Danzo vs Edo Madara
- Thread starter Finn
- Start date
And on the other hand I hope that you do realize that he should in theory be able to make any one person do his bidding entirely. I highly doubt he would waste a technique that can only be used once every ten years on something subtle like that. It's not like the genjutsu was constantly being applied when it was used on Itachi as opposed to at the kage summit, Danzo never showed using Shisui's real MS.
Unless Shisui's MS was stronger than the next level of sharingan, rinnegan and the level to bind Kurama to his will. And able to affect the most powerful Uchiha--while Shisui was already renowned--then I fail to see how it will be anywhere near effective on someone whose genjutsu and skill surpasses Shisui's anyway.
Knightuchiha
Active member
danzo could use it much more frequently than once every than once every ten years, it never speciffically said how long, but the posession of senju dna durastically reduces the time in between uses
In theory, yes Danzo can technically take out anyone in the entire naruto world ( excluding so6p). And he did reduce the cooldown period of the jutsu by adding hashirama's cells to himself, so I dont think he would hesitate to use it. And I have no idea what you mean about it constantly being applied to Itachi, that doesnt have any relevance to this battle.
Im not saying Shisui's MS is stronger than ems/rinnegan, but the technique itself is most definitely stronger. For example with Itachi's Tsukuyomi it was stated that only an uchiha with the same blood as him could break it. now going by your logic, nagato or madara could break out of tsukuyomi all because it comes from an inferior doujutsu.
and lastly, madaras genjutsu does not surpass shisui's, KA was called the ultimate genjutsu. I have no doubt in my mind Madara hasnt got a genjutsu to rival it
What Danzo did with the technique that can manipulate anyone to do literally anything you say with but a glance? Manipulate them so subtly that words could have accomplished the same thing. If my goal was to be Hokage and I had a technique that could manipulate any one person to do anything I commanded, it sure wouldn't be extremely subtle hinting to said person to put in a good word at the kage summit. Danzo isn't the smartest guy, apparently.
It does, Danzo was constantly using a weak subtle manipulation genjutsu. It was never Kotoamatsukami. Kotoamatsukami isn't constantly applied, it's a genjutsu used one time. Danzo was constantly manipulating the others.
Regardless, him using the technique on Shisui's level which he hasn't shown the ability to use it to that extent, he has nothing to put Madara down and Edo Tensei are doubtful able to seal themselves.
Yes, that would be correct logic. Nagato hasn't been shown using genjutsu, so that I'll accept is debatable, but Madara clearly is the most skilled genjutsu user thus far and has superior doujutsu, and actually displayed his genjutsu skill in battle. I say he can easily break out of Tsukuyomi. Nagato could as well, given the conditions.
I'm saying it won't be anywhere near effective as it would be on someone with zero genjutsu defense. What would you expect Danzo to do anyway? Keeping in mind this is a near baseless assumption that Danzo can use it to this level, he has nothing that can put Madara down or seal him, regardless of what he commands in Kotoamatsukami. He could simply say, "let me kill you", "stay still", "kill yourself", none of it would do anything either way on account of Madara being an Edo, and the fight would go on until Danzo dies of old age or until Madara can actually break the genjutsu himself.
So so much of what you have said here is wrong I dont even know where to begin. You say he wasnt using KA? then what the hell was he using? oh right just that other genjutsu that exists which can control people without them even noticing :sy:
I have said it before and ill say it again, it was plot no jutsu pure and simple that Danzo was not in the top ranks of most powerful ninja in the series. You say he must have been stupid not to use it to gain the hokage position earlier and I completely agree, that it was S rank plot no jutsu which made sure he wasnt.
You also make claims that he cant use the technique on Shisui's level, which is wrong. In his fight against Sasuke he was saving KA for Tobi. He had complete confidence that saving KA for tobi was a good idea because he knew that with sasuke out of the way, he could just cast it on tobi practically instantly winning.
It is also not a matter of whether the doujutsu is superior, as it is not the eye itself it is the technique which actually matters. And saying that Madara was the strongest genjutsu user is just pure BS. Neither nagato or madara would be able to break out of KA, it is the Ultimate genjutsu
You also state that someone with actual genjutsu defence would have a chance against it....no. Edo Itachi (one of the characters with the highest genjutsu defence in the manga) was easily broken out of ET and given a specific one off order. If it still works so well on someone of that genjutsu calibur, then it will work against madara who has one small genjutsu feat against a fodder ninja.
To your last statement, Danzo is the leader of root. Of course he is going to have sealing jutsu :flaw:
Last edited:
Yes, I do think Shisui is capable of that and his eye holds the genjutsu capable of that. Either he's using that kind of genjutsu, or it's KA in a much much weaker, downgraded form for multiple uses.
You can pin plot on things you don't like, but this still happened. If Danzo could have used it to its full potential he would have, it's a fairly simple concept. Either that, or he's retarded.
And I agree, Danzo is incredibly powerful, one of the strongest for sure. But he can't compare to the strongest(bar Rikudou Sage and the obvious).
When did he say this? I actually recall something similar but don't remember exactly. This also is contradictory to your first claims. If Danzo was actually using Kotoamatsukami on the others, there's no way he was "saving KA for Tobi" here.
It is actually, the EMS is a far far upgraded version of the regular Mangekyou Sharingan. It's the two MS users eyes in combination, essentially. Madara is the most skilled genjutsu user, Uchiha and sharingan wielder in the manga, no if's and's or but's about it. Regardless if EMS was irrelevant, I fail to see how Shisui's MS genjutsu would be as effective on the top tier Madara Uchiha, with the greatest genjutsu skill in the manga, and to add to his EMS, the Rinnegan both.
When has Itachi actually shown a genjutsu defense? Well, as I said, Itachi had no reason to break out of this considering if he did, he would be placed back under Kabuto's control. Madara's genjutsu skill is far superior to Itachi's, again, so that's fairly irrelevant as well.
Ha, oh yeah. Point taken. =P
FloriGlori
Active member
Depends on the starting distance. Koto Amatsukami would mean Madara's certain defeat, but I doubt that it can be used at any range - like Tsukuyomi just ranges from cero to five meters.
Since Madara was the former leader of the Uchiha clan and has immense knowledge about the world of Naruto, it can be assumed (but not stated) that he's aware of Koto Amatsukami. If that's the case and they start at a great distance, this goes to Madara, since he's good at both close and far range. Mokuton, Meteor, etc.
Since Madara was the former leader of the Uchiha clan and has immense knowledge about the world of Naruto, it can be assumed (but not stated) that he's aware of Koto Amatsukami. If that's the case and they start at a great distance, this goes to Madara, since he's good at both close and far range. Mokuton, Meteor, etc.
Last edited:
Sigh danzo wins
for people saying it wont work on rinegan,
do remember tobi was afraid to give kabuto shishui's dna because he would use it on him
and what does tobi have? uchiha dna, senju dna, rinnegan
almost all the same things as madara
for people saying it wont work on rinegan,
do remember tobi was afraid to give kabuto shishui's dna because he would use it on him
and what does tobi have? uchiha dna, senju dna, rinnegan
almost all the same things as madara