[Game] Conquering Everest #33

[ThatAverageGuy]

I don't think he is shooting your TR on Alice, it's more like he is questioning the right points.

Do you think his question was wrong or forced on anyway? If the answer is yes, explain more on that. If the answer is no, then how can you say "you're trying to shoot down my TR of Alice".

I think his question was fine, but his approach to it was confusing given his own apparent TR of Alice. At first glance it looked like Vaseline Guy was trying to discourage me from Townreading Alice. At second glance it looks more like he's trying to figure out how I got there from Alice's interactions with you. To him, Alice's interactions with you have less meaning than they do for me, which is why I told him we play the game differently.

 

[ThatAverageGuy]

I like this questioning process, reminds me of nova's questions to you somehow. Hmm..

Which community are you from, if you don't mind me asking.

None, currently. I came out of retirement as a personal favor to Michelle.

 

[ThatAverageGuy]

I'm okay if we don't lynch. I'm not sure about Nova and Osie?

Osie sounds defensive but not enough to make me scum read him .so NO


NOVA sounds too engaging to be scum . So also No.



My vote will remain on Ansa.

Alice, why were you okay with not lynching yesterday? If we don't lynch, how are we gonna kill wolves?

 

[Poison]

I actually noticed three instances of Alice trying very hard to meta-read you as Town. I've put them in a spoiler below and highlighted the pertinent parts of the quotes in whatever random color my mouse landed on.


She's trying very hard to get you to play into her Town meta knowledge of you. I think if she's Mafia, she doesn't need to do that. She just BS's some way to Townread you, or she calls you Scum and calls for your head.

If this still doesn't make it any sense, then call it a personal tonal read of mine and move on.

If you keep asking people to move on, you might end up getting chopped.

The thing is, with Alice's game so far, if s!Alice posts these, there is a fair chance of trying to pocket or trying hard to make a read on a player in the game. These are not so towny in particular.

It just strikes me that your read on Alice as Towny is rather very easy. And seems like you haven't considered other options. I have played over 20 games with her, and I still cannot read her properly cause no matter what she does, I'll get an easy scum read on her.

You have either thought and posted the first view that came to your mind, without considering the other worlds or you have some sort of TMI. I don't see any traces of a world where you considered more than one possibilities and come up with that conclusion.

 

[ThatAverageGuy]

yes lets vote between aa and alice

Rej, what made you decide to vote my slot over Alice's?

 

[Poison]

I think his question was fine, but his approach to it was confusing given his own apparent TR of Alice. At first glance it looked like Vaseline Guy was trying to discourage me from Townreading Alice. At second glance it looks more like he's trying to figure out how I got there from Alice's interactions with you. To him, Alice's interactions with you have less meaning than they do for me, which is why I told him we play the game differently.

I feel really good about this reply honestly.

 

[ThatAverageGuy]

If you keep asking people to move on, you might end up getting chopped.

My slot was already swinging from a noose by the time I got here. If I end up being chopped then at best I did what I could but did not have enough impact to either A) change the minds of towns, or B) counteract the influence of wolves.

Also I believe you'll find I don't take particularly well to threats, nor to what I "should" be saying about my own personal reads.

The thing is, with Alice's game so far, if s!Alice posts these, there is a fair chance of trying to pocket or trying hard to make a read on a player in the game. These are not so towny in particular.

It just strikes me that your read on Alice as Towny is rather very easy. And seems like you haven't considered other options. I have played over 20 games with her, and I still cannot read her properly cause no matter what she does, I'll get an easy scum read on her.

To be frank, I don't care about your meta of Alice. I don't care how easily you do or do not find her as Town. Because I am not you. Just as I am not Vaseline Guy, I am not Alice, I am not Elmage, or anyone else. "I struggle to Town read Alice, but this guy seems to be doing it pretty easily" is not a valid reason for scumreading me if you are Town. It just means that I use different methods to form my reads.

You have either thought and posted the first view that came to your mind, without considering the other worlds or you have some sort of TMI. I don't see any traces of a world where you considered more than one possibilities and come up with that conclusion.

I considered the world in which you are Town, and I considered the world in which you are Wolf, and then I considered what these would mean for Alice if she was wolf, and then I considered what these would mean for Alice if she was town, and as a result of my hypothetisizing, I decided that Alice's interactions with you are more indicative of a Town mindset.

And no offence, but you accused Haze yesterday of having TMI on Ansa, so I'm not particularly moved by that accusation right now. In fact, it feels very, very weak, especially since it's basically an echo of what Vaseline Guy said to me a couple of hours ago.

 

[ThatAverageGuy]

Earlier I said that I had some bad feelings about Rej. I'll try and put into words, if I can, exactly why those feelings came about.

Maybe we are team mates, who knows. if both me and Ansa flip green then we are team mates. Wbu? Can you bus your mafia mate please?

This was the first post that pinged me when I started reading the thread. The tone just feels off. I'm not sure I can explain it any better than that. The casual "who knows" of the first part feels designed to reinforce the idea that Rej is uninformed. The second part did not age well given Ansa's flip. The third part is generally something I associate with wolves coquettishly asking villagers questions they know they can't answer.

 

[Poison]

My slot was already swinging from a noose by the time I got here. If I end up being chopped then at best I did what I could but did not have enough impact to either A) change the minds of towns, or B) counteract the influence of wolves.

Also I believe you'll find I don't take particularly well to threats, nor to what I "should" be saying about my own personal reads.



To be frank, I don't care about your meta of Alice. I don't care how easily you do or do not find her as Town. Because I am not you. Just as I am not Vaseline Guy, I am not Alice, I am not Elmage, or anyone else. "I struggle to Town read Alice, but this guy seems to be doing it pretty easily" is not a valid reason for scumreading me if you are Town. It just means that I use different methods to form my reads.



I considered the world in which you are Town, and I considered the world in which you are Wolf, and then I considered what these would mean for Alice if she was wolf, and then I considered what these would mean for Alice if she was town, and as a result of my hypothetisizing, I decided that Alice's interactions with you are more indicative of a Town mindset.

And no offence, but you accused Haze yesterday of having TMI on Ansa, so I'm not particularly moved by that accusation right now. In fact, it feels very, very weak, especially since it's basically an echo of what Vaseline Guy said to me a couple of hours ago.

Yes mostly because we are mindmelding on the obvious stuff I think.

Your idc attitude towards some stuff is good look for you, but I can't say that's enough to move my vote from you.

1. You are scummy, not for having a read on Alice with comparison to my read on her, but because your posts did not sound like you struggled enough on that slot to have that read. If that makes sense.

2. You are scummy, because your previous slot was very diplomatic and their approach to the game felt rather opportunistic from the shading point of view or rather to have a very balanced read and thoughts in the game, which, if scum, would make more sense than any confused towny from my perspective.

 

[ThatAverageGuy]

Anyway I will start some smart plays here:

Alice seemingly shows differential behaviour towards Ansa which lets me think that Alice threats Ansa and others like me like players that arr not aligned to her. As a result and because Haze opts Ansa as town I think that I found my towncore. Yes its Ansa and Haze. That makes 3/10 and thins out the scumhunting.

This makes me read Alice as null and lock it.

Poison on the other hand less substance

Osie is fine, yet to unfold.

Odds vote on novas pings me. Odd generally in a spot thats hard to unfold. Relying now on novas taking the bait.

AA and novas yet tonpost

Elmage has yet to unfold.

Did I miss anything?

The outcome of the read on Alice here feels at odds with the first statement. If Alice treats Ansa (and others) like they are players unalighed to her, and you Town read Ansa, then surely the default position to take on Alice is that she's wolf. "Null" is not in opposition to Town, and it being "locked" is just ???

Additionally, this looks like a post that has a lot of content but it's basically just saying "Alice, AA, Nova, Elmage, all null, Osie fine, Odd null, Haze and Ansa Town core"

At the very least I would've expected a more solid stance on Alice, given the stance on Ansa, and by this point I think Osie had also started to pressure Haze due to their unwieldy town read of Ansa, so I would expect some suspicion there too.

It just feels like Rej is afraid to call anyone scum.

 

[ThatAverageGuy]

I must admit I nowadays like Elmage more as player than a year ago. A year ago he let town carry him in D1 and he rarely to almost never asked the right questions. Nowadays his D1 is generally better and funnier. Because of these constancies +1 townpoint.

This isn't even a read, it's just pointing out an evolving style.

 

[Poison]

This isn't even a read, it's just pointing out an evolving style.

Totally agree with this.

 

[ThatAverageGuy]

+1 for open confrontation with Alice and I feel he will also be open towards others. I feel Elmage was way harder to read back then. Like you could always gove him a -1 and then push him to no avail. You know what I mean? Recently he is different, maybe a bit more refined? Idk how to explain it. I just vibe with it.

Hard to make this kind of call without having Alice or Elmage flipped, but I would say that if either flips green this is a very bad look for Rej, it comes across like encouraging V-on-V confrontation.

 

[ThatAverageGuy]

1. You are scummy, not for having a read on Alice with comparison to my read on her, but because your posts did not sound like you struggled enough on that slot to have that read. If that makes sense.

I'm sorry, nobody informed me I was supposed to struggle on any reads. I'll write a strongly worded letter about this post game.

2. You are scummy, because your previous slot was very diplomatic and their approach to the game felt rather opportunistic from the shading point of view or rather to have a very balanced read and thoughts in the game, which, if scum, would make more sense than any confused towny from my perspective.

Tell you what. Pretend my predecessor doesn't exist. Read me off what I'm doing and saying. At least give me another Day phase, to have chance to gain some potential insight into the motivations of players, and interact more meaningfully with the entire player list.

 

[Poison]

I'm sorry, nobody informed me I was supposed to struggle on any reads. I'll write a strongly worded letter about this post game.

If you are not the host/player with TMI/God who knows everything you are supposed to struggle with your read. At least a little bit.

Your confidence scares me.

Tell you what. Pretend my predecessor doesn't exist. Read me off what I'm doing and saying. At least give me another Day phase, to have chance to gain some potential insight into the motivations of players, and interact more meaningfully with the entire player list.

I'm trying to do that at the moment.

 

[ThatAverageGuy]

To summarize my thoughts on Rej, their posts just don't come across like they have no knowledge. I get the feeling Rej is always comfortable, never pushing for answers, never striving for the truth, always being careful not to offend anyone too much. I think the strongest read I've seen from them is "I don't like Alice's shemy play, let's do it. Vote lynch Alice", meanwhile reducing the hunt to a POE.

My PoE are the ladies: Poison, Alice and aa is poison/aa...

Which is just... meh.

 

[Poison]

I agree with some of your points on rej ngl.

 

[ThatAverageGuy]

If you are not the host/player with TMI/God who knows everything you are supposed to struggle with your read. At least a little bit.

Your confidence scares me.

I knowingly subbed into a sinking slot, and the only way to pull myself out of it is to trust myself and hope I can bag a wolf to clear my name. I won't do that by being indecisive.

 

[Poison]

I knowingly subbed into a sinking slot, and the only way to pull myself out of it is to trust myself and hope I can bag a wolf to clear my name. I won't do that by being indecisive.

Can you give me your read list?

 

[Poison]

I'll be back after dinner actually