DBZ - Overrated?

[Miles vi Britannia]

How can you even state that DBZ is overrated when it's done so much for the Anime world. It's the father of all Anime and it should be respected by every single Anime and Manga fan. So many top Anime and Manga wouldn't have existed if it wasn't for the illustrious franchise. DBZ is the only Anime/Manga to achieve Legendary status! and people around the world still vote Dragon Ball the #1 World Class Anime and Manga after 27 years since the first DB Manga was released!! This is what makes DBZ unparalleled, as it's the only Legendary Anime/Manga and the feats that it has achieved! It revolutionized the Anime world!!

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Naruto wouldn't have even existed if it wasn't for the illustrious franchise.

Akira Toriyama's most famous creation, Dragonball became an anime and for Kishimoto this spawned a whole new interest in Manga and Shonen Jump. Near the end of Elementary school, Masashi Kishimoto was strictly a Dragonball fan, he recalls how he was so obsessed with Akira Toriyama, "He was like a god to me, I was constantly drawing characters that appear in Dragonball." At this stage in his life Kishimoto did not recieve an allowance to buy the 190 Yen Jumps, and would have to rely on a friend to show him jump to get his Dragonball fix. It was at this stage in his life that Masashi Kishimoto made a decision that he is not regretting now, and many of his fans are thankful for. He started to think to himself that "Manga sure is great" and that he wanted to become a famous Mangaka like Akira Toriyama. Kishimoto created his first manga around this time entitled "Hiatari-kun", a story revolving around a "Shadow ninja boy".

Still in elementary school, Kishimoto was still obsessed with Akira Toriyama and would spend all of his extra time making his drawings look exactly like his idols. It was then that he saw a game that Akira Toriyama helped develop called "Dragon Quest". The drawings were amazing, but unfortunately for Masashi Kishimoto he did not own a Famicon (Nintendo), which every other kid in his class seemed to own. He certainly could not ask his parents for something of this nature, everytime his father heard the word "Video Game" he would tell Kishimoto to go study. It was then that his twin brother devised a plan to get a Famicon from someone else, but could someone willing to give away something worth 10,000 Yen possibly exist, he did and Masashi Kishimoto began to view this friend as a god.
After he learned of "Akira", Masashi Kishimoto's drawings changed in a big way. He spent hours studying and trying to understand.
Today everything has worked out for Masashi Kishimoto, his dreams of becoming a famous Jump mangaka have come true, his story about that shadow ninja boy, Naruto has become one of the best selling and most popular mangas worldwide. He has certainly shown that he can draw with the best of them, and despite all the adversities, he has succeeded. Masashi Kishimoto is a true inspiration, a true role model, and will go down in history as one of the best and this would have not happened if it wasn't for Akira Toriyama.

Dragon Ball will forever be the greatest Anime/Manga off all time. It's unsurpassable as no other Anime/Manga will achieve the feats that Dragon Ball has achieved. Another Anime/Manga may become Legendary, but Dragon Ball was the FIRST Anime/Manga to become Legendary.

Dragon Ball's influence is undeniable, it definitely shaped the identity of a lot of the popular Shounen manga and anime of today but that alone does not make it "the best." Keep in mind that at its core DBZ is pretty much a kid's show and will appeal to them most, as seen by the fast-paced action and generally light-hearted atmosphere of the story (part 1 more so than Z though). Is Dragon Ball bad? I wouldn't say bad, it was pretty enjoyable and I loved it as a kid. But that doesn't mean it's the greatest anime of all time.

Plotwise, there was really no depth to it. Part 1 was pretty much "Alright guys, let's go find the Dragon Balls!" with cool martial arts fights and the like throughout to keep things interesting. Z was "Oh no, a bad guy wants to blow up the planet! We gotta stop him!" in literally every single arc which led to energy spamming fights that, while flashy, eventually got repetitive. The action was cool but the story was about as shallow as it gets and I'd say that Naruto and One Piece both did a more impressive job if we account for the flow of the story and the compelling adventure factor. Don't get me started on Fullmetal Alchemist either, which is a masterpiece of an action Shounen but needs practically nothing that DBZ introduced as a part of its plot to keep afloat. In practically every aspect I'd say Fullmetal Alchemist>Dragon Ball.

The characters are good, but nothing THAT special. Goku (while being probably the original version of this) is the typical Shounen hero who's happy, hungry, and full of energy. When his friends are in danger, however, he gets serious and proceeds to pound the crap out of the enemy. Naruto and Luffy are very similar to that, except for the part where both of them are developed a significant deal more and go through many more character changes throughout the whole thing. My personal favorites in DBZ were Piccolo, Trunks, and Vegeta, who probably had the most development in the whole series as far as I'm aware, but even that wasn't very much. At least not compared to the Straw Hat development in One Piece.

My thoughts on DBZ's quality overall?

Sure it's influential but it's not the greatest anime, there's no such thing as the greatest anime and yeah looking back it's just musclebound freaks with glowing hair punching each other, but i'll do say it is entertaining

^This.

If it has flaws stop praising it like it's the best thing ever. Saying that it's the best because of feats is pathetic, I would rather evaluate a series for its plot, characters, etc. Not only that, but DBZ will be surpassed by other anime eventually. One Piece has already surpassed it in sales, what's next?

^And most definitely this.

Is it bad? No. People are free to like it if they want and if it's someone's favorite I won't care because that's just their taste and I have to respect that. But the notion that DBZ is "By far the best anime ever made in history" despite the fact that it does have a number of flaws throughout is baffling to me, especially since most people who seem to argue that are running solely on nostalgia and DBZ's influence on popular stories that, for the most part, are probably superior to it in the long run anyway.

 

[Caliburn]

And here we go again. Almost a year ago someone made almost the exact same thread, so I'm just going to Quote my own post:

Spoiler

So I used to watch DBZ when I was younger and thought it was the best thing ever(who on here didnt); but looking back I realize its probably one of the worst animes ever made. Horrible story line and no character development whatsoever.

I mean practically all the main villains (frieza, buu, etc..) had no motive and just wanted to destroy the world just because. No depth to any of the characters, no backstory on the villains everything is just black and white. Either evil or good.

In naruto and other animes countless episodes are spent developing the main characters and the villains and how they became the villain. I mean all of naruto is about how Sasuke grows into a villain. DBZ is just a very simplistic anime.Only thing going to DBZ was the action. Im just saiyin (lol see wat I did there)...


***UPDATE***

Also its probably not THE worst one out there cuz there's lots of animes and probably really bad ones that no ones even see but it definitely isn't one of the good ones.

Ok stop telling me about how Kishi got inspiration for Naruto from DBZ I know this already and I knew it before I made the thread. Doesn't change these facts:

FACT: DBZ has weak plot. If a 5 year old can grasp the plot then its not a very deep and meaningful plot.
FACT: DBZ is repetitive. I can sum up every saga of DBZ in about one paragraph which i will do down below.
FACT: DBZ villains and heroes depth ( they are either good or bad) no gray areas. The only exception to this was Vegeta who started out all bad then became good
FACT: DBZ fights were drawn out and boring, just raw power VS raw power no strategies involved at all?
FACT: you DBZ fanboys are just letting nostalgia take over your emotions. Stop getting your panties in a twist

Here is every DBZ saga in a nutshell

Scene of Goku and his friends all happy and relaxed. OH NO! enter powerful alien headed to earth. TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN. finally after a month of episodes villian reaches destination. Good guys fight villian. Villain transforms into different form. Pwns heroes. Everyone lies on ground waiting for Goku to come save them. Goku arrives. Kicks ass. Villian transforms AGAIN. Kicks gokus ass. Goku turns super saiyan and kicks ass. Oh look ANOTHER F-ing transformation. Fight drags on. Both Goku and Villian pretty beat up; Goku finished day with Spirit bomb. Everyone uses dragonballs to irreverse every bad thing that happened. Then Scene of Goku and his friends all happy and relaxed. OH NO! enter powerful alien headed to earth. REPEAT

You should be ashamed, truly truly ashamed of yourself. Nostalgia? It's much more than that and what you just did is not only a complete taboo, but you just broke one of the most fundamental rules of history and as a result your entire opinion is not credible. What you're doing is being anachronistic, you impose values, opinions and ways to view at things from the current time on something from the past completely disregarding the context in which it was originally created. If you would do that in historical societies, you would be criticized to the ground and you would loose any kind of credibility as it's completely wrong, it's something you just don't do as you blame and accuse people of things that are odd in our current society, but weren't at the time it was originally made. With other words you're being unreasonable. You say that sucks, that sucks and that sucks. If all that was so bad, how come it's one of the most important, if not the most important anime of all time?

What you're doing is no different from saying that the original Star Wars utterly sucks. The quality is horrible, the special effects are archaic and the plot is nothing special either. Still it's considered one of the best movies in history. Why? Because it's a milestone, a landmark in the history of film making. The influence it had was massive and it's exactly the same for Dragonball and DBZ. You are extremely narrow minded as you completely disregarded its influence and the context in which it was created and aired on TV. That you don't like DBZ that's your opinion. Yes there are a lot of things wrong with DBZ, yes the plot is repetitive, yes it doesn't have much depth, yes the balance of power in DBZ is completely messed up and yes DBZ contains a lot of contradictions. So? Apparently you are under the impression that that actually still matters. It does not, it's worthless, irrelevant, not needed. Everything you said is completely worthless, all of that doesn't matter anymore. There are countless of books and movies that became almost legendary, but got criticized years later because the way you look at things always changes. But that never took away their status. It doesn't matter how bad you find the plot now, it doesn't matter how repetitive you see it now as none of that changes the importance DB and DBZ had on the world of anime and manga when they were released. DBZ is a milestone.

That's what makes DBZ DBZ, all your criticism about the plot and its characters is just not relevant anymore, you're 10 years too late for that. If I would make an objective comparison between for instance Naruto and DBZ, Naruto would probably do better than DBZ. Still I would see DBZ of something completely different than Naruto for the simple fact that Naruto is in a certain way the result of DB and DBZ. It predates Naruto. Kishimoto, Oda, Hiro...they all have said that they grew up with DB and DBZ and they're not the only ones. An entire generation got inspired by Goku. The similarities between Naruto, Goku and Luffy are so clear it doesn't even have to be mentioned. Nor Naruto, nor One Piece, nor Fairy Tail or any other manga/anime for that matter can at this point say that, no matter how popular they are atm, they can't claim that they inspired an entire generation unlike DBZ.

You should be ashamed as a manga reader and an anime watcher that you reduced DBZ to just criticizing its plot and characters and completely ignoring the influence it had and its value. In my country the manga/anime culture hasn't really been that wide spread, however already 10 years ago DBZ was something known by even adults. I remember how I woke up early on sunday morning to watch DBZ as each sunday they aired 5 consecutive DBZ episodes and often my dad started to watch with me too. It's the same for Pokémon. How much did Ash's personality change during the course of all those seasons? Barely and Pokémon is probably the most repetitive anime in existence. You want me to summarize that? Ash collects badges and each episode Team Rocket gets blasted away. Still just like DBZ Pokémon is something that influenced the world and an entire generation. Then your criticism about its plot and characters is so minimal, so useless it might as well be completely ignored as it has no relevance.

And still I yearn for something like DBZ. These days anime episodes are cheaply mass-produced. The quality of things like DBZ and Gundam Wing are, even seen by modern standards, on a whole different level than the crap we get today.

That you call yourself an anime watcher and manga reader...it's truly embarrassing. You lack any kind of insight in the history of the anime and manga world. DBZ is an icon, it's something a lot of people grew up with. DBZ is the reason as how I personally ended up watching anime and reading manga. DBZ is a milestone, an icon, something that paved the way for things like Naruto and One Piece. That's why people look up to DBZ in such a way, your critics at this point are just utterly worthless. That's not just nostalgia, it's way bigger than that, but the fact that you don't even understand that is really sad. In fact you even confirmed it yourself by saying you thought it was the best anime at that time, but now you find it one of the worst. How come? Because you're using knowledge you gained by watching animes that appeared after DBZ was already finished to criticize it...that's just weak as those same animes owe DBZ. DBZ doesn't owe Naruto or One Piece anything, however they owe DBZ as they're the result of DBZ. If DBZ didn't exist, both Naruto and One Piece would have looked differently or maybe never existed in the first place. That's what made DBZ so great and it's sad that you didn't even realize that. So the main reason as why you were even able to give those critics was due to the influence of DBZ itself, so by actually criticizing DBZ like that and ignoring its status, you just invalidated your own comments as those are the result of DBZ. Talking about irony.

I'm never going to claim that DBZ had the best plot or character development or whatever, though I value what it symbolized and the effect it had, which was on a scale none of the current animes have reached yet.

Original thread:

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Does DBZ have the best plot ever? No. Best character development? No. Best characters? Not really either. Is it overrated? Never. Any manga/anime lover who says that has no idea what he or she is talking about.

It's extremely simple OP, Naruto, FT...some of the most popular current manga's have admitted to have been inspired by Goku and his stories. Without DB, the world of manga would have looked completely different. If DB wouldn't have existed, neither would have OP or Naruto or in the least they wouldn't be the stories as we know them today. You can't have Naruto or OP without DB, but you can have DB without OP or Naruto.

It's your personal opinion about which anime or manga you find the best. Times and tastes change, DB was from a previous era. However that's a complete different matter then saying whether it's overrated or not as even if you would judge all its aspects on a lower level than current anime/manga's, then it could still not be overrated as most of those current anime/manga's owe DB. They have success because DB had success, not the other way around. Someone said here that OP already passed DB. Not true, not even in the slightest. I love OP and currently I enjoy it hell of a lot more than DB, but considering on a higher lvl than it? Never.

As said times change and that means everything: political, social and economical situations. So using stuff like "it has higher selling sales" is completely irrelevant. In my country manga and anime still have to really break through. Bleach nor One Piece has been on television as far as I know and Naruto only in minor doses. Not much people know actually about manga's, that's still a very select group of people, however almost everyone knows DBS, which was already extremely popular over a decade ago. There is no one of my age that does not know it.

It remains fact that neither OP, Naruto or any other manga was able to achieve what DB and DBZ achieved and as a result of that alone it can't be overrated. That would automatically mean you overrate a large part of the anime/manga industry. I probably wouldn't even enjoy DBZ much if I would watch it now as I'm used to stuff like OP, but I do know that regardless of all that DBZ had an influence on the current manga/anime industry of the caliber neither OP or Naruto had been able to achieve for the moment.

PS: Don't flame people or I will infract.

 

[PhazoN]

And here we go again. Almost a year ago someone made almost the exact same thread, so I'm just going to Quote my own post:


Original thread:

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Does DBZ have the best plot ever? No. Best character development? No. Best characters? Not really either. Is it overrated? Never. Any manga/anime lover who says that has no idea what he or she is talking about.

It's extremely simple OP, Naruto, FT...some of the most popular current manga's have admitted to have been inspired by Goku and his stories. Without DB, the world of manga would have looked completely different. If DB wouldn't have existed, neither would have OP or Naruto or in the least they wouldn't be the stories as we know them today. You can't have Naruto or OP without DB, but you can have DB without OP or Naruto.

It's your personal opinion about which anime or manga you find the best. Times and tastes change, DB was from a previous era. However that's a complete different matter then saying whether it's overrated or not as even if you would judge all its aspects on a lower level than current anime/manga's, then it could still not be overrated as most of those current anime/manga's owe DB. They have success because DB had success, not the other way around. Someone said here that OP already passed DB. Not true, not even in the slightest. I love OP and currently I enjoy it hell of a lot more than DB, but considering on a higher lvl than it? Never.

As said times change and that means everything: political, social and economical situations. So using stuff like "it has higher selling sales" is completely irrelevant. In my country manga and anime still have to really break through. Bleach nor One Piece has been on television as far as I know and Naruto only in minor doses. Not much people know actually about manga's, that's still a very select group of people, however almost everyone knows DBS, which was already extremely popular over a decade ago. There is no one of my age that does not know it.

It remains fact that neither OP, Naruto or any other manga was able to achieve what DB and DBZ achieved and as a result of that alone it can't be overrated. That would automatically mean you overrate a large part of the anime/manga industry. I probably wouldn't even enjoy DBZ much if I would watch it now as I'm used to stuff like OP, but I do know that regardless of all that DBZ had an influence on the current manga/anime industry of the caliber neither OP or Naruto had been able to achieve for the moment.

PS: Don't flame people or I will infract.

DBZ is and will remain a classic in anime, it deserves the recognition it gets and it did achieve many incredible feats that no other anime has. When I say that people overrate it, I'm referring to those that claim that the anime is perfect and that it has no flaws. That, to me, makes no sense. I never judge an anime for its feats or the amount of anime that it influenced. I look at the plot, characters, character development, message, etc. When people overlook all of these aspects and say that it's the best, I feel like they're overrating it, or they're simply 'blind' due to nostalgia.

 

[Miles vi Britannia]

DBZ is and will remain a classic in anime, it deserves the recognition it gets and it did achieve many incredible feats that no other anime has. When I say that people overrate it, I'm referring to those that claim that the anime is perfect and that it has no flaws. That, to me, makes no sense. I never judge an anime for its feats or the amount of anime that it influenced. I look at the plot, characters, character development, message, etc. When people overlook all of these aspects and say that it's the best, I feel like they're overrating it, or they're simply 'blind' due to nostalgia.

This is exactly what I'm thinking as well. The fact remains that if DBZ hadn't been an influence to all the manga out there and if Shounens had taken a different turn, yet the story was still the same, would people still esteem it the way they do today? Not in the slightest.

Sure, it had a huge influence on the anime world, but said influence is only so major because it happened to hit the popular realm of anime and manga (the mainstream action Shounens) and it just so happened that the people who wrote those were inspired by DBZ. But what about all the other areas? I cannot fathom in a single way how things like Code Geass, Clannad, 20th Century Boys, or Liar Game owe absolutely anything to the contributions of DBZ. And would I deem all of those as superior stories? Absolutely. Why? Because all of those provide their own story essence in a way no other series could. Because all of those have fantastic characters that are more developed than many I've encountered in any other anime. I could go on but objectively speaking, as a story, DBZ was not that fantastic. If any other series had the same influence that DBZ did, people wouldn't be worshiping DBZ as "the best anime of all time" or anything like that. Furthermore, even in regards to action Shounen, like mentioned before, Fullmetal Alchemist owes absolutely nothing to DBZ as far as I'm aware. The action system is completely different, the characters are hardly comparable, the setting is nowhere near similar, etc. Yet Fullmetal is one of the best stories I have ever encountered (my favorite Shounen of all time personally) and even without DBZ's existence would still stay afloat as a very fantastic series.

Influence is a wonderful thing but that's always subject to the views of the masses. Just because a lot of people believe something doesn't automatically make it true. It's like saying that Popularity=Quality, which makes absolutely no sense to me for a number of reasons.

Why was DBZ so popular? Because, to put it very simply, it's a simple, mindless story that anyone can get into. Kids love the adventure and the battles, adults can enjoy the flashiness and intensity of the story, etc. It's one of those things that, in its own way, can appeal to anyone really. But that's all on a very surface level, enjoyment is an easy thing but it doesn't automatically indicate masterpiece quality. Why isn't Gurren Lagann as popular? Because a lot of people like to turn their eyes away from mecha for some reason and dismiss a show as "cliche" even though it actually uses this to its advantage. Why isn't Clannad as popular? Because some people like to keep with their ignorance in the notion that anything that looks cutesy and moe is too girly and shallow to be as deep a romance as it really is. Why isn't Steins;Gate as popular? Because in a society like this, it's not in the best interests of the masses to use their brains while trying to enjoy fiction. Does that make them any less awesome shows? I sincerely hope nobody asserts that notion. Admittedly all of those are popular as well, but obviously not as well known to the non-otaku world. But a big part of that is also the fact that DBZ was advertised to the max back in the day. By comparison to Code Geass, Clannad, or Steins, DBZ was all over the place and whether you tried or not, you would see it around somewhere. Anime these days is advertised less frequently, or at the very least less frequently in the sense of "advertising" and publicity of that time. Anime is very easy to locate in an internet society like this, but will it reach the non-anime watching masses as easily now? Of course not and that is also a huge reason why DBZ got as big as it did. Would I hear about DBZ on TV and whatnot? All the time. Unfortunately, this was not the case for Clannad or Steins;Gate, which I had to make an effort to be aware of on my own time by comparison since anime advertising is not the same. DBZ owes a lot to the times as much as the times owe to DBZ, which is something people don't seem to account for. If DBZ was made in any other era people probably wouldn't love it as much as they do today. Not to mention that DBZ didn't have nearly as much competition back then as anime/manga wasn't quite as big a realm back then. Now I will say that I would easily view Yu Yu Hakusho and Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, two Shounen manga of the time, as superior to DBZ by far storywise. Why didn't they get as popular as DBZ? It wasn't because they were inferior, it's because those two happened to be a lot more mature stories and as a result kids could get into DBZ whereas they probably wouldn't with YYH or JJBA and that's all it comes down to.

Oh and one more thing I almost forgot: Licensing. Licensing tends to be a pain with the anime/manga industry. Now in America, although I still have many gripes about those that aren't licensed to this day (an entirely separate matter that I'll refrain from elaborating on), there are still a bunch of anime/manga companies out there to bring these series to the country for us to enjoy. But do other countries always have the luxury? Not in the slightest. Other countries are obviously gonna have to go with the most popular stuff if they're hoping for any sort of success, and with limited options of course they'd go with something like DBZ. In that aspect it's much less about "its uniqueness and influence" but rather the fact that DBZ was lucky enough to find its way to those countries. Other series might not even get a chance to reach those, so one can't argue about how they failed to have "worldwide influence" when barred from even receiving that opportunity in the first place. DBZ owes much to licensing as well, otherwise it would have been confined to Japan and a few of the other areas of the world that happen to get big chunks of anime/manga across. If that were the case, then those One Piece sales that "don't mean anything when compared to worldwide influence" would suddenly have a lot more weight.

The way I see it is this: yes, it does have a huge influence and a lot of people do still hold it in high regards to this day. But should I let this fact alone weigh down how I view anime? Of course not. Just as PhazoN said, I judge anime/manga by its story and factors of that sort. Influence is powerful but that is an entirely different factor that alone cannot change the way I look at an anime. Steins;Gate is an anime with a complex plot, great characters, etc. But am I gonna say "Oh it wasn't as popular as DBZ, minus 1 point."? That's about as ludicrous as it gets. I've never been one to let popularity change my views on an anime, because the fact remains that it just doesn't make sense to sway your own view to account for the views of other people. Whether DBZ was popular or not I would view it in the same way. Truth be told it's often the fanbase itself that will kill things for me, even if something is popular and a lot of people love it, it is what it is and I still have to respect that. But when people come to obnoxiously shove down the idea that Dragon Ball Z is "by far the best anime/manga there has been, is, and ever will be and nothing you say can change that because my opinion is fact" then of course I will have something to say about that.

 

[Narutoboss222]

Miles vi Britannia why do you even bother? Everyone has different preferences and opinions. Everyone is entitled to there own opinion on what they think is the greatest Anime and Manga of all time. It so happens to be that the majority of people in the world will say that DBZ is the greatest Anime and Manga of all time. I know you can't take it that DBZ is still at the top so why don't you grow up and stop flaming on the best Anime/Manga. I just don't no how people can make threads about how overrated DBZ is when the franchise has done so much for the Anime world. That amazes me.

 

[Miles vi Britannia]

Miles vi Britannia why do you even bother? Everyone has different preferences and opinions. Everyone is entitled to there own opinion on what they think is the greatest Anime and Manga of all time. It so happens to be that the majority of people in the world will say that DBZ is the greatest Anime and Manga of all time. I know you can't take it that DBZ is still at the top so why don't you grow up and stop flaming on the best Anime/Manga. I just don't no how people can make threads about how overrated DBZ is when the franchise has done so much for the Anime world. That amazes me.

The only problem is that there is only one person in this entire thread who has given me any reason to think that DBZ has any value in being considered "The greatest anime/manga of all time" and even then it's questionable. The problem is that I am asking for legitimate, objective reasons and I'm sorry to say but you're not the one providing those. If DBZ's a person's favorite then that's what they like and I can't criticize it, but all you have been doing is obnoxiously proclaiming that DBZ craps on every other anime/manga in the world (many of which I bet you have never seen or heard of in your life) without giving a single real reason as to why you think that. All I am doing is expressing my opinion but the fact that you are too stubborn to even give it a thought without trying to flame me automatically invalidates your views in this thread. You tell me to respect other people's opinions but what have I seen you doing? Flaming people for giving evidence of characters stronger than Goku, bashing on people who think that DBZ, oh my goodness, might just be the TINIEST twinge overrated by its fanbase, and for not worshiping the ground that DBZ walks on just because you like it.

Majority of the people in the world will say DBZ is the greatest? LOL where did you get that from? Do you have any proof of this? Let's take a look at one of the most popular anime communities on the web, MyAnimeList.

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That gives you the list of the anime by ranks. But oh, where is Dragon Ball Z? Is it in the top 30? Top 60? Even top 100? Nope. It's #300 (at this moment)with a score of 8.19 as shown on its own page.

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If we take a look at the manga it does have a higher score than this which totals up to 8.49. However, as shown here (

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) it is #183. Now I'm not going to say that's a bad score and it's a pretty good rank all things considered, but let's keep in mind that this utterly crushes your idea that "most of the people in the world" think it's "the best" anime/manga created. Even the anime I deem to be the best don't top the list, but something to keep in mind is that this is a ranking consisted of the ratings from a very, very large community of anime fans so it's not just my word here.

But wait, perhaps it is still the most popular series out there right? Well I'm not one to say that popularity=quality (for a number of reasons) but let's look at the popularity on MyAnimeList as well for the sake of argument:

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Well you do find DBZ there.......if you take a look at the next set of 30 and see it at #42 while Dragon Ball part 1 is at #58. All things considered that's very good, but then you stop and think that the anime you claim is deemed best by "a majority of the anime watchers in the world" is bested by 41 others, 56 should we count part 1. Same with its manga (

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), where if we go down the ranks it's #40 in popularity. Again, a less popular anime/manga is not necessarily a bad one but the fact that you claim that it is the "best anime/manga by far around the world" when its rankings don't make top 10 on this site in either score or popularity, I'm doubting that your argument is valid. Even if it WERE #1 in popularity and quality, that's sure nice but can you give me an objective reason, not about how it was a simple story that many viewers could just sit back and pick up on, not about how these factors allowed it to sell more in a more advertising-oriented, less accessible anime world, but why this story is SOOOOOOO good that it, without a doubt, has to be better than any anime before made, existing now, or to be made in the future, without you even stopping to glimpse a single one.

You say it's done so much for the anime world, and I suppose it has.......if we're accounting for the mainstream action Shounens. And that consists of.....exactly how much of the anime/manga out there? What does a mystery thriller like Steins;Gate owe to DBZ? What does a romantic drama like Clannad owe to DBZ? What does a space battle strategic series like Legend of the Galactic Heroes owe to DBZ? What does a psychological mecha like Code Geass owe to DBZ? What does a dark survival game series like Fate/Zero owe to DBZ? I could definitely go on, but the fact is that only a small portion of the anime world owes its conception to DBZ roots. And then we have cases like Gintama where, sure there is the parody element and I'm sure DBZ is present in that, but even in a universe where DBZ didn't exist it would simply have thrived via the parodying of whatever other popular series happened to be present. You claim that DBZ was a revolutionary inspiration for the anime world, and while that may be true for a specific section of the anime realm, a lot of it is left utterly and completely untouched by DBZ's influence for the sole reason that they have utterly no connection or reason TO connect to its themes or tropes. I hope you realize that the world of anime is not limited to Naruto, Bleach, and Dragon Ball Z, or I wouldn't be as big an anime fan as I am.

 

[Narutoboss222]

Miles vi Britannia how can you say a small portion of Anime was influenced by DBZ?.Virtually every Anime was influenced by Dragon Ball. Like i said the majority of people in the world will state DB is the best.

You just got owned with your above statement. Bye noob.

 

[Joki]

Miles vi Britannia how can you say a small portion of Anime was influenced by DBZ? Virtually every Anime was influenced by Dragon Ball. Like i said the majority of people in the world will state DB is the best.

You just got owned with your above statement. Bye noob.

At first I was like, "whaaattt, no he wouldn't say such a thing you're putting stuff in his mouth(heh)." Then I read his post.

Then I realized he was right and you took that out of context.

Now look Narutoboss, we've had a good, long relationship, but here is where we part ways. I'm sorry son. But you'll forever be quoted in my sig, because it's just too good. I just can't love you any more though, my heart belongs to Miles.

I hope you can understand, your posts just aren't up to par any more.

 

[Simple Math]

I can't really consider an anime overrated or underrated since its all about opinion..

 

[NarutoIndra]

Nothing will ever compare to Dragon Ball/Z. Without it none of the manga's/anime's you are reading would be any exist or be any good. Every manga you read or anime you watch is destined to have taken something from DB/Z and expanded upon. If they had technology back then like now then all the fights and action would be even more epic, but it does not matter, being like it is is what makes it a classic, and for many (including me) the best anime of all time (i'm talking about dragon ball as well not only z).

It's #300 (at this moment)with a score of 8.19 as shown on its own page.

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If we take a look at the manga it does have a higher score than this which totals up to 8.49.

This is being compared with on going manga, and on going manga will clearly have better ratings than one that has been finished for a very long time now. GT is what lowered the score greatly (the last parts). He wasn't even going to do it, but fans had pressured him to so he did it in the shittiest way possible (i don't blame him for). But please be aware next time, when someone says best anime/manga of all time, do not bring up a website with current ranking of anime/manga being read on their website, and is opinion based as well, since only a poll could possibly give you a mere insight on what fans think.

 

[Joki]

Nothing will ever compare to Dragon Ball/Z. Without it none of the manga's/anime's you are reading would be any exist or be any good. Every manga you read or anime you watch is destined to have taken something from DB/Z and expanded upon. If they had technology back then like now then all the fights and action would be even more epic, but it does not matter, being like it is is what makes it a classic, and for many (including me) the best anime of all time (i'm talking about dragon ball as well not only z).



This is being compared with on going manga, and on going manga will clearly have better ratings than one that has been finished for a very long time now. GT is what lowered the score greatly (the last parts). He wasn't even going to do it, but fans had pressured him to so he did it in the shittiest way possible (i don't blame him for). But please be aware next time, when someone says best anime/manga of all time, do not bring up a website with current ranking of anime/manga being read on their website, and is opinion based as well, since only a poll could possibly give you a mere insight on what fans think.

Those rankings aren't base on ongoings, most of the manga that are the highest rated are already completed.

Plus GT wasn't even in the manga, or GT wasn't part of the anime at all it's a separate series, I don't know why it would affect its rating whether it's anime or manga Dragon Ball.

 

[Narutoboss222]

Joki! You and Miles have lost this debate, so you should just give up on posting on this preposterous thread.

 

[2big]

Story Naruto>DBZ
Scale DBZ>Naruto
what made DBZ so popular was its sheer scale of power Goku gathered up all the energy in the universe and created a bomb that is pretty fukking epic but i would rather watch naruto any day

 

[Joki]

Joki! You and Miles have lost this debate, so you should just give up on posting on this preposterous thread.

But I was only using .1% of my intellect on you, if I was being serious I totally would have won no diff.

 

[Miles vi Britannia]

Miles vi Britannia how can you say a small portion of Anime was influenced by DBZ? lol you stupid for stating that. Virtually every Anime was influenced by Dragon Ball. Like i said the majority of people in the world will state DB is the best.

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You just got owned with your above statement. Bye noob.

Alright, in that case, please give me a substantial list indicating how many anime have been notably impacted by DBZ's influence. If you can give me at least 100 then I might consider your statement valid. Keep in mind though that there are thousands of anime and manga out there even if you DO find that many. And again, you have not indicated in any way how many like Geass, Steins, Clannad, or Fate have anything they owe to Dragon Ball. Not that you would even recognize those anime.

Majority of people in the world? That seems like something restricted to Japan, where the sales for One Piece and Dragon Ball are high as all hell. #3 is Doraemon, I haven't seen it so I can't hate on it but let's be realistic, how many worldwide fans out there are hardcore Doraemon fans? Probably not that many. The fact that you use a Japanese survey to indicate what "a majority of the world" thinks is the best anime/manga is pathetic and makes your flaming look utterly childish as well as unfounded.

I'd say that anyone who's bratty enough to claim that the person they're speaking with "has been owned" needs to grow up and stop acting like a thug.

Nothing will ever compare to Dragon Ball/Z. Without it none of the manga's/anime's you are reading would be any exist or be any good. Every manga you read or anime you watch is destined to have taken something from DB/Z and expanded upon. If they had technology back then like now then all the fights and action would be even more epic, but it does not matter, being like it is is what makes it a classic, and for many (including me) the best anime of all time (i'm talking about dragon ball as well not only z).



This is being compared with on going manga, and on going manga will clearly have better ratings than one that has been finished for a very long time now. GT is what lowered the score greatly (the last parts). He wasn't even going to do it, but fans had pressured him to so he did it in the shittiest way possible (i don't blame him for). But please be aware next time, when someone says best anime/manga of all time, do not bring up a website with current ranking of anime/manga being read on their website, and is opinion based as well, since only a poll could possibly give you a mere insight on what fans think.

Again, that is entirely untrue. Many Shounen have been influenced, but as I just said to Narutoboss (who obviously won't give me a legitimate answer but perhaps you might), please show me how anime such as Code Geass, Steins;Gate, Clannad, or Fate/Zero owe much of anything to Dragon Ball. They're totally different anime that just can't be compared. And Fullmetal Alchemist has very little (if anything) in common with DB/Z and it's still a very successful action Shounen.

Actually if you are at all familiar with the site you would realize that most series actually end up with a higher score or stay around the same range upon completion since a lot of people refrain from giving a vote until the series has been completed, where they don't have any more to wait on in terms of story and whatnot. The only major exception I can think of right now is Sword Art Online, but people hyped that up very early on and many of the haters are the type who wait till the very end to give it a rating and that's why that's the case. Also, if you pay attention to the pages on the website, you would notice that the Dragon Ball Z anime is split into the different parts (part 1, Z, and GT, even Kai has its own) so the fact that fans hated GT by comparison has no bearing at all on the score. Also, since GT was never in the manga it could not influence that score either. And for what it's worth GT wasn't really a Toriyama work, that was mostly handled by the animators, which shows why it can't compare in the slightest to the original DB or DBZ. Sure, he created some designs and overlooked the production but it wasn't really his story, GT as a whole was pretty much a way to milk money off DB since it's so popular that it was bound to get something even if it sucked.

Even if current anime/manga weren't included there is a huge number of series that are already completed that have pretty darn high ratings. Mangawise sure Berserk is an ongoing, but that's such a great manga that I can see WHY it's at #1 now and it's probably gonna get higher once it finishes. Watashitachi no Shiawase na Jikan, 20th Century Boys, Fullmetal Alchemist, Monster, Nausicaa, GTO, etc. are all finished series. One Piece is up there because, well, it's a damn good manga AND it's very popular so obviously it'd be that high. If you notice the top 30 anime you'd realize the only ongoing up there is Gintama' Enchousen, and that's because MAL as a whole loves Gintama and it just so happens that they made a new season for it (which for all it's worth is probably more of the same thing continuing) so unless they just crapped on the quality of course it would be that high.

And I hope you realized that it being "opinion based" doesn't really matter much, popularity and sales all come down to how many masses of people have a good opinion about it so that's not even a factor worth discussing in the first place. If you get a poll about what people think is the best anime/manga, again, it all comes down to "what people think."

Joki! You and Miles have lost this debate, so you should just give up on posting on this preposterous thread.

It's not even a debate when your "argument" consists of "Omg you kid, DBZ is totally the best and even though I'm incapable of giving any responses to your points I'm totally right!" at least the other users discussing with me are TRYING to put in an honest effort but now you're just trolling.

 

[Narutoboss222]

But I was only using .1% of my intellect on you, if I was being serious I totally would have won no diff.

Your using the words that I owned you with before. Copycat:flaw: Be original dude.

 

[Narutoboss222]

Miles that survey was taken from 20 countries. Countries in Europe as well. Dragon Ball came out on top in it's rightful place. #1 Miles just give up. Your stupidity is overwhelming.

 

[Hippy]

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[Miles vi Britannia]

Miles that survey was taken from 20 countries. Countries in Europe as well. Dragon Ball came out on top in it's rightful place. #1 Miles just give up. Your stupidity is overwhelming.

So apparently this survey comes from the World Cosplay Summit, correct? Well it just so happens that the location of said event is in Japan. I'll admit that I overlooked the bit about people from 20 different countries, but that still doesn't mean much because it doesn't mean it represents 20 countries, it means that people FROM 20 different countries came to this event. It's not like they went around to 20 different countries for this survey or did it on the web (unless I am misunderstanding in which case you are free to correct me). Just as I said, if the source itself was Japanese then obviously it represents Japan itself more than anything. Do you think that the entire Russian fanbase has the interest or the budget to fly over all the way to Japan for a single cosplay event? As big as it is and as much as people might like to, that's unrealistic and coming from experience I know that as much as I would like to go to some out of states anime event, I'm not gonna be able to and nobody else I personally know will either. All that the site is suggesting is that a specific set of certain visitors from said countries gave their votes (a big event will obviously draw in people from other places regardless) but it does NOT at all indicate the "worldwide" opinion that you have been proclaiming and it's shameful that I almost overlooked this point just because it pointed out "20 countries." In short, it is just as I claimed earlier, even if it is not SOLELY restricted to Japan the vast majority by far consists of the Japanese fanbase. And if we're gonna take a look at Japanese influence then again, One Piece has the highest sales so the idea that DBZ is "by far" the best, if even the best at all is far-fetched considering it is now being outsold in the very country you got your survey from. Don't take the words "20 countries" to mean that every anime fan in every area of all 20 of these countries actually and sincerely believes that this is the top 10 best list of anime/manga. The event's location alone is utter proof that most of those votes came from Japanese fans, and the fact that visitors were present in other countries advertises the influence of the convention more than this "worldwide belief" that you seem to be devoted to.

Now, ignoring the holes in your argument, let's for one second suppose that what you're saying IS right, and that in the end most of the world DOES respect DB/Z as the "best anime/manga ever." That argument STILL relies completely on the notion that a lot of people liking something a lot automatically makes it the best. By this logic Twilight is one of the best stories of all time because it happens to have a pretty huge fanbase. Sure there are huge flocks of people who despise it, but just about as many fangirls are sure to adore it. Again, popularity=/=quality. Otherwise Bleach would automatically be one of the best stories out there even though there are so many flaws with it I feel bad that I really used to be a huge fan of it. The fact that a lot of people could get into a simple story because they didn't need the dedication to keep up with an actual plot in favor of watching a random episode of fast-paced fighting or kid-appropriate adventuring does not mean it is without a doubt the best, it just means that it was convenient for a lot of people to get into. It's not the same with Geass, where if you step into it anywhere past the first like 5 episodes you're lost as all hell. It's not the same with Clannad where if you don't start from episode 1, you don't know or care about any character the way you have to. It's not the same with Steins;Gate where if you don't begin it properly, you cannot appreciate the true value of its story.

DBZ's appeal is that it's easy to introduce to someone and that even if they didn't start from the beginning, they don't really NEED to if they want to see what it is about and that's why it's so popular. But objectively you still haven't given me a reason why as a plot it is superior to all these other stories out there. The fact that you're completely ignoring the examples I have given that shut down your logic and that you focus solely on a single aspect of the argument (which relies heavily on one survey representing the opinion of the entire world) makes your stance very questionable. If you're so desperate to defend DBZ that you resort to stupid reputation negs (on posts having nothing to do with the reason you gave the neg for at that) and flame in every single post then it's clear that you're being blinded by fanboyism more than anything else and desperate to pick me out because you can't stand the idea that not everyone in the world agrees with your opinion. Maybe I wouldn't have a problem if you could actually present your opinion in an educated, well-mannered way but you seem to have this notion that anyone who disagrees with your opinion is wrong and that you're the only person who's right and let me break it to you: not everyone agrees with you and you have to deal with it.

 

[HarrisonX]

I <3 Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball and GT is okay Lol. I don't think it is overrated. And I do agree, it's not as exciting and good as the first time you watched it but it's still good, I don't feel the same way as I did when I watched it the first time but it's still nice to watch the show. It was the first anime to bring me into the anime world. Yeah, I don't really like the style of it either because the people don't have faces like O_O which I like because it's funny but it's still a good show. And lot of manga artists are influenced by the show.