C'mon Kishi really? endless row of new secret antagonists pulling strings...
- Thread starter Hawker
- Start date
Oh come on! If you didn't anticipate a brisk introduction from Kaguya then you must be totally short-sighted
It made perfect sense and was most certainly perfectly timed.
What recent reveals? God like beings? We knew about them a long time ago. :erm:
Black Zetsu truth? From my perspective, I think that this is one of Kishimoto's best works on Naruto. . . how a minor character such as Black Zetsu (which no one would suspect) was always behind the scenes.
Some fans are just irritated because their favorite villain was building up for so long and was taken out of the picture just like that. . . but that's the fun part for me, and maybe some others, that you wouldn't expect that to happen. . . :yeah:
most people are irritated because their whole perspective of the naruto world was changed in a few chapters.what we have been seeing till the last month was just some pebbles rolling down a mountain(uchiha vs senju destiny)... now we are shown an avalanche(BZ was dictating the shinobi world )... and this is what most people find hard to process..
Well, yes, but that's because all these villains have been working on the same plan, Tsuki no me, and Akatsuki was the main factor in carrying this plan out.
Besides, you are overexaggerating thinsg. "Pain" (Deva path/Yahiko) might have been a puppet of Nagato, but it was still the same character.
At the time when Nagato was revealed, we already knew Tobi ("Madara") was the villain. We never thought of the character named "Nagato" as the main villain.
Althought Tobi was Obito, he posed as "Madara" for most of the time, including telling Madara's backstory etc. So Madara was already sort of in it as a villain. And by the time Obito's identity was revealed, Madara was already back and it was shown he knew of the plan.
And Black Zetsu was never the main villain. Kaguya is. Last chapter only clarified his role as her will, but we knew he set everything up for her since he betrayed Madara anyway.
So, in short, it wasn't exactly one villain after the other.
Besides, you are overexaggerating thinsg. "Pain" (Deva path/Yahiko) might have been a puppet of Nagato, but it was still the same character.
At the time when Nagato was revealed, we already knew Tobi ("Madara") was the villain. We never thought of the character named "Nagato" as the main villain.
Althought Tobi was Obito, he posed as "Madara" for most of the time, including telling Madara's backstory etc. So Madara was already sort of in it as a villain. And by the time Obito's identity was revealed, Madara was already back and it was shown he knew of the plan.
And Black Zetsu was never the main villain. Kaguya is. Last chapter only clarified his role as her will, but we knew he set everything up for her since he betrayed Madara anyway.
So, in short, it wasn't exactly one villain after the other.
Twisted007
Active member
King-Panda
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First we learn that Nagato was the real pain, he wasn't simply manipulating him, he was Pain. Then we learn that Nagato was manipulated by Obito, under the alias of Madara. Then we learn that Nagato, Yahiko and Konan originally created Akatsuki. Then we learn that Tobi/Madara is really Obito. Then we learn that the real Madara saved Obito. Then we learn that Madara and Obito never really were friends. Then we learn that Obito betrayed Madara. Then we learned that Madara had a back up plan to use Obito. Then we learned that Black Zetsu had manipulated the entire Shinobi world. All in all, we only have one great manipulator. That is Black Zetsu, Nagato had his own plan, Obito had is own plan, Madara has his plan and so on. They were all manipulated by Black Zetsu however. |
NaruSasuRival
Active member
You are complaining about what makes Naruto the greatest Manga for me. Cheese, are you serious? To be honest, I hate every linear series where there is no twist from start to end. In fact, when I start a new series, I start looking for puzzle. It there is no puzzle to solve, there is no series for me.
Finally, you and your friends are making a mistake. Nagato has never been manipulated by Obito. Rather, Nagato kept the initial plan built by Yaiko. Nagato did not oppose Obito but he was doing exactly what he wanted to do. Nagato believed in his own plan until the end. In fact, Nagato did not change his plan when he met Naruto. Rather, he changed his method. He dropped the pain method that Yaiko came up with to endorse Naruto's mutual understanding scheme. If Obito was manipulating Nagato, Obito would have talked about moon eye plan to Nagato. Obito was afraid of Nagato not accepting his plan, so he hid it. See, Nagato did not even have a thought about Obito/Tobi/Madara when he met Naruto. He made his decision without any reference to them.
You can say anything you want, but you will never see a Senju pawn in the series. They are boss.
Finally, you and your friends are making a mistake. Nagato has never been manipulated by Obito. Rather, Nagato kept the initial plan built by Yaiko. Nagato did not oppose Obito but he was doing exactly what he wanted to do. Nagato believed in his own plan until the end. In fact, Nagato did not change his plan when he met Naruto. Rather, he changed his method. He dropped the pain method that Yaiko came up with to endorse Naruto's mutual understanding scheme. If Obito was manipulating Nagato, Obito would have talked about moon eye plan to Nagato. Obito was afraid of Nagato not accepting his plan, so he hid it. See, Nagato did not even have a thought about Obito/Tobi/Madara when he met Naruto. He made his decision without any reference to them.
You can say anything you want, but you will never see a Senju pawn in the series. They are boss.
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SkyGodHorus
Active member
YOU DO SAY!
How about a Chimera final antagonist with Black Zetsu's personality, Madara's form and Kaguya's powers?
No. Yahiko had the same ideal and method as Naruto. The original Akatsuki didn't opt for killing people, they only wanted to protect, and were in fact working towards mutual understanding between enemies. Yahiko was pretty much a Naruto copy. But after his death, Nagato completely broke down mentally and accepted Obito's advice. He never came up with the Bijuu-collecting stuff. And he was never shown to be suspicious about Obito or going against his orders at all.
Not quite right. As Zol already said, the bijuu collecting and killing people was Obito's plan. Nagato just went with it. That's subtle manipulation. Also Nagato belived Obito to be Madara. That's also manipulation 'cause Obito made Nagato believe something that wasn't true and so that was a good thing for Obito's plan.
narutoblitz
Active member
The way I see it is that almost everyone in naruto is using each other for example Kakuzu was using Akatsuki to make money, Akatsuki was using Deidara to make explosions, Orochimaru was using Naruto and team Kakashi to weaken Akatsuki and so on it doesn't surprise me that Obito and Madara were using each other or that Madara and Black Zetsu were using each other they are ninja using other as tool to achieve their own dreams has been a theme of the manga since Haku and Zabuza.
The first antagonist changes were okay (if exasperated) because the replacement was established. But these later antagonist changes are horrid, with little or no establishing being done prior. Hell Kaguya was only even mentioned less than a handful of times before the jump to antagonist. That's some seriously bad/lazy writing. Kinda mind blowing that this needs to be done in a manga that's so long too. But more than enough people are apologizing for him so he'll continue to do it.
Senjuubi Sage
Member
I agree. and nice sig
Plus BZ just basically made up konoha's history, Changed the stone, said Hago was an idiot, and isn't even a real person. just don't think this plot twist was necessary