Clarification on Kakashi caught in Water Prison in Zabuza arc

[Takos]

Many people say that Kakashi would have lost against Zabuza and that genins had to free him from it.
While it's true that Naruto and Sasuke helped Kakashi get out, it's absolutely wrong to say that Kakashi was done for the moment he was caught.

First of all, this Water Prison was different from the one used by Kisame in Part II. Let's compare them:

Zabuza's water prison allowed Kakashi to talk and did not make him lose his breath at all.

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Kisame's water prison, on the opposite, made the opponents lose their breaths:

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As we can see, in the fight against Zabuza, Kakashi could not drown due to Zabuza's Water Prison.

What does it mean? It means that Zabuza would have had to RELEASE Kakashi if he wanted to defeat him - the purpose of this Water Prison was only to immobilize him so that Zabuza could kill Tazuna easily.

Kakashi getting caught in Water Prison was therefore dangerous NOT TO HIM, but to TAZUNA AND TEAM 7 ONLY.

Below is a proof that getting caught in it did not mean Kakashi's defeat:

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"Now, Kakashi, we can finish things later" - this sentence obviously implies that Kakashi is not defeated yet.


Conclusion:
People should not say that he would have lost against Zabuza and a bunch of genins had to rescue Kakashi, because that's only partially true - Kakashi was never endangered, it's Team 7 and Tazuna who were. In a 1v1 scenario this would have never happened.

Fin. U_U

 

[apple pie of doom]

Kind of makes me wonder though.
Zabuza needs one hand to restrain kakashi.
Could'nt he just slice through his prison and kakashi with the other hand?

Zabuza has been shown to handle that blade with one hand effortlessly anyway.

 

[Rodukaime Namikaze]

I never paid attention to that. Or is Kakashi a fish!!!!!!!

 

[Takos]

Kind of makes me wonder though.
Zabuza needs one hand to restrain kakashi.
Could'nt he just slice through his prison and kakashi with the other hand?

Zabuza has been shown to handle that blade with one hand effortlessly anyway.

This was a "prison" after all, it was solid - solid from both sides. Just as Kakashi could not reach Zabuza from inside of the prison, in the same way Zabuza could not just slice Kakashi while having the prison active.

Sure, he could have turned off the prison but Kakashi could simply take advantage of this release.

 

[Uchiha Josephus]

Yeah pretty much.

You have earned some R E P

 

[apple pie of doom]

This was a "prison" after all, it was solid - solid from both sides. Just as Kakashi could not reach Zabuza from inside of the prison, in the same way Zabuza could not just slice Kakashi while having the prison active.

Sure, he could have turned off the prison but Kakashi could simply take advantage of this release.

Even if it was solid, Zabuza's sword can cut through quite a lot of things. Even rice paper.

On the other hand, makes me wonder why Kakashi did'nt just fire up a raikiri and cut through.

 

[Takos]

Even if it was solid, Zabuza's sword can cut through quite a lot of things. Even rice paper.

On the other hand, makes me wonder why Kakashi did'nt just fire up a raikiri and cut through.

Apparently, it was damn hard. Stated to be harder than steel by Zabuza, but we still don't know HOW MUCH harder. Raikiri might not have been enough and the blade definitely would not be enough.

 

[Shika88]

Well, was he really able to talk and breath? Were these not only thoughts?

And besides... this is plot... don't take a Manga of this size and complexity that empirical. If Kakashi would have had the strength he 's got now, he would have taken on even Oro. The manga would have been boring with a OP Kakashi in part 1.

 

[3MESSIAH]

i agree + rep

 

[Blaze Release]

Lmao to the max. So basically because kakashi talked but also held his breath long enough meant that there is a difference between kisame's technique and zabuza's. No offence but im laughing because this is new.

What if i said rock lee didnt talk, he shouted gai sensei

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This first throws out your first 'theory'. Just for the lolz;

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As for your later case for on the breath issue, its consistent with the jutsu. What isnt consistent is that different people would have different limits. By that i mean, how long a ninja can hold their breath differs. Ten ten stuggled because she isnt skilled in holding her breath for long;

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Its the same technique U_U

 

[Blaze Release]

LMFAO i cant believe the op is serious.

Why would zabuza have to open the prison to kill kakashi? lmfao because takos says so

I cant believe he said kisame's water prison makes the opponent lose their breath, like seriously?. That technique whether kisame's or zabuza's traps the opponent. It doesnt take an opponents air from them but rather its very simple, an opponent will run out of breath eventually because they are basically being drowned under water, it really isnt hard to understand. Ten ten just isnt as skilled as her team mates, lee and neji and that is why she struggled. Seriously this thread is absurd, i do however agree that kakashi having to protect genins is what allowed him to get into this situation in the first place, however zabuza at the same time outsmarted him

 

[Takos]

I cant believe he said kisame's water prison makes the opponent lose their breath, like seriously?. That technique whether kisame's or zabuza's traps the opponent. It doesnt take an opponents air from them but rather its very simple, an opponent will run out of breath eventually because they are basically being drowned under water, it really isnt hard to understand. Ten ten just isnt as skilled as her team mates, lee and neji and that is why she struggled. Seriously this thread is absurd, i do however agree that kakashi having to protect genins is what allowed him to get into this situation in the first place, however zabuza at the same time outsmarted him

I gave the page proving that Kisame's made the opponent lose their breath. Too bad if you don't want to believe it. Narutopedia also confirms this (and just for the sake of it, I checked Narutopedia AFTER creating this thread )

Unless you want to say that Kakashi did not care about losing breath and was eager to tell an article long story about Zabuza's early years of life while being UNDERWATER - which would mean he told the story on one breath.
Somehow, I don't believe it. :|

LMFAO i cant believe the op is serious.

Why would zabuza have to open the prison to kill kakashi? lmfao because takos says so

Maybe because he has no known way of killing Kakashi while he's in Water Prison? naah, that's certainly not it. xd

 

[Blaze Release]

I gave the page proving that Kisame's made the opponent lose their breath. Too bad if you don't want to believe it. Narutopedia also confirms this (and just for the sake of it, I checked Narutopedia AFTER creating this thread )

Unless you want to say that Kakashi did not care about losing breath and was eager to tell an article long story about Zabuza's early years of life.

Lmao and even cling onto narutopedia yet the db doesnt state this. Its not very hard to understand that its basically drowning your opponent, therefore they will eventually struggle for air. Kakashi however seems to have great skill with his breathing, but eventually even he wouldve run out, unless you are basically saying that kakashi can now breath under water. Ive nothing more to say in this thread. Such ridiculous nonsense

 

[Kurama2012]

lightning blade will solve everything and kishi just wanted to show narutos growth

 

[Takos]

Lmao and even cling onto narutopedia yet the db doesnt state this. Its not very hard to understand that its basically drowning your opponent, therefore they will eventually struggle for air. Kakashi however seems to have great skill with his breathing, but eventually even he wouldve run out, unless you are basically saying that kakashi can now breath under water. Ive nothing more to say in this thread. Such ridiculous nonsense

I went for the trouble to write everything Kakashi said while being in Water Prison:

"You guys!!! Take Tazuna-san and run away!!! You have no chance of beating him!! As long as he's keeping me trapped in this prison, he can't move. The water clone cannot go very far from his real body. Just ran away now!!! No!! Don't!! What are you doing?!! Run away!!! This fight was over the moment I was caught!! Our duty is to protect Tazuna-san!! Did you forget that?!! Devil... Zabuza... Long ago, in the Hidden Mist village, also called the Blood Mist village there was a final obstacle in becoming a ninja. 10 years ago, the Hidden Mist graduation exam was forced to change. This change came after the previous year when a devil appeared. Without pause or hesitation a young boy who was not even a ninja had killed over a hundred of the students."

And you're telling me that he did this on one breath...? Even if he somehow could do it, it would be dumb to tell unnecessary stories while not knowing how much longer you'll be kept WITHOUT BREATH. And Kakashi is anything but dumb. Telling his team to get the hell out of here? Yeah, that might have been necessary. Telling of Zabuza's childhood? Not.

You should also note the exclamation marks - Kakashi was not whispering - he was SHOUTING.

I respect you, Blaze Release, so don't be ignorant when it's obvious Kakashi had breath.

 

[Blaze Release]

I went for the trouble to write everything Kakashi said while being in Water Prison:



And you're telling me that he did this on one breath...? Even if he somehow could do it, it would be dumb to tell an unnecessary stories while not knowing how much longer you'll be kept WITHOUT BREATH.

You should also note the exclamation marks - Kakashi was not whispering - he was SHOUTING.

I'm respecting you, Blaze Release, so don't be ignorant when it's obvious Kakashi had breath.

Ill make it crystal clear starting with where you got this idea. What you fail to grasp is that narutopedia talked about the ability to talk and linked it with kakashi and zabuza and team gai. However it failed to realise that lee shouted when in this technique when. It also failed to realise that it was used against yamato, naruto, bee, gai and they were all talking inside this technique.

Next is that the DB disagree's with the nonsense on narutopedia but also narutopedia itself isnt sure of what they were saying and that is why they used

"When Zabuza used this technique on Kakashi Hatake he was still able to talk inside the prison.[5][6] Though when used by Kisame, Team Guy was greatly restricted.[7] This may mean that there are aspects of this technique that the user can control."

They themselves arent sure, but also they failed to realise lee shouting and gai, yamato and co talking,, something that narutopedia didnt realise. Tbh im nto sure why folks depend on narutopedia. A couple of months ago it had tobi as madara, etc. The people who write it arent any better than us and do not have any more info than we do.

Secondly ill what you fail to get is that kakashi talking for this long whilst inside the prison is because its a manga. Heck, gai, yamato, bee all talking when under water isnt possible, yet it happened. Itachi shotting black flames from his eyes isnt possible yet it happened, Just because kakashi was able to do this is because its an anime, but also he has great breathing skill.

Just to entertain your idea, lets assume that kisame's technique takes away the opponents breath therefore they drown quicker, (isnt true though because only ten ten suffered this). Even if zabuza's technique doesnt have this ability, kakashi wouldve eventually drowned simply because in the end, he will run out of breath because the air in his lungs are done. He cannot breathe under water and he himself acknowledged that once he was trapped that was it for him.

Now im really done. Its ps3 time. Keep thinking kakashi has an infinite amount of breath or he can breathe under water though :scorps:

 

[Hmph]

Great thread, I agree.

We see how a one vs one battle panned out the next time they fought; Kakashi showed the true extent of his powers and won convincingly. Even after escaping the water prison he defeated Zabuza.

 

[TurrinB]

Kakashi could have also cut himself free with Rarikiri.

 

[Takos]

Ill make it crystal clear starting with where you got this idea. What you fail to grasp is that narutopedia talked about the ability to talk and linked it with kakashi and zabuza and team gai. However it failed to realise that lee shouted when in this technique when. It also failed to realise that it was used against yamato, naruto, bee, gai and they were all talking inside this technique.

Next is that the DB disagree's with the nonsense on narutopedia but also narutopedia itself isnt sure of what they were saying and that is why they used

"When Zabuza used this technique on Kakashi Hatake he was still able to talk inside the prison.[5][6] Though when used by Kisame, Team Guy was greatly restricted.[7] This may mean that there are aspects of this technique that the user can control."

They themselves arent sure, but also they failed to realise lee shouting and gai, yamato and co talking,, something that narutopedia didnt realise. Tbh im nto sure why folks depend on narutopedia. A couple of months ago it had tobi as madara, etc. The people who write it arent any better than us and do not have any more info than we do.

Secondly ill what you fail to get is that kakashi talking for this long whilst inside the prison is because its a manga. Heck, gai, yamato, bee all talking when under water isnt possible, yet it happened. Itachi shotting black flames from his eyes isnt possible yet it happened, Just because kakashi was able to do this is because its an anime, but also he has great breathing skill.

Just to entertain your idea, lets assume that kisame's technique takes away the opponents breath therefore they drown quicker, (isnt true though because only ten ten suffered this). Even if zabuza's technique doesnt have this ability, kakashi wouldve eventually drowned simply because in the end, he will run out of breath because the air in his lungs are done. He cannot breathe under water and he himself acknowledged that once he was trapped that was it for him.

Now im really done. Its ps3 time. Keep thinking kakashi has an infinite amount of breath or he can breathe under water though :scorps:

It's very convenient to just say "Kakashi could do it because it's a manga".
The fact remains that on both occassions of Kisame using Water Prison, a trapped person was shown to be struggling. In Guy VS Kisame fight Tenten was clearly shown to lack breath and in case of a trap Water Prison Guy started choking as well as soon as he fell for it.
The fact also remains that none of them said as much as Kakashi - who, as I said, would not be so dumb to speak unnecessary stories while knowing he might run out of breath. Explaining it with "it's a manga" is just a dull excuse.

 

[SO6PNARUTO]

Your sig means nothing Obito did not kill Minato Minato Sacraficed himself get it right dude