[VS] Darui vs Hashirama

[gabe07j]

Argument is that Daruis black lightning paralyses hashirama, his laser circus is super fast and cannot be dodged. And by know he's probably mastered how to execute these in an instant making him super fast like the raikage or minato. An instant killer. Of course if he was sloppy. Hashiramas large arsenal would win. But he won't be cause he's a raikage.
P.S he's had a lot of time to train since Shippuden. When hashiramas was last shown. Do he's very powerful with more intel

 

[salamander uchiha]

Argument is that Daruis black lightning paralyses hashirama, his laser circus is super fast and cannot be dodged. And by know he's probably mastered how to execute these in an instant making him super fast like the raikage or minato. An instant killer. Of course if he was sloppy. Hashiramas large arsenal would win. But he won't be cause he's a raikage.
P.S he's had a lot of time to train since Shippuden. When hashiramas was last shown. Do he's very powerful with more intel

You're argument would need to qualify Darui's speed, ability to pull of jutsu and trip the Hashirama before he gets penetrated by the big wood.

 

[Im_not_Osama_bin_laden]

Personally i don't think so but currently im at the gym right now so I will reply with a better argument later.

 

[Infant]

You're argument would need to qualify Darui's speed, ability to pull of jutsu and trip the Hashirama before he gets penetrated by the big wood.

FKS feats place him at V1, which is as fast as jonin Minato.
WA feats allow him to beat Kinkaku who made a mockery of Tobirama, who is faster than Hashirama.

So he can indeed get the BL going. If its faster than SS comes out, he wins. If not, Hashi blocks and outlasts at minimum.

 

[salamander uchiha]

FKS feats place him at V1, which is as fast as jonin Minato.
WA feats allow him to beat Kinkaku who made a mockery of Tobirama, who is faster than Hashirama.

So he can indeed get the BL going. If its faster than SS comes out, he wins. If not, Hashi blocks and outlasts at minimum.

No chance, Jonin Minato used FTG to dodge raikage. Darui has nothing that puts him at v1, very few people do.

 

[Infant]

No chance, Jonin Minato used FTG to dodge raikage. Darui has nothing that puts him at v1, very few people do.

So that puts Minato at Base Raikage physical movement speed.

Darui moved in tandem with Raikage when they attacked Sasuke, implying equal speed.
Darui beat Suigetsu in sword play, which involves speed. Suigetsu in turn matched Jugo who at least required V1 from Raikage
Darui then landed a clean hit on Kinkaku, who embarrassed Tobirama (you need to blitz to beat a FTG user since anything less can be mentally reacted to and that means FTG escape) twice.

So there's actually quite a lot. I haven't even mentioned Darui growing to be a challenge to aliens.

Also: What?
Literally read the post you quoted, I mentioned Kinkaku! How can you just say "no way, there's nothng" when I provided something?

 

[salamander uchiha]

So that puts Minato at Base Raikage physical movement speed.

Darui moved in tandem with Raikage when they attacked Sasuke, implying equal speed.
Darui beat Suigetsu in sword play, which involves speed. Suigetsu in turn matched Jugo who at least required V1 from Raikage
Darui then landed a clean hit on Kinkaku, who embarrassed Tobirama (you need to blitz to beat a FTG user since anything less can be mentally reacted to and that means FTG escape) twice.

So there's actually quite a lot. I haven't even mentioned Darui growing to be a challenge to aliens.

Also: What?
Literally read the post you quoted, I mentioned Kinkaku! How can you just say "no way, there's nothng" when I provided something?

He wasn't next to the raikage when he tried speed blitz was he?

Sword play has never equalled speed, where did you get that from? That is unless he used it to overcome Suigetsu's monstrous executioner blade, like Sasuke does to cut him down.

Kinkaku didn't embarrass Tobirama, Tobirama went and fought an entire unit dying in the process. How are you comparing that to using ninja tools?

The aliens were actually fodder, Naruto and Sasuke were nerfed for the fights. The fact a couple of Kage level ninja can match them should tell you how inferior they actually are.

Kinkaku has no speed feats so..

 

[Infant]

He wasn't next to the raikage when he tried speed blitz was he?

We know such tag team moves require equal speed from Lariat, so trends say they're equal (V1 to Darui). You could argue Raikage didn't move at full V1 speed, but he was definitely above base.

Sword play has never equalled speed, where did you get that from? That is unless he used it to overcome Suigetsu's monstrous executioner blade, like Sasuke does to cut him down.

I said it includes speed, not that it completely and utterly depends on it.

It requires dodging, reacting and swinging. All those are speed-based and speed-dependant movements. Why do I have to explain this basic stuff?

Kinkaku didn't embarrass Tobirama, Tobirama went and fought an entire unit dying in the process. How are you comparing that to using ninja tools

Twice over

Firstly duringthe kage summit witg Raikage, where Tobirama was left on the brink of death. It was an ambush, but we'd have to believe that a hyper-cautious Tobirama and a Raikagewho knew his own internal politics were completely knowledgeless on the Bros in order to not have anticipated that attack.
Even then, Tobirama being cuatious would've prepped FTG for counterattacking.
So if he was even tagged, he has to have been blitzed because anything less than a blitz, then FTG would've been used to escape the first hit and then counter attack.

Then during the death battle. Its understandable for Tobirama to have taken a few hits for a few minutes in order for Hiruzen and Danzo to escape, but actually it isn't.
Hiruzen was already Hokage level (which, in-verse, is scaled above lage level) so he wouldn't have needed much time to escape.
Secondly, if Tobirama felt three (Tobirama, Hiruzen, Danzo) Hokage level fighters with backup couldn't win aganst Gin and s Kin with fodder backup, that says Kin and Gin are super powerful compared to the trio.
Thirdly, Danzo is also Hokage level by virtue of parallelling Hiruzen. So that makes three guys (Tobirama, Hiruzen, Danzo) who are Hokage level that Tobirama felt wouldn't make a difference . . . Probably based on experience against the Gold and Silver Brothers. This lends credence to the idea that Tobirama was truly outmatched during the previous clash (where he had Raikage as ally, Raikage normally being speedsters who are difficult to ambush in their own right).
Fourthly, GSB have no special attacks, so if they killed Tobirama it has to be classic beatdown that relies on base stats.
Fianlly, 20 fodder backup should he nothing to a FTG user of even jonin level. FTG specialises in avoiding attacks then blindsiding. It literally turns an ambush against itself. Remember Minato? He's famous for fodderising 50 JOUNIN instantly because FTG.

So its only possible if Tobirama was genuinely blitzed by the GSB.

What about Ninja Tools? I didn't say anything about them?

The aliens were actually fodder, Naruto and Sasuke were nerfed for the fights. The fact a couple of Kage level ninja can match them should tell you how inferior they actually are

Someone who beats, cleanly, Sasuke in bukijutsu is not fodder. Please!

Kinkaku has no speed feats so.

Say what?

Even his ET starts off by fodderising the division before Darui and co arrive. Then there's the above.

Please get your info straight

 

[Uverdore9]

Base Hashirama might get quickly overwhelmed, however, I doubt SM encounters the exact fate, though. Black lighting is OP as hell, but I doubt it permeates Golem that blocked 100% Kyūbi TBB. That, and there's insufficient evidence pertaining the BL as the features are lacking, sans hype, that could barely be applied to combat simulations. Although, intellectually applying would likely lead to concluding the battle in Darui's favor.

 

[Infant]

Base Hashirama might get quickly overwhelmed, however, I doubt SM encounters the exact fate, though. Black lighting is OP as hell, but I doubt it permeates Golem that blocked 100% Kyūbi TBB. That, and there's insufficient evidence pertaining the BL as the features are lacking, sans hype, that could barely be applied to combat simulations. Although, intellectually applying would likely lead to concluding the battle in Darui's favor.

Bold: matchup
Raiton vs Doton-based element

Underlined: War Arc
A basic shot took out dozens of Zetsu indirectly

 

[Uverdore9]

Bold: matchup
Raiton vs Doton-based element

Underlined: War Arc
A basic shot took out dozens of Zetsu indirectly

Mokūton is unlikely to be a Earth Element based Ninjutsu sans the elements necessitated to produce the aforementioned ie., Earth + Water + lifeforce energy.

The reason I say this, is by virtue of the fact that a recomposed element shouldn't necessarily be pray, to the chinks of it's fragment elements, for instance, inference Jinton - it's elementally comprised of 3 elements assimilated, however, it's unlikely for it to share the limits of it's fragment constituents. I mean, are you by chance of the opinion that water, fire, earth, lighting, or default elements could likely deter Particle element to cascade, or malfunction, by any probable metric?

Subsequently I'm unsure if BL could logically trounce The Golem, presuming it does exude an elemental inferiority, tbh. White Zetsu are 1/86 (Madara extracted a miniscule fragment of the limb flesh subsequently biologically altering the cells to exude plant seeds to produce Zetsu) or probably inferior to Hashirama's 100% Prime Power, it's an established fact that an inferior variant in ET Hashirama contested Rinnegan ET Mokūton enhanced Madara Uchiha displaying significant parity, though yea, he was signified to be in SM, indeed, that arguably accounts for the enhancement in durability, and physicals.

100% Prime Hashirama should be exponentially superior to that by scaling. A direct strike shouldn't be an impossibility for the God Of Shinobi, to cascade, or effortlessly nullify, tbh.

Actually, I doubt Matchup stipulations pertains to God-Tiers, and those proximiting that Tier.

I could see Darūi grabbing the V, if the Avatar Jūbizords are restricted, even than w/ like Mid- High extreme difficulty, tbh.

 

[minamoto]

Mokūton is unlikely to be a Earth Element based Ninjutsu sans the elements necessitated to produce the aforementioned ie., Earth + Water + lifeforce energy.

The reason I say this, is by virtue of the fact that a recomposed element shouldn't necessarily be pray, to the chinks of it's fragment elements, for instance, inference Jinton - it's elementally comprised of 3 elements assimilated, however, it's unlikely for it to share the limits of it's fragment constituents. I mean, are you by chance of the opinion that water, fire, earth, lighting, or default elements could likely deter Particle element to cascade, or malfunction, by any probable metric?

Subsequently I'm unsure if BL could logically trounce The Golem, presuming it does exude an elemental inferiority, tbh. White Zetsu are 1/86 (Madara extracted a miniscule fragment of the limb flesh subsequently biologically altering the cells to exude plant seeds to produce Zetsu) or probably inferior to Hashirama's 100% Prime Power, it's an established fact that an inferior variant in ET Hashirama contested Rinnegan ET Mokūton enhanced Madara Uchiha displaying significant parity, though yea, he was signified to be in SM, indeed, that arguably accounts for the enhancement in durability, and physicals.

100% Prime Hashirama should be exponentially superior to that by scaling. A direct strike shouldn't be an impossibility for the God Of Shinobi, to cascade, or effortlessly nullify, tbh.

Actually, I doubt Matchup stipulations pertains to God-Tiers, and those proximiting that Tier.

I could see Darūi grabbing the V, if the Avatar Jūbizords are restricted, even than w/ like Mid- High extreme difficulty, tbh.

some much bull$hits in one comment...

 

[Infant]

Mokūton is unlikely to be a Earth Element based Ninjutsu sans the elements necessitated to produce the aforementioned ie., Earth + Water + lifeforce energy.

The reason I say this, is by virtue of the fact that a recomposed element shouldn't necessarily be pray, to the chinks of it's fragment elements, for instance, inference Jinton - it's elementally comprised of 3 elements assimilated, however, it's unlikely for it to share the limits of it's fragment constituents. I mean, are you by chance of the opinion that water, fire, earth, lighting, or default elements could likely deter Particle element to cascade, or malfunction, by any probable metric?

Subsequently I'm unsure if BL could logically trounce The Golem, presuming it does exude an elemental inferiority, tbh. White Zetsu are 1/86 (Madara extracted a miniscule fragment of the limb flesh subsequently biologically altering the cells to exude plant seeds to produce Zetsu) or probably inferior to Hashirama's 100% Prime Power, it's an established fact that an inferior variant in ET Hashirama contested Rinnegan ET Mokūton enhanced Madara Uchiha displaying significant parity, though yea, he was signified to be in SM, indeed, that arguably accounts for the enhancement in durability, and physicals.

100% Prime Hashirama should be exponentially superior to that by scaling. A direct strike shouldn't be an impossibility for the God Of Shinobi, to cascade, or effortlessly nullify, tbh.

Actually, I doubt Matchup stipulations pertains to God-Tiers, and those proximiting that Tier.

I could see Darūi grabbing the V, if the Avatar Jūbizords are restricted, even than w/ like Mid- High extreme difficulty, tbh.

I'd like to be more extensive but time is not my ally

1. Bakuton, also apples and oranges
We know from Explosion Release that base elements do carry over weaknesses. Same from Crystal Release being weak to Raiton. Funny, both are Doton based.
You compared a Kekkei Genkai with a Kekkei Mora. Even then, mechanics actually allow Jinton to be disturbed, but before it activites. (I'd have to go deep to explain, l8r)

2. Partisan scaling
Zetsu isn't 1/86 Madara, Zetsu predates Madara, firstly.
Black Lightning from a WA Darui (I presume this is Boruto Darui), so also weaker
Black Lightning using only a portion (less than 1%) of Darui total chakra, so also weaker
Black Lightning that was diluted in water, so again weaker.
Black Lightning that took out not just one, but an entire squad of Zetsu, so again downscaled.

3. Edo Hokage are stronger, not weaker
Orohimaru brought them fully back, or almost
Then they have immortality
Then they have regen chakra

4. Edo Mads is stronger, not weaker
Firstly Kabuto statement which applied long before . . .
Then Hashi boost
Then ET boost (full control over himself takes out the physical stats loss)
Then Rinnegan

5. Tiers are relative
Just coz its 'g-d tier' doesn't give it some sort of absouteness or immunity to universal tropes like matchup
Matchups are relative. Kid Naruto could never matchup win against Zabuza tiers difference is too much. Likewise Zabuza vs Hashirama. But Kid Naruto can matchup beat Kiba, likewise Zabuza to Kakashi. Same applies with any two characters close enough in tiers/scaling.

G2g, more later

 

[salamander uchiha]

Wtf is Partisan scaling?

Way too much trolling here.

@Tauren Chieftain your thoughts?

 

[Infant]

Wtf is Partisan scaling?

Way too much trolling here.

@Tauren Chieftain your thoughts?

One sided scaling/arguing.

Its a fallacy because we're dealing with two sides/parties (hence partisan). So any scaling or evidence or arguing has to connect alll relevant parties or its not prooof

 

[salamander uchiha]

One sided scaling/arguing.

Its a fallacy because we're dealing with two sides/parties (hence partisan). So any scaling or evidence or arguing has to connect alll relevant parties or its not prooof

Yeah, That doesnt register. Anyway, you should give more detail on "connect all relevant parties." A few examples and why, would be nice.

 

[Tauren Chieftain]

Wtf is Partisan scaling?

Way too much trolling here.

@Tauren Chieftain your thoughts?

Infant is talking nonsense not worty going into serious debate.

Hashirama rapes him.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Infant is talking nonsense not worty going into serious debate.

Hashirama rapes him.

I see

And agree.

 

[Infant]

All relevant parties would, itt, be Hashirama and Darui

See what I did?
I pointed out not only.who Darui scales to, but also how Hashirama scales, thereby completing my.case.

What the other guy did was to talk up Hashirama Via Minato, but didn't actually.prove that Darui is necessarily slower. Never mind that, he didn't even prove how Hashirama scales to Minato. So his was meanngless rambling, offering no proof usable in this particular discussion.

 

[Kyuubishadowclone]

This must be a joke. Hashirama could take 3rd raikage, 4th raikage, and 5th raikage Darui all at the same time.