water dragon but Ghost was using suiton as a deterrent, rather than an attack. Amaterasu failed to explain how Sasori gets Satetsu Kaihou off without Mei being able to stop him as outlined in Ghost's strategy. Amaterasu ignored Mei's speed feats that Ghost had posted in the opener and completely ignored Mei's range game in comparison to Sakura which means she won't get trapped. Amaterasu brought up Zetsu spores but failed to explain their relevancy in regards to this matchup.

Escaping Mist
Amaterasu claimed Sasori would hop above the sealing to escape the mist but he ignored Ghost's explanation on how his attempts at escaping will be futile. It's great that he emphasized on the fact that the mist won't hinder Sasori's physical abilities. Amaterasu claimed that Sasori wouldn't get knocked down by the water pillar but used the fact that Sakura was able to destroy his puppet body as proof which is fallacious because it gives Mei ample time to finish him off. Iron sand's force was explained to be above Bunta's sword strike which would help in getting rid of some of the mist.

Lava
Amaterasu claimed it would be ineffective just because Karin dodged it even though it was only a part of Ghost's strategy.

Final Verdict

Spoiler

After reading this debate, the impression I got was that Sasori won't be able to tag Mei as all his jutsus will get overpowered or interrupted, whereas Mei will be controlling the flow of the fight from start to end. I think Amaterasu could have used poison gas as a deterrent to Mei spitting out jutsu but he didn't capitalize on that. Also Amaterasu was very vague and didn't elaborate very much.

 

[Demonic.]

Demonic gave me the permission to judge first because he didn't want to look bad.

Spoiler

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Psycho Maid

Spoiler

Location

You quickly took advantage of the location (which can benefit Mei) and even mentioned a nearby water source in the area should you have needed it later to further compliment Me's water release jutsu.

Hiruko/Setting up Acid Mist

Dealing with Hiruko should be nothing too complicated, since it is a tool meant to test out the skills of the opponent, and a Kage-Leveled shinobi like Mei should be able to overcome it without too much trouble due to its limited mobility and crap feats. Nevertheless, I liked how you took advantage of Sasori starting out with slow Hiruko in conjuction with Mei’s jutsu execution speed to set up her Boil Release acidic mist which would be a fundamental point in dealing with Sasori once he switches to his third Kazekage puppet.

Dealing with Third Kazekage/ Finishing Sasori

Comparing the velocity of the acidic mist to hidden mist was a good point, and I see no reason to disagree with this assertion, nor did Amaterasu dispute this; in other words, he agreed the cave would be engulfed with the acid mist by the time the third kazekage came out, further pressuring Sasori and hindering his movements. Mei propelling herself with her water dragon was also an innovative counter. I also liked how you brought up the time it takes Sasori to eject iron sand from the puppet and the time it takes to form the shapes, which is not a speedy process by any means; simultaneously, you showed Mei can execute her jutsu more quickly in order to disrupt Sasori's deadlier techniques.. Lastly, you offered a logical conclusion to the ending of the match.

Overall, this was a good opener. I would have liked if you had mentioned dealing with 100 puppets here though.

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Second Post


I agree that Sasori's Iron Sand takes a bit of time to prepare, and I like the evidence you brought up for this, including the amount of chakra it takes (which I found funny you spent a whole paragraph disputing). We are talking a few seconds, but combined with Mei's execution speed, it is fair to say Mei can indeed interrupt Sasori's SK with her own jutsu, which is quite an annoyance for Sasori in terms of offense. Not to mention Sasori still has the acidic mist to deal with, and even though Sasori feels no pain, it still can melt his body away, and quickly, so he cannot be exposed to it long which already has him on the defensive. Knocking down Sasori with water dragon is a good strategy to stop Sasori from escaping and possibly ending the match.

Mei's Suiton unknowingly washing off the poison from Sasori's weapons, which would then dilute in the water was an excellent point along with Mei's Futton melting away Sasori's puppet strings. You also countered Amaterasu's strongest counter to acid mist (the flamethrower) along with his other attempt.


Overall, this post was good and proved to me that Mei has a lot going for her (and is the main aggressor) while Sasori seems to be cornered and on the defensive.

Amaterasu​

Spoiler

Hiruko
I liked how you agreed Hiruko wouldn’t be much of a factor in this fight, since I already addressed in my first post that it is meant to test out an opponent’s skills rather than win matches (excluding fodders like Beginning Part 2 Kankuro) . You also provided a scan of Hiruko jumping alongside Deidara at the Akatsuki hideout along with the 40 meter starting distance to prove Hiruko can distance himself from Mei and her attacks to give Sasori an opening to summon the Third Kazekage puppet.

Sasori’s 100 Puppets
Your post gets a bit unclear and unorganized here. You are listing a speed feat of the Third Kazekage, then you go on to say Mei will become overwhelmed by Sasori’s 100 puppets, but you fail to elaborate more on this and how it would actually play out. Not to mention, you did not bother disputing Psycho’s point about Sasori’s 100 puppets being useless in the fight.

Dealing with Mei
I liked how you mentioned the possibility of Sasori destroying the rooftop/elevating in order for Sasori to use SK from a higher altitude and cover more area. You also used Sasori’s puppet body (which feels no pain) to your advantage in enduring Boil Release (in the early stages of it ofc) and the use of Sasori's flamethrower to help disperse a portion of the mist.


Overall, you made some good points, but your post was a bit shorter than I would have liked plus it was lacking in detail.

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I liked how you used Iron Sand for not only offense but defensive purposes against Mei's attacks. You claimed Mei's Suiton will not destroy Sasori's Iron Sand when Psycho never said it would. I'm also curious why Zetsu spores were mentioned since I see no relevance. Your posts became more vain after this:

the use of Satetsu Kaihou could probably harm Mei, no need to use 100 puppets if it's happen.

You should have further elaborated on how Mei was getting harmed. Psycho spent a good portion of his post elaborating on why Sasori would not harm her, and you failed to challenge or properly counter most of these points, and even ignored some of them.

This was one of Amaterasu's strongest point when he claimed that it was Sasuke's susanoo that caused him to ache and Ghost even conceded to this. I can prove that it was the acid he inhaled which caused him to cough up blood but Ghost conceded here so I'll give the point to Amaterasu

I agree with the fact that Sasori won't be feeling any physical pain at all from the mist. I don't know why my co-judge is bringing this up. Even if it is true it doesn't matter because Sasori is a freaking puppet without organs (bar a heart for chakra) so he won't be coughing up blood from inhaling mist...does Sasori even breathe? :|


The acidic mist being cleared due to the area of effect of Sasori's attacks was a good point. However, this is only a temporary solution and will only succeed in dispersing smaller portions of the mist that can replenish itself, or Mei can release more.

This post could have been improved. You could also have further challenged Psycho Maid's acid mist strategy by having Sasori destroy different parts of the cave with Iron Sand to possibly disperse it.

Final Verdict:

Spoiler

Psycho Maid is the clear victor here. His posts were clear, organized, and backed up with scans. Although Ametarasu made some good points, he was vague at times and did not further elaborate about how Sasori actually deals with Mei's jutsu and puts her down in the end while Psycho spent a good portion of his post explaining why Sasori will not be hitting her and will be forced on the defensive, and even gave possible and logical conclusions to the fight.

Suffice it to say, Psycho was in control of the debate from start to end.