[Discussion] Can Whitebeard beat Mihawk?
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Punk Hazard
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1. It was a rhetorical question. You're not supposed to answer because there is only one answer, though you gave it anyway. Because of plot. Because WB had Oda's protection. Because where Oda wanted the story to go meant WB couldn't die at that moment. It's the same reason Kizaru shot Luffy in the stomach and shot the key to Ace's cuffs instead of shooting Luffy in the head. It's the same reason Akainu let Kizaru merely kick Luffy away, instead of covering him in magma when he got past them. Because, in the manga, there are moments where a character can't die because the plot demands it.
Versus matches don't offer that benefit. In a VS match, there is no protection of a character because that's what Oda needs for the plot. In a VS match, Kizaru aims for the head, not the stomach and chest or an item you're holding. In a VS match, there is no Oda. All there is in a VS match is can this character kill the other.
2. And yes, I'm saying that WB couldn't have deflected those meteors. Yes, I'm saying that Whitebeard, at that moment, could not do what Law and Doflamingo could do. Key words are at that moment. At that moment, WB was incapacitated. He was in the middle of a heart attack.
Look at what was happening just prior. He and Akainu were both getting nowhere as they threw attacks back and forth. Akainu threw magma at Whitebeard, and Whitebeard just deflected it without problem. Then Whitebeard gets a heart attack, and Akainu is able to land a direct, clean blow with no opposition or resistance from Whitebeard. Know what that means? It's a contrast of WB's abilities. He couldn't do, during his heart attack, what he could have done beforehand. So yes, while WB is collapsing to one knee, riddled with pain and coughing up blood because his body is too sick, he becomes unable to do what Law and Doflamingo could do. Why? Because it's a special circumstance where WB becomes unable to perform as he should be able to while he's healthy.
TRE MERCER
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I believe it's about match ups and by that im going to say one slice from Mihawk should clever right through WB and one punch from WB should kill or completely knock Mihawk out.
Why do people assume this was Mihawk strongest slice. He replicated this slice on Luffy and Vista who casually swatted it away as well. I think it's pretty much confirmed that that wasn't his greatest slice.
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No. You're wrong.
Being the WSS means you are only the strongest at fighting with a sword. It does not mean that you are stronger than anyone who has a sword.
If Shanks and Mihawk agree to fight with only swords then according to the manga, Mihawk should be better and win.
If you yourself even admit, that maybe Shanks can be physically faster than Mihawk.. then in that scenario, nothing stops Shanks from blitzing Mihawk and shooting him in the head. "But Mihawk can beat anyone with a sword"... well say that to the dead Mihawk with a bullet in his head.
And no.. you're wrong again.. your comparison at the end can only be similar to mine, if you said to take away both Lucci's DF AND Kaku's DF... I clearly said, if both Mihawk and Shanks were in a fight but neither had a sword, would you give the win to Mihawk simply because of his title? Even though the title means nothing without his sword..
What you don't understand is that the WSS title doesn't guarantee him the win against anyone who has a sword. It can however, guarantee him the win if it is a fight using only swords.
That is the catch.
And that is what will be a key factor for having Shanks be stronger than Mihawk in the story.
HashiraMadara
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English :sdo:
Swordsman = A person who fights/uses a sword :sdo:
Shanks never engaged action before without using or withdrawing his sword :sdo:
So by logic and conclusion anyone who is deemed a swordsman(Shiryu, Shanks, Issho, Vista, Rayleigh etc.) These are swordsman :sdo: and you know who is the strongest amongst them :|
They never said "The strongest man using a sword" they just said "the world's strongest swordsman".
Learn how to read.
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We've never seen Shanks go all out.. do you honestly think that all he can do is use that sword?
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We know he's a haki beast...
In a sword fight Mihawk can win against all those people you mentioned or he will at least have the "strongest" swordsmanship out of all of them.. as his title suggests.. that does not mean, however, in an all out fight he is guaranteed the win.
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Fujitora can defeat him with his DF powers perhaps.. other characters can win by other means as well..
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Mihawk's title only refers to the use of the sword.. not anything else.. like haki, fists, guns, DF's, etc. etc.
That's what the WSS TITLE MEANS.. you even said it yourself.. look at these sentences and tell me what you see..
Lmfao! English please.
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Punk Hazard
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TIL "Rob Lucci is the strongest CP9 agent"=Rob Lucci is the strongest at CP9 shit, not the strongest in CP9 overall.
I think you still have to quote me where I said that it is the same as taking away Mihawk's sword because you just pulled that out of your ass to ignore all the arguments.
So I'll just repeat it since you're still talking the same nonsens.
Being the strongest swordsman only guarantees you to be the number one guy in swordplay and sword fights.
A 1 on 1 with anyone wielding a sword and Mihawk would 'win' the sword fight, doesn't mean he would win the entire fight.
Like I said Mihawk can be a better swordsman than Shanks is technically, but if Shanks has way better speed he has other options to beat him, or superior haki, or a gun, rokushiki or whatever.
You're just too small minded to think of any of any other possibilities, sword fight is sword fight in your book, but that is bullshit. Mihawk is not automatically stronger than everybody who carries a sword. He is only better at fighting with a sword.
It's like saying Foxy is the world's strongest boxer, he would win every boxing match on points but someone can still knock him out if you don't treat it like a boxing match.
Idk what you're talking about at all..
I know you can't reply to my post quoting you, with a legit rebuttal, because it was 100% facts.. but I'll entertain this... a sword is a sword. It's one weapon.. how that compares to CP9 and everything else you said, is beyond me.
Fact still stands - Mihawk's title is for swordsmanship only. If another swordsman has other means of attack, and has tricks up his sleeve, Mihawk can very much so be defeated.
Punk Hazard
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If you say Mihawk being the WSS means he can only defeat people when it comes to swordplay, then Rob Lucci being the strongest CP9 agent only means he can beat people at CP9 techniques, right?
A sword is a style of combat. CP9 is centered around espionage and a form of combat(before it leaked to Marines). Therefore, Rob Lucci is only the best at utilizing these things, not the best overall, according to your logic /::::
Punk Hazard
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See, the ironic thing is, you're also being close-minded. You think that Shanks having something other than a sword is a guarantee to beat Mihawk. You and LBeezy keep saying stuff like "What if Shanks pulls out a gun, what if Shanks is faster, what if Shanks has stronger Haki."
So yeah, let's say Shanks has superior speed so he can blitz Mihawk with a bullet to the head. And what's stopping one from saying that, in this scenario, Mihawk has faster reaction speeds and harder Busoshoku Haki so he can coat his head before the bullet hits and stop it from every piercing through?
Okay, Shanks is physically stronger is the new scenario. And what's stopping someone from saying that Mihawk is faster, so Shanks won't be able to hit as many blows as you think? Or Mihawk's Hak is so hard, he can tank most of Shanks attacks long enough to strike him down for the count. Or his endurance is just so high, he can take the blows and fight on anyways.
For every "What if Shanks does" scenario, someone can give one right back for Mihawk to fit their parameters of World's Strongest Swordsman. You guys aren't giving any facts, you're just giving hypothetical scenarios that can be adjusted any which way, and you'll never be right or wrong cuz now you're arguing made up shit. "What if Shanks can do, what if Mihawk does in response," none of what's being said right now is rooted in the manga and is pure imagination.
chopstickchakra
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No one's said(That I've seen anyway) that Mihawk can ONLY beat people while they're using a sword. We're(I'm) saying there could be sword users who have alternate methods of fighting that could beat Mihawks sword skills. The two aren't the same.
What's stopping someone who could counter a mountain busting sword strike of X speed from doing the same with a punch of the same speed and power? I don't understand why people act as if swordsman aren't capable of fighting anything other than swordsmanship. How do you guys think Zoro will become the WSS? It's by defeating Mihawk or by proving himself to be superior to Mihawk. It doesn't matter if it'll be because he will have better COA/better COO/better COC/better reactions/better endurance/better physical strength/better speed/better swords; It could be because he could swing swords better for all I care, at the end of the day, what matters the most is whether or not he will be overall superior to Mihawk.
OT: If Mihawk is really as strong as his hype suggests him to be, MF Whitebeard wouldn't be able to defeat Mihawk. He couldn't fight properly back at MF, All MF Whitebeard could do is to spam GGnM punches all over the place. He will be able to stall Mihawk for a while, the same way he did with Akainu and eventually lose. I think Rayleigh or Garp would be harder to defeat than MF Whitebeard. This applies to any other top tier, not just Mihawk.
OT: If Mihawk is really as strong as his hype suggests him to be, MF Whitebeard wouldn't be able to defeat Mihawk. He couldn't fight properly back at MF, All MF Whitebeard could do is to spam GGnM punches all over the place. He will be able to stall Mihawk for a while, the same way he did with Akainu and eventually lose. I think Rayleigh or Garp would be harder to defeat than MF Whitebeard. This applies to any other top tier, not just Mihawk.
HashiraMadara
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Lame f*cking Lame :sdo: You speak as if Mihawk never fought anything other than a swordsman, you even be like ["Fuji > Him "devil fruit", Shanks haki beasts, others by their means] HOLY F*CKING SHIT :| <== with this logic he is a sitting dummy to anyone with something other than a sword :sdo: Yet he's the man without scars and has never been defeated on screen/manga. I mean Bruh defeated Zorro with a pedant knife, meaning anything on him is a useful weapon when the time comes :|
Nah anyone who uses a sword as a primary weapon is a swordsman. Rayleigh is a "haki" beast yet his primary weapon is immediately a sword :sdo: that's why he is called a swordsman :sdo: Zoro's end parallel to Roger's Pirates
So anyone who uses a sword primarily << Mihawk according to Oda :|
No you dunce, I know it is a what if situation and I do it on purpose because everyone riding Mihawks **** here is saying that he will beat everyone who is a swordsman.
I just show that there are a thousand ways for another swordsman to beat Mihawk without having to beat him in swordsmanship.
really shouldn't be that hard to comprehend.
Punk Hazard
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What's the point when someone can imagine their own scenario that's just as fake as yours to show why no swordsman can beat Mihawk even with non-swordplay tactics? This argument is nothing more than "My imagination is better than yours" now.
HashiraMadara
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WTF????(Your Logic) lmao it's exactly the same thing. Mihawk is just a sitting dummy to any swordsman with extra tricks... When I ask why Shanks hasn't defeated him, you will come with off manga excuse about Shanks's nature and how he is not into "WSS" hype tec.
If he is that type of person dafuq why is he a YONKO in the first place :| something more hyped than WSS
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Outside The Topic
2ndly stop Using Yonko's screw as a Yonko's individual strength. The 4 strongest pirates in the world notion is not for individual power but political, land power, manpower, equipment etc.
Dude you're seriously retarded, if you didn't understood the last post I can't do a better job of explaining it to you.
It has nothing to do with imagination, there ARE multiple ways to beat Mihawk. And this doesn't just apply to Shanks but to every swordsman. If you can't beat Mihawk at his own game you have to change the tactics.
There is no use in sticking to a swordfight against Mihawk. You can't just say Mihawk > every other swordsman. He would win in a duel of swordsmanship but you can still beat him with devil fruits, haki, other weapons, speed, power.
Those things don't just exist in my imagination, they exist in One Piece too.
chopstickchakra
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No they aren't the same. Mihawk can beat plenty of people who aren't holding a sword. Saying Mihawk can only beat people who are holding a sword is not the same as saying there may be swordsmen who have alternate means strong enough to beat Mihawk in an all out fight(Issho for example, Mihawk could absolutely beat him in a sword match but just because Issho uses a sword does not mean Mihawk can surpass his DF ability. He might be able to but the WSS title doesn't guarantee it like you keep talking it does)
Who ever said he was a sitting dummy? I never said these hypotheticals would roll over him once they dropped their sword and switched offensive styles.
Punk Hazard
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Again with the irony. You're missing my point: The conversation is now pointless.
Yes, they are nothing but imagination. Because Shanks being faster is only in your imagination. Shanks using a gun, imagination. Mihawk's Haki, Shanks Haki, their endurance, their speed, it's all imagination because the manga hasn't shown it to us.
COULD a person beat Mihawk with their DF, etc.? For now, no. For now, his title implies that even with a Devil Fruit or martial arts or marksmanship, a swordsman would still lose.