Current Kakashi (without Sharingan) vs Kisame (without samehada)

[Rιver]

sharingan cant see through it, thats why kakashi took of the handband when he fights strong opponents...

Sharingan can see chakra through matter

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. He only takes it off to provide better vision.

 

[ATD]

Sharingan can see chakra through matter

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. He only takes it off to provide better vision.

I think that was possible because the snakes were made out of pure chakra which has a special color.
I doubt the sharingan can detect Ninjas underground when they cant see the chakra like that

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[TheAncientCenturion]

Good argument, but i doubt that this time kisame will be able to cange the enviroment.
Last time e ad an advantage because the area was hilly and had many small dephts.

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it is impossible to change this location into water, there is already a river flowing next to them.

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in his last fight with guy he was only able to use that many sharks cause they were on top of the ocean, in my opinion.
Kakashi is also able to use shadow clones and he is faster than kisame.
His raiton is very usefull against kisames sharks cause it coducts through water.
His beast runner is fast and can blitz kisame before e can use large scale jutsus.

i hope you will bring good arguments and please consider Kakashi is able to go underground because the location definitely offers parts which are free of water.
Also be aware of kakashis beast runner and his superior speed.
Good luck !

I'll start with the first two bolded points; What feats do these hounds have that suggest they can blitz Kisame Hoshigaki from forty meters before he can get off a single technique? Killer Bee, faster than a base Kakashi with his bijuu cloak, was unable to outfox Kisame.

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and

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taking the least amount of damage as possible. He has ample reaction feats to be able to detect this attack, and any other trickery Kakashi may attempt with this.

Now, let's take into account what Kisame can do to counter it with ease. His hand seal speed is amazing, look at all these seals

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to use a mere shark bullet. A Daikodan

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, and with a pre-existing water source, is even quicker than having him spit it from his mouth. The raiton hound is absorbed and countered, with a sizable bullet being sent Kakashi's way as Kisame uses Bakusui Shōha.

Going underground is useless here. Kisame's able to flood the entire region, despite what you've provided earlier. Kisame was able to keep a

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. Doing something similar here is no real issue. With utilizing Mizu Bunshin, any chance at surprising Kisame is gone as each copy can replicate a Daikodan at any surprise raiton attack.

The abbreviated version; Kisame's able to react to anything Kakashi can throw at him from the start and respond accordingly. With the ability to utilize a preexisting water source, and able to flood the region he gains the territory advantage. Any raiton is absorbed by Daikodan, with clones being able to keep an eye for any surprise attacks Kakashi tries. Suiton sharks will eventually feast on kakashi. he literally cannot hurt Kisame provided he keeps his distance.

 

[ATD]

I'll start with the first two bolded points; What feats do these hounds have that suggest they can blitz Kisame Hoshigaki from forty meters before he can get off a single technique? Killer Bee, faster than a base Kakashi with his bijuu cloak, was unable to outfox Kisame.

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and

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taking the least amount of damage as possible. He has ample reaction feats to be able to detect this attack, and any other trickery Kakashi may attempt with this.

The lightning dog of kakashi was shown only 1 time against deva path.
The distance between them was ca. 30-40 meters and the dog ran very fast in a zig zag course.
The dog was able to reach pain in one pannel

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and the only option for deva path was to use shinra tensei

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Deva path was able to run away from 6 tailed naruto, this shows how fast he is.

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Killerbee in v1 isnt faster than current kakashi.
The sharigan isnt giving the user a speed advatage, it allows the user to react better to attacks which it is able to see, it can cast genjutsus when it looks in another eye, it allows the user to copy handseals and body movements when it look at these, it can see the color of chakra.
Kakashi without the sharingan is still as fast as before.
The chidori a fast stab was grabed by one eyed kakashi without the sharingan active

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This shows base kakashis reaction speed with one normal eye.
Now he has 2 normal working eyes, which means he is not handicaped anymore, thanks to naruto.
His reaction speed woud be even greater.
Kakashis food speed is also the same as before

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keeping up with 6 gate guy and jinchurikis, ofc he needed the sharingan to react to the fast punches of the jinchurikis

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but kisame is no opponent who kakashi need the sharingan for to keep up with kisames movements or speed, kisame is not one of the fastes, normal eyes of Kakashi are enough to see through kisames moves.

Kisame was able to react and analyze killer bees attacks due to samehada which absorbed the raiton and the chakra of the headbut, otherwise kisame had been defeated in the first minute.

Now, let's take into account what Kisame can do to counter it with ease. His hand seal speed is amazing, look at all these seals

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to use a mere shark bullet. A Daikodan

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, and with a pre-existing water source, is even quicker than having him spit it from his mouth. The raiton hound is absorbed and countered, with a sizable bullet being sent Kakashi's way as Kisame uses Bakusui Shōha.

The difference between beast runner and kisames water jutsus is that beast runner doesnt require handseals, it is a fast shot and even if kisame should be able to preform a jutsu as fast as the beast runner, the dog can dodge the jutsu of kisame with his zig zag course and will land a hit on the orgiinal kisame.
To use Great shark bullet kisame has to concentrate chakra for a long time, his hands are pressed together a few panels before he was able to shot the jutsu

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Going underground is useless here. Kisame's able to flood the entire region, despite what you've provided earlier. Kisame was able to keep a

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. Doing something similar here is no real issue. With utilizing Mizu Bunshin, any chance at surprising Kisame is gone as each copy can replicate a Daikodan at any surprise raiton attack.

lets have a look at the location again

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the water which kisame summons would flow back into the river next to the path.
Going underground will counter a lot of jutsus of kisame, Kakashi is able to go faster underground than kisame is able to create a water dome

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Kakashi can also use shadow clones to handle the mizu bunshins
and mizu bunshins have to concentrate chakra a longer time to use GSB, that would take to long against a fast underground attack

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The abbreviated version; Kisame's able to react to anything Kakashi can throw at him from the start and respond accordingly. With the ability to utilize a preexisting water source, and able to flood the region he gains the territory advantage. Any raiton is absorbed by Daikodan, with clones being able to keep an eye for any surprise attacks Kakashi tries. Suiton sharks will eventually feast on kakashi. he literally cannot hurt Kisame provided he keeps his distance.

Raiton is to fast for daikodan i proved above
I doubt kisame can react to the fast attacks of kakashi without samehada
normal sharks are blocked with doton
after kisame gets paralyzed kakashi will cut his head off with raikiri kunai
He can fool kisame with a ration clone
Kakashis clones can handle the clones of kisame, kakashi has now the stamina and chakra to do it.
I still think kakashi will win high diff

 

[synkross]

Kakashi without Obito's sharingan is high jonin lvl at best, while Kisame is S-Rank, i'd give this to Kisame, Mid-low difficulty.

 

[ATD]

Kakashi without Obito's sharingan is high jonin lvl at best, while Kisame is S-Rank, i'd give this to Kisame, Mid-low difficulty.

Kakashi is more than high jonin, whats is kisame without samehada ?

 

[ATD]

So Kakashi with 3T managed a win off Zabuza high diff (in the first fight he had to worry about team 7).

What has zabuza to do with this ? Their fight was in part 1, thats not relevant anymore.

But a downgraded Kakashi who's only improvement is better stamina (NOTHING says his Taijutsu improved drastically between the time skip) can suddenly defeat the guy who fodderized Neji, Lee, and Tenten with clones of a 30% clone.

Better stamina also make his taijutsu better, he can't see through movements anymore, but his normal eyes will be able to follow kisames moves, which aren't that fast, when 1 eyed base kakashi grabbed a chidori from sasuke he will have no problems reacting to kisames punches or sword slashes now that he even got his old other eye back.

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I never mistrust his chakra levels, they are great and even 30 % kisame was a chgakra beast, but that time only his chakra was restricted to 30%, his other skills were still the same as always. Where is stated that Kisame who fought team 10 only was 30% taijutsu,30%ninjutsu,30% strength.......
And to be honest, that team attack of neji, lee and tenten against kisame from above was a fodder plan, every other strong character could have blocked that with clones.

He tanked a punch to the face point blank by 7G Gai, bit his tongue, and broke Yamato's wood binding. Shall I mention how Yamato's wood binding was able to restrict 4t Naruto's movements?

I never doubt his durability, but a raikiri kunai point blank blow to the face would finish him even when he tanked a 7 gate punch.

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i never said that he is not strong, but kakashi is faster than kisame and is able to dodge kisames taijutsu moves with his superior speed and his new stamina combined with his taijutsu skills.

So don't give me the "I haven't seen any good arguments for Kisame" nonsense. 30% Kisame destroyed Base Gai, and clones of the 30% clone destroyed Team Gai.

you never countered the beast runner argument,
you haven't countered the fact that kakashi can avoid all of kisames water jutsus with hiding like a mole
i don't see how kisame doesn't get fooled by a raition clone

I swear, next you're going to tell me that Base Kakashi can fight on par or better against Base Gai...which is BS. Kakashi needed 3t to keep up. Which is shown through the fact that they were portrayed equal since both had
roughly 50 wins against each other.

current kakashi is better in taijutsu than early shippuuden base guy, but war arc base guy showed he was able to keep up in taijutsu with kamui obito, which won't be surpassed by base kakashi.
Current base guy unfortunately would loose against current kakashi due to his lost leg.

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[DrProof]

Why is this being argued? Kisame obviously wins.

 

[paratise]

Samehada without Kisame can beat current Kakashi.

 

[ATD]

Why is this being argued? Kisame obviously wins.

if you want, you can read my posts where i supported kakashi and give me a feedback, but i still think kakashi can take this high diff.

 

[ATD]

Samehada without Kisame can beat current Kakashi.

Thats is a terrible joke =D

 

[paratise]

Thats is a terrible joke =D

Lies you L O L ed at it.

 

[ATD]

Lies you L O L ed at it.

instead of making useless comments tell me how kisame wins this ?

 

[Rιver]

instead of making useless comments tell me how kisame wins this ?

Because a Daikodan and 1 000 sharks eat up Kakashi no matter how you look at it. Raiton? Pfft, he can't even use Chidori properly anymore.

 

[ATD]

Because a Daikodan and 1 000 sharks eat up Kakashi no matter how you look at it. Raiton? Pfft, he can't even use Chidori properly anymore.

how is kisame summoning 1000 sharks when they are not on an ocean ?
beast runner
raiton bunshin
raiden
raiton kunai
this variants are still working even without sharingan.

DOton hiding like mole allows kakashi to dodge Daikodan.

 

[Rιver]

how is kisame summoning 1000 sharks when they are not on an ocean ?
beast runner
raiton bunshin
raiden
raiton kunai
this variants are still working even without sharingan.

DOton hiding like mole allows kakashi to dodge Daikodan.

One clap creates him an ocean as big Russia. So your point?

Because any techniques like that are relevant. Kisame can absorb the Raiton variants with his own hands and any other are either a fuel to his Suiton or irrelevant.

 

[paratise]

instead of making useless comments tell me how kisame wins this ?

Kakashi's suitons are useless so scratch them. His doton walls are too miniscule to gain elemental advantage nor would be much handy on suiton flooded battlefield. Raiton projectiles are dodged same way happened with Bee's raiton enhanced pencil. In CqC they have comparable speed and skill but Kisame has insane strength advantage, Kakashi gets punched away like happened to Gai and he is nowhere as durable/pain resistent as latter. Kakashi's clones would get countered by Kisame's own clones. These are all with their comparable arsenal, water prisons, 1000 feeding sharks, summons and great shark bullet have no counters by Kakashi.

PS you do not have to reply to this because i have no intend to debate now.

 

[ATD]

One clap creates him an ocean as big Russia. So your point?

Because any techniques like that are relevant. Kisame can absorb the Raiton variants with his own hands and any other are either a fuel to his Suiton or irrelevant.

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look at the location the river contains not as much water than an ocean, the water kisame would summon only flows back into the river due to the flat ground.

Kisame isnt absorbing a beast runner with his hands, he is not preta path, he absorbed chakra from that fodder which threw kunais with wires hold by him.

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thats nothing compared to beast runner, kisame would get paralyzed if he tries to absorb the ration dog.

 

[Rιver]

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look at the location the river contains not as much water than an ocean, the water kisame would summon only flows back into the river due to the flat ground.

Kisame isnt absorbing a beast runner with his hands, he is not preta path, he absorbed chakra from that fodder which threw kunais with wires hold by him.

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thats nothing compared to beast runner, kisame would get paralyzed if he tries to absorb the ration dog.

Are you really telling me Kisame can't create water so big? A third of him created water casually this size

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.

lol, It gets absorbed you know it.

 

[Apêx1]

Kisame uses Daikodan and the fight is over then and there. For the Sake of argument;
-Kakashi's CQC is a joke for Kisame, who can block Gai's kicks effortlessly [

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] and has strength so immense he causes massive bursts of water after his power overcomes Gai's skills [

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].
-Kakashi being under the water means he's losing to suiton sharks [

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] and real sharks [

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].
-Kakashi has no counter for 1000 sharks [

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] as it's AOE is much too great for Kakashi to counter it.
-Kisame can still absorb without Samehada while fighting [

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], Raiton is no different. Notice that he drained the person's entire chakra pool immediately, so saying it's not comparable to Samehada at all is fallacious.

Water Dome isn't even needed for this fight imo, can't believe people are actually debating this. Kakashi with 3T vs Kisame without Samehada is still a one sided stomp for Kisame.