[VS] Cracker>Doflamingo

[Lawlermelon]

Kuzan created the same amount of ice on their bodies. However, he only created enough ice to freeze Jozu, while the ice he created against Dofi spread all across the platform they were on and into the sea, indicating it was a grander version of the same technique that froze Jozu.

Quantity =/= Quality and its only an assumption. There is no proof that the attack it stronger just because there is more ice.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Quantity =/= Quality and its only an assumption. There is no proof that the attack it stronger just because there is more ice.

The assumption is what's most likely with the info given.

 

[Relostar Devil]

Luffy may not have been significantly injured, true.. but the amount of haki and energy he already wasted would be full at 100%... leading his Gear 4th to last longer, hence that last attack he needed to defeat Doflamingo would be landed, if not more attacks as well..

It would be Doflamingo on the ground unable to move at the end bro.

Doffy survived first G4 shows that he is powerful enough to solo luffy, unlike luffy, doffy was fighting law and fujitora where luffy just fought at colloseum and had plenty of time to rest and regain energy. Doffy is stronger than luffy, i would say if he was not shichibukai than he would be obviously top commanders of younkou!!!

 

[LBeezy]

DD would win a 1v1 with luffy all out so....

No. Luffy would win.

Correction: DID win.

Doffy survived first G4 shows that he is powerful enough to solo luffy, unlike luffy, doffy was fighting law and fujitora where luffy just fought at colloseum and had plenty of time to rest and regain energy. Doffy is stronger than luffy, i would say if he was not shichibukai than he would be obviously top commanders of younkou!!!

Nope. If Luffy was at 100% full health and stamina/Haki Doffy wouldn't have survived the first G4 onslaught, because Luffy would've been able to land his KKG during that first G4.. Therefore beating Doflamingo sooner..

 

[Bogard]

If the spoilers are correct, RIP Doflamingo wank :bouncy:

 

[A v i]

This doesn't justify Jozu choosing to stand there and is a very poor excuse. Doflamingo is only there to fight against Whitebeard for the World Government, as he's a Shichibukai, and Crocodile has already made it clear he's here to kill Whitebeard. Jozu needs for them to officially declare they're teaming up before he decides they need to be eliminated? I guess that's why he DIDN'T attack Crocodile when he saw an opening. Oh wait..

Think about what you are saying. The Shichibukai who is there to prevent Whitebeard from succeeding is restraining him, and is asking the man who tried to attack Whitebeard to team up with him, and Jozu CHOOSES to NOT resist as his friends engage in war around him, where many of them are dying. THAT makes sense to you? You rather go with THAT over Jozu just being unable to break out?

Yeah, I can totally see Jozu’s struggle and his concern for crew-mates in his face. He was actually crying about how he’s not able to save a single soul and cursing his inability to break free. :yeah: Whether it was justifiable or not is not for you or me to decide. The fact is, Jozu displayed no sings of struggle to break free unlike any other who were controlled or immobilized by Joker thus far. Therefore, you can't downright decide that it was because he couldn't break free when he didn't made any visible attempts at getting out of it.

The shichibukai never made WB their sole target unlike Crocodile, The story would have been a lot different had they joined forces and decided to take down Whitebeard. DD might have shared intel with Crocodile, then they might have devised a plan which would certainly work and killed Whitebeard when the time comes akin to BB and others. Jozu isn't some kind of savior of the war, they're all prepared to die fight for Ace; wasting a minute or two to collect intel isn't going to change much. There were times when the main fighters of each side stood there without doing anything, and you talk as if it is impractical for a character to waste time in the middle of a war??! It's not really as Black and White as you're making it out to be.


I would've conceded with what you've said, had there been any visible sings of struggle or concern for loosing his comrades from Jozu. But there weren't any to began with, He was completely calm and didn't even give a flying rats ass about the fact that he was immobilized. I can agree that that particular scene in the manga put DD in a better light than Jozu from portrayal stand point. But it is nowhere near good enough to establish DD as the superior of the two.

"Blocking an attack from Mihawk"Which may rival or even superior to G4 attacks" without so much as a dent and not receiving a dent from fighting an admiral until when he was distracted" are still way better feats than immobilizing Jozu and breaking out of Aokoiji's ice which wasn't, apparently, aimed to kill him or meant to completely freeze him to the bone.

He did that because he was freezing a group of people and needed to freeze the transponder snails as well.

His aim was to stop Snail transmitter and the person holding it which happened to be Buggy. He aimed for Buggy and the attacks byproduct ended up freezing his men. Not to mention, The attack Aokiji used to contain Whitebeard(Forgot it's name) had far lesser impact on the surroundings than the one used on Joker. Aokiji had to directly touch Jozu and indirectly made a contact with Whitebeard via ice in order to freeze them. Where as, he simply had his hands in his pockets and used surroundings as a medium to deliver the attack on Joker, which is why it ended up spreading all over the place. It wasn't necessarily a stronger attack. Aokiji in fact, didn't seem to have any intention of fighting or defeating Joker.

If the spoilers are correct, RIP Doflamingo wank :bouncy:

People seem to think Luffy is half as strong as Mingo or something. So, even if Cracker is stronger than Doflamingo, and if he'll get beaten by Luffy, the Doflamingo faction will do everything in their power to establish Joker to be the superior fighter as they believe that Luffy is still the same as how he was at Dressrossa.

 

[MasqueradeNX]

No. Luffy would win.

Correction: DID win.




Nope. If Luffy was at 100% full health and stamina/Haki Doffy wouldn't have survived the first G4 onslaught, because Luffy would've been able to land his KKG during that first G4.. Therefore beating Doflamingo sooner..

Nope he didnt win a 1v1. Luffy had help from many people. He won because of plot. Luffy was very strong in G4 and yes was stronger then DD but that meant nothing. DD still was coming after luffy after G4 and could of ended him if it wasnt for the others. Dont even mention Law, If it was a 1v1 hands down luffy would loose at that that point in time. DD just has the stamina and could out last Luffy.

So what you said about about luffy winning solo is completely invalid. And he didnt.

 

[Punk Hazard]

If the spoilers are correct, RIP Doflamingo wank :bouncy:

How exactly do those spoilers hurt Doflamingo? From what it sounds, Kong Gun will push Cracker back just like it did Dofy. That'd put them in the same position.

 

[A v i]

^^^Yes, the info in the spoilers doesn't really change anything.

 

[LBeezy]

Nope he didnt win a 1v1. Luffy had help from many people. He won because of plot. Luffy was very strong in G4 and yes was stronger then DD but that meant nothing. DD still was coming after luffy after G4 and could of ended him if it wasnt for the others. Dont even mention Law, If it was a 1v1 hands down luffy would loose at that that point in time. DD just has the stamina and could out last Luffy.

So what you said about about luffy winning solo is completely invalid. And he didnt.

I've already gone through this in earlier posts of this thread..

I'm sorry dude.. Luffy > Doflamingo. That's just how it is..

Please do not be mad at me.. for I am not Oda..

 

[Punk Hazard]

When Gear Fourth ends with Luffy on his feet and Doffy unconscious with just the two of them, then Luffy>Doffy.

 

[Bogard]

^^^Yes, the info in the spoilers doesn't really change anything.

Doflamingo was sent flying by a hawk bazooka through his hardening guard and he ran away from a hawk gatling when Cracker could firmly block the hawk gatling and even an elephant gun with a hardening defense made of cookies and overwhelms Luffy in the process all that unscrathed and it requires a kong gun(an attack that helped Doflamingo to see stars for few seconds even while blocking) just to break through his cookies' defense, and all that while using a basic stance.

He is also known as "thousand arms" Cracker something he wasn't even close at using yet. From this alone, we can estimate that he is superior to Doflamingo. And if Luffy is already that pushed when Cracker has yet to fight in the stance his nickname comes from, he has a high chance to even be able to effectively combat g4 if not overwhelm him in next chapter, putting him a tier stronger than Doflamingo in the process

 

[Punk Hazard]

Doflamingo was sent flying by a hawk bazooka through his hardening guard and he ran away from a hawk gatling when Cracker could firmly block the hawk gatling and even an elephant gun with a hardening defense made of cookies and overwhelms Luffy in the process all that unscrathed and it requires a kong gun(an attack that helped Doflamingo to see stars for few seconds even while blocking) just to break through his cookies' defense, and all that while using a basic stance.

Cracker has better feats than a Doflamingo who's been pushed close to death? Why, case closed. I suppose he's also better than Fujitora, right?

 

[OG sama]

I just read the spoilers...

It seems like Oda wants us to believe Cracker is at least Doflamingo level.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I just read the spoilers...

It seems like Oda wants us to believe Cracker is at least Doflamingo level.

That's what it's looking like so far

 

[OG sama]

That's what it's looking like so far

Honestly its going to be hard as hell to determine who could be stronger, on one hand, DD was injured but to some unknown extent so was Luffy.

Now he's 100% fresh and he just knocked back someone with the same move he knocked DD back with.

 

[A v i]

Doflamingo was sent flying by a hawk bazooka through his hardening guard and he ran away from a hawk gatling when Cracker could firmly block the hawk gatling and even an elephant gun with a hardening defense made of cookies and overwhelms Luffy in the process all that unscrathed and it requires a kong gun(an attack that helped Doflamingo to see stars for few seconds even while blocking) just to break through his cookies' defense, and all that while using a basic stance.

He is also known as "thousand arms" Cracker something he wasn't even close at using yet. From this alone, we can estimate that he is superior to Doflamingo. And if Luffy is already that pushed when Cracker has yet to fight in the stance his nickname comes from, he has a high chance to even be able to effectively combat g4 if not overwhelm him in next chapter, putting him a tier stronger than Doflamingo in the process

The spoilers at best conforms that Cracker's haki and physical strength are superior to Joker. Cracker seems to be a physical fighter(those whose fighting style revolves around their own physical prowess) much like Luffy/Zoro/Jack. In which case, him having such a monstrous strength is to be expected. Joker is never a physical fighter to began with, his main offence revolves around his devils fruit. So, It's not surprising that his haki and physical strength looks inferior.

Cracker has better feats than a Doflamingo who's been pushed close to death? W

Won't you ever stop over-exaggerating this shit?

 

[-Akuma-]

See the thing is the yeti did sneak attack

As for the yeti taking out zoro again that's his fault he knew he was on enemy territory etc it makes common sense to be alert etc... If e wasn't again that is his fault same with Jozu ur in middle of war common sense is to be on look out while your fighting so u don't get stabbed in the back or in Jozu case get used as furniture ...

But doffy legitimately had a conversation while using Jozu as a foot stool unless ur saying he was interested in the two pirates alliance why would he stay there .... Majority of doffy attacks with his strings could be considered sneak attacks if u don't look for them take Sanji for example he was too busy attacking to realize doffy moving his fingers which then caught him in the strings ...


I'm not saying doffy is def stronger then Jozu (I believe he is but that is my own opinion ) but due to Portryal and his feats and how important he was to the new world etc he can def contend with and be a yonko' first mate easily

Jozu being silly for having his guard down doesn't change my point at all. He probabky shouldn't of been taken off guard but he was, that is my point. Jozu wasn't able to break out of parasite when caught but that's not the point he'd probably would have never gotten caught in the first place if on guard. While most of Doffy's move aren't sneak attacks there has just been some situations where he catches him for off guard. Doffy isn't competeing with the like sof Marco LOL.

 

[-Akuma-]

Even if it was a sneak attack, once Jozu was caught he was unable to escape. Even if the didn't expect the strings coming, he still had more than enough time to break free on his own, but at the end of the day he did not. Luffy was caught unexpectedly by Jozu's string as well, but he managed to get out. Jozu couldn't figure out a way?

There is also the fact that Dofi broke a stronger version of the ice that Aokiji took out Jozu with, and both were caught in the ice while not paying attention to Aokiji.

That's irrelevant seeing how Jozu most likely wouldn't get caught in the first place. Luffy got out of parisite due to the expansion of his body, not raw physical strength.

The move Kuzan used on DD wasn't stronger than the one use on Jozu

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

@Riker Jozu did break free from Parasite off screen after Croc used his sandstorm attack.