DBZ fans presuming too much

[godemperor307]

it annoys me when people try to powerscale up from dbz's planet busting feats and say "oh if freeza does that imagine what goku can do".
i dont want to imagine. i want some cold hard facts.

and because of that they assume "gokus a million times stronger than ssj1 so he can bust a universe". it doesnt work that way.
no one truly knows how large a universe is.
and comic book/anime writers are only guessing when they make someone multiverse level.

 

[Zealotic]

No one in DBZ is multiversal level...

 

[7th Biggest OP Fan]

it annoys me when people try to powerscale up from dbz's planet busting feats and say "oh if freeza does that imagine what goku can do".
i dont want to imagine. i want some cold hard facts.

and because of that they assume "gokus a million times stronger than ssj1 so he can bust a universe". it doesnt work that way.
no one truly knows how large a universe is.
and comic book/anime writers are only guessing when they make someone multiverse level.

People think this way because 90% of the people have only watched the anime. They don't realize Vegeta blowing up the bug planet is filler, They don't realize blowing up the moon was PIS. Not to mention they take the power level thing, which was only introduced in 2 sagas out of the entire show of DB and DBZ, and try to apply it to the rest of the show that didn't have it. Example Roshi's power level and blowing up the moon. They also don't know the true meaning of what it means to be a planet buster. If I cause a chain reaction with how the planet is made of and have it collapse on itself, does that really make me a planet buster vs someone with an attack that can just make that planet disappear without having a "5 mins before it blows up" situation.

They also think Hyperbole are actual facts, but of course they pick and choose which to use. They dis guard Sakura being able to hurt Kagura, but they think Cell can actually destroy an entire Solar System with a Kamehame wave somehow....


But of course you have to know who the trolls are and just ignore them. They even know deep down inside that DBZ is weak.

 

[Mahesvara]

Power scaling wise they should be at least close to Galaxy busters, well the top tiers anyway. There is really no point of it, because they would just take themselves out.

 

[Seventh Sama]

DBZ is a solar system buster at best.

 

[The Necromancer]

People think this way because 90% of the people have only watched the anime. They don't realize Vegeta blowing up the bug planet is filler, They don't realize blowing up the moon was PIS. Not to mention they take the power level thing, which was only introduced in 2 sagas out of the entire show of DB and DBZ, and try to apply it to the rest of the show that didn't have it. Example Roshi's power level and blowing up the moon. They also don't know the true meaning of what it means to be a planet buster. If I cause a chain reaction with how the planet is made of and have it collapse on itself, does that really make me a planet buster vs someone with an attack that can just make that planet disappear without having a "5 mins before it blows up" situation.

They also think Hyperbole are actual facts, but of course they pick and choose which to use. They dis guard Sakura being able to hurt Kagura, but they think Cell can actually destroy an entire Solar System with a Kamehame wave somehow....


But of course you have to know who the trolls are and just ignore them. They even know deep down inside that DBZ is weak.

Power levels are cannonically given out for each character in each saga.

You can't deny that the difference between Roshi's power level when he blew up the moon and Goku's Databook Power level at the end of BotG is far too vast to be hyperbole.

 

[P3ĮÑ]

DBZ is a solar system buster at best.

Exactly.

OT: No one in dbz is universal level, anyone who says such is basing his argument on hyperbolic claims

 

[P3ĮÑ]

Power levels are cannonically given out for each character in each saga.

You can't deny that the difference between Roshi's power level when he blew up the moon and Goku's Databook Power level at the end of BotG is far too vast to be hyperbole.

and when did PL= DC? It never did, it's an in verse source, which resides in the verse, it's not credible enough to quantify or establish a ground for DC. It doesn't work like that.

 

[The Necromancer]

and when did PL= DC? It never did, it's an in verse source, which resides in the verse, it's not credible enough to quantify or establish a ground for DC. It doesn't work like that.

Explain to me why it doesn't work like that.

 

[P3ĮÑ]

Explain to me why it doesn't work like that.

Let's take DC for instance

Now Star Level DC, Small (2.998 tenatons) The ability to destroy small red dwarf stars such as VB10.

Large (330.554 tenatons) The ability to destroy blue giant stars such as Rigel.

The difference is clearly visible, theres a 328 tenaton difference between the destruction of a small star comapred to a large one, so basing DC on PL's alone is not credible enough to establish any grounds for any DC, or for the matter make powerscaling any easier, because PL's do not corroborate on DC. It makes no sense they do, the DC to bust a planet is far great then moon busting as well.

Moon Level - (29 exatons).

Planetary Level - (57.3 zettatons)

1 zettaton= 1000 exatons, the enrgy gap is tremendous even between moon and planet busting, it's obvious, PL's don't corroborate this. Also in crossovers it's relevant you base it DC on feats, and feats alone (powerscaling from weaker character can be applicable, but it doesn't work when the verse itself, well DBZ has never shown us anything above planet level, they are based entirely on powerscaling which is solar system at most)

 

[The Necromancer]

Let's take DC for instance

Now Star Level DC, Small (2.998 tenatons) The ability to destroy small red dwarf stars such as VB10.

Large (330.554 tenatons) The ability to destroy blue giant stars such as Rigel.

The difference is clearly visible, theres a 328 tenaton difference between the destruction of a small star comapred to a large one, so basing DC on PL's alone is not credible enough to establish any grounds for any DC, or for the matter make powerscaling any easier, because PL's do not corroborate on DC. It makes no sense they do, the DC to bust a planet is far great then moon busting as well.

Moon Level - (29 exatons).

Planetary Level - (57.3 zettatons)

1 zettaton= 1000 exatons, the enrgy gap is tremendous even between moon and planet busting, it's obvious, PL's don't corroborate this. Also in crossovers it's relevant you base it DC on feats, and feats alone (powerscaling from weaker character can be applicable, but it doesn't work when the verse itself, well DBZ has never shown us anything above planet level, they are based entirely on powerscaling which is solar system at most)

So what you're over explaining in more simple terms is that you don't know whether each unit of power in their power level charts increases exponentially or logarithmically. Correct?

 

[Ging]

...............................................

 

[7th Biggest OP Fan]

Let's take DC for instance

Now Star Level DC, Small (2.998 tenatons) The ability to destroy small red dwarf stars such as VB10.

Large (330.554 tenatons) The ability to destroy blue giant stars such as Rigel.

The difference is clearly visible, theres a 328 tenaton difference between the destruction of a small star comapred to a large one, so basing DC on PL's alone is not credible enough to establish any grounds for any DC, or for the matter make powerscaling any easier, because PL's do not corroborate on DC. It makes no sense they do, the DC to bust a planet is far great then moon busting as well.

Moon Level - (29 exatons).

Planetary Level - (57.3 zettatons)

1 zettaton= 1000 exatons, the enrgy gap is tremendous even between moon and planet busting, it's obvious, PL's don't corroborate this. Also in crossovers it's relevant you base it DC on feats, and feats alone (powerscaling from weaker character can be applicable, but it doesn't work when the verse itself, well DBZ has never shown us anything above planet level, they are based entirely on powerscaling which is solar system at most)

Not to mention the feat was pure PSI.

Roshi can barley move a small boulder, but can blow up the moon.

Spoiler

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Also the only other time he was shown using that attack it blew up a small hill. We are to presume is can blow up the moon as well? The feat from Roshi really shouldn't be used.

 

[The Necromancer]

Not to mention the feat was pure PSI.

Roshi can barley move a small boulder, but can blow up the moon.

Spoiler

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Also the only other time he was shown using that attack it blew up a small hill. We are to presume is can blow up the moon as well? The feat from Roshi really shouldn't be used.

You're too stuck on the moon example. Base level Frieza effortlessly (and immediately) destroyed planet Vegeta.

Frieza has a power level of 85,000

Vegeta's power level by the end of BotG is upwards of 1,200,000,000 which is nearly 15,000x higher.

Please. Educate me. Truly.

 

[Mahesvara]

Not to mention the feat was pure PSI.

Roshi can barley move a small boulder, but can blow up the moon.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Also the only other time he was shown using that attack it blew up a small hill. We are to presume is can blow up the moon as well? The feat from Roshi really shouldn't be used.

You don't have to presume anything, because he actually did blow up the moon.

You must be registered for see images

 

[7th Biggest OP Fan]

You don't have to presume anything, because he actually did blow up the moon.

You must be registered for see images

*facepalm*

The beginning of my post said him doing what you just posted was PSI(Plot Induced Stupidity). It was a way to show how Goku could be beaten in his Oozaru form. At that point in time Toriyama didn't use much logic in his drawing. Mind you his last big hit was a comical manga, and he at the time had trouble transitioning to a more serious manga with logic.

The point is the feat shouldn't be taken seriously and be used to power scale everything to. It just doesn't make sense. This is what the OP was getting at, and why I was showing the scans I did. Logically it does not make any sense.

 

[The Necromancer]

*facepalm*

The beginning of my post said him doing what you just posted was PSI(Plot Induced Stupidity). It was a way to show how Goku could be beaten in his Oozaru form. At that point in time Toriyama didn't use much logic in his drawing. Mind you his last big hit was a comical manga, and he at the time had trouble transitioning to a more serious manga with logic.

The point is the feat shouldn't be taken seriously and be used to power scale everything to. It just doesn't make sense. This is what the OP was getting at, and why I was showing the scans I did. Logically it does not make any sense.

So you decide to read with bias, and exclude all that goes against your opinion?

From where I'm sitting, the thing that doesn't make sense is why he couldn't lift a rock, seeing as how he once had the power to destroy the moon...

Still waiting on my previous comment, by the way.

 

[Mahesvara]

*facepalm*

The beginning of my post said him doing what you just posted was PSI(Plot Induced Stupidity). It was a way to show how Goku could be beaten in his Oozaru form. At that point in time Toriyama didn't use much logic in his drawing. Mind you his last big hit was a comical manga, and he at the time had trouble transitioning to a more serious manga with logic.

The point is the feat shouldn't be taken seriously and be used to power scale everything to. It just doesn't make sense. This is what the OP was getting at, and why I was showing the scans I did. Logically it does not make any sense.

So going by your logic, ignore the feat because it doesn't logically make any sense to you?

Lol.

 

[7th Biggest OP Fan]

So you decide to read with bias, and exclude all that goes against your opinion?

From where I'm sitting, the thing that doesn't make sense is why he couldn't lift a rock, seeing as how he once had the power to destroy the moon...

Still waiting on my previous comment, by the way.

So going by your logic, ignore the feat because it doesn't logically make any sense to you?

Lol.

Let me put this is an an easier way for you guys to understand.


Sakura was able to hurt Kagura by getting behind her and punching her.


Sakura has greater DC then 8th gate guy by that logic, and able to keep up with her speed wise who Sasuke had trouble to do, since he was warped in another dimension and all.


so by your guys logic, that wasn't PSI and Sakura is top 5. Okay then.

 

[The Necromancer]

Let me put this is an an easier way for you guys to understand.


Sakura was able to hurt Kagura by getting behind her and punching her.


Sakura has greater DC then 8th gate guy by that logic, and able to keep up with her speed wise who Sasuke had trouble to do, since he was warped in another dimension and all.


so by your guys logic, that wasn't PSI and Sakura is top 5. Okay then.

Typical Naruto fan response. Can't see the greater picture for the single event.

1. Kaguya had far larger priorities she was worrying about than to watch out for Sakura
2. Yes. Sakura's physical strength is equal to, if not greater than RM Naruto's by feats. That's what feats are for. Does that upset you?

It's people like you that make debating pointless on this forum, because while any position in any debate can be backed with facts, feats, and manga scans, you instead choose to use blind bias and accusation.

Next time you try to make a point, actually back it with some logic.