[Theory] CoA Haki and logia related myth

[Brucewen001]

I think people are living Upto this misunderstanding...CoA=complete dominance over logia...
This reason makes Eneruvery underrated character despite being elemental logia...
This is stupid...even if someone uses CoA,he cannot force logia into completely physical form...
By using CoA,you can somehow force them to be tangible.if you try to punch Akainu with only Haki,you will get yourself burned...that's why shanks defended through sword not kick or hands...
Even when whitebeard attacked Akainu in rage,he used his spear,or attacked him in complete physical form.
(Rayleigh countered kizaru kick but it wasn't in laser form otherwise he could get hurt himself, it was only superfast intangible kick)
same theory applies to eneru...you dare try countering or attacking him with CoA only, unless you wanna get high voltage shot...
Caribou,Aokiji,crocodile etc. normal logias can be touched or punched by CoA,even could be defeated(if high caliber CoA is applied like garp,rayleigh shanks etc. e.g. pekom caribou case)
So,Haki is not complete solution to logia(some logia but not every logia)...it might provide medium to touch them but not complete win...

 

[Migualon J.J.]

i think you're wrong at least a bit, i mean, if you create strong enough "armor" with it, than you can actually punch Akainu without getting burned

 

[Hamish44]

um shanks stopped Akainu with his sword because he is a swordsman... that much is pretty obvious.
and btw it's Enel.

 

[Brucewen001]

i think you're wrong at least a bit, i mean, if you create strong enough "armor" with it, than you can actually punch Akainu without getting burned

don't you think that would overrate Haki and prove that most powerful df aka logia are completely useless against CoA...
Again I am not saying every logia but particulars only,because of elemental superiority like magma,laser(I don't think someone can deflect kizaru laser/Akainu's magma fists with bare hands using CoA, Eneru lightning, fire etc.) They would need weapons like swords...or something else to counter it...
That makes Eneru and Akainu same level dangerous to touch...

 

[Brucewen001]

um shanks stopped Akainu with his sword because he is a swordsman... that much is pretty obvious.
and btw it's Enel.

he is not swordsmen in particular,but Rayleigh is.why did he countered kizaru with kick?

 

[Hamish44]

he is not swordsmen in particular,but Rayleigh is.why did he countered kizaru with kick?

um... i can only guess he wanted to redirect the attack. or he mightn't have have drawn his sword yet? can't remember i'd have to rewatch the ep

wait Shanks is a swordsman. he used to duel on par with Mihawk i'd think that'd classify him as a swordsman.

 

[Brucewen001]

um... i can only guess he wanted to redirect the attack. or he mightn't have have drawn his sword yet? can't remember i'd have to rewatch the ep

wait Shanks is a swordsman. he used to duel on par with Mihawk i'd think that'd classify him as a swordsman.

he is alrounder,Mihawk is pure swordsmen...

 

[AT sama]

Shanks is not swordsman. If he were, we would have to say that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks, becouse mihawk is strongest swordsman.
Another thing, ıf Shanks did stop Akainu's lawa punch with another way, but not using his sword, so we knew that what kind powers Shanks has.

 

[Migualon J.J.]

don't you think that would overrate Haki and prove that most powerful df aka logia are completely useless against CoA...
Again I am not saying every logia but particulars only,because of elemental superiority like magma,laser(I don't think someone can deflect kizaru laser/Akainu's magma fists with bare hands using CoA, Eneru lightning, fire etc.) They would need weapons like swords...or something else to counter it...
That makes Eneru and Akainu same level dangerous to touch...

you would have to have CoA on incredibly high level to be able to make armor strong enough, i would say that Rayleigh maybe, only MAYBE has strong enough CoA to create armor strong enough not to get hurt by Akainu's magma

 

[Hyperion]

Shanks is not swordsman. If he were, we would have to say that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks, becouse mihawk is strongest swordsman.
Another thing, ıf Shanks did stop Akainu's lawa punch with another way, but not using his sword, so we knew that what kind powers Shanks has.

But Shanks is a swordsmen.

As for Haki, it depends on how strong it is.
And you're using Enel, which is not a very good example.

Some Busoshoku Haki users can beat Enel, while others can't.
It all depends on how strong the Busoshoku Haki is.

 

[s0ulja]

why would u get burnt if there is a layer of invisible armor (haki) between ur skin and the magma?..i thought that was the whole concept of an 'armor'. plus it doesn't over-power them..nobody stopped the opponent from using the same technique to counter it.

 

[Brucewen001]

Let me remind you, when Marco and Vista used Haki against Akainu, magma was spilling with each strike...
You sound like everyone is on garp/shanks/Rayleigh/admiral level in haki...

 

[aashish1996]

Let me remind you, when Marco and Vista used Haki against Akainu, magma was spilling with each strike...
You sound like everyone is on garp/shanks/Rayleigh/admiral level in haki...

I think it depends on what kind of devil's fruit power you get even when it comes to logia. Aokiji is relatively easy to hit and cause damage with haki because ice doesn't cause as much damage as hitting someone like akainu even with the armor haki. Of course, I agree that not everybody is at the same level as rayleigh (best example cause he is boss with it).

 

[s0ulja]

Let me remind you, when Marco and Vista used Haki against Akainu, magma was spilling with each strike...
You sound like everyone is on garp/shanks/Rayleigh/admiral level in haki...

magma is liquid...

 

[windrider]

But Shanks is a swordsmen.

As for Haki, it depends on how strong it is.
And you're using Enel, which is not a very good example.

Some Busoshoku Haki users can beat Enel, while others can't.
It all depends on how strong the Busoshoku Haki is.

Yes I disagree ,having bushoshoki armor has been proved to be very effecive against any kind of physical attack or physical force but what about elemental attacks ? Akoji was able to freeze Kozu who was confirmed to have BH haki.Akainu was able to punch a hole in WB .Now u can counter argue that they both are admirals and they used bushoshoku haki against WB but is there any evidance to proove that they used bushoshoku haki when they were using their logia elemental attacks ? The only time they seemed to have used Bushoshoku haki was when all the three admirals formed a human blockade to nullify white beards attack .
But even in that case none of them were in their elemental form .

one more thing ,I already brought this thing in the other thread . I think a logia user having a subtle element like fire,magma,light,lightning etc cannot use Busoshoku Haki along with their logia elements .Cause these elements do not have a form or shape .I can't even imagine a Busoshoku haki imbued in fire or lightning .

when they were in their elemntal form ,we saw how akaoji got hurt when kozu broke his ice form ,he spit out blood .why did not he imbue his ice form with bushoshoki haki ? cause it very difficult form them to control both the things at the same time .It is the same case with Akainu too ,when he was attacked by marco who was also confirmed to have BH haki .He did got hurt .Now if akainu had imbued his Bushoshoku haki with his magma element .he could have pawned amrco.why did he not do that .Take the same ase with Kizaru Vs Rayliegh .Kizaru would have gained an upper hand over rayliegh only if he has imbued his light elemental with his BH haki but he was having difficulty facing Rayliegh who did not have any DF ability .All these evidence shows that an logia user when uses a subtle logia element like fire or light cannot imbue it with Bushoshoku haki .

Bushoshoku haki can be used only along with gross elemental bodies like weapons(confirmed) ,stone,rubber(confirmed),normal physical attacks(confirmed),cannon ball (confirmed ) etc

 

[s0ulja]

Yes I disagree ,having bushoshoki armor has been proved to be very effecive against any kind of physical attack or physical force but what about elemental attacks ? Akoji was able to freeze Kozu who was confirmed to have BH haki.Akainu was able to punch a hole in WB .Now u can counter argue that they both are admirals and they used bushoshoku haki against WB but is there any evidance to proove that they used bushoshoku haki when they were using their logia elemental attacks ? The only time they seemed to have used Bushoshoku haki was when all the three admirals formed a human blocked to nullify white beards attack .
But even in that case none of them were in their elemental form .

one more thing ,I already brought this thing in the other thread . I think a logia user having a subtle element like fire,magma,light,lightning etc cannot use Busoshoku Haki along with their logia elements .Cause these elements do not have a form or shape .I can't even imagine a Busoshoku haki imbued in fire or lightning .

when they were in their elemntal form ,we saw how akaoji got hurt when kozu broke his ice form ,he spit out blood .why did not he imbue his ice form with bushoshoki haki ? cause it very difficult form them to control both the things at the same time .It is the same case with Akainu too ,when he was attacked by marco who was also confirmed to have BH haki .He did got hurt .Now if akainu had imbued his Bushoshoku haki with his magma element .he could have pawned amrco.why did he not do that .Take the same ase with Kizaru Vs Rayliegh .Kizaru would have gained an upper hand over rayliegh only if he has imbued his light elemental with his BH haki but he was having difficulty facing Rayliegh who did not have any DF ability .All these evidence shows that an logia user when uses a subtle logia element like fire or light cannot imbue it with Bushoshoku haki .

Bushoshoku haki can be used only along with gross elemental bodies like weapons(confirmed) ,stone,rubber(confirmed),normal physical attacks(confirmed),cannon ball (confirmed ) etc

-u can say there is no evidence of them not using it either...?
but yes it does seem impractical for logia's to use it when they attack, but it can be used for defense also..for example when kizaru stopped marco's first attack without any damage at all

yes i agree the degree of difficulty of controlling haki n element at the same time but these guys are admirals..sureli that should say something about their abilities/skills?

i think saying they 'cannot' use it is going too far, as i said it might not suit their offense but it provides one hell of a defense..take marco vs kizaru example

 

[windrider]

-u can say there is no evidence of them not using it either...?
but yes it does seem impractical for logia's to use it when they attack, but it can be used for defense also..for example when kizaru stopped marco's first attack without any damage at all

yes i agree the degree of difficulty of controlling haki n element at the same time but these guys are admirals..sureli that should say something about their abilities/skills?

i think saying they 'cannot' use it is going too far, as i said it might not suit their offense but it provides one hell of a defense..take marco vs kizaru example

I was saying it is impractical to imbue a subtle element with Bunshoshoki haki .
Same example marco vs kizaru ,marco kick sent kizaru flying .Marco was using bushoshoki haki and kizaru was using his elemntal power here . Even here is an evidance that shows that kizaru was not using his bushoshoki haki when he was using his elemtal powers .

Even if he assume that kizaru did use his haki when he using his elemental attacks over marco,then his haki was very weak because marco's kick did send kizaru flying away.This is the same case with akaoji too ,when kozu broke akoji's ice form (he was completely dependent on his logia DF not on his bushoshoki haki) .If he did imbue his ice form with bushoshoki haki ,then Oda would has definitelt given us a clue or a visual distinction like how he did with luffy (elephant gun ) .

I am arguing only about logia users not paramecia and zoan type since they are well known to use their haki along with their DF .Eg Boa hancock ,luffy ,marco(he was half pheonix when he kicked kizaru) ,kozu (he was half diamond when he broke akoji)
It is either difficult or impractical to imbue haki with an logia element

 

[s0ulja]

I was saying it is impractical to imbue a subtle element with Bunshoshoki haki .
Same example marco vs kizaru ,marco kick sent kizaru flying .Marco was using bushoshoki haki and kizaru was using his elemntal power here . Even here is an evidance that shows that kizaru was not using his bushoshoki haki when he was using his elemtal powers .

Even if he assume that kizaru did use his haki when he using his elemental attacks over marco,then his haki was very weak because marco's kick did send kizaru flying away.This is the same case with akaoji too ,when kozu broke akoji's ice form (he was completely dependent on his logia DF not on his bushoshoki haki) .If he did imbue his ice form with bushoshoki haki ,then Oda would has definitelt given us a clue or a visual distinction like how he did with luffy (elephant gun ) .

I am arguing only about logia users not paramecia and zoan type since they are well known to use their haki along with their DF .Eg Boa hancock ,luffy ,marco(he was half pheonix when he kicked kizaru) ,kozu (he was half diamond when he broke akoji)
It is either difficult or impractical to imbue haki with an logia element

maybe u meant impractical, but u said they 'cannot'..means two different things, but impractical i agree with

marco used two hits..first one kizaru didnt even move..jus smirked at him, i'd say thats him using haki armor...seeing this marco increased his vigor n sent kizaru down with the 2nd shot but he walked out unscratched. so imo when logias are fighting the only way to do real damage to them is haki..ofcuz with the exception of obvious elemental advantages

yes i agree the difficulty level would be higher for logia's (maybe this is oda's way of balancing things out since logia's generally are the strongest of the 3 fruits) but i don't think its impossible

 

[windrider]

maybe u meant impractical, but u said they 'cannot'..means two different things, but impractical i agree with

marco used two hits..first one kizaru didnt even move..jus smirked at him, i'd say thats him using haki armor...seeing this marco increased his vigor n sent kizaru down with the 2nd shot but he walked out unscratched. so imo when logias are fighting the only way to do real damage to them is haki..ofcuz with the exception of obvious elemental advantages

yes i agree the difficulty level would be higher for logia's (maybe this is oda's way of balancing things out since logia's generally are the strongest of the 3 fruits) but i don't think its impossible

you are 100 percent correct atleast according to me .Now imagine if Akainu could imbue his magma element or kizaru his light element with bunshoshoku haki ,they will be literally god . .Already their logia attacks or super strong if they imbue their logia attacks with bushoshoki haki ..They will literally be invincible .why would Oda do that . I am not arguing that they do not have bunshoshoki haki .I am arguing that they can use only the either of them at a time.If they use both ,then rayleigh's attack and marco's attack would not have done any damage at all

 

[s0ulja]

you are 100 percent correct atleast according to me .Now imagine if Akainu could imbue his magma element or kizaru his light element with bunshoshoku haki ,they will be literally god . .Already their logia attacks or super strong if they imbue their logia attacks with bushoshoki haki ..They will literally be invincible .why would Oda do that . I am not arguing that they do not have bunshoshoki haki .I am arguing that they can use only the either of them at a time.If they use both ,then rayleigh's attack and marco's attack would not have done any damage at all

i guess we'l just have to agree to disagree since we havn't seen an in-depth fight of logias but i get the feeling we will soon, we've already been told about akainu vs aokiji lasted for few days, where both parties received severe damage...how did aokiji manage to span out the battle for so long and deal damage to akainu without haki? (magma>fire>ice) but i guess we'l find out in the future

as far as i can tell it didnt do any damage..
rayleigh was just buying time, n frm marco's attack kizaru walked out of the ruble without any damage

ahaha let oda deal with that, im sure he wont dissapoint:noc: