[Discussion] Could God ever forgive Satan?

[Punk Hazard]

Interference would be taking away free will.

So the free will of a child-raping murderer is more important to God than the lives and happiness of those he makes suffer? What a swell guy!

 

[The Work]

Here are some Bible verses that suggest that God would possibly be bound by his word to forgive whomever, even Lucifer, were a change of heart were to happen. There are, of course, requirements to being forgiven. For instance: forgiving others, confessing or acknowledging your sins, asking for His salvation etc.

> Ephesians 1:7: In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace

> Hebrews 10:17: Then he adds: “Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.”

> Daniel 9:9: The Lord our God is merciful and forgiving, even though we have rebelled against him.

> Colossian 1:13-14: For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

> Psalm 103:12: as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.

> Numbers 14:19-21: In accordance with your great love, forgive the sin of these people, just as you have pardoned them from the time they left Egypt until now.” 20 The LORD replied, “I have forgiven them, as you asked. 21 Nevertheless, as surely as I live and as surely as the glory of the LORD fills the whole earth.

Wouldn't you say his morality would guide his decision since he is in fact a moral God?

That is, assuming Lucifer came to some character change.

This is all true, but you missed my main point.

Lucifer was an angel of God. He was in heaven with God. He knew what God hated. (Sin)

Yet, he still chose to rebel against God. He started sin on the planet by tempting Adam & Eve.

He literally blasphemes God. Blasphemy is unforgivable.

 

[shelke]

I am pretty sure Satan knew his eternal damnation. He was the most gifted angel. Furthermore, the creator tends to define the rules. That is how it goes in this game where he's, basically, the game master. In order to play the game, you abide by the rule. The punishment is devised by the master. Whether it's unfair or evil is subjective.

[h=1]“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”[/h]
Plus if he is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent he knew that adam & eve would steal the apple off the tree and plus adam and eve didnt have a moral compass to base whether their decision was a test or not

All of those are human gauges. You believe God and transcendental beings exhibit and feel emotions and the concepts of good and evil like humanity does? To God, the absolute creator, Evil would be what he defines not what humanity does.

 

[Our Lord Sasuke]

Damn boy, religion threads are so funny XDXD

 

[HENI]

Damn boy, religion threads are so funny XDXD

Religious topics are the best discussions

 

[Tantalus Thief]

Interference would be taking away free will.

That didn't stop him in the Bible tho.

 

[kimb]

Reading through this thread reminds me how much of an abhorrent **** the Abrahamic God is.

i love me some retarded atheists
"religous people are dumb and believe in a book some random dude wrote!!"

too bad you guys ain't smart either beleving in stupid science books that some random people wrote who can't proof jack shit, but still claim their false shit as "facts" lol

Where religious text contains information that must be taken on faith, scientific text contains information and observations that can be tested, replicated, and demonstrated outside in reality, therefore being infallible. I don’t know how you can use religious text as a reliable source of information when most of its “facts” have been disproven.

You realize the concept of "life" gave way to our existence? In a way, it became non-abstract based on the fact it pursued the existence of the living.

Sin is a concept with no ends meat. It begat nothing physical. It's just a derivative of us being disobedient.. something I've stated countless times now.

"That's like saying if humans all committed suicide right now, then God didn't really create human life since humans need to sustain themselves for it to exist"

Lolwut
This analogy is a total fail. Unlike sin that gets its pathway from our actions, life directly came from God. Meaning, it's not a derivative of anything. Even if we commit suicide, we aren't actually creating life. Life is not a derivative of our existence, conversely our existence is derivative of life. This can be justified with reasons that God cannot actually alter our existence or the way we live. He gave us the agency to form our own path.

Now you seem unwavering towards your notion, and I'll rather not try and pursue a lost cause. So here's a suitable article to enlighten you on why God didn't create sin.

You must be registered for see links

Who defines sin?

All of those are human gauges. You believe God and transcendental beings exhibit and feel emotions and the concepts of good and evil like humanity does? To God, the absolute creator, Evil would be what he defines not what humanity does.

Honestly depends on the God you're talking about. If we're talking about the Abrahamic God of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, yes.

God has shown anger and displayed his furious wraith against humanity several times by drowning them, burning them to death, using plagues to wipe out entire nations, and having them eaten alive by lions, he's shown love in the Bible by sacrificing his Son to save humanity (lmao), the bible stating "God so loved the world", it's stated in all three religious books (Torah, Bible, Quaran) that God is a "jealous" God, only wanting worship and praise for himself and is willing to send you to eternal damnation should you not comply (pretty petty if you ask me), but I think the most evident claim that proves God has emotions is that "he created man in his own image and likeness", meaning our behaviors, thought processes, and emotions (some not all) derive directly from him.

 

[Inmate]

Damn boy, religion threads are so funny XDXD

What's so funny about them specifically?

 

[Punk Hazard]

Reading through this thread reminds me how much of an abhorrent **** the Abrahamic God is.



Where religious text contains information that must be taken on faith, scientific text contains information and observations that can be tested, replicated, and demonstrated outside in reality, therefore being infallible. I don’t know how you can use religious text as a reliable source of information when most of its “facts” have been disproven.


Who defines sin?

Honestly depends on the God you're talking about. If we're talking about the Abrahamic God of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, yes.

God has shown anger and displayed his furious wraith against humanity several times by drowning them, burning them to death, using plagues to wipe out entire nations, and having them eaten alive by lions, he's shown love in the Bible by sacrificing his Son to save humanity (lmao), the bible stating "God so loved the world", it's stated in all three religious books (Torah, Bible, Quaran) that God is a "jealous" God, only wanting worship and praise for himself and is willing to send you to eternal damnation should you not comply (pretty petty if you ask me), but I think the most evident claim that proves God has emotions is that "he created man in his own image and likeness", meaning our behaviors, thought processes, and emotions (some not all) derive directly from him.

Bingo. Not to mention most of what we define as evil is also what God defines as evil according to the account of religious text. It's truly ridiculous that people say we can guage God by human emotions and morals when, according to religious folk, that's where we get them from.

 

[Inmate]

Reading through this thread reminds me how much of an abhorrent **** the Abrahamic God is.



Where religious text contains information that must be taken on faith, scientific text contains information and observations that can be tested, replicated, and demonstrated outside in reality, therefore being infallible. I don’t know how you can use religious text as a reliable source of information when most of its “facts” have been disproven.


Who defines sin?

Honestly depends on the God you're talking about. If we're talking about the Abrahamic God of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, yes.

God has shown anger and displayed his furious wraith against humanity several times by drowning them, burning them to death, using plagues to wipe out entire nations, and having them eaten alive by lions, he's shown love in the Bible by sacrificing his Son to save humanity (lmao), the bible stating "God so loved the world", it's stated in all three religious books (Torah, Bible, Quaran) that God is a "jealous" God, only wanting worship and praise for himself and is willing to send you to eternal damnation should you not comply (pretty petty if you ask me), but I think the most evident claim that proves God has emotions is that "he created man in his own image and likeness", meaning our behaviors, thought processes, and emotions (some not all) derive directly from him.

I'll put this in a simple and coherent manner for your comprehension:

> Your claim is false

> Why: God really did create human beings in his own image, but that doesn't mean everything humans do now are a direct reflection of who he is.

> Why I say this: Satan was the one who introduced the concept of sin. If it wasn't for Satan slythering into their minds and manipulating them to think God was depriving them of privileges and whatnot, they wouldn't have known or carried sin. It's all on account of their eating from the tree from which they were blatantly forbidden to eat.

> It's therefore logical to say, our carnality isn't exactly God's fault. Maybe indirectly, since Satan is his creation, but definitely not directly.

> He didn't create man with sin in mind,

> and he definitely wasn't the one who betrayed one simple commandment that a toddler probably could have done better obeying.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I'll put this in a simple and coherent manner for your comprehension:

> Your claim is false

> Why: God really did create human beings in his own image, but that doesn't mean everything humans do now are a direct reflection of who he is.

> Why I say this: Satan was the one who introduced the concept of sin. If it wasn't for Satan slythering into their minds and manipulating them to think God was depriving them of privileges and whatnot, they wouldn't have known or carried sin. It's all on account of their eating from the tree from which they were blatantly forbidden to eat.

> It's therefore logical to say, our carnality isn't exactly God's fault. Maybe indirectly, since Satan is his creation, but definitely not directly.

> He didn't create man with sin in mind,

> and he definitely wasn't the one who betrayed one simple commandment that a toddler probably could have done better obeying.

"Oh Chuck didn't rape you, he just let Tom rape you and purposefully did nothing to stop it despite knowing it was gonna happen, so you can't blame him."

 

[Inmate]

"Oh Chuck didn't rape you, he just let Tom rape you and purposefully did nothing to stop it despite knowing it was gonna happen, so you can't blame him."

Lol, when you put it that way...

Edit: We are just humans, though. We can't possibly come up with reasons for everything. Even if we do, the likeliness of being correct against a superior being's judgement is quite slim.

 

[HENI]

Lol, when you put it that way...

Edit: We are just humans, though. We can't possibly come up with reasons for everything. Even if we do, the likeliness of being correct against a superior being's judgement is quite slim.

YHWH will kneel down before Lord Be'elzebub, and all of his people, including Jews, Christians, and Muslims will be slaughtered by Lord Be'elzebub's godly wrath.

 

[Inmate]

YHWH will kneel down before Lord Be'elzebub, and all of his people, including Jews, Christians, and Muslims will be slaughtered by Lord Be'elzebub's godly wrath.

I think we have strayed too far away from the topic at hand.

You can make your own thread, if you really want to express your opinions on religion in general.

 

[shelke]

Honestly depends on the God you're talking about. If we're talking about the Abrahamic God of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, yes.

God has shown anger and displayed his furious wrath against humanity several times by drowning them, burning them to death, using plagues to wipe out entire nations, and having them eaten alive by lions, he's shown love in the Bible by sacrificing his Son to save humanity (lmao), the bible stating "God so loved the world", it's stated in all three religious books (Torah, Bible, Quaran) that God is a "jealous" God, only wanting worship and praise for himself and is willing to send you to eternal damnation should you not comply (pretty petty if you ask me), but I think the most evident claim that proves God has emotions is that "he created man in his own image and likeness", meaning our behaviors, thought processes, and emotions (some not all) derive directly from him.

Anger as in human anger? Wrath as in human wrath? All of these cannot be gauged by human parameters as you are not talking of a human entity. There are gradations to things.

It isn't petty at all. Imagine yourself to be a creator of anything; don't you set all the rules for the said creation? Creating in one's own image doesn't mean that humanity as a whole isn't more than an insignificant race that dies out after an insignificant time and is insignificant in its role even within its immediate world (if considered individually), let alone the grand scheme of things.

God (in the orthodox religions) is omnipotent. If you take the image aspect that literally, then why are none of us omnipotent, or at the very least, beings with some significance? Why aren't we, then? Ah, no. Thought process? Really? What are you talking about? An Omniscient entity's thought processes (you cannot even call it that) would be like ours? Behaviour? An omniscient entity would have a behaviour?

 

[Dantе]

Niggа, God would regret not forgiving Satan after watching this thread. :elmo:​

 

[whiteboy2345]

Anger as in human anger? Wrath as in human wrath? All of these cannot be gauged by human parameters as you are not talking of a human entity. There are gradations to things.

It isn't petty at all. Imagine yourself to be a creator of anything; don't you set all the rules for the said creation? Creating in one's own image doesn't mean that humanity as a whole isn't more than an insignificant race that dies out after an insignificant time and is insignificant in its role even within its immediate world (if considered individually), let alone the grand scheme of things.

God (in the orthodox religions) is omnipotent. If you take the image aspect that literally, then why are none of us omnipotent, or at the very least, beings with some significance? Why aren't we, then? Ah, no. Thought process? Really? What are you talking about? An Omniscient entity's thought processes (you cannot even call it that) would be like ours? Behaviour? An omniscient entity would have a behaviour?

If God wanted to communicate his emotions within his book, why would he use vague and incorrect terms to describe his emotions. God is omnipotent, and can by all means express the same emotions as humans, including anger. He was clearly angry in some parts of the Bible, and the human trait of anger mirrors the anger God shows in the bible. I believe the word anger is used purposefully to inform us of God's feelings and emotions in current periods of time.


God calls himself a jealous God when speaking about the worship of other God's besides himself. In my opinion, this trait is odd due to the fact that these other God's are completely fake. If I were God, I would find humor in people floundering and constantly getting it wrong on who's really God. However, in mirror of the human trait of jealousy, God get's angry when we worship a "God" besides him. Sort of like how a human get's jealous when someone they have feelings for chases after another person. It makes me wonder if we would really lose our human emotions caused by sin even if we became JUST LIKE God, as in perfect.

 

[kimb]

I'll put this in a simple and coherent manner for your comprehension:

> Your claim is false

> Why: God really did create human beings in his own image, but that doesn't mean everything humans do now are a direct reflection of who he is.
> Why I say this: Satan was the one who introduced the concept of sin. If it wasn't for Satan slythering into their minds and manipulating them to think God was depriving them of privileges and whatnot, they wouldn't have known or carried sin. It's all on account of their eating from the tree from which they were blatantly forbidden to eat.

> It's therefore logical to say, our carnality isn't exactly God's fault. Maybe indirectly, since Satan is his creation, but definitely not directly.

> He didn't create man with sin in mind,

> and he definitely wasn't the one who betrayed one simple commandment that a toddler probably could have done better obeying.

I originally shared the same opinion in that not all human behaviors and emotions directly reflect the image of God, which is why I said "behaviors, thought processes, and emotions (some not all) derive directly from him" in my initial comment, but after reading your comment, you've changed my opinion and opened my mind to the potential reality that sin and evil are direct products of God's creation and his intention for humanity from the beginning.

I made an explanation as to why I believe god's intention for creation and humanity was sin and evil, and you can read it in the spoiler tags. Warning: It's Long

Spoiler

There are several instances through out creation that God could have created fail-safes in aware his creation would not defect, but rather than applying those fail-safes he intentionally puts in effort to create methods in which his creations were destined to fail.

Here's the context from where this idea spawns from;

Spoiler

Colossians 1:15-16
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him.

Psalm 147:5
Great is our Lord and mighty in power;
his understanding has no limit.

From those two verses we can assert that all things were created by God, and that all "by products" of his creation were not made without his knowledge, or errors in design as he has no limitation's of knowledge and understanding.

At the top of our list of potential fail-safes we have Lucifer, God's most "perfect creation" as asserted by the bible (ezk28:15). Lucifer was the closest thing to God than God himself, his perfection derived from God as did his desire to be worship. It's later asserted Lucifer was relinquished of his perfection and was cast out of heaven, which leads to believe one of several things;

God was wrong in stating Lucifer was perfect, as Lucifer was flawed in the way of his corruption. If this is true, it would contradict the claim that God has unlimited knowledge.

Lucifer was perfect as God stated, but Lucifer begat sin into existence. If this is true, it would contradict the claim that all things were created by God.

Lucifer was perfect as God stated, and his immorality as God defines it is not a flaw in his design. #LuciferDidNothingWrong

I believe the third scenario holds closest to be true as it does not contradict the Bible's claims of God being the progenitor of all things, and having unlimited knowledge and understanding. This means God knowingly created Lucifer with the desire to be worshiped (sin), and that sin is not a flaw because God stated Lucifer was perfect. Now on the presumption that everything so far is true, the only reason why Lucifer got cast out of heaven was because God is jealous; as asserted in the 10 commandments, "I am a jealous God" (EXD 20). The only wrong I see Lucifer committed was not having power to overthrow God, because if he was built with God's omnipotence and perfect, he would have done the same thing as God would have done to him and cast God out of heaven. And seeing as how the only real thing separating God from Satan is omnipotence, God would have fulfilled the role of Satan should Lucifer decide to follow in a similar path to the creation of man.

Following the initial sequence of events according to the Bible, God knew humanity was destined to fail by his creation of sin, he later widens the criteria of what's considered sin and establishes the threat of eternal damnation the knowledge of humanities failure. He's even been caught in the Bible intentionally manipulating humanity into becoming victims of his damnation by directly hardening their souls and damning their familial generation line, essentially granting humanity with false autonomy. This is mostly my opinion, if you think I'm wrong feel free to express why.

Anger as in human anger? Wrath as in human wrath? All of these cannot be gauged by human parameters as you are not talking of a human entity. There are gradations to things.

It isn't petty at all. Imagine yourself to be a creator of anything; don't you set all the rules for the said creation? Creating in one's own image doesn't mean that humanity as a whole isn't more than an insignificant race that dies out after an insignificant time and is insignificant in its role even within its immediate world (if considered individually), let alone the grand scheme of things.

God (in the orthodox religions) is omnipotent. If you take the image aspect that literally, then why are none of us omnipotent, or at the very least, beings with some significance? Why aren't we, then? Ah, no. Thought process? Really? What are you talking about? An Omniscient entity's thought processes (you cannot even call it that) would be like ours?

Behaviour? An omniscient entity would have a behaviour?

What other parameters can you gage it by? Arguing that God exhibits another form of behavior and emotion with no feasible means of demonstrating it is conjecture. Based on what the 3 major religious text explain, it makes the most sense to gage God's emotions and behaviors by human parameters. Raising the question on whether or not a theoretical omniscient being that may or may not exist would have behaviors and emotions get's us no where.

 

[shelke]

If God wanted to communicate his emotions within his book, why would he use vague and incorrect terms to describe his emotions. God is omnipotent, and can by all means express the same emotions as humans, including anger. He was clearly angry in some parts of the Bible, and the human trait of anger mirrors the anger God shows in the bible. I believe the word anger is used purposefully to inform us of God's feelings and emotions in current periods of time.

God calls himself a jealous God when speaking about the worship of other God's besides himself. In my opinion, this trait is odd due to the fact that these other God's are completely fake. If I were God, I would find humor in people floundering and constantly getting it wrong on who's really God. However, in mirror of the human trait of jealousy, God get's angry when we worship a "God" besides him. Sort of like how a human get's jealous when someone they have feelings for chases after another person. It makes me wonder if we would really lose our human emotions caused by sin even if we became JUST LIKE God, as in perfect.

Those aren't emotions. They are precepts veiled in harrowing tales of censure for humanity and a self-fulfilling commandment. It isn't a God's diary.

Again, it isn't human jealousy. You are bringing an Omniscient entity down to the level of a mere human being. That makes little sense as the time is not linear for a God to begin with, neither are his limitations or powers. I cannot even wrap my head around this concept.

What other parameters can you gage it by? Arguing that God exhibits another form of behavior and emotion with no feasible means of demonstrating it is conjecture. Based on what the 3 major religious text explain, it makes the most sense to gage God's emotions and behaviors by human parameters. Raising the question on whether or not a theoretical omniscient being that may or may not exist would have behaviors and emotions get's us no where.

How and why? How can you even gauge a concept that is infinity unto itself? How can you impose a finite existence and emotions and silly behaviour over a phenomenon that is infinite, limitless and free of limitations? You are joking, right?

Doesn't matter. It's discussion for the sake of discussion. I couldn't care less whether God exists or not. But, within the discussion, you have to play by the parameters presented in the text.

 

[~Uzumaki~]

I originally shared the same opinion in that not all human behaviors and emotions directly reflect the image of God, which is why I said "behaviors, thought processes, and emotions (some not all) derive directly from him" in my initial comment, but after reading your comment, you've changed my opinion and opened my mind to the potential reality that sin and evil are direct products of God's creation and his intention for humanity from the beginning.

I made an explanation as to why I believe god's intention for creation and humanity was sin and evil, and you can read it in the spoiler tags. Warning: It's Long

Spoiler

There are several instances through out creation that God could have created fail-safes in aware his creation would not defect, but rather than applying those fail-safes he intentionally puts in effort to create methods in which his creations were destined to fail.

Here's the context from where this idea spawns from;

Spoiler

Colossians 1:15-16
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him.

Psalm 147:5
Great is our Lord and mighty in power;
his understanding has no limit.

From those two verses we can assert that all things were created by God, and that all "by products" of his creation were not made without his knowledge, or errors in design as he has no limitation's of knowledge and understanding.

At the top of our list of potential fail-safes we have Lucifer, God's most "perfect creation" as asserted by the bible (ezk28:15). Lucifer was the closest thing to God than God himself, his perfection derived from God as did his desire to be worship. It's later asserted Lucifer was relinquished of his perfection and was cast out of heaven, which leads to believe one of several things;

God was wrong in stating Lucifer was perfect, as Lucifer was flawed in the way of his corruption. If this is true, it would contradict the claim that God has unlimited knowledge.

Lucifer was perfect as God stated, but Lucifer begat sin into existence. If this is true, it would contradict the claim that all things were created by God.

Lucifer was perfect as God stated, and his immorality as God defines it is not a flaw in his design. #LuciferDidNothingWrong

I believe the third scenario holds closest to be true as it does not contradict the Bible's claims of God being the progenitor of all things, and having unlimited knowledge and understanding. This means God knowingly created Lucifer with the desire to be worshiped (sin), and that sin is not a flaw because God stated Lucifer was perfect. Now on the presumption that everything so far is true, the only reason why Lucifer got cast out of heaven was because God is jealous; as asserted in the 10 commandments, "I am a jealous God" (EXD 20). The only wrong I see Lucifer committed was not having power to overthrow God, because if he was built with God's omnipotence and perfect, he would have done the same thing as God would have done to him and cast God out of heaven. And seeing as how the only real thing separating God from Satan is omnipotence, God would have fulfilled the role of Satan should Lucifer decide to follow in a similar path to the creation of man.

Following the initial sequence of events according to the Bible, God knew humanity was destined to fail by his creation of sin, he later widens the criteria of what's considered sin and establishes the threat of eternal damnation the knowledge of humanities failure. He's even been caught in the Bible intentionally manipulating humanity into becoming victims of his damnation by directly hardening their souls and damning their familial generation line, essentially granting humanity with false autonomy. This is mostly my opinion, if you think I'm wrong feel free to express why.

What other parameters can you gage it by? Arguing that God exhibits another form of behavior and emotion with no feasible means of demonstrating it is conjecture. Based on what the 3 major religious text explain, it makes the most sense to gage God's emotions and behaviors by human parameters. Raising the question on whether or not a theoretical omniscient being that may or may not exist would have behaviors and emotions get's us no where.

Lucifer was perfect in the sense that he had not failed/sinned.

He was not perfect in the sense that he was infallible. That attribute belongs to God alone.

Sometimes the Bible uses the word perfect to describe obedience.

God told Abraham, 'Walk before me and be perfect'. It was a call to godliness not godhood.

Lucifer was once perfect in obedience, but became imperfect by disobedience.

God did know that man would fall and yet man chose it. He foreordained to allow it happen, just like He foreordained everything that happens and will happen, for His own good and righteous purposes. And yet He is not culpable in man's sin since it was entirely man's choice. Man chose to disobey the only simple command God gave him, thinking God was a liar and that he(man) deserved to be God. That was man's choice and act with accompanying consequences. Man is properly the author of that evil though God allowed it for good purposes. God allowed the fallen serpent to enter Eden knowing that he will tempt the man and the man will fall but tempting the man was Satan's choice and sin and man giving in and disobeying God was man's choice and sin. Is God evil in allowing it? No, because He allowed it for good purposes.

Emotions are not sinful in themselves depending on the object of the emotion. Anger is righteous if indignation is directed at what is wrong and sinful. If I were angry at the killings of the Holocaust, I have committed no sin. Love itself can be sinful if directed at the wrong things. Like the crazy serial killer who loves to kill others. God's anger and jealousy is righteous because it is directed at wrong.

God is jealous because He is the only Being that is deserving of man's worship. In fact, sin is one time defined as man falling short of the glory of God. That is, failing to give glory to God. All sins are a manifestation of this. The eating of the fruit, Satan's rebellion, murder, rape. The greatest evil in any sin is the insult to God inherent in it. Sin gives glory to something or someone else. Murder gives man instead of God the right or authority over human life. Rape exalts the pleasure of *** over the commands of God and so lust is the god of the rapist. All things were made by God FOR God. Everything exists to serve Him and anything short of that is sin.

But you might protest that this is very self centered of God. It isn't because God has so designed man that man's highest joy and fulfillment is in God. Man is like a lock which only God can fit into. Nothing else will fully satisfy man. Man's highest joy comes from his worshiping and enjoying God. The more he does it the happier he is.

God not only deserves this worship because He is all powerful but because He is actually worthy of it. Man exalts learning and wisdom over God and puts science on top of Him but if we could see God we would know that He is the highest Wisdom and he has perfect knowledge. Man exalts pleasure over God but God is the highest pleasure. Man exalts riches over God but He is more valuable than anything and everything. He is the very perfection of beauty and anything worthy of admiration. He will give you more peace, more joy than anything else. If man sees God, he cannot but marvel at Him.

Lucifer cannot offer man this. Worshiping Lucifer and doing his will does not bring the highest satisfaction to man. That is why his desire to be worshipped is wrong. It is completely selfish and it neglects the well being of all the creatures he demands it from. Conversely, since the worship of anything aside God is sin it invites God's wrath. It is disobedience and ingratitude to the God of all creation and so it is deserving of punishment. So Satan's desire for worship is so far from fulfilling that it actually incurs severe penalties to those who comply with him. So it is properly evil.