Why are these two groups so different? I honestly believe that these two groups aren’t that different but it’s just the nature of people to put themselves into groups just to fight each other no matter what subject their speaking of, does anyone want to talk or debate a subject? I’m very left leaning but I agree with some conservatives too
[Debate] Conservatives and Liberals
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Conservatives and liberals aren't political parties so to say they're not all that different is a bit sketchy. On one side encompasses communist ideals and the other fascism so they can be quite different. If you're talking Democrats and Republicans they're both quite close to the center of the political spectrum so no they're not terribly different aside from hard stances on a few issues though you get more extreme beliefs within the party from members that air far more to their respective side than the actual principles of the party whilst these people still may consider themselves part of their respective parties they would more aptly belong elsewhere.
If I get this right you’re saying that left leaning liberals are communistic. Well I just happen to disagree with you. There’s nothing wrong with trying to help your fellow man no matter what race, gender, and regardless of their citizenship. I don’t believe that us liberals are trying to convert the US into a communistic country. I truly believe that we are just trying to help those in need.
No I'm saying on the far left you have communists and on the far right you have fascists and that's not an opinion that's how the political spectrum is divided. That statement you just made though is communistic/socialistic ideal though if you want to go there, but either way you missed what I was saying. I'm saying your opening post likely should be reworded as it leaves it open to comparing Stalin and Hitler instead of Democrats and Republicans which the latter tend to have ideals on both sides because they are so close to being neutral on the political spectrum.
Shanks
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Conservatives leans towards small govt , believe in regional value , religion . Conservative voters believe economic independence from globalised system , prefer homegrown talent , native entrepreunership.
They also believe govt has no role to interfere in regular guy business . Includes right to bear arms , personal healthcare choice , prefer limited govt spending and taxes .
Liberal are opposite side of spectrum they talk of diverse govt, political correctness, their agenda is globalism, most of them liberal believe nationalism is face value considering world always migrated for green shore. (Refugees and undocumented workers)
They have socialist mindset and believe nationalised healthcare system , The end goal for any liberal is social utopia for the common man .lqhich can lead to communism at times.
They also believe govt has no role to interfere in regular guy business . Includes right to bear arms , personal healthcare choice , prefer limited govt spending and taxes .
Liberal are opposite side of spectrum they talk of diverse govt, political correctness, their agenda is globalism, most of them liberal believe nationalism is face value considering world always migrated for green shore. (Refugees and undocumented workers)
They have socialist mindset and believe nationalised healthcare system , The end goal for any liberal is social utopia for the common man .lqhich can lead to communism at times.
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It has changed at times through the years if you believe govt has no role to interfere hour life and you want your own rules . Most of them in south do not want their leaders telling them what to do , To be fair only regan and Trump have proven themselves as the true champion of conservative value. Rest of them were farce thats why romney , bush , mccain eere hated but people had no choice but to vote them.
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Sagebee
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I'm not really sure what they share in common but I think what's defined to be conservative and liberal is built in to be divisive leading to arguement and conflict. I'm sure theres middle ground to be had on issues but it works better ruling parties to create differences for us to argue over which the establishment themselves don't really care about party line differences but money incentives. Conservative and liberal perspectives is built in for one group to fight to keep the status quo and other to fight for constant change some times to an irrational degree. Much of the issues they argue about instead of genuinely caring about those issues are only controversial by parties making them that way. From liberal to conservative side alot people blindly follow believing what the party tells them to believe and each side push party lines to extreme degrees that each side on issues seem crazy and other negative adjectives you want to attach.
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You're only talking about the political parties and individuals. As I said individuals who think themselves Democrats or Republicans can have values that cross over even more radical or reactionary individuals can have ideals from the other side of the spectrum that don't quite mesh with the actual left wing or right wing ideals, so no it really hasn't changed. Leftwing ideals are still leftwing and communism leaning, that doesn't make all Democrats socialists or communists, but their ideology LEANS that direction just like conservatives are still rightwing and fascist leaning, but similarly it doesn't make all Republicans fascists. On the political spectrum with true neutrality being in the exact center Republicans and Democrats are a step right or left from that line, but they're essentially both neutral which is why a Republican president can back liberal ideals easily and tend to only be divided by a few 'hot-button' issues generally these issues are what take the front seat to show that they support their parties basic ideology even if that ideology isn't actually that much different the other guy's.
To be clear the center line shifts a bit to adapt with the evolution of societal views which in turn shifts what the party's stances, but the major parties have always been mostly neutral in the United States. For instance women's liberation movement was far leaning liberal ideals when they were fighting for suffrage and such, but once they achieved that it was adapted as a neutrality so that wanting to revert that would be in line with a much more fascist ideal. Id est if they didn't have suffrage the 'neutral' position would be to simply leave it where it was while wanting a voice was liberal of them hence the name Women's Liberation Movement, but now if you say wanted to run on a platform that wanted to remove their voice it'd be equally conservative to have those beliefs as it deviates away from the new neutral zone.
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As someone from the USSR i can tell you that those so called communists arent communists. In the USSR you were put in the Gulag for all those SJW and LGBTQ stuff, even in modern russia you can get into jail if you got the wrong cop on you. I also doubt that in China, Cuba Vietnam or Laos you would get away with that crap unharmed.
Sorry but as someone who actually is communist its kindaoffending being put together with in one pot with these people.
Also dont get me wrong i dont have anything against the LGBTQ people they can live how they want as long as they dont force their agenda on me and SJW need to be locked away because woman got the same rights as man in many parts of the world so instead of corrupting free societies like the US the should work in countries where Woman actually need help.
Now to the real topic on hand. I assume youre talking about US liberals and conservatives. As of now i live in Germany andbecause of history the liberals here are completly different then the US as well as the Conservatives. SO the difference ist the need of the Society. Politics change with the need and what brings them votes, true the parties try to stick as close as possible to their roots but even them will change if they fear to loose too much power.
And again i dont want to offend anybody and im sorry if i did but please stop to compare leftist extremists with communists thats just wrong.
Sorry but as someone who actually is communist its kindaoffending being put together with in one pot with these people.
Also dont get me wrong i dont have anything against the LGBTQ people they can live how they want as long as they dont force their agenda on me and SJW need to be locked away because woman got the same rights as man in many parts of the world so instead of corrupting free societies like the US the should work in countries where Woman actually need help.
Now to the real topic on hand. I assume youre talking about US liberals and conservatives. As of now i live in Germany andbecause of history the liberals here are completly different then the US as well as the Conservatives. SO the difference ist the need of the Society. Politics change with the need and what brings them votes, true the parties try to stick as close as possible to their roots but even them will change if they fear to loose too much power.
And again i dont want to offend anybody and im sorry if i did but please stop to compare leftist extremists with communists thats just wrong.
Go far enough left or right and they both end up dictatorships.
Being offended by something doesn't make it untrue. Extreme left wing is communistic ideology just how it is.
As for being from the USSR the USSR was dissolved 1991, if you're from Russia now you're not from the USSR.
Where something falls on the political spectrum isn't misinformation nor did I take a stance on whether or not communistic ideology is bad or good.
Communism at it's core is all fine and well, but it's woefully flawed. Everybody is for helping their fellow man as long as it's not them having to sacrifice to do it and in true communism everybody getting equal pay means that people who are a burden on society still get the same as everybody else. This means there is no incentive to work hard at all and when people who would work hard for incentives stop working hard because there isn't really a point to break your back if somebody who doesn't work hard at all gets the same as you then you start putting out less as a control so there ends up being less of everything to distribute and the whole system falls into ruin. So sure on paper sitting around a campfire with the "We are the world" attitude helping everybody and nobody getting left out sounds nice, but it eventually leads to decline
Urda
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It was not directed at you. I understand completely what you are trying to say:
1. Everything falls on a spectrum
2. Liberal and Conservative are not 1 and 2, but fulls on the spectrum.
3. The Spectrum itself is a line that has Fascism to the right end and Communism on the left end.
4. Any ideologies fall in between those two.
5. It is not necessarily bad. It is just to identify the range of ideology.
6. It is based on facts or studies, not opinion.
Chikombo
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They are very different.
But individually speaking I think most people have opinions that are both left and right.
To me conservatives in US has become the far right movement cus they send the same messages and use the same platform as the Far right movement does, if it quacks like a duck.
Liberals are also leaning more towards raising taxes left, which is not the typical liberal in my experience, that goes more towards leftism of European countries where people actually want to raise taxes and the right want's to lower them.
But individually speaking I think most people have opinions that are both left and right.
To me conservatives in US has become the far right movement cus they send the same messages and use the same platform as the Far right movement does, if it quacks like a duck.
Liberals are also leaning more towards raising taxes left, which is not the typical liberal in my experience, that goes more towards leftism of European countries where people actually want to raise taxes and the right want's to lower them.
True the USSR was dissolved but it doesnt mean that those who are born there arent soviets just because the nation as it was doesnt exist anymore. If you move into another country your nationality will change only on paper but it doesnt change you Roots, believes or DNA. Also the people in that new country will always refer to you as one from your old nation and not the one you moved to. that how its is in europe.
Idealogy surpasses nations. Looks at the people of Kurdisthan, the nation doesnt exist either yet the people exist because the dont give up on them. I was Born in the USSR i was raised there but the National Pride, the Idealogy lives on. and thats what this topic is all about in the end, different idealogies clashing at each other no matter in wich form. Communism got different variations from leninismn to Maoism, Democracy got different forms as well. Whats best and whats true is alway a point of view and therefore somethin people will always argue about.
Conservatives and liberals arent a exeption, the supporters of each faction got their Idealogy set no matter how it changes over time ( Trump and their supporters are the best example if you know what i mean) .
HowDidIGetPrem
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The majority of communist governments that rose have been the leftist equivalent of fascism though. The two aren't opposites, but practically the same. It doesn't make sense to divide the ideologies by what form of draconian government they become. The real divide are the values that make you go "I belong on this side" or "I belong on that side." To me, the divide is caused by 4 main concerns:
1. The economy
2. Concern for others
3. Individual rights/concern
4. Liberty- specifically in regards to from the government
I think, US conservatives and democrats consider number 3 their hugest tenant, but then apply it according to their prioties.
A democrats' would look like this:
A conservative's like this:
Where a democrat might step on your rights(3) to promote someone else's(2), a conservative will step on your rights(2) to promote their own(3). Where a conservative will sacrifice others and himself(3)(2) for the economy(1), a democrat will sacrifice the economy(1) for others(2). Where a democrat might state the government is stepping on our 4th amendment(2), a conservative will say it's necessary(3). Where a conservative will say the government is stepping on our 2nd amendment(3), a democrat will say it's necessary(2). Obviously, plenty of people don't adhere 100% to this- ESPECIALLY not to the last two examples, but that's how I see the divide between us. Not our D and R politicians, but us ourselves.
You can't actually use reason to close it, because the divide isn't even a question of whether we should build the house with wood or brick. Few care whether the wood or brick is actually better for the situation. What they actually care about is who's land is going to be sacrificed for the house and who for, so unless you can convince someone that they care for the wrong things, you're not going to make any real progress. It's like the equivalent of trying to convince someone that one art piece is better than another. Objectivity actually begins to get destroyed around that point, and it's just your personality and feelings that are making all the choices.
You see this most heavily in regards to beliefs surrounding rape allegations, because it's as clear as day; Either the land of men will be sacrificed or the land of women will be sacrificed. You legitimately can't partake in those kinds of discussions without feeling at least a bit dirty because everyone loses and you know it.
1. The economy
2. Concern for others
3. Individual rights/concern
4. Liberty- specifically in regards to from the government
I think, US conservatives and democrats consider number 3 their hugest tenant, but then apply it according to their prioties.
A democrats' would look like this:
| 2 |
| 3 |
| 4 |
| 1 |
| 1 |
| 3 |
| 4 |
| 2 |
Where a democrat might step on your rights(3) to promote someone else's(2), a conservative will step on your rights(2) to promote their own(3). Where a conservative will sacrifice others and himself(3)(2) for the economy(1), a democrat will sacrifice the economy(1) for others(2). Where a democrat might state the government is stepping on our 4th amendment(2), a conservative will say it's necessary(3). Where a conservative will say the government is stepping on our 2nd amendment(3), a democrat will say it's necessary(2). Obviously, plenty of people don't adhere 100% to this- ESPECIALLY not to the last two examples, but that's how I see the divide between us. Not our D and R politicians, but us ourselves.
You can't actually use reason to close it, because the divide isn't even a question of whether we should build the house with wood or brick. Few care whether the wood or brick is actually better for the situation. What they actually care about is who's land is going to be sacrificed for the house and who for, so unless you can convince someone that they care for the wrong things, you're not going to make any real progress. It's like the equivalent of trying to convince someone that one art piece is better than another. Objectivity actually begins to get destroyed around that point, and it's just your personality and feelings that are making all the choices.
You see this most heavily in regards to beliefs surrounding rape allegations, because it's as clear as day; Either the land of men will be sacrificed or the land of women will be sacrificed. You legitimately can't partake in those kinds of discussions without feeling at least a bit dirty because everyone loses and you know it.
Not even going to humor this notion by responding fully instead I'm going to say that it's that mentality why various hate groups like Nazi's still exist or the KKK, defining your belief system by the past carrying forward those sentiments. You also are trying to say ideology isn't defined by a nation and yet you're tying your belief system back to a national identity and one that went by the wayside for a reason at that.