Chakra, Ki and reiatsu

[Wolfus]

Hi guys. I'm going to discuss about the conditions of the hypothetical fights between different universes related to the energy systems(such as Ki, reiatsu and chakra)

Energy systems
I'd like to discuss about energy measures. What exactly are them?
In many mangas there are different forms used to name and to measure the amount of energy in character. Some are very simple(like KI in db/dbz), some are more developed(chakra in naruto), and some works in different ways, with other kinds of "consequences"(like reiastsu, in bleach).

Well, it's obvious that they hold similarities, but we can't say they are the exact same thing, because there are some differences which are important. So, one could say that ichigo would easily beat goku and naruto in a fight, as they don't have reiatsu, and ichigo has a powerful reiatsu, for exemple.

However, the ideal way to make a hypothetical fight is to use a hypothetical universe in which these energy measures are the same thing. Why is that? Because with this, we would be analysing the fight with all the chars using their full potential, there would be no obstacle that would give any of the chars some kind of advantage.
In this way, the result of the fights will be based on the chars' feats and skills, the fight would me more fair.

Having/not having chakra/reiatsu/ki isn't an "ability", it's just the energy system used in that universe. They have it simply because they belong to that universe.
So, basically, a factor like this, that is related only to a system used in an specific universe, and thus, is not an ability of the char, shouldn't limit the actual abilities of the other chars.
Having an advantage like that in a battle doesn't fit the concept we're trying to analyse, that is who would be more powerful and so, who would win.

 

[Jobrjo]

I agree with you, and say the same in my debates

 

[Young Thug]

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[Punk Hazard]

I disagree. One of the best things about debating characters from separate universes is taking consideration how they're abilities are different but interact with each other. It makes these types of debates unique and harder, and more interesting.If there's a universe where the characters can only be harmed by a particular energy in their universe, like Bleach, then don't use that universe. Simple as that.

 

[Gerkak]

I agree with you.

 

[Wolfus]

I disagree. One of the best things about debating characters from separate universes is taking consideration how they're abilities are different but interact with each other. It makes these types of debates unique and harder, and more interesting.If there's a universe where the characters can only be harmed by a particular energy in their universe, like Bleach, then don't use that universe. Simple as that.

I disagree. The point of trying to find the possible result of an hypothetical battle is to analyse the characters' skills, abilities and powers and compare these characteristics to see which one would be "the strongest/more powerful". To be able to do that, we have to consider all of char's abilities and see how would they affect the oponnent and vice versa.

It's a similar quetion to "how powerful would ichigo be if he were in NV". But considering this is a battle, we would like to see how both chars would do if they met each other. So, we put them in a hypothetical universe that equals their rules, such as the energy systems.

Otherwise, we wouldn't be fully analysing and comparing their abilities, as we would be giving one of the chars an advantage(just as ichigo crushing everyone, as well as naruto chars not being able to use genjutsu because the opponentt doesn't have chakra). T
And therefore, we would be missing the point.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I disagree. The point of trying to find the possible result of an hypothetical battle is to analyse the characters' skills, abilities and powers and compare these characteristics to see which one would be "the strongest/more powerful". To be able to do that, we have to consider all of char's abilities and see how would they affect the oponnent and vice versa.

It's a similar quetion to "how powerful would ichigo be if he were in NV". But considering this is a battle, we would like to see how both chars would do if they met each other. So, we put them in a hypothetical universe that equals their rules, such as the energy systems.

Otherwise, we wouldn't be fully analysing and comparing their abilities, as we would be giving one of the chars an advantage(just as ichigo crushing everyone, as well as naruto chars not being able to use genjutsu because the opponentt doesn't have chakra). T
And therefore, we would be missing the point.

@Bold: Exactly what I'm saying. In order to see how a character's power from one universe affects another, we have to consider them as separate, different things. For example, to "see how chakra-based Genjutsu affects Goku", we hold them as separate things, and we determine that it doesn't affect Goku.

 

[Wolfus]

@Bold: Exactly what I'm saying. In order to see how a character's power from one universe affects another, we have to consider them as separate, different things. For example, to "see how chakra-based Genjutsu affects Goku", we hold them as separate things, and we determine that it doesn't affect Goku.

But that will give goku an advantage in the battle. Having/not having chakra/reiatsu isn't an "ability", it's just the energy system used in that universe. Having an advantage like that in a battle doesn't fit the concept we're trying to analyse, that is who would be more powerful and so, who would win.
Just like I said "how powerful would ichigo be in NV". He is in NV, so he is set by the rules/logic of that universe, and thus, having chakra instead of reiatsu.
In order to achieve a fair analysis, we place them in a hypothetical universe, that holds the same energy system for all of them. The best thing to do.

 

[Ahmed1993]

Why didn't you talk about Nen ?
Also no i disagree with you , in a cross over battle either give each verse its power or leave it as that.

 

[Ahmed1993]

But that will give goku an advantage in the battle. Having/not having chakra/reiatsu isn't an "ability", it's just the energy system used in that universe. Having an advantage like that in a battle doesn't fit the concept we're trying to analyse, that is who would be more powerful and so, who would win.
Just like I said "how powerful would ichigo be in NV". He is in NV, so he is set by the rules/logic of that universe, and thus, having chakra instead of reiatsu.
In order to achieve a fair analysis, we place them in a hypothetical universe, that holds the same energy system for all of them. The best thing to do.

And making the energy system the same would give a disadvantage to Goku against Rinnegan users who can absorb chakra.
Making the energy system the same would benefit some and disadvantage some.

 

[Punk Hazard]

But that will give goku an advantage in the battle. Having/not having chakra/reiatsu isn't an "ability", it's just the energy system used in that universe. Having an advantage like that in a battle doesn't fit the concept we're trying to analyse, that is who would be more powerful and so, who would win.
Just like I said "how powerful would ichigo be in NV". He is in NV, so he is set by the rules/logic of that universe, and thus, having chakra instead of reiatsu.
In order to achieve a fair analysis, we place them in a hypothetical universe, that holds the same energy system for all of them. The best thing to do.

And that never happens in in-universe battles? Characters have advantages over each other all the time. Why is out-of-universe battles any different?

 

[Wolfus]

Why didn't you talk about Nen ?
Also no i disagree with you , in a cross over battle either give each verse its power or leave it as that.

What/who is nen?

In a cross ove battle, we give the chars full acess to their abilities without any kind of restriction/advantage.

 

[Wolfus]

suck ****

And that never happens in in-universe battles? Characters have advantages over each other all the time. Why is out-of-universe battles any different?

In the same universe, they aren't given advantages? It's their ability in that universe that gives them the upper hand.

As I said, being in that universe, and thus having the energy system applied to that universe isn't an ability. So, in a out of univer battle, we shouldn't consider any kind of advantage/restriction given simply by the absence or possention of that kind of energy.

 

[Ahmed1993]

What/who is nen?

In a cross ove battle, we give the chars full acess to their abilities without any kind of restriction/advantage.

So you don't know HxH ?

No , your same energy concept would benefit some and disadvantage some , so leave it as that.

 

[Punk Hazard]

In the same universe, they aren't given advantages? It's their ability in that universe that gives them the upper hand.

As I said, being in that universe, and thus having the energy system applied to that universe isn't an ability. So, in a out of univer battle, we shouldn't consider any kind of advantage/restriction given simply by the absence or possention of that kind of energy.

And it's inability that gives out of universe characters this advantage. Deal with it.

 

[Wolfus]

And it's inability that gives out of universe characters this advantage. Deal with it.

As I said, having a kind of energy simply by belonging to that universe is not an ability.

 

[Wolfus]

So you don't know HxH ?

No , your same energy concept would benefit some and disadvantage some , so leave it as that.

I've heard of it, but I'be never watched it.

The energy concept don't take away any ability of the chairs. It allows them to use all their abilities to a full extent. That's how a battle should go.

 

[Punk Hazard]

As I said, having a kind of energy simply by belonging to that universe is not an ability.

That...doesn't matter. At all

 

[Ahmed1993]

I've heard of it, but I'be never watched it.

The energy concept don't take away any ability of the chairs. It allows them to use all their abilities to a full extent. That's how a battle should go.

You should watch it , its really something else.

Take Goku and Naruto characters as an example:
Same energy concept would negate all of Goku's attack ( Energy absorption via Rinnegan or Mokuton or whatever ).
Not to mention Genjutsu.

In other words , your same energy concept doesn't resolve anything , so you should leave it as that. ( it's called a cross over battle for a reason )

 

[Wolfus]

That...doesn't matter. At all

Yeah...it matters. I was relating the explanation to the the abilities of characters. As I explained, that's not an ability, so it wouldn't be fair for it to give an advantage in a a battle, considering that you're analysing and comparing the chars' skills, powers and abilities.