Chapter 620- Tobirama bumped up to 2nd most powerful Hokage, Hiruzen 4th at best

[HadouKage]

When talking about a character with no feats you use character statments, common logic. If you are expecting to see manga feats of Prime Hiruzen then leave now.

Only someone who truly can't understand the manga would think Tsunade can beat Prime Hiruzen, when Old Hiruzen was stated to be on par with Orochimaru.

Like I said, it only takes half a brain to understand this, but of course there will always be those who disregard manga statements since they foil their beliefs.

@Bold
So I haven't seen Kakashi use a thousand jutsu, am I suppose to assume he can do it?
That's bull to the max as characters usually state opinions as we know manga facts > Char's opinion and chars opinion = opinion
That's dumb logic to go by

 

[KidGamer65]

Problems? What problems exactly? Healing from a C rank Katon? Dealing with Enma? Outlasting him?
Yes, Hiruzen was the God of Shinobi, but with his arsenal he can't KILL Tsunade. Btw, the Prime Hiruzen can't use the Shikki Fuuin. And thats the only way he can deal with Tsunade.

And if you accept his hype, then you should accept Tsunade's hype too: She stated she won't die in a battle as long as her seal is active and she has chakra.

:sy: You obviously can't read. Old Hiruzen is on par with Orochimaru who is above Tsunade, Prime Hiruzen is leagues above Old Hiruzen thus he is stronger than Tsunade. Someone who isn't on the same tier as another person who is above the 3rd person, cant be weaker than the 3rd person.

Why accept hype that is known to be faceless and untrue, since there ways to kill her regardless of Byakugo. Her hype is invalid. Not to mention she's the one who hyped herself so it doesn't count as credible hype, if it counts as hype at all.

 

[Slug Princess Tsunade]

:sy: You obviously can't read. Old Hiruzen is on par with Orochimaru who is above Tsunade, Prime Hiruzen is leagues above Old Hiruzen thus he is stronger than Tsunade. Someone who isn't on the same tier as another person who is above the 3rd person, cant be weaker than the 3rd person.

Why accept hype that is known to be faceless and untrue, since there ways to kill her regardless of Byakugo. Her hype is invalid. Not to mention she's the one who hyped herself so it doesn't count as credible hype, if it counts as hype at all.

So you accept Hiruzen's hype but you don't accept her hype? (which was stated by Iruka and not by Hiruzen himself )
Well, I'm done with you.

 

[KidGamer65]

@Bold
So I haven't seen Kakashi use a thousand jutsu, am I suppose to assume he can do it?
That's bull to the max as characters usually state opinions as we know manga facts > Char's opinion and chars opinion = opinion
That's dumb logic to go by

Manga stated Kakashi can use 1000 jutsu so he can do it, saying he can't is denying the words Kishimoto put in his manga thus you are wrong no matter what you say.

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" Get that through your head. You think cause you haven't seen it, that it is automatically false, THAT is dumb logic to go by.

 

[KidGamer65]

So you accept Hiruzen's hype but you don't accept her hype? (which was stated by Iruka and not by Hiruzen himself )
Well, I'm done with you.

Hiruzen's hype is him being God of Shinobi, which was stated by Oro, his student, not Iruka. Learn2Read the manga, it will help you not to make a fool of yourself.

Why would anything that comes out of his mouth be more credible then from an outside source? Are reading the crap you type before you post it?

Tsunade's hype is obviously BS and anyone who truly believes it is true is delusional.

 

[HadouKage]

Manga stated Kakashi can use 1000 jutsu so he can do it, saying he can't is denying the words Kishimoto put in his manga thus you are wrong no matter what you say.

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" Get that through your head. You think cause you haven't seen it, that it is automatically false, THAT is dumb logic to go by.

:sy: You obviously can't read. Old Hiruzen is on par with Orochimaru who is above Tsunade, Prime Hiruzen is leagues above Old Hiruzen thus he is stronger than Tsunade. Someone who isn't on the same tier as another person who is above the 3rd person, cant be weaker than the 3rd person.

Why accept hype that is known to be faceless and untrue, since there ways to kill her regardless of Byakugo. Her hype is invalid. Not to mention she's the one who hyped herself so it doesn't count as credible hype, if it counts as hype at all.

And Kishi has also stated things that have been contradicted, such as Hiruzen's "God of Shinobi"
What your doing is using A > B > C logic which we all know is not credible in the Narutoverse

 

[KidGamer65]

And Kishi has also stated things that have been contradicted, such as Hiruzen's "God of Shinobi"
What your doing is using A > B > C logic which we all know is not credible in the Narutoverse

Hiruzen's God of Shinobi hype has NEVER been contradicted. Someone else being called God of Shinobi doesn't invalidate Hiruzen's hype, especially when they come from different eras. I'd like to see scans of his hype being contradicted, though I know for s 100% fact you can't provide what doesn't exist.

I knew someone would come here crying about A>B>C logic.

When A is tiers apart from B but C is on the same tier as B, A being better than one of them means that he is stronger than the other.

KM Naruto,EMS Sasuke and EMS Madara.

KM Naruto and EMS Sasuke are equal, if Madara is tiers apart from Naruto do you think he'll be weaker than Sasuke? Obviously not.

 

[Naruto9001]

Prime Hiruzen>Tsunade. She would have problems with Old Hiruzen let alone Prime Hiruzen who is MUCH MUCH stronger than Tsunade.

So no Tsunade is the weakest.

No Tobirama is the weakest hokage since we dont know anything about him.

 

[KidGamer65]

No Tobirama is the weakest hokage since we dont know anything about him.

Dumb logic, just because you don't know anything about someone doesn't mean their weak. If you were reading today's chapter it would be pretty clear Tobirama is better than Tsunade.

 

[Naruto9001]

Dumb logic, just because you don't know anything about someone doesn't mean their weak. If you were reading today's chapter it would be pretty clear Tobirama is better than Tsunade.

That's true but you cant make assumptions about a character's power level so we have to go on what feats he has performed or what his been hyped to do. Tobirama has no feats but making water with no water source around something that Kisame and Darui [who dosen't even have a suiton affinity] did. Getting his legs blown and sealed by a nearly 70 year old Hiruzen.


Now as far as his hype goes his been hyped to have created edo tensei which is useless because we dont know what edos he can summon and how strong they are because Kabuto said that Orochimaru was the first one to perfect and even he couldn't summon them at full power hence Tobirama's statement of them being at virtually full power this time.


I read this chapter im still not convinced he can beat Tsunade if your talking about the walls cracking from his chakra than it's clear as day that that was Hashirama who made the cracks.

 

[KidGamer65]

That's true but you cant make assumptions about a character's power level so we have to go on what feats he has performed or what his been hyped to do. Tobirama has no feats but making water with no water source around something that Kisame and Darui [who dosen't even have a suiton affinity] did. Getting his legs blown and sealed by a nearly 70 year old Hiruzen.


Now as far as his hype goes his been hyped to have created edo tensei which is useless because we dont know what edos he can summon and how strong they are because Kabuto said that Orochimaru was the first one to perfect and even he couldn't summon them at full power hence Tobirama's statement of them being at virtually full power this time.


I read this chapter im still not convinced he can beat Tsunade if your talking about the walls cracking from his chakra than it's clear as day that that was Hashirama who made the cracks.

I know that Hashirama caused the walls to break down, manga clearly portrays Tobirama as a stronger Shinobi than Tsunade.

-He was hailed as one of the most strongest shinobi being only second to Hashirama until he died, making him the strongest thus he became Hokage. I'm pretty sure someone only second to Hashirama isn't going to be weaker than Tsunade, who is leagues below Hashirama.

 

[shelke]

@Kidgamer Tobirama probably appointed himself as hokage, as he's the one who came up with a lot of organizational policies. Also, Madara was dead, Hashirama was either dead or too old, hence to carry on his legacy, he was appointed or appointed himself as a hokage. This doesn't make him stronger than Tsunade. There is no proof for that. I am not saying your logic is incorrect, but Tsunade has also been called the more powerful female ninja. She has massive chakra reserves and keep that in mind, that she's also 'past' her prime. Just because she uses a jutsu to look young, doesn't mean she is young.

 

[RicardoA]

Tobirama just cracked a wall, wtf!? :| He did nothing for us to presume that he's the strongest after Hashi. He has strong chakra, so what? Its not like he showed a jutsu able to defeat the 5 current kage alone or something. When Kishi decides to give time to Hiruzen and Minato (specially Hiruzen, since many started to underrate him because of his reactions to Hashi powering up) to talk and later show their full strenght i'm sure Tobirama will be nothing new again. U_U

 

[~Naruto&Itachi~]

Ok so he almost broke of a jutsu he created....what's the big deal??? He created it so he has to know the weak point of it since smart people always watch out for weaknesses....and about him breaking the wall well Hashi cracked the wall with just his chakra and eventhe weakest hokage(tsunade) can do that so him cracking the wall is no big deal....here is my hokage order in strength...
1st
4th
2nd
3rd
And than 5th

 

[tracytracy22]

Healing from a C rank Katon?

First of all, it was B rank.

Secondly, rank is to do with the difficulty of executing a jutsu, not its power! When will people get it right!

 

[Owarij]

Wait? what exactly did tobirama do that increased his rank in anyway? proclaim he's about to break a jutsu only to look like a fool afterwards?

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

and despite all this he got trashed by kinkaku and ginkaku with implied low diff.

Hey I bet this ST technique is why they call him the God of Shinobi and not Hashirama right, or maybe why Tobirama made Edo Tensei his bitch and Hashirama didn't? HAHAHAshirama solos 20 Tobiramas effortlessly lololol gg

battles dont only use raw power. tobirama was controlled and hashirmaa wasnt because oro's body is comprised of a hashirmaa clone. obviously original > a clone

If you think that someone like Tsunade stands a chance against Prime Hiruzen, a God of Shinobi then you are clearly a delusional fanboy. Anyone who understands the manga correctly knows Tsunade is the weakest by far.

prime hiruzen has not fought anyone. all we know is he was tough. but tsunade cant be damaged in battle as long as her regen is active. how does hiruzen outlast her. even onoki was more impressive as an old man

Called God of Shinobi due to his strength.
-Called the professor due to his mastery of jutsu.
-Even in his old age, DB stated that him and Orochimaru were on par.
-Old Hiruzen is miserable when compared to his Prime.

he still has yet to show a jutsu that cna put her down. being equal to oro in stats doesnt mean anything. and god of shinobi is just a title. show me the feats

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

He was hailed as one of the most strongest shinobi being only second to Hashirama until he died

since when? dan said the only person on madara's level was hashirama

If you were reading today's chapter it would be pretty clear Tobirama is better than Tsunade.

in what way? whats he shown that can put her down permanently?