Madara Rules(Killer Bee) vs EjBlack(Kabuto Yakushi)
Location: Itachi and Sasuke vs Kabuto Knowledge: None Intent: To kill Distance: 50 Meter Restrictions: Edo Tensie
Conditions: Killer Bee has Samahada. Kabuto starts in Sage mode.
Judges:
In this debate, only 6 will be chosen. If the judges are known for their bias, they will not be chosen. Only logical and smart ones. We are requesting for judges to join, so if you want to judge then please post.
1-Penguin
2-The Dead Batman
3-Transcendence
4-Zaru
5-
6-?
Rules of this Debate:
I will start start first once my opponent has confirmed he is ready. This debate will be shut down in Sunday 15/12/2013. Anyone who breaks the rules such as:
-Spamming
-Harassing
-Insult
-Character Bashing
-Disturbing the debate
-etc
will immediately be banned from this thread. Please follow the rules and respect the site. So sit back and enjoy.
OT: debate doesn't really have to finish at that certain time. It can go forever, but it can finish once 2 debaters feel like they don't want to post anymore.
Not sure about that. Every time we encounter in a discussion, you disrespect my points, take it into another portion and even threated to make it sig worthy
Not sure about that. Every time we encounter in a discussion, you disrespect my points, take it into another portion and even threated to make it sig worthy
I will go to sleep in a bit because i am tired. I will reply to you when i wake up.
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Killer Bee an incredibly powerful shinobi who has been praised by the likes of Minato, Ay, Kisame and several shinobi of Kumagakure due to his natural talent and strong statues as the Perfect Jinchuuriki. So much that he overwhelmed the Taka singlehandedly without taking the fight serious. With his abilities, he can fight and win against Yakushi Kabuto.
The counters Killer Bee has against Kabuto's arsenal
Senpō: Hakugeki no Jutsu: a Jutsu which flashes light and releases powerful sound immobilizing the victim's body which gives Kabuto the opportunity to defeat them. However, the light that comes from the orb has around 10 seconds activated until it vanishes which depending on how fast Kabuto is moving. Itachi despite feeling the pain of the sound, he still sensed Kabuto's existence [
You must be registered for see links
]. While Killer Bee may not be a sensory shinobi, his tool Samehada is and showed the capability of sensing properties of chakra, what type it is and where its location [
You must be registered for see links
] as displayed by Kisame.
Samehada is most often carrier on Killer Bee's back even since he took as its owner. Samehada will sense Kabuto's chakra and telepathically communicate with Bee to inform him which way Kabuto is coming. This way, the seconds, the orb can be shut down and Bee safe.
Summoning Jutsu: Manada: is a enhanced form of the original Manada. Due to Killer Bee's powerhouse jutsu and size when transforming to Hachibi, Kabuto will need this creature to fight against him. But as i said, Killer Bee is powerhouse and has too much raw and fire-power for Manada to deal with. In case if Kabuto summoned Manada, he will most likely stand on its head like Orochimaru did so he doesn't get caught in the monster clash between them.
It may have a great speed to avoid and strength to crush Bee, but it cannot survive a direct explosion from this:
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A direct TBB like that ^ which destroyed multiple barriers, mountains and created a valley will make Manada dead meat as his original was when taking a hit from Deidara's C0:
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Kabuto will survive it by shedding his skin and healing capabilities. So this leaves Kabuto powerless against Bee's fire-power.
The techniques of 5 Sound Ninja: As displayed against Itachi and Sasuke, Kabuto will pushed back to the point where he will use the techniques of the 5 sound ninja, however Killer Bee has counter for single and each one of them. I will point them out:
Mateki Mugen Onsa: A powerful Genjutsu that even Itachi and Sasuke needed to cast Genjutsu on themselves to escape it. Unfortunately, as stated and shown by Killer Bee, that Genjutsu does not work on perfect Jinchuuriki:
You must be registered for see images
Because of Hachibi being partners with its host, if Kabuto's Genjutsu stroke Bee, then immediately Hachibi will awaken Bee by disturbing his chakra flow as he did in these scans > [
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] [
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]. Thus the Genjutsu is broken and rendered useless on Bee.
Kumosōkai/Spider Web: Its not exactly the type of jutsu that works on someone like Bee. By transforming into either V1 or V2, Bee can use the powerful shock wave of the chakra wrapped around him creating a powerful wind that can burn anything that comes into its range [
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]. That was capable of burning Orochimaru's snakes into ash. The webs will be burned in the same process.
Senpō Muki Tensei: is a jutsu where Kabuto gives life to objects and manipulate them. But remember, he is facing a perfect jinchuuriki which means the landscape gets tossed around. They may be fast enough to hit Itachi, but Bee has reacted to Minato's FTG [
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], Ay's point range punch [
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], so he should be able to react to them while at the same moment, transform into V2.
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While on that form, he can tank them. Also realize that he the shock wave comes out from that transformation, it was able to push back small portion of the ground he is standing on. Those cave looking knifes will tear apart.
Kabuto's Poisons: As we know, Kabuto is doctor and knows the functions of the body and its systems. Killer Bee has no knowledge on poisons telling from his personality. However, if Bee were to bit by that poison only if he is base form, he can still heal from it. The Bijuu chakra has shown the capability of healing at high process such as healing Naruto's injury from Chidori, Obito's massive injuries were healed by becoming Juubi's jinchuuriki and so on. Hachabi chakra will heal Bee's cells if he took that poison. The poison Naruto took from the 2 invaders in their first mission [
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]. Killer Bee should be fine with Hachibi's chakra healing him the whole fight.
With the counters i made for Bee against Kabuto, the fight will soon end with Bee creating a mist of ink [
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], a weak point because of Kabuto's bad vision and charge with this attack:
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Even if Kabuto's regenerates from it, the battle will end with Bee outlasting him. Kabuto's chakra is dwarfed by the levels of Hachibi's that Karin was frightened of.
I will go to sleep in a bit because i am tired. I will reply to you when i wake up.
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Killer Bee an incredibly powerful shinobi who has been praised by the likes of Minato, Ay, Kisame and several shinobi of Kumagakure due to his natural talent and strong statues as the Perfect Jinchuuriki. So much that he overwhelmed the Taka singlehandedly without taking the fight serious. With his abilities, he can fight and win against Yakushi Kabuto.
The counters Killer Bee has against Kabuto's arsenal
Senpō: Hakugeki no Jutsu: a Jutsu which flashes light and releases powerful sound immobilizing the victim's body which gives Kabuto the opportunity to defeat them. However, the light that comes from the orb has around 10 seconds activated until it vanishes which depending on how fast Kabuto is moving. Itachi despite feeling the pain of the sound, he still sensed Kabuto's existence [
You must be registered for see links
]. While Killer Bee may not be a sensory shinobi, his tool Samehada is and showed the capability of sensing properties of chakra, what type it is and where its location [
You must be registered for see links
] as displayed by Kisame.
Samehada is most often carrier on Killer Bee's back even since he took as its owner. Samehada will sense Kabuto's chakra and telepathically communicate with Bee to inform him which way Kabuto is coming. This way, the seconds, the orb can be shut down and Bee safe.
Summoning Jutsu: Manada: is a enhanced form of the original Manada. Due to Killer Bee's powerhouse jutsu and size when transforming to Hachibi, Kabuto will need this creature to fight against him. But as i said, Killer Bee is powerhouse and has too much raw and fire-power for Manada to deal with. In case if Kabuto summoned Manada, he will most likely stand on its head like Orochimaru did so he doesn't get caught in the monster clash between them.
It may have a great speed to avoid and strength to crush Bee, but it cannot survive a direct explosion from this:
You must be registered for see images
A direct TBB like that ^ which destroyed multiple barriers, mountains and created a valley will make Manada dead meat as his original was when taking a hit from Deidara's C0:
You must be registered for see images
Kabuto will survive it by shedding his skin and healing capabilities. So this leaves Kabuto powerless against Bee's fire-power.
The techniques of 5 Sound Ninja: As displayed against Itachi and Sasuke, Kabuto will pushed back to the point where he will use the techniques of the 5 sound ninja, however Killer Bee has counter for single and each one of them. I will point them out:
Mateki Mugen Onsa: A powerful Genjutsu that even Itachi and Sasuke needed to cast Genjutsu on themselves to escape it. Unfortunately, as stated and shown by Killer Bee, that Genjutsu does not work on perfect Jinchuuriki:
You must be registered for see images
Because of Hachibi being partners with its host, if Kabuto's Genjutsu stroke Bee, then immediately Hachibi will awaken Bee by disturbing his chakra flow as he did in these scans > [
You must be registered for see links
] [
You must be registered for see links
]. Thus the Genjutsu is broken and rendered useless on Bee.
Kumosōkai/Spider Web:Its not exactly the type of jutsu that works on someone like Bee. By transforming into either V1 or V2, Bee can use the powerful shock wave of the chakra wrapped around him creating a powerful wind that can burn anything that comes into its range [
You must be registered for see links
]. That was capable of burning Orochimaru's snakes into ash. The webs will be burned in the same process.
Senpō Muki Tensei: is a jutsu where Kabuto gives life to objects and manipulate them. But remember, he is facing a perfect jinchuuriki which means the landscape gets tossed around. They may be fast enough to hit Itachi, but Bee has reacted to Minato's FTG [
You must be registered for see links
], Ay's point range punch [
You must be registered for see links
], so he should be able to react to them while at the same moment, transform into V2.
You must be registered for see images
While on that form, he can tank them. Also realize that he the shock wave comes out from that transformation, it was able to push back small portion of the ground he is standing on. Those cave looking knifes will tear apart.
Kabuto's Poisons: As we know, Kabuto is doctor and knows the functions of the body and its systems. Killer Bee has no knowledge on poisons telling from his personality. However, if Bee were to bit by that poison only if he is base form, he can still heal from it. The Bijuu chakra has shown the capability of healing at high process such as healing Naruto's injury from Chidori, Obito's massive injuries were healed by becoming Juubi's jinchuuriki and so on. Hachabi chakra will heal Bee's cells if he took that poison. The poison Naruto took from the 2 invaders in their first mission [
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]. Killer Bee should be fine with Hachibi's chakra healing him the whole fight.
With the counters i made for Bee against Kabuto, the fight will soon end with Bee creating a mist of ink [
You must be registered for see links
], a weak point because of Kabuto's bad vision and charge with this attack:
You must be registered for see images
Even if Kabuto's regenerates from it, the battle will end with Bee outlasting him. Kabuto's chakra is dwarfed by the levels of Hachibi's that Karin was frightened of.
I won't do an introduction because last time I tried it took me hours of trying to get it done lol. Good intro btw it basically went straight to the point. But it was iffy that you mixed around counter process. Example was using Manda II in your premise, early. At that point both 8 tails transformation and Manda II will destroy the cave at this point. But I'll play by the scenario's given.
Senpō: Hakugeki no Jutsu: a Jutsu which flashes light and releases powerful sound immobilizing the victim's body which gives Kabuto the opportunity to defeat them. However, the light that comes from the orb has around 10 seconds activated until it vanishes which depending on how fast Kabuto is moving. Itachi despite feeling the pain of the sound, he still sensed Kabuto's existence [
You must be registered for see links
]. While Killer Bee may not be a sensory shinobi, his tool Samehada is and showed the capability of sensing properties of chakra, what type it is and where its location [
You must be registered for see links
] as displayed by Kisame.
Samehada is most often carrier on Killer Bee's back even since he took as its owner. Samehada will sense Kabuto's chakra and telepathically communicate with Bee to inform him which way Kabuto is coming. This way, the seconds, the orb can be shut down and Bee safe.
10 secs seems to long, I doubt it. Although I understand it took a couple of pages so lets say seconds will be the right word so it isn't specific. The description of the jutsu is on point. However using Itachi as an example wasn't best to described the effects on him, in his Edo state, then what it was doing to Sasuke. Itachi's body modification, via Edo, enabled him to not feel the same effects exact. As an Edo indeed he can still hear sound and can see light. But the effects that Sasuke described of "rubbing bones against each other" play a role that couldn't enable Sasuke to mold chakra properly. Which Itachi's body had an advantage of enduring, thus mold chakra properly. Your claim for Itachi senses doesn't help either, since Itachi cannot sense. Kabuto thought the same as you are doing and even called Itachi a liar, seen in the same scan you have post. The next page of your scan explains it[
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], which the next statement was, he just predict what his move and motive would of been.
Now your example of something that can sense, via Samehada. Samehada had never shown to sense chakra until 1. He fused with Kisame. 2. Inside Kisame's Jutsu Water Dome. Which is why Kisame said "I" can sense peoples chakra when "I" am fused with Samehada. Kisame cannot sense chakra without it can neither has he done that outside his Water Dome.
But lets say that he can anyway. It still will not be affective counter. Since Samehada is also a living mechanism he will no doubt feel the defining pain of the Sound. It may not have a bone structure but it has living parts that will still be effective from the vibration of the jutsu. The communication will be ruin between the two since the effects of the sound, light, and vibrations will disrupt it. The effects will make sure that they will not mold chakra properly either. And last, Bee is immobilized from the effects which makes him vulnerable for Kabuto to end the match the choice of Kabuto's next move.
Summoning Jutsu: Manada: is a enhanced form of the original Manada. Due to Killer Bee's powerhouse jutsu and size when transforming to Hachibi, Kabuto will need this creature to fight against him. But as i said, Killer Bee is powerhouse and has too much raw and fire-power for Manada to deal with. In case if Kabuto summoned Manada, he will most likely stand on its head like Orochimaru did so he doesn't get caught in the monster clash between them.
It may have a great speed to avoid and strength to crush Bee, but it cannot survive a direct explosion from this:
A direct TBB like that ^ which destroyed multiple barriers, mountains and created a valley will make Manada dead meat as his original was when taking a hit from Deidara's C0:
Kabuto will survive it by shedding his skin and healing capabilities. So this leaves Kabuto powerless against Bee's fire-power.
You made two premises in this post.
1. Kabuto needs Manda II in order to deal with Full BM
2. TBB ends Manda II
Now to break down these two points:
1. You are right and wrong at this point. Lets me cover the wrong part. Just because Kabuto is smaller doesn't mean he is powerless against a Buijuu. Kabuto can indeed take advantages his Gyuki's size with his physical prowess. As we know "natural energy" enables you to boost your physical attributes such as speed, reflexes, and even strength. Example would be Naruto who has a 3.5 category in strength (Keep in mind this was at that time of he manga). He had no feat to be capable of lifting a boulder[
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] until he gather natural energy[
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]. Eventually had gotten better with it to even lift up summonings[
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] and a Buijuu in his conscience[
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]. For Kabuto, who has 3 in strength, being a bit weaker then Naruto can still get the job done boost with natural energy, with maybe a little more struggle. Still not convince with that conclusion? Kabuto also has someones unique ability from Jirobo. Because Kabuto has Jiribo full DNA in his arsenal he can take advantage of using Jirobo's strength. Jirobo's strength gets stronger through CM, which also uses a minor of natural energy, via Senjutsu. Lets take a look at what he can do with full CM[
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][
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][
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][
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][
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]. We can make a conclusion that with Choji's size and weight that they rivals Summonings in general. But the main factor here is what made Jirobo so powerful physical comes through the power of CM boost. But as we know SM boost is much better then CM. So to conclude, Kabuto can expose Jirobo in his stomach with helping hands, to physically overpower Gyuki, with Sage Mode.
2. You acknowledge Manda II speed being decent and I applaud you for that. But he also has keen senses that can benefit his situation[
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]. Kabuto also controls its actions too[
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]. While Bee is gathering the ratio of TBB, Kabuto can develop a strategy with Manda II. With Manda II size it can attack and defend for Kabuto. So how exactly? Well because of its length, Manda can make layers of his body, wrapping around Kabuto, to create a "meat shield" per say[
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]<-- Tiny example, since Manda would be much bigger, longer, and better. And for Offensive, he can attack Bee unexpectedly by traveling underground[
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] and attack be from the back. Manda II from there, gives Gyuki trouble in CQC due to Manda II powerful jaw strike and limbs.
The strategy you made for Kabuto, staying on top of its head, will not be as effective as what I am about to say. Kabuto can hide in it's noses[
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] to be undiscovered. In fact, Kabuto can use the defensive argument I made, as a diversion, to sacrifice Manda II's coiled defense. So Manda II attacking from the ground will, and Kabuto coming out of its noes supporting him, to end Gyuki.
The Extra Point (That might bring hassle into the discussion):It unclear the it is a feat for Manda II since he was never damage but: Kabuto modification experiment has shown that he implant them from his personal summoning. Example was his Hidden Snake tech (according to Kishimoto that classifies it as Summoning)[
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][
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] able to share Kabuto's personal liquidation and regeneration . Fitting in the time-line of these personal modification fits the evidence that shouldn't exclude the snake he created, Manda II. So to deal with it's firepower is simply liquifying, reform the damage it took, and regenerate. Making Manda II good as new.
Mateki Mugen Onsa: A powerful Genjutsu that even Itachi and Sasuke needed to cast Genjutsu on themselves to escape it. Unfortunately, as stated and shown by Killer Bee, that Genjutsu does not work on perfect Jinchuuriki:
Because of Hachibi being partners with its host, if Kabuto's Genjutsu stroke Bee, then immediately Hachibi will awaken Bee by disturbing his chakra flow as he did in these scans > [
You must be registered for see links
] [
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]. Thus the Genjutsu is broken and rendered useless on Bee.
I don't have much to say here, you could be right. I still question that the effects will be the same when the Genjutsu is powered by Senjutsu. Do you simply to the same thing like nothing as change. What made Itachi and Sasuke got out was Yin Release. Wouldn't that be the effective counter to break the Senjutsu Genjutsu?
Can this effect also benefits defeating Frog Genjutsu? This counter is up in the air being effective or not.
Kumosōkai/Spider Web:Its not exactly the type of jutsu that works on someone like Bee. By transforming into either V1 or V2, Bee can use the powerful shock wave of the chakra wrapped around him creating a powerful wind that can burn anything that comes into its range [
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]. That was capable of burning Orochimaru's snakes into ash. The webs will be burned in the same process.
Sorry I don't see Bee using the same exact effects has the one Kyubi has demonstrated. I won't denies he can do the shockwave but the same scaled as a raging Kyuubi is iffy to make the same counter. What I really don't agree on is the V2 burning through the webs, since it's powered by Senjutsu. Enton was the right way the effect and I don't think v2 burn is near the level as Enton. BUT maybe it can in slow process. It is very easy to add more to slow Bee down, little by little[
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]. And eventually envelop the whole thing on him[
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]. With this strong durability, before powered by Senjutsu as shown to even hold more then a ton (comment by Kidomaru[
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]), the shockwave push won't do much to push it's elastic prioritizes will reduce the impact bounce/revert back.
Senpō Muki Tensei: is a jutsu where Kabuto gives life to objects and manipulate them. But remember, he is facing a perfect jinchuuriki which means the landscape gets tossed around. They may be fast enough to hit Itachi, but Bee has reacted to Minato's FTG [
You must be registered for see links
], Ay's point range punch [
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], so he should be able to react to them while at the same moment, transform into V2.
While on that form, he can tank them. Also realize that he the shock wave comes out from that transformation, it was able to push back small portion of the ground he is standing on. Those cave looking knifes will tear apart.
Good counter. There is nothing for me to say here. Muki Tensei is ineffective do to your counters. So my premise will be ONLY to use it for: diversion's, disbalance, and trickery. Basically defensibly wise.
Kabuto's Poisons: As we know, Kabuto is doctor and knows the functions of the body and its systems. Killer Bee has no knowledge on poisons telling from his personality. However, if Bee were to bit by that poison only if he is base form, he can still heal from it. The Bijuu chakra has shown the capability of healing at high process such as healing Naruto's injury from Chidori, Obito's massive injuries were healed by becoming Juubi's jinchuuriki and so on. Hachabi chakra will heal Bee's cells if he took that poison. The poison Naruto took from the 2 invaders in their first mission [
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]. Killer Bee should be fine with Hachibi's chakra healing him the whole fight.
Sorry this is not an effective counter. You cannot heal from poison. The poison must be extracted in order to then heal and nullify. Lets look at your scan. The missing factor was explained by Kakashi in this scan:[
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]. Then Kakashi here states that the poison was being removed to waht Naruto did[
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].
Kakashi also stated that this is the power of the nine tails. Well maybe Kakashi is ignorant, can be the recovery power of the buijuus. Still an ineffective counter of poison and will end Bee.
With the counters i made for Bee against Kabuto, the fight will soon end with Bee creating a mist of ink [
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], a weak point because of Kabuto's bad vision and charge with this attack:
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Even if Kabuto's regenerates from it, the battle will end with Bee outlasting him. Kabuto's chakra is dwarfed by the levels of Hachibi's that Karin was frightened of.
1.I never heard of ink mist. Ink can spread through water which made it look like it did, but that counter is not happening on land.
2. Kabuto is able to fight blind and strictly use Sage Senses/perceptual ability, demonstrated in the manga, that he uses snakes cornea[
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->
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]
Which concludes this part of the counter ineffective to begin with.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What can Kabuto do to deal with Bee's arsenals?
Kabuto has many options to deal with them, lets begin.
Bee's Kenjutsu ownage:
Option A: Clashing with it with Chakra Scapel [
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] to buy time for the next move.
Option B: Using Orochimaru's DNA to fend off. With Bee owning it by slicing and dicing, Orochimaru's True Snakes Form, the body fluids that it produces can end the match[
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]
Option C: Bypassing the invincible spin with Kimmimaru's bones spread, popping around Kimi's body[
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][
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][
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]. Which will ruin his style.
Option D: Webs. They cannot be cut normally to begin with.
Bee's compress power V2!:
Option A: Sakon's Machine gun tech[
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]. This reason why this jutsu will be effective is because of Kabuto's style being used with Chakra Scalpel:
I'll make this quick. I'll be establishing why Chakra Scalpel is on another level with Senjutsu. First is to understand Chakura no Mesu and how it works:
This medical technique forms one's chakra into a small, sharp blade. This can then be used for highly accurate incisions necessary for surgeries and anatomical dissections. Unlike regular scalpels, the chakra scalpel can make cuts inside the body without actually creating an open wound, limiting the risks of an infection.
Bold and underline is the most important factor here. This jutsu is able to attack internally and simply ignoring the external layer of the skin.
Now this quote is Part 1 Kabuto's skill with it:
Because of this requirement, using the chakra scalpel offensively is highly unusual. In heated combat, even the greatest medical-nin won't be able to exert the precision needed to make fatal cuts, but it can still effectively cut muscle tissues and tendons, rendering the target immobile.
But as we seen in Part 2, Base Kabuto had improved to the point that it can become pure chakra blades, that are easily able to cut flesh [
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] and even Mokuton. [
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][
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]. This concludes that with Senjutsu it goes beyond than the cutting feats it has shown in Base Form. And with the ability to damage internally, with senjutsu it should even bypass some Chakra Shroud. And even cut through it the Sakon's Tarenken attack.
Option B: Jiribo's strength and absorption. With Kisame attempt to tank the attack, I believe with Jirobo's Sage Mode strength will be more successful to get a hold V2 tackle[
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]<-little example. What he can do is use Jirobo's ability to absorb the cloak[
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]. Would be as good as Petra Path? Hell to the no, but it can still be effective since this ability is boost through Sage Mode.
Option C: Doki: Makyō no Ran. Using Tayuya DNA to summon her monsters, Kabuto can use the monsters spirit Doki to eat away his physical energy[
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], thus no chakra can be used. They cannot be blocked because they are ethereal and they will easily pass throught physical objects such as a tree[
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] and shiukens[
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]. Thus it will just phase through the chakra cloak eating him away.
Other Methods of Dealing With TBB:
Option A: Change the Trajectory, using Orochimaru DNA, to access gates[
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].
Option B: Using Muki Tensei in time to change the environment land, to change the direction Bee is firing.
Option c: Using Webs elastic priorities to push back the bomb at Bee[
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][
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], forcing him to recover at this point[
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].
Finishing Blows That Were Not Mention:
Option A: (With only V2 making it the only way to stop it from piercing) Sawarabi no Mai. In the end, with Kabuto full attend to kill he will eventually envelop the whole area with bones[
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]. If the damages wasn't enough then it still becomes Kabuto's play field.
Other options would to develop a guided arrow with his land advantage.[
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]. Or what I mention with the Spirit Doki's.
Option B:
Senpō: Dorō Dōmu | Exploit #1
土牢
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Kabuto with Jirōbō's abilities should be capable of trapping the enemy within Dorō Dōmu [
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→
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] which would then proceed to absorb the enemy's Chakra. [
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] Destroying it isn't an option due to the fact that it will simply repair itself once the target does some damage to it and the enemy's Jutsu will be absorbed. [
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→
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][
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→
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] Also look at Kiba's comment. 'The ground as well!' which means that escaping the dome by trying to underground isn't an option. And please do note that this dome is capable of absorbing the enemy's Chakra rather quickly given Jirōbō's comment. [
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] We could furthermore confirm this by looking at what was happening to the targets trapped inside the dome. [
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→
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] Naruto wasn't even capable of forming a Rasengan inside the dome. [
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]
However, Dorō Dōmu has a weak point which Shikamaru found out. [
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] Unfortunately for Kabuto's target, Kabuto's own abilites are enough to take care of that weak point considering that he can strenghten the jutsu with Senjutsu or if the enemy tries to get close to that point in order to destroy it, Kabuto can simply use Senpō: Muki Tensei to produce spikes [
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] from that spot in order to keep the enemy away. Then again, Kabuto could simply produce spikes from the whole insides of the Dorō Dōmu and kill the enemy that way considering that he can't evade the spikes.
Anyways, about the Dorō Dōmu's weak spot. It isn't that easy to break at all considering that they had to use something stronger than even Kiba's Gatsūga [
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] and that happens to be Chōji's Nikudan Sensha. [
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] It will be even harder to break once Kabuto enhances it with Senjutsu and the enemy shouldn't be capable of approaching that spot due to Muki Tensei while enemies with the ability to absorb Chakra won't be capable of absorbing the dome due to the fact that Kabuto will keep on adding Senjutsu to it.
I won't do an introduction because last time I tried it took me hours of trying to get it done lol. Good intro btw it basically went straight to the point. But it was iffy that you mixed around counter process. Example was using Manda II in your premise, early. At that point both 8 tails transformation and Manda II will destroy the cave at this point. But I'll play by the scenario's given.
10 secs seems to long, I doubt it. Although I understand it took a couple of pages so lets say seconds will be the right word so it isn't specific. The description of the jutsu is on point. However using Itachi as an example wasn't best to described the effects on him, in his Edo state, then what it was doing to Sasuke. Itachi's body modification, via Edo, enabled him to not feel the same effects exact. As an Edo indeed he can still hear sound and can see light. But the effects that Sasuke described of "rubbing bones against each other" play a role that couldn't enable Sasuke to mold chakra properly. Which Itachi's body had an advantage of enduring, thus mold chakra properly. Your claim for Itachi senses doesn't help either, since Itachi cannot sense. Kabuto thought the same as you are doing and even called Itachi a liar, seen in the same scan you have post. The next page of your scan explains it[
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], which the next statement was, he just predict what his move and motive would of been.
Now your example of something that can sense, via Samehada. Samehada had never shown to sense chakra until 1. He fused with Kisame. 2. Inside Kisame's Jutsu Water Dome. Which is why Kisame said "I" can sense peoples chakra when "I" am fused with Samehada. Kisame cannot sense chakra without it can neither has he done that outside his Water Dome.
But lets say that he can anyway. It still will not be affective counter. Since Samehada is also a living mechanism he will no doubt feel the defining pain of the Sound. It may not have a bone structure but it has living parts that will still be effective from the vibration of the jutsu. The communication will be ruin between the two since the effects of the sound, light, and vibrations will disrupt it. The effects will make sure that they will not mold chakra properly either. And last, Bee is immobilized from the effects which makes him vulnerable for Kabuto to end the match the choice of Kabuto's next move.
Realize that he felt chakra after infused with Samehada which means the sword gave him the ability to sense chakra and this doesn't need to be in bubble i feel. Samehada has still showed the capibility of sensing chakra even without fusion as shown by this scan > [
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]. Kisame states that he tracked Bee's chakra due to Samehada's taste for powerful chakra. Those who have mastered Sage mode gain a large amount of chakra and powerful. Samehada itself has the capability to sense chakra.
Doubtful. Samehada may be a living creature however, its appearance and body structure shows it doesn't have the human body functions. Based on these scan > [
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]. Kisame who is also capable of absorbing chakra(not to the scale of Samehada) was pushed back with a hole opened. Yet Samehada who was hit directly from Bee's lariat was damaged by bit. This shows Samehada lacks the human and animal functions such as heart, cells etc. Not to mention Sasuke stated that the Jutsu only effected his bones, yet you have twisted it. Samehada wont be effected because it lacks human and animal functions. It should be capable of sensing Kabuto's presence through his Senjutsu chakra and inform Bee to counter attack who should image like this > [
You made two premises in this post.
1. Kabuto needs Manda II in order to deal with Full BM
2. TBB ends Manda II
Now to break down these two points:
1. You are right and wrong at this point. Lets me cover the wrong part. Just because Kabuto is smaller doesn't mean he is powerless against a Buijuu. Kabuto can indeed take advantages his Gyuki's size with his physical prowess. As we know "natural energy" enables you to boost your physical attributes such as speed, reflexes, and even strength. Example would be Naruto who has a 3.5 category in strength (Keep in mind this was at that time of he manga). He had no feat to be capable of lifting a boulder[
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] until he gather natural energy[
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]. Eventually had gotten better with it to even lift up summonings[
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] and a Buijuu in his conscience[
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]. For Kabuto, who has 3 in strength, being a bit weaker then Naruto can still get the job done boost with natural energy, with maybe a little more struggle. Still not convince with that conclusion? Kabuto also has someones unique ability from Jirobo. Because Kabuto has Jiribo full DNA in his arsenal he can take advantage of using Jirobo's strength. Jirobo's strength gets stronger through CM, which also uses a minor of natural energy, via Senjutsu. Lets take a look at what he can do with full CM[
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][
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][
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][
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][
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]. We can make a conclusion that with Choji's size and weight that they rivals Summonings in general. But the main factor here is what made Jirobo so powerful physical comes through the power of CM boost. But as we know SM boost is much better then CM. So to conclude, Kabuto can expose Jirobo in his stomach with helping hands, to physically overpower Gyuki, with Sage Mode.
2. You acknowledge Manda II speed being decent and I applaud you for that. But he also has keen senses that can benefit his situation[
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]. Kabuto also controls its actions too[
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]. While Bee is gathering the ratio of TBB, Kabuto can develop a strategy with Manda II. With Manda II size it can attack and defend for Kabuto. So how exactly? Well because of its length, Manda can make layers of his body, wrapping around Kabuto, to create a "meat shield" per say[
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]<-- Tiny example, since Manda would be much bigger, longer, and better. And for Offensive, he can attack Bee unexpectedly by traveling underground[
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] and attack be from the back. Manda II from there, gives Gyuki trouble in CQC due to Manda II powerful jaw strike and limbs.
The strategy you made for Kabuto, staying on top of its head, will not be as effective as what I am about to say. Kabuto can hide in it's noses[
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] to be undiscovered. In fact, Kabuto can use the defensive argument I made, as a diversion, to sacrifice Manda II's coiled defense. So Manda II attacking from the ground will, and Kabuto coming out of its noes supporting him, to end Gyuki.
The Extra Point (That might bring hassle into the discussion):It unclear the it is a feat for Manda II since he was never damage but: Kabuto modification experiment has shown that he implant them from his personal summoning. Example was his Hidden Snake tech (according to Kishimoto that classifies it as Summoning)[
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][
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] able to share Kabuto's personal liquidation and regeneration . Fitting in the time-line of these personal modification fits the evidence that shouldn't exclude the snake he created, Manda II. So to deal with it's firepower is simply liquifying, reform the damage it took, and regenerate. Making Manda II good as new.
The snake was in return de-summoned due to the heavy damage it took from Deidara [
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]. Which cannot be compared to a TBB that oliberated a mountain [
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]. Kabuto performing that tactic leads to Manada's downfall and possibly Kabuto's if he is hiding inside its nose. You used Gamabunta as example which is terrible because the toad lacks tails to protect it from behind. It doesn't apply for Bee due to packing 8 tails which not can only stretch but its size can even get bigger and hold Sanbi [
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]. Doing that, he can restrain Manada from completely and easily knock it out [
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] or he can slam it down with the bijuu's powerful tails [
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]. Moreover, if Manada got close to Bee, then the latter can use a bijuu shock wave to push it back [
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] and then charge with a
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thus finishing off Manada.
This will only lead to his downfall as the strategy you made which i have countered above. Moreover, lets say it works, what will Kabuto do to harm Bee in his BM?
That wont work because Manada itself is not biologically connected to Kabuto's organs like those snakes were. Stated by Kabuto [
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], Kabuto uses his own body and those snakes are coming from his stomach which means they are connected through cells. Manada is complete separated entity from Kabuto.
I don't have much to say here, you could be right. I still question that the effects will be the same when the Genjutsu is powered by Senjutsu. Do you simply to the same thing like nothing as change. What made Itachi and Sasuke got out was Yin Release. Wouldn't that be the effective counter to break the Senjutsu Genjutsu?
Can this effect also benefits defeating Frog Genjutsu? This counter is up in the air being effective or not.
Sorry I don't see Bee using the same exact effects has the one Kyubi has demonstrated. I won't denies he can do the shockwave but the same scaled as a raging Kyuubi is iffy to make the same counter. What I really don't agree on is the V2 burning through the webs, since it's powered by Senjutsu. Enton was the right way the effect and I don't think v2 burn is near the level as Enton. BUT maybe it can in slow process. It is very easy to add more to slow Bee down, little by little[
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]. And eventually envelop the whole thing on him[
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]. With this strong durability, before powered by Senjutsu as shown to even hold more then a ton (comment by Kidomaru[
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]), the shockwave push won't do much to push it's elastic prioritizes will reduce the impact bounce/revert back.
I don't see why he cant. He has the chakra levels to perform it and more ever, Bee has been shown to destroy a massive land greater than size of konoha if he transformed to Hachibi [
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]. So its not far fetched to say he could demonstrate as V2 Kyuubi taken consideration that Bee is perfect Jinchuuriki. The V2 has a high heat density that even Orochimaru's snakes were burned off when came in contact [
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], this will make it very hard for Kabuto to touch the chakra wrapping Bee. Lol do you honestly think those webs will hold down Bee. Nothing is going to prevent him from instantly transforming into Hachibi:
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Even if Senjutsu were to be added, the ink sealing clones that can seal and immobilize an opponent, Hachibi commented that the technique can seal anything in 3 seconds, yet the 6 Jinchuuriki broke it by transforming into V2. Bijuu chakra is stronger than Senjutsu. I highly doubt those webs will hold down Bee.
Good counter. There is nothing for me to say here. Muki Tensei is ineffective do to your counters. So my premise will be ONLY to use it for: diversion's, disbalance, and trickery. Basically defensibly wise.
Sorry this is not an effective counter. You cannot heal from poison. The poison must be extracted in order to then heal and nullify. Lets look at your scan. The missing factor was explained by Kakashi in this scan:[
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]. Then Kakashi here states that the poison was being removed to waht Naruto did[
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].
Kakashi also stated that this is the power of the nine tails. Well maybe Kakashi is ignorant, can be the recovery power of the buijuus. Still an ineffective counter of poison and will end Bee.
Kakashi has saw it with his eyes that Kyuubi's power was healing Naruto from the poison he took. There is no way he can be ignorant of that since he was hyped to be the smartest character when observing things:
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He had observed Kyuubi's chakra was healing Naruto from the poison and commented that its fine. Not to mention that when Naruto was burning from the Kyuubi's chakra from V2, the chakra eventually heals him noted by Jirayia. I would like to also mention that when Kisame was hit from Lariat, he healed after Samehada gave him chakra which he stole from Bee. The bijuu have supernatural healing capabilities.
1.I never heard of ink mist. Ink can spread through water which made it look like it did, but that counter is not happening on land.
2. Kabuto is able to fight blind and strictly use Sage Senses/perceptual ability, demonstrated in the manga, that he uses snakes cornea[
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->
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]
Which concludes this part of the counter ineffective to begin with.
Kabuto has many options to deal with them, lets begin.
Bee's Kenjutsu ownage:
Option A: Clashing with it with Chakra Scapel [
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] to buy time for the next move.
Option B: Using Orochimaru's DNA to fend off. With Bee owning it by slicing and dicing, Orochimaru's True Snakes Form, the body fluids that it produces can end the match[
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]
Option C: Bypassing the invincible spin with Kimmimaru's bones spread, popping around Kimi's body[
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][
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][
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]. Which will ruin his style.
Option D: Webs. They cannot be cut normally to begin with.
A) The 7 sword dance has proved to formidably fast that Sasuke's Sharingan couldn't keep up with its speed [
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] [
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]. However, i don't think those swords will be a factor due to Kabuto who is mainly a long range fighter and can sense them via Sage mode.
B) Its going to depend whether Bee will use them in base or chakra cloak. But i doubt he will be caught like that considering his speed reaction.
C) It may does but Bee can swing Samehada like this > [
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], with its ability to eat chakra, Bee will break them. The bones may be real bones however, for Kabuto to manifest them, he needs chakra and Samehada absorbs any form of chakra. Bee can also hit him with Lariat that even pushed back his brother who was at V2 that tanked chidori. So if Kabuto were to take one, he would have a hole.
]. This reason why this jutsu will be effective is because of Kabuto's style being used with Chakra Scalpel:
I'll make this quick. I'll be establishing why Chakra Scalpel is on another level with Senjutsu. First is to understand Chakura no Mesu and how it works:
Bold and underline is the most important factor here. This jutsu is able to attack internally and simply ignoring the external layer of the skin.
Now this quote is Part 1 Kabuto's skill with it:
But as we seen in Part 2, Base Kabuto had improved to the point that it can become pure chakra blades, that are easily able to cut flesh [
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] and even Mokuton. [
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][
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]. This concludes that with Senjutsu it goes beyond than the cutting feats it has shown in Base Form. And with the ability to damage internally, with senjutsu it should even bypass some Chakra Shroud. And even cut through it the Sakon's Tarenken attack.
Option B: Jiribo's strength and absorption. With Kisame attempt to tank the attack, I believe with Jirobo's Sage Mode strength will be more successful to get a hold V2 tackle[
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]<-little example. What he can do is use Jirobo's ability to absorb the cloak[
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]. Would be as good as Petra Path? Hell to the no, but it can still be effective since this ability is boost through Sage Mode.
Option C: Doki: Makyō no Ran. Using Tayuya DNA to summon her monsters, Kabuto can use the monsters spirit Doki to eat away his physical energy[
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], thus no chakra can be used. They cannot be blocked because they are ethereal and they will easily pass throught physical objects such as a tree[
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] and shiukens[
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]. Thus it will just phase through the chakra cloak eating him away.
A) Sage mode only adds 30% to the user's chakra as shown by this diagram:
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Spiritual chakra = 50% + Physical chakra = 50% = 100% Natural chakra. Senjutsu will add on 30% of the amount of chakra to its user. So following this formula, Kabuto's chakra blades will be 3x stronger than his natural ones while attaining Sage mode. Now to look at Bijuu version 2 chakra cloaks tanking feats:
[
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] TBB which contain a bijuu chakra that is many times stronger than any form of chakra.
[
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] Sword of Kusanagi hyped to cut through diamonds [
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]. No way Kabuto's chakra blades will cut through V2 cloak.
B) Bee in base tanked his brother's V2 lariat with no damage [
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]. More ever, V2 has incredible tanking capabilities. Not to mention Bee will notice the immense physical strength that Kabuto will have, so Bee could just stretch his chakra arm [
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]. The chakra arm can be manipulated in size and stretch as the user wishes. This can push back Kabuto's physical strength and even burn him if we consider the burning chakra cloak.
C) Read the scan once more. Shikamaru said ''they are nothing but chakra''. As i have shown above, Samhehada has the ability to sense chakra and absorb them. The jutsu is rendered useless to Samehada's capability of sensing them and absorbing them as well.
A)The rashomoun gates were completely destroyed by a weaker version of TBB used in V2, that is if Bee used it in V2, but if he used it on BM then he destroys them completely with Kabuto as well but shedding his skin.
B) It will depend on how big the objects he is manipulating. If its a destroyed land, he cant do anything about it.
C) There is no way the webs will even catch those bombs. Not even close. First, they have to be around the size of the ball, second, how strong they and how much pressure they have because only Mokujin and Juubi can reflect them due to their massive size and pressure.
Option A: (With only V2 making it the only way to stop it from piercing) Sawarabi no Mai. In the end, with Kabuto full attend to kill he will eventually envelop the whole area with bones[
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]. If the damages wasn't enough then it still becomes Kabuto's play field.
Other options would to develop a guided arrow with his land advantage.[
A) You're forgetting that Kabuto is facing a perfect Jinchuuriki. Whether Kabuto creates a land of bones, each and everyone of them will get annihilated by Killer Bee's immense fire-power. If he did that, then Bee can counter it by performing the Hachibi twist:
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B) Again, you're forgetting that Bee is landscape buster which means even if he is surrounded by a barrier of rock, he can blow it up wit the environment surrounding it. Regarding the Jutsu can absorb chakra or not, well Samehada has the capability to absorb chakra as well. If we take Senpō: Dorō Dōmu mechanics as similar to Preta path then Bee should be able to counter it. As shown, the Jutsu creates a barrier of rock (Preta path creates a barrier) and then starts absorbing chakra which is similar fashion to Preta path. Wood dragon was used to counter Preta path [
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]. Wood dragon absorbs bijuu chakra thus growing its size. Samehada also absorbs Bijuu chakra and grows in size [
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]. Following this logic, Samehada can absorb the chakra if Bee is trapped inside Senpō: Dorō Dōmu from Kabuto. If this were to be failed, then Bee can instantly transform into Hachibi thus breaking the barrier.
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Bijuu can produce large amount of chakra instantly. The Jutsu cannot absorb a massive chakra unleashed and thus being broke.
