[Discussion] Crocodile's strength: a retcon or Luffy beat someone way better than him?

[Punk Hazard]

Luffy was defeated twice. Neg diffed both times. Nakama power pulled him through. You can't deny that.

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, keep in mind Crocodile didn't even use his poison during the legit fights either.

Crocodile was seemingly nerfed during the Alabasta arc anyways. Sorry, but would he really get neg diffed by an Admiral?

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, not saying that one move was especially significant, simply saying it shows Crocodile displayed a new level of strength in Marineford which he presumably had before since he was locked up all that time anyways.

Over the two year timeskip I can only presume Crocodile got stronger as he is alive and well in the New World.

That doesn't indicate any kind of new strength level whatsoever. Logia's break apart when they're struck without Haki. Just a few chapters before, half of Akainu's chest was gone due to cannon fire. Just two months ago, we saw Bartolomeo take the equivalent of cannon fire to the face and he's unscratched now. Even Zoro could have done what Crocodile did pre-skip if Akainu just took the attack.

Nakama power pulled him trough? What do u mean by that?
One time Robin saved him because she was interested in those who carry the D (Luffy in this case)
The other was just pure luck that a ball of water conveniently fell on him
I don't see nakama power here. The thing that pulled him trough is actually the fact that his endurance is abnormal. Even when he was a child he was hung on a rope and beaten to a bloody pulp but recovered extremely fast
Luffy can just take a lot of damage , that's all there is to it

Basically this. Crocodile was way stronger, but Luffy's endurance was too much for him. Plus, the fact that Crocodile didn't use his water absorption during the third fight could indicate he was rustled at Luffy and Robin's betrayal, his mindstate wasn't right.

 

[sage1999]

luffy got defeated three times and needed help from robin on atleast 2 occasions. He would have been brutally killed due to dehydration. It was through sheer luck and plot convenience that luffy beat croco (he just mysteriously got water which is croco kown weakness) ans still got his ass handed three times... marineford luffy without croco weakness knowledge would also be defeated ( no Haki). Current luffy, however >>crocodile

 

[VongolaX]

Crocodile was underestimating luffy in Alabasta, the number of times luffy landed a hit on him he stood thinking his intangibility would work (Like Enel).

In the cave, he wasn't able to turn into sand anymore, the water completely negated his powers.

If there was still no fluids in any situation, Luffy would die even in the marineford.

He took a Haki brilliant punk from Jozu, responded by launching him with one swing.

Impaled Akainu, clashed with Doffy a few times, and fought WB in the new world before leaving it.

Crocodile is severely underrated, Haki users are the least of his problems.

Haki doesn't negate, it's the water they made his powers useless.

It's the same as putting sea stone cuffs on him and giving him a number of rounds on him, and he still won two out of three of those rounds.


Crocodile>>>>>>>>>>Marineford luffy no water easily.

 

[bajram]

Luffy was defeated twice. Neg diffed both times. Nakama power pulled him through. You can't deny that.

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, keep in mind Crocodile didn't even use his poison during the legit fights either.

Crocodile was seemingly nerfed during the Alabasta arc anyways. Sorry, but would he really get neg diffed by an Admiral?

You must be registered for see images

, not saying that one move was especially significant, simply saying it shows Crocodile displayed a new level of strength in Marineford which he presumably had before since he was locked up all that time anyways.

Over the two year timeskip I can only presume Crocodile got stronger as he is alive and well in the New World.

Nakama power up? Dont give me that crap, the fact that a pre-gears luffy was easily able to keep up with him and was faster then crocodile tells how great crocodile is, luci easily took normal non gear punches and to beat moria luffy needed the 100 shadows power up and gear 2 & 3 combined to be able to take him down while he needed just normal punches to smack around someone like crocodile, or are u gonna ignore that.

Anyone can hit a sitting duck like that, the marineford was a big cluster**** if u take in account every little detail during the war than someone like luffy has top tier durability for being able to take on hits from Kizaru & Aokiji, will crocodile get negged? Of course he would get negged by an admiral he lacks haki to touch akainu, akainu can give crocodile a 5 minutes times to do anything and he would still do nothing, even with haki he would still have a hard time to bypass admirals intagibility, If marco and vista had a hard time to pass akainus intagibility what would akainu do? and if jinbei,ace,Ivankov,curiel all were negged what makes u think crocodile would be not negged, when he couldnt beat pre-skip luffy.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Crocodile was underestimating luffy in Alabasta, the number of times luffy landed a hit on him he stood thinking his intangibility would work (Like Enel).

In the cave, he wasn't able to turn into sand anymore, the water completely negated his powers.

If there was still no fluids in any situation, Luffy would die even in the marineford.

He took a Haki brilliant punk from Jozu, responded by launching him with one swing.

Impaled Akainu, clashed with Doffy a few times, and fought WB in the new world before leaving it.

Crocodile is severely underrated, Haki users are the least of his problems.

Haki doesn't negate, it's the water they made his powers useless.

It's the same as putting sea stone cuffs on him and giving him a number of rounds on him, and he still won two out of three of those rounds.


Crocodile>>>>>>>>>>Marineford luffy no water easily.

1. Nope, he got smacked on his ass by Jozu, and responded by having Doflamingo save him. He only blew Jozu away because Doffy rendered him immobile.

2. He impaled Akainu because Akainu reflexively transforms, being a Logia. Cannon fire took out half of Akainu's body, but isn't impressive whatsoever as a weapon, as even Bartolomeo could take them directly to the face and is walking around with a scratch now. Crocodile's sneak attack is the same. To actually do something impressive, the impalement would have had to injure Akainu.

3. Crocodile fought with WB the same way Ace fought him. And how did those fights with Ace go? WB casually oneshotted him each time. Crocodile was utterly defeated by WB while he was in the New World, nothing indicates that he did a good job whatsoever while fighting him.

 

[ultraChalk]

The ONLY way I can explains this, is that nobody at MF was fighting serious or using their full speed... Or power levels are bulshit.

 

[KGB Kakuzu]

Nakama power pulled him trough? What do u mean by that?
One time Robin saved him because she was interested in those who carry the D (Luffy in this case)
The other was just pure luck that a ball of water conveniently fell on him
I don't see nakama power here. The thing that pulled him trough is actually the fact that his endurance is abnormal. Even when he was a child he was hung on a rope and beaten to a bloody pulp but recovered extremely fast
Luffy can just take a lot of damage , that's all there is to it

Nakama power and Crocodile's arrogance were the keys to Luffy's win.

Him being saved wasn't nakama power. It was someone saving him, and then the convenience Crocodile dropped him straight down.



But his win feels a lot more like the nakama power move. On his way to Crocodile he literally passed out from blood loss. It's not like that wound magically healed. So Luffy, in a state that had him pass out from blood loss, was able to not only get the strength to get up, but go and then continue a high diff fight taking more open wounds.

Not to mention he blows through La Espada. We saw with Barchan attacks from the right hand can absorb liquids. But suddenly La Espada does nothing and he takes hit after hit.

I respect he has unbelievable endurance... but when he pulls extra endurance from nowhere (already being at the point to where he's passing out ==> his limit). That's nakama will power esque temporary power up.

Explain all the fodder then.

Also, don't forget that Luffy was defeated soundly twice. He won the last fight via luck.

Exactly. The luck that Crocodile's final attack crubped under the smallest bit of blood without cutting his arms off first.

Not to mention the power of aired is abandoned in the last exchange.

The ONLY way I can explains this, is that nobody at MF was fighting serious or using their full speed... Or power levels are bulshit.

Or Crocodile's arrogance caused Luffy to land far more blows than he would have let, and by the end just lost his shit (remember all the times he thinks about why Luffy is even bothering to fight him).

Or Luffy's physical strength hasn't truly increased as dramatically as we assume, and his greatest increase was just the Gears.

Or Crocodile's desire to go back after WB rekindled lost will power strengthening his Haki (which even Luffy had pre skip based on BB).

Or combinations of the above