[VS] Cracker vs Sanji / Zorro

[Uzumaki Macho]

All of us fanbases are a bunch of neurotic idiots that needs to remember Oda doesn't give a good goddamn about VS matches and lowkey probably does shit to benefit the sake of making an entertaining story and probably couldn't give a shit about who'd win in a fight.

Good stories usually have fairly consistent power levels. People usually lose interest in a series if the author is ignoring power levels, so Oda has keep power scaling in mind when writing fights.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

Good stories usually have fairly consistent power levels. People usually lose interest in a series if the author is ignoring power levels, so Oda has keep power scaling in mind when writing fights.

Don't read Fairy Tail cause its power levels make no damn sense.

One Piece's power scaling is actually very straight forward yet complex at the same time. A lot of OP fights are situational and when don't take those circumstances into consideration & judge the outcome that works in their favor, that is when problems occur. Fights like Sanji vs Vergo & Zoro vs Pica were situational and complex but people generalize those fights to support what they want.

 

[A v i]

Good memory for something that never happened. When have I ever made points about "Luffy is the main character?" Anwyas, its only logical for Luffy to be>Zoro no matter what he shows. Same goes for Zoro-Sanji. I only complain about the guys that go too far with Zoro's feats whenever he goes something. The guys in those posts are just ignorant & butthurt. As I said, there are also guys who wanked Zoro to no end & said he was way stronger than Luffy & can damage Fujitora. It makes no logical sense. There is a reason that Zoro's fans are the only ones known as trolls, the only fandom REASONABLY hated & being the Itachi of One Piece.

I have no reason to bring up your name out of blue; I am not sure about the main character part, But I certainly do remember you commenting in one of these threads which was made about Zoro having better feats and said something like "Luffy will I always remain stronger and all." We all know that Luffy would always be stronger than Zoro. But Zoro had better feats back then and you tried to cover for Luffy when others were questioning Luffy's superiority due to lack of feats from Luffy.

Dude, Zoro had better feats than Luffy back then, there is nothing wrong with what they said or did back then. It's you who couldn't see the light and accept the reality. What kind of a rational reader would think that Pre G4 Luffy is still superior to Zoro despite his amazing feats? You're taking the word bias to a next level while writing walls of texts about how a certain fanbase is filled with bias. The level of hypocrisy is too damn high in this one.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

I have no reason to bring up your name out of blue; I am not sure about the main character part, But I certainly do remember you commenting in one of these threads which were made about Zoro having better feats and said something like "Luffy will I always remain stronger and all." We all know that Luffy would always be stronger than Zoro. But Zoro had better feats back then and you tried to cover for Luffy when others were questioning Luffy's superiority due to lack of feats from Luffy.

Dude, Zoro had better feats than Luffy back then, there is nothing wrong with what they said or did back then. It's you who couldn't see the light and accept the reality. What kind of a rational reader would think that Pre G4 Luffy is still superior to Zoro despite his amazing feats? You're taking the word bias to a next level while writing walls of texts about how a certain fanbase is filled with bias. The level of hypocrisy is too damn high in this one.

Its very easy to put words in someones mouth. G4 was shown Spring 2015 so are you clinging to something I supposedly posted that long ago?

-Someone who disagrees with you is just bias & cant see the light
-Believes that Zoro>Luffy is a fact and uses his own assumptions & beliefs to call others hypocrites.

 

[A v i]

Its very easy to put words in someones mouth. G4 was shown Spring 2015 so are you clinging to something I supposedly posted that long ago?

-Someone who disagrees with is just bias & cant see the light
-Believes that Zoro>Luffy is a fact and uses his own assumptions & beliefs to call others hypocrites.

The person who's been calling people biased left and right for disagreeing with his beliefs would be you. Go back and look at your own posts. Zoro had better feats than Luffy back then, any logical reader would question his superiority. Even haters admitted that he had better feats than Luffy back then. I've never said Zoro is superior to Luffy, not even back when he had better feats. Because I know that Luffy must and will always be stronger than Zoro. But It's irrefutable that Zoro with current feats is clearly above pre G4 Luffy. You're the who's been coming up with ridiculous assumptions in order to downplay Zoro so that you can put even Pre G4 Luffy above Zoro which is sad.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

The person who's been calling people biased left and right for disagreeing with his beliefs would be you. Go back and look at your own posts. Zoro had better feats than Luffy back then, any logical reader would question his superiority. Even haters admitted that he had better feats than Luffy back then. I've never said Zoro is superior to Luffy, not even back when he had better feats. Because I know that Luffy must and will always be stronger than Zoro. But It's irrefutable that Zoro with current feats is clearly above pre G4 Luffy. You're the who's been coming up with ridiculous assumptions in order to downplay Zoro so that you can put even Pre G4 Luffy above Zoro which is sad.

I never once call anyone bias in this debate. Are you talking about when I said people are downplaying Sanji & overrating Zoro as a response to people claiming I was just trying to downplay Zoro cause I supposedly didn't like him?

So its just about feats and not overall strength? Cause it appears to me that everyone is using Zoro's feats to say he is stronger than Luffy overall.

1. Zoro always had more attack power than Luffy(aside from Enies Lobby to end of Part 1).
2. Despite Zoro having more attack power, to the point were Axe Hand Morgan could take 3 of Luffy's punches but gets one shotted by Zoro, they were dead even in Whiskey Peak(just an example).
3. 1080 Pound Cannon, a move that others use to say he can harm Fujitora or Luffy can't compete with, couldn't take out Haki-less Pica and we saw how long Pica fought afterwards.
4. Danzen Sekai is the only that is guaranteed stronger than anyone G3 move but attack power doesn't mean someone is stronger overall.

Please bring up these "ridiculous assumptions."

EDIT: Since we are apparently clinging to feats & assumptions to call others bias, bring up some speed feats of Zoro. He hasn't shown anything Post-TS that he can handle speed like G2. Opponents like Base Hody, Hyouzou, Monet & Pica aren't fast. If you say Zoro can keep with that, then that is a "ridiculous assumption" and shows your hypocrisy. Just sayin'......

 

[A v i]

I never once call anyone bias in this debate. Are you talking about when I said people are downplaying Sanji & overrating Zoro as a response to people claiming I was just trying to downplay Zoro cause I supposedly didn't like him?

So its just about feats and not overall strength? Cause it appears to me that everyone is using Zoro's feats to say he is stronger than Luffy overall.

1. Zoro always had more attack power than Luffy(aside from Enies Lobby to end of Part 1).
2. Despite Zoro having more attack power, to the point were Axe Hand Morgan could take 3 of Luffy's punches but gets one shotted by Zoro, they were dead even in Whiskey Peak(just an example).
3. 1080 Pound Cannon, a move that others use to say he can harm Fujitora or Luffy can't compete with, couldn't take out Haki-less Pica and we saw how long Pica fought afterwards.
4. Danzen Sekai is the only that is guaranteed stronger than anyone G3 move but attack power doesn't mean someone is stronger overall.

Please bring up these "ridiculous assumptions."

EDIT: Since we are apparently clinging to feats & assumptions to call others bias, bring up some speed feats of Zoro. He hasn't shown anything Post-TS that he can handle speed like G2. Opponents like Base Hody, Hyouzou, Monet & Pica aren't fast. If you say Zoro can keep with that, then that is a "ridiculous assumption" and shows your hypocrisy. Just sayin'......

I stopped reading the post at the bolded part; Clearly, you're mistaking Zoro being superior to Pre G4 Luffy with him being overall superior to Luffy. Almost no one except for a few cynics would believe such a thing. I am not sure why you find it that hard to accept that Zoro can be stronger than like less than half of Luffy's over all strength.

1. Zoro always had more attack power than Luffy(aside from Enies Lobby to end of Part 1).
2. Despite Zoro having more attack power, to the point were Axe Hand Morgan could take 3 of Luffy's punches but gets one shotted by Zoro, they were dead even in Whiskey Peak(just an example).

The attack which Zoro used was stronger than Luffy's attacks. Zoro apparently used Onigiri when all Luffy used was his base attacks. What Zoro had over Luffy wasn't better attack power but lethality.

3. 1080 Pound Cannon, a move that others use to say he can harm Fujitora or Luffy can't compete with, couldn't take out Haki-less Pica and we saw how long Pica fought afterwards.

Let's not ignore the fact that the attack had to get past a city sized statue before finally hitting Pica. The notion that it could harm Fujitora is a joke at best IMO.

4. Danzen Sekai is the only that is guaranteed stronger than anyone G3 move but attack power doesn't mean someone is stronger overall.

Attack power isn't all Zoro had over Luffy. He's well equipped to tag him with the attack. His chances of hitting way higher than G3 hitting Zoro.

Please bring up these "ridiculous assumptions."

Read your comments in this post.

EDIT: Since we are apparently clinging to feats & assumptions to call others bias, bring up some speed feats of Zoro. He hasn't shown anything Posht-TS that he can handle speed like G2. Opponents like Base Hody, Hyouzou, Monet & Pica aren't fast. If you say Zoro can keep with that, then that is a "ridiculous assumption" and sows your hypocrisy. Just sayin'......

Apparently, destroying a mountain sized golem and defeating Pica all while the statue is still afloat doesn't look fast to you. A fodder like Hyouzou reacted to G2, you're kidding yourself if you seriously think someone who's far above him couldn't do it.

 

[Hexuze]

Lmfao, taking ss of posts from different threads & forums(?) and bringing up months old posts? This is an all time low.

 

[A v i]

How salty. :yeah:

 

[Vandenre1ch]

I stopped reading the post at the bolded part; Clearly, you're mistaking Zoro being superior to Pre G4 Luffy with him being overall superior to Luffy. Almost no one except for a few cynics would believe such a thing. I am not sure why you find it that hard to accept that Zoro can be stronger than like less than half of Luffy's over all strength.



The attack which Zoro used was stronger than Luffy's attacks. Zoro apparently used Onigiri when all Luffy used was his base attacks. What Zoro had over Luffy wasn't better attack power but lethality.


Let's not ignore the fact that the attack had to get past a city sized statue before finally hitting Pica. The notion that it could harm Fujitora is a joke at best IMO.

4. Danzen Sekai is the only that is guaranteed stronger than anyone G3 move but attack power doesn't mean someone is stronger overall.

Attack power isn't all Zoro had over Luffy. He's well equipped to tag him with the attack. His chances of hitting way higher than G3 hitting Zoro.





Read your comments in this post.



Apparently, destroying a mountain sized golem and defeating Pica all while the statue is still afloat doesn't look fast to you. A fodder like Hyouzou reacted to G2, you're kidding yourself if you seriously think someone who's far above him couldn't do it.

1. You said you stopped reading after the bolded but apparently you read everything.....

2. You seriously need to simplify the things you complain about. G2/G3 Luffy>Zoro. Zoro has qualities that are better than Luffy & vice versa. Don't know how I can simplify this even further.....

3. Lethality.....which still makes Zoro's attacks better for the most part right? Oda even said that Luffy & Zoro were equal in combat power(but that was why back in Water 7). We are pretty much saying that same thing but coming to an opposite conclusion but you condemn me for the results I come to.

4. G2/G3 Luffy>Zoro overall. That is what I was saying but I get called bias and a hypocrite by someone with an opposite opinion. You're the one who could be bias and I don't have to relay on "your bias!" claims for counter arguments.

5. The part of the golem that was cut wasn't city sized and the slash hit Pica clean & did minor damage at best as he continued fighting as if nothing happened. Its like Chinjao getting hit by G2 hawk rifle, coughing blood & shaking it off as if nothing happened. That is quite the big assumption thinking Pica would get one shotted by 1080 Pound Cannon when it did such minor damage to him before.

6. The part was using your logic. I want feats only and anything else is just you being bias & spouting ridiculous assumptions. Zoro destroying a stone statue is the air says nothing about him being able to keep with up G2. Hyouzo reacted to G2 and we have yet to see Zoro react to a move that fast...again I'm just using your logic and because of that, portrayal or anything I don't like doesn't count. Agree with me or else you are dumb & bias. Once more, I'm just using your logic.

 

[A v i]

1. You said you stopped reading after the bolded but apparently you read everything.....

I quoted that particular part at first then answered the remaining quote later and merged both; Look at the time difference b/w last edit and the time of post.

2. You seriously need to simplify the things you complain about. G2/G3 Luffy>Zoro. Zoro has qualities that are better than Luffy & vice versa. Don't know how I can simplify this even further.

I wonder if you ever bother reading my posts properly. What I've been complaining about is the fact that you put Pre G4 Luffy above Zoro. And I always made sure to put the notion " Pre G4" to avoid any confusion in the debate. So if anything, you were the one who was being unclear. Except for speed which by no means is enough to put pre G4 Luffy over Zoro, Pre G4 Luffy had nothing on Zoro. Zoro is clearly superior.




3. Lethality.....which still makes Zoro's attacks better for the most part right? Oda even said that Luffy & Zoro were equal in combat power(but that was why back in Water 7). We are pretty much saying that same thing but coming to an opposite conclusion but you condemn me for the results I come to.

I am not sure if I understand your stance here? Are you perhaps trying imply that power is the only thing that Zoro has over Luffy?

4. G2/G3 Luffy>Zoro overall. That is what I was saying but I get called bias and a hypocrite by someone with an opposite opinion. You're the one who could be bias and I don't have to relay on "your bias!" claims for counter arguments.

Well, that's what makes you biased here. He has far better attack power, more endurance, same level of reactions and reflexes. Zoro is certainly different from those with power alone. He doesn't lose speed to use his high end moves, unlike Luffy who'll become completely vulnerable in G3. I seriously have no idea how you could still consider Luffy superior.

5. The part of the golem that was cut wasn't city sized and the slash hit Pica clean & did minor damage at best as he continued fighting as if nothing happened. Its like Chinjao getting hit by G2 hawk rifle, coughing blood & shaking it off as if nothing happened. That is quite the big assumption thinking Pica would get one shotted by 1080 Pound Cannon when it did such minor damage to him before.

It doesn't matter if it wasn't as big as a city. What matters here is the fact that it wasn't a direct hit. Zoro had to get past huge volume of rock in order to reach him. Hell, we don't even know if Zoro's aim was to hit his main body. You're supposed to make such a comparison when the attack was a clean hit.

6. The part was using your logic. I want feats only and anything else is just you being bias & spouting ridiculous assumptions. Zoro destroying a stone statue is the air says nothing about him being able to keep with up G2. Hyouzo reacted to G2 and we have yet to see Zoro react to a move that fast...again I'm just using your logic and because of that, portrayal or anything I don't like doesn't count. Agree with me or else you are dumb & bias. Once more, I'm just using your logic.

Zoro doing what he did in such a short amount time should be taken as the testament of his quickness and speed. Dude, Are you serious with this one? Zoro is superior to Hyozou, far superior in every possible department. There is noway he wouldn't be able to react to Luffy. Where does this only feats talk came from? When I said Zoro looked superior to Luffy; I took all aspects into consideration. It was their overall display til that point. There wasn't a single thing (except for the fact that he is the main character) before chapter 777 that'd make Luffy look overall superior to Zoro. Even now, there isn't a single aspect about Pre G4 Luffy that'd make any rational reader believe that he is over all superior to Zoro.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

I quoted that particular part at first then answered the remaining quote later and merged both; Look at the time difference b/w last edit and the time of post.



I wonder if you ever bother reading my posts properly. What I've been complaining about is the fact that you put Pre G4 Luffy above Zoro. And I always made sure to put the notion " Pre G4" to avoid any confusion in the debate. So if anything, you were the one who was being unclear. Except for speed which by no means is enough to put pre G4 Luffy over Zoro, Pre G4 Luffy had nothing on Zoro. Zoro is clearly superior.




3. Lethality.....which still makes Zoro's attacks better for the most part right? Oda even said that Luffy & Zoro were equal in combat power(but that was why back in Water 7). We are pretty much saying that same thing but coming to an opposite conclusion but you condemn me for the results I come to.

I am not sure if I understand your stance here? Are you perhaps trying imply that power is the only thing that Zoro has over Luffy?


Well, that's what makes you biased here. He has far better attack power, more endurance, same level of reactions and reflexes. Zoro is certainly different from those with power alone. He doesn't lose speed to use his high end moves, unlike Luffy who'll become completely vulnerable in G3. I seriously have no idea how you could still consider Luffy superior.



It doesn't matter if it wasn't as big as a city. What matters here is the fact that it wasn't a direct hit. Zoro had to get past huge volume of rock in order to reach him. Hell, we don't even know if Zoro's aim was to hit his main body. You're supposed to make such a comparison when the attack was a clean hit.




Zoro doing what he did in such a short amount time should be taken as the testament of his quickness and speed. Dude, Are you serious with this one? Zoro is superior to Hyozou, far superior in every possible department. There is noway he wouldn't be able to react to Luffy. Where does this only feats talk came from? When I said Zoro looked superior to Luffy; I took all aspects into consideration. It was their overall display til that point. There wasn't a single thing (except for the fact that he is the main character) before chapter 777 that'd make Luffy look overall superior to Zoro. Even now, there isn't a single aspect about Pre G4 Luffy that'd make any rational reader believe that he is over all superior to Zoro.

You see that is the problem. You claim something that is completely debatable as obvious fact and use that to call others bias and question their intelligence.

-Zoro always has been more lethal & attacks more destructive & flashy. Did that put Zoro above Luffy pre-TS
-Zoro has always been more enduring & Luffy more durable but did that put Zoro above Luffy pre-TS?
-Zoro has always struggled against people who are more mobile, faster and/or versatile. Before you call BS without thinking, Daz Bones, Brahmin, Ohm, Kaku, Ryuma, Pica.
-We never seen Zoro fight people like Luffy or only seen him cut stone
-Stone is something Zoro could cut clean even Pre-TS. It offers no resistance because of how strong Zoro's slashes are. Ryuma & Zoro was cutting through stone buildings clean & their slashes didn't lose any power. Pica was hit clean & likely hit his abdominal area as he coughed blood. Again, it couldn't even take him out.
-Luffy also has gear stacking which increases the speed of G3.
-Zoro took a no name gravity attack from a casual Fujitora and was on one knee, breathing heavily & coughing blood. Zoro's counter slash was able to push Fujitora back but he blocked it no problem. Luffy took a Gravitou: Mukou from an angry Fujitora and only got a bunch of bruises. Luffy's G3 punch pushed Fujitora back but he blocked it no problem.

By no means is Zoro obviously superior Luffy and I seriously question you for saying that Zoro being stronger than G2/G3 Luffy is obvious. Its completely debatable and makes you yourself appear bias.

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

Why is it VS threads on one piece all end up over ten pages long, and arguing over two characters not specified in the original thread?