DBZ fans presuming too much

[SS100]

No one in DBZ is multiversal level...

bruh........do you remember?

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now imagine what SS3 broly can do

 

[Mahesvara]

Let me put this is an an easier way for you guys to understand.


Sakura was able to hurt Kagura by getting behind her and punching her.


Sakura has greater DC then 8th gate guy by that logic, and able to keep up with her speed wise who Sasuke had trouble to do, since he was warped in another dimension and all.


so by your guys logic, that wasn't PSI and Sakura is top 5. Okay then.

Necromancer solo'd this.

Typical Naruto fan response. Can't see the greater picture for the single event.

1. Kaguya had far larger priorities she was worrying about than to watch out for Sakura
2. Yes. Sakura's physical strength is equal to, if not greater than RM Naruto's by feats. That's what feats are for. Does that upset you?

You can't ignore feats, no matter how much you don't agree with them.

Also like he pointed out, Sakura was able to land her blow, because Naruto and Sasuke had her distracted and cornered and despite what you may believe, Sakura is one of the strongest characters in the series when it comes to pure physical strength, so a direct blow from her should be able to cause some damage to anybody in the series.

 

[P3ĮÑ]

So what you're over explaining in more simple terms is that you don't know whether each unit of power in their power level charts increases exponentially or logarithmically. Correct?

Something like that. Lel.

You're too stuck on the moon example. Base level Frieza effortlessly (and immediately) destroyed planet Vegeta.

He never destoryed it immediately, it was off panel, which would classify it as an outlier feat. Which is funny, because namek could've been much bigger then earth (it's been calc'd to have a larger GBE than earth) And frieza, in his final form, with a chrage attack, never entirely destroyed the planet.

The excuse is, well. Frieza was hesitating, which doesn't make sense since. VIA logic, if he really did one shot vegeta in base form, I don't really see how he couldn't do it in his final form.

 

[The Necromancer]

Something like that. Lel.



He never destoryed it immediately, it was off panel, which would classify it as an outlier feat. Which is funny, because namek could've been much bigger then earth (it's been calc'd to have a larger GBE than earth) And frieza, in his final form, with a chrage attack, never entirely destroyed the planet.

The excuse is, well. Frieza was hesitating, which doesn't make sense since. VIA logic, if he really did one shot vegeta in base form, I don't really see how he couldn't do it in his final form.

All this is a moot point, as Goku still has 15,000 times as many points in his power level rating.

And according to your own calculations, comparing Roshi's feats to Frieza's feats proves that the Power Levels increase exponentially with each point.

 

[P3ĮÑ]

All this is a moot point, as Goku still has 15,000 times as many points in his power level rating.

And according to your own calculations, comparing Roshi's feats to Frieza's feats proves that the Power Levels increase exponentially with each point.

I fail to see how it's moot because goku wasn't the one going around destroying planets.

Not neccessarily, And to what extent? you don't know, obviously, the fact remains 2 tenatons is small star busting, a large star is 328 time more then that e.g if goku at 1 million power level can destroy a star, he will need a tremndous increase in power level/DC to destroy a large one, cause the energy difference, the stars mass, would all be taken into account.

 

[The Necromancer]

I fail to see how it's moot because goku wasn't the one going around destroying planets.

Not neccessarily, And to what extent? you don't know, obviously, the fact remains 2 tenatons is small star busting, a large star is 328 time more then that e.g if goku at 1 million power level can destroy a star, he will need a tremndous increase in power level/DC to destroy a large one, cause the energy difference, the stars mass, would all be taken into account.

Roshi destroys moon at ~190 PL
Base Frieza destroys planet at ~85,000 PL

DC to destroy a moon is ~29 Exatons
DC to destroy a planet is ~57,000 Exatons

The ratio between the two is far from equal, meaning each point given in Power Level is exponential. So Goku at 500 PL isn't just 2 times stronger than Goku at 250 PL.

This is simple math. That means that Goku by the end of BotG, is far more than 15,000 times more powerful than a man who destroyed a planet.

 

[P3ĮÑ]

Roshi destroys moon at ~190 PL
Base Frieza destroys planet at ~85,000 PL

DC to destroy a moon is ~29 Exatons
DC to destroy a planet is ~57,000 Exatons

The ratio between the two is far from equal, meaning each point given in Power Level is exponential. So Goku at 500 PL isn't just 2 times stronger than Goku at 250 PL.

This is simple math.

You misread, planetary is 57 zettatons, not exatons 1 zettaon= 1000 exatons.

Ohh i misread

also, use that and let's scale to how far the get.

 

[The Necromancer]

You misread, planetary is 57 zettatons, not exatons 1 zettaon= 1000 exatons.

That's why I multiplied it by 1000... U_U

 

[7th Biggest OP Fan]

Typical Naruto fan response. Can't see the greater picture for the single event.

1. Kaguya had far larger priorities she was worrying about than to watch out for Sakura
2. Yes. Sakura's physical strength is equal to, if not greater than RM Naruto's by feats. That's what feats are for. Does that upset you?

It's people like you that make debating pointless on this forum, because while any position in any debate can be backed with facts, feats, and manga scans, you instead choose to use blind bias and accusation.

Next time you try to make a point, actually back it with some logic.

Sorry, I'm at work right now and had a critical alarm to tend with, so sorry if my responses are a bit slow.

1. Kaguya had far larger priorities she was worrying about than to watch out for Sakura
She has Byakugan which should have given her vision(minus her blind spot) of everything around her, regardless of what she was dealing with.


2. Yes. Sakura's physical strength is equal to, if not greater than RM Naruto's by feats. That's what feats are for. Does that upset you?

Not at all. it just seems most people chalk this one up to PSI.
Feats are what should be used in debates like these. It's just you have to look further then just a scan and determine if they are reliable to use in a debate. Superman got hurt by a werewolf, but can survive being hit by 15 supernovas. Goku at SSJ4 got cut by a piece of glass. Would you argue since those are feats of their durability, then anything above peak human werewolf could hurt Superman, or anything as sharp as glass could cut Goku? This is why it is important to analyze feats and not just take them for face value.

If one feat shows him blowing up a moon and another shows him blowing up a hill with the same attack, but every other attack that character does is in the same range as the hill feat, including barley being able to move a boulder, it screams Outlier and PSI. I am more inclined for characters way stronger than Roshi being able to do that, like Piccolo at the beginning of Z. Although that is his best feat with manga scans and not using powerscaling, I still feel it is better than an old man who can barley move a rock. One could argue Toriyama could have gotten away with Piccolo doing it since Master Roshi was able to as well, but it is more believable so I don't go that route.

 

[P3ĮÑ]

That's why I multiplied it by 1000... U_U

Is this math too much for you?

Yeah I misread didn't read the 0's, sorry, then please scale it for me.

1000 exatons= 1 zettaton
1000 zettons= 1 yottaton
1000 yottaton= 1 tenaton
1000 tenaton= 1 fie

5.7 fie is stellar level.

How far does dbz get here. the DC for each planet varies as well. So does the size of each galaxy, solar system etc, I think that's obvious.

 

[The Necromancer]

Yeah I misread didn't read the 0's, sorry, then please scale it for me.

1000 exatons= 1 zettaton
1000 zettons= 1 yottaton
1000 yottaton= 1 tenaton
1000 tenaton= 1 fie

5.7 fie is stellar level.

You're avoiding the question.

Explain to me, right now why Goku is not 15,000+ times stronger than a planet buster, or I'm leaving.

-EDIT- Time's up. I'm done with you.

 

[P3ĮÑ]

You're avoiding the question.

Explain to me, right now why Goku is not 15,000+ times stronger than a planet buster, or I'm leaving.

Even if he's 15,000 times stronger

85,000 PL To destroy a planet. A 57 zettaon is planetary, that makes goku 855,000 zettatons, if we mulitply it by 2, which I never even denied. That is still not even galactical level, stellar at most, All I denied was PL being scaled to initial DC. The thing is mercury is a small planet, it can be destroyed at 433 exatons, so the thing is we don't really know how big vegeta was, thus it's an outlier so scaling from that would not work, now namek is much bigger than earth btw. which freiza could not destroy using a charged blast, in his final form, and instantly i might add.

Alright so...today I'm gonna be trying to answer an age-old question at the OBD:

How powerful are Frieza's planet busters?

You all know the tons of repetitive debates regarding Frieza being able to DET versus chain reaction bust, so I won't repeat them. The crucial question of importance here is to find out how large Namek was, and thus how hard it would be to destroy. So with that in mind, let's take a look at some scans that will give us a relative clue.

First let's establish some things:

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Vegeta's power here was established to be 24,000 in the present arc and 18,000 back in the Saiyan Saga. We all know what that means.

Continuing below, Krillin and Dende take off at "top speed:"

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We then get this:

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Although this isn't exactly the best to use for a size estimate (since Krillin obviously wasn't flying at top speed), it's somewhat telling.

Chapter 270 gives us another clue as to how big Namek is.

Gohan and Krillin had been flying very suppressed and slow to avoid Vegeta, yet flying at top speed would still take them an hour after a four day journey. Note that they changed location from their first hideout, which is where we will turn soon.

Later on in chapter 292, Gohan stated the distance to Guru's.

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These are all rather strong hints regarding Namek's size.

Yet, the real clue lies here:

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This is in chapter 265 after Guru unlocks some of Krillin's potential.

This is the furthest distance known in the arc. Thus it should be used as the best indicator. Krillin was stated to have a power level of around 10,000:

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This of course, is lower than Saiyan Saga Vegeta's level of 18,000, but higher than base Goku's 8,000 after training with King Kai.
Goku of course, is around Mach 29 on Snake Way. Krillin after his power up on Namek would be at least that much.

Now let's crunch some numbers.

Mach 29 is 9,952.8 m/s or 9.9528 km/s.

As there are 3,600 seconds in an hour, this means that Krillin was flying at a speed of 35,830.08 kilometers per hour.

35,830.08 x 2 = 71,660.16.

Assuming that Gohan and Bulma's hideout was on the opposite side of the planet (which is actually quite a conservative assumption), it would mean that Krillin crossed half the planetary circumference.

Thus Namek's circumference would be 143,320.32 kilometers.

Using this circle and sphere calculator, inputting this circumference nets a diameter of 45620.274747024465 kilometers.

Now I'll once again turn back to an old friend of mine, the Planetary Parameter Calculator (seriously I've used this thing in so many calcs it's like family ).

Let's get the easy part out of the way first. Under any gravity the planetary volume is 4.971E+22 or 49710000000000000000000 or forty-nine sextillion, seven hundred ten quintillion m^3. This is 45.7 times larger than Earth's volume of 1,087,000,000,000,000,000,000 or one sextillion, eighty-seven quintillion m^3.

Now for the GBE.

Two things to consider here, which will give a high and low end. The low end would be assuming that Namek was only 1G due to the fact that Bulma was able to stand and walk freely on the planet. The high end would assume an equivalent density to Earth (which it is somewhat interesting to note that Namek had no real large-scale rock formations to speak of, something one would expect of planets with higher gravity than Earth).

Anyway, the low end is 1.026E+34 joules as a minimum GBE. Earth's GBE is 2.4e32 joules.

1.026E+34/2.4e32 = 42.75.

To get the higher end, we'll assume a similar density to Earth. Earth's density is about 5,501 kg/m^3.

To get a similar density, we'll divide Namek's diameter by Earth's and increase the gravity accordingly.

45620.274747024465/12,756.2 = 3.5.

Increasing the gravity by 3.5 times and you get a density of 5,383 kg/m^3, which is slightly less than Earth.

The GBE for this is 1.257E+35 joules.

1.257E+35/2.4e32 = 523.75.

Recap:

Diameter: 45620.274747024465 (3.5 times larger than Earth's)
Circumference: 143,320.32 (3.5 times larger than Earth's)
Low end (1G) planetary GBE: 42.75 times greater than Earth's.
High end (similar density) planetary GBE: 523.75 times greater than Earth's.

Either way, Namek is significantly harder to destroy than Earth.

What does this say about Frieza busting Namek? Nothing really. But it does seem rather plausible that he can bust Earth-sized or smaller planets via DET.

You guys seriously owe me. I managed to go out with a friend, see Act of Valor,, (which was pretty good BTW), get a drink, and still come back and do this all in one day.

Credits to nevermind.

As you can see, namek is much bigger than earth. so obviously its gonna take a lot more than 57 zettatons.

Edit- Very well then, move on. Never knew there was a 20 minute time limit btw, lmao.

 

[Zealotic]

bruh........do you remember?

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now imagine what SS3 broly can do

Thats a soloar system billions of solar systems in a universe and billions of universes in a multiverse

 

[-immortal-]

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stay mad

 

[SS100]

Thats a soloar system billions of solar systems in a universe and billions of universes in a multiverse

thats why i said, imagine what SS3 broly can do or SS4 broly etc...

 

[KingOfAwesome]

For the love of God, where in the manga does it ever state Power Level correlates with destructive capacity? I've yet to see one panel describing the sorts, and until proof of this arrives, it will be a mere assumption. You want the accurate definition of "Power Level?"

The power level (戦闘力, Sentō Ryoku; literally "combat power" or "fighting strength")

Combat Power or Fighting Strength, the literal two definitions of the two. The own definition suggests that it doesn't relate to how much Ki one can exert into destructive capacity, but rather the strength of one during combat, a common misconception used by DBZ since the dawn of crossversal debating.

15,000+ times stronger than a planet buster at 57 zettatons? Even if you correlate power level and strength with DC other than feats and power scaling shown, or multiply him by Frieza's namek bust which P3IN showed to be at a significant level above Earth busting, you still wouldn't even get Galaxy level here.

As for Roushi, obvious outlier. King Piccolo was tired after busting a city who via scaling should have better if not far better energy exertion than any form of Master Roshi, yet Master Roshi destroys the entire moon? It is Plot Induced Stupidity and via the feats Roshi had shown before and the feats in the manga at that time is very contradictatory, and while the feat is still "there", it's considered an outlier and unusable in crossversal debates due to the inconsistencies displayed.

 

[P3ĮÑ]

Well let us Neg necromencer. Ban tan tss. Tornado of souls, wake me dead.

 

[TimothyTheTomato]

DBZ is a solar system buster at best.

Broly (Torymamas creation) was a galaxy wrecker and Buu was a threat to even the afterlife-_-

 

[TimothyTheTomato]

For the love of God, where in the manga does it ever state Power Level correlates with destructive capacity? I've yet to see one panel describing the sorts, and until proof of this arrives, it will be a mere assumption. You want the accurate definition of "Power Level?"



Combat Power or Fighting Strength, the literal two definitions of the two. The own definition suggests that it doesn't relate to how much Ki one can exert into destructive capacity, but rather the strength of one during combat, a common misconception used by DBZ since the dawn of crossversal debating.

15,000+ times stronger than a planet buster at 57 zettatons? Even if you correlate power level and strength with DC other than feats and power scaling shown, or multiply him by Frieza's namek bust which P3IN showed to be at a significant level above Earth busting, you still wouldn't even get Galaxy level here.

As for Roushi, obvious outlier. King Piccolo was tired after busting a city who via scaling should have better if not far better energy exertion than any form of Master Roshi, yet Master Roshi destroys the entire moon? It is Plot Induced Stupidity and via the feats Roshi had shown before and the feats in the manga at that time is very contradictatory, and while the feat is still "there", it's considered an outlier and unusable in crossversal debates due to the inconsistencies displayed.

Youre using the phrase plot induced stupidity very wrong

 

[TimothyTheTomato]

Everybody butthurt cause goku soloes