[Discussion] Can Whitebeard beat Mihawk?

[Sasuke The Solo God]

He never mentioned the gap to who's advantage :sdo:


Nothing said it was his strongest slash, why would you test with your strongest slash :sdo:. Mr 1 tanked it and was fodderised because the slash wasn't meant for diamond...

Fougth a Vista on hindsight looking at Luffy the entire time :sdo:


Wrong, Mihawk brought a bounty page of prestime skip Luffy and Shanks's response "Here for a duel again?"... I am sure it's a fair measure to let Shanks's strength grow while leaving Mhawk's behind.... Meanwhile he is a Zoro's mentor :|


Mihawk called Current Shanks "pitiful one armed sad soul"


All the Admirals were shocked and Alarmed with Mihawk's arrival and "Takanome never follows rules"

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Come again?

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Like I said it all hinges on if you believe Mihawk is on that Admiral level or not.

Bloodlusted is a better argument, but in a neutral scenario with a normal mindset he loses.

....Which could only be based on his hype, which doesn't compare to WB's, which doesn't justify your assertion.

Highly doubtful, considering his feats while being significantly hindered.

 

[ToshiZO]

....Which could only be based on his hype, which doesn't compare to WB's, which doesn't justify your assertion.

Highly doubtful, considering his feats while being significantly hindered.

It's not about matching WB's hype, it's about matching the Admirals hype.

Admirals beating WB? Not doubtful, but I'm not typing an essay out right now.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

It's not about matching WB's hype, it's about matching the Admirals hype.

Admirals beating WB? Not doubtful, but I'm not typing an essay out right now.

The topic of discussion is whether WB can defeat Mihawk. Reaching into left field for whatever odd reason still isn't going to aid your point, because the Admirals hype doesn't stack up against WB's either. Comparing hype, portrayal, and/or feats doesn't support Mihawk winning here. Stop beating around the bush, because you haven't presented a valid point.

I'm not going to take your word for it, but okay, that's fine.

 

[ToshiZO]

The topic of discussion is whether WB can defeat Mihawk. Reaching into left field for whatever odd reason still isn't going to aid your point, because the Admirals hype doesn't stack up against WB's either. Comparing hype, portrayal, and/or feats doesn't support Mihawk winning here. Stop beating around the bush, because you haven't presented a valid point.

I'm not going to take your word for it, but okay, that's fine.

Which is why I am not typing an essay out for Admiral > WB, the topic is Mihawk. And I keep saying it depends how you view Mihawk.

In order for Mihawk to beat WB he doesn't need to match WB's hype or portrayal because other characters who don't even match WB's portrayal or hype can beat him via feats. Get it?

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Which is why I am not typing an essay out for Admiral > WB, the topic is Mihawk. And I keep saying it depends how you view Mihawk.

In order for Mihawk to beat WB he doesn't need to match WB's hype or portrayal because other characters who don't even match WB's portrayal or hype can beat him via feats. Get it?

And I keep saying that the basis on how you view Mihawk would be his hype. Am I right or wrong? Because you don't put Mihawk in that category with portrayal and feats. You'd have to believe that based on the statement that he is the strongest swordsmen alive, and thus being superior/= Shanks.

So does Mihawk beat WB based on feats then? You need to be consistent. Whatever category (hype, portrayal, and/or feats) you're basing Mihawks overall strength in, is how you accurately go about deciding the victor of this specific match, since so much is unknown. You can go right ahead and say based on feats alone, 'character x' can defeat WB. That's fine, but we're discussing Mihawk and WB, so 'character x' is irrelevant here. So if you're going to ignore Mihawks feats and portrayal, and form your opinion solely on his hype placing him on Admiral level; then you need to do the same with WB. You can't only consider Mihawks hype, but then disregard WB's hype, and only consider his feats. That's a very inaccurate way of forming your opinion.

Compare hype with hype, feats with feats, and portrayal with portrayal. WB is superior in all categories.

 

[ToshiZO]

And I keep saying that the basis on how you view Mihawk would be his hype. Am I right or wrong? Because you don't put Mihawk in that category with portrayal and feats. You'd have to believe that based on the statement that he is the strongest swordsmen alive, and thus being superior/= Shanks.

So does Mihawk beat WB based on feats then? You need to be consistent. Whatever category (hype, portrayal, and/or feats) you're basing Mihawks overall strength in, is how you accurately go about deciding the victor of this specific match, since so much is unknown. You can go right ahead and say based on feats alone, 'character x' can defeat WB. That's fine, but we're discussing Mihawk and WB, so 'character x' is irrelevant here. So if you're going to ignore Mihawks feats and portrayal, and form your opinion solely on his hype placing him on Admiral level; then you need to do the same with WB. You can't only consider Mihawks hype, but then disregard WB's hype, and only consider his feats. That's a very inaccurate way of forming your opinion.

Compare hype with hype, feats with feats, and portrayal with portrayal. WB is superior in all categories.

Sure I don't really care, I've left Mihawk open for interpretation for a reason. Just saying if he is truly on par with an Admiral (there are valid reasons to believe he is), he should be able to take this because this is more about WB's age and condition than anything.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Use Gura Gura to break them. I'm sorry but by the way you lay this sentence out it sounds as if you're saying WB couldn't have stopped Akainu's meteors(which aren't even a fraction of a real meteor) If Doffy and Law can avoid an actual meteor from an Admiral unharmed what would even begin to imply WB couldn't handle MF meteors?

Why didn't he employ this same method in repelling the fodder that came to stab him?

And don't tell me he chose to let them stab him. When Squard stabbed him, Marco commented that Whitebeard in good health would never let an attack like that hit him, even if it was coming from an ally. That means that WB would intercept any attacks he can, and yet, he didn't intercept them. The only logical conclusion is that, at that moment, he could not stop fodder, so he definitely wouldn't be able to stop the strongest attack we've seen Akainu use.

I didn't say it means he's the man who most fits the parameters of a swordsman, I acknowledge the title means he can defeat any opponent using a sword. I said WSS doesn't mean he can automatically beat any character simply because they use a sword IF they have alternate methods of fighting. Mihawk can beat anyone who picks up a sword that's all the title guarantees him, it doesn't guarantee him a victory over the person in combat if combatant has multiple methods of fighting beyond a sword.

Yes it does, because swordsman doesn't mean only using swordsman ship. Swordsman means anyone who has a sword as part of his primary fighting style. Kaku used both martial arts, a sword, and a Devil Fruit, and he was still classified as a swordsman. Swordsman=a noun for any person who has a sword for primary usage. Shanks can use guns, Haki, a sword, his fists, his legs, bombs, poisons, a hammer, and a slingshot, he'll still be a swordsman.

World's Strongest Swordsman=Strongest person in the category of swordsman, not strongest at using a sword.

WSM isn't the same as WSS, WSM is an all encompassing title,

So is WWS.

it's not specifying any one thing he's strongest in it's a blanket statement saying he is the strongest in all out combat. Plus, the WSS title seemingly only applies to swords and not all blades as WB carried a bladed weapon or are you implying WSS title outweighs WSM title?

Obviously not every bladed weapon is a sword. You think a shuriken is a sword? An ax? Why would this even be something you say?

 

[LBeezy]

Sure I don't really care, I've left Mihawk open for interpretation for a reason. Just saying if he is truly on par with an Admiral (there are valid reasons to believe he is), he should be able to take this because this is more about WB's age and condition than anything.

But Forbidden Technique clearly just said if you're basing Mihawk off of his portrayal/hype, which is his title.. then you can't possibly have an argument..

Whitebeard > Mihawk

based on your own sense of logic.. (portrayal/hype/titles)
based on feats..
and based on the manga iself..


GG tho

 

[ToshiZO]

But Forbidden Technique clearly just said if you're basing Mihawk off of his portrayal/hype, which is his title.. then you can't possibly have an argument..

Whitebeard > Mihawk

based on your own sense of logic.. (portrayal/hype/titles)
based on feats..
and based on the manga iself..


GG tho

I'm basing Mihawk off my own opinion, I don't care and never cared to change anyone's opinion of Mihawk, my first reply to him was it all depends how you see Mihawk.

So I really don't know why tf you're getting all excited here for.

 

[LBeezy]

Why didn't he employ this same method in repelling the fodder that came to stab him?

And don't tell me he chose to let them stab him. When Squard stabbed him, Marco commented that Whitebeard in good health would never let an attack like that hit him, even if it was coming from an ally. That means that WB would intercept any attacks he can, and yet, he didn't intercept them. The only logical conclusion is that, at that moment, he could not stop fodder, so he definitely wouldn't be able to stop the strongest attack we've seen Akainu use.




Yes it does, because swordsman doesn't mean only using swordsman ship. Swordsman means anyone who has a sword as part of his primary fighting style. Kaku used both martial arts, a sword, and a Devil Fruit, and he was still classified as a swordsman. Swordsman=a noun for any person who has a sword for primary usage. Shanks can use guns, Haki, a sword, his fists, his legs, bombs, poisons, a hammer, and a slingshot, he'll still be a swordsman.

World's Strongest Swordsman=Strongest person in the category of swordsman, not strongest at using a sword.




So is WWS.



Obviously not every bladed weapon is a sword. You think a shuriken is a sword? An ax? Why would this even be something you say?

So tell me this..

Location: Alabasta, middle of the desert.

Both Mihawk and Shanks have no swords but are going to fight.

Who do you think wins?

Are you going to say Mihawk automatically wins based on his WSS title?

Without a sword the title means nothing.

 

[LBeezy]

I'm basing Mihawk off my own opinion, I don't care and never cared to change anyone's opinion of Mihawk, my first reply to him was it all depends how you see Mihawk.

So I really don't know why tf you're getting all excited here for.

That's cool and all.. but if someone says that in their opinion Coby can beat Akainu, that doesn't quite make it right now does it?

 

[Punk Hazard]

So tell me this..

Location: Alabasta, middle if the desert.

Both Mihawk and Shanks have no swords but are going to fight.

Who do you think wins?

Are you going to say Mihawk automatically wins based on his WSS title?

Without a sword the title means nothing.

That's not how it works.

Mihawk's title means that if he and another swordsman fight at their max capabilities, he has the higher chance of winning. Taking away Mihawk's ability to perform at this best doesn't prove that the title is meaningless. That's like saying take away WB's Devil Fruit, and the title of WSM means nothing since that's the source of his most impressive feats.

 

[ToshiZO]

That's cool and all.. but if someone says that in their opinion Coby can beat Akainu, that doesn't quite make it right now does it?

I'm sure there is a difference between saying Mihawk is around Admiral level vs Coby beating Akainu, but ok.

 

[LBeezy]

That's not how it works.

Mihawk's title means that if he and another swordsman fight at their max capabilities, he has the higher chance of winning. Taking away Mihawk's ability to perform at this best doesn't prove that the title is meaningless. That's like saying take away WB's Devil Fruit, and the title of WSM means nothing since that's the source of his most impressive feats.

Thank you. You just proved my point.

@bold how can you say Mihawk is automatically > Shanks?

If they fought all out Shanks isn't restricted to only using a sword.

Unless Mihawk's title is "World's Strongest Swordsman with the best haki and also the best hand to hand combat in the world" then you can't say Mihawk > Shanks is for a fact.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Thank you. You just proved my point.

@bold how can you say Mihawk is automatically > Shanks?

If they fought all out Shanks isn't restricted to only using a sword.

Unless Mihawk's title is "World's Strongest Swordsman with the best haki and also the best hand to hand combat in the world" then you can't say Mihawk > Shanks is for a fact.

Swordsman is a category.

World's Strongest Swordman=strongest person in this category.

That means that Mihawk's highest capabilities>the highest capabilities of any person within this category.

That means that Mihawk's ability to use a sword isn't just better than another swordsman's ability to use a sword. It means that Mihawk's ability to use his sword is better than another swordsman's ability to use anything in their arsenal so long as they use a sword enough to be in the category if swordsman.

Shanks can have higher individual stuff than Mihawk. His Haki might be better than Mihawk's. His speed might be better, his physical strength might be better, but it means when they go all out, Mihawk's overall capabilities>Shanks'.

Your "Mihawk without his sword thing" doesn't mean that Mihawk isn't stronger than Shanks. To illustrate, Rob Lucci is the strongest member of CP9. Would I be justified in saying "Okay, but take away Lucci's Devil Fruit and put him against Kaku. He loses, so does that make him truly stronger than Kaku?" No, I would not be. It wouldn't be if I said "Take away Lucci's Rokushiki, and he loses against Kaku because Kaku has swords too, therefore he isn't truly the strongest in CP9. "That's what you sound like saying "Take away Mihawk's sword."

 

[Love Cook]

Swordsman is a category.

World's Strongest Swordman=strongest person in this category.

That means that Mihawk's highest capabilities>the highest capabilities of any person within this category.

That means that Mihawk's ability to use a sword isn't just better than another swordsman's ability to use a sword. It means that Mihawk's ability to use his sword is better than another swordsman's ability to use anything in their arsenal so long as they use a sword enough to be in the category if swordsman.

Shanks can have higher individual stuff than Mihawk. His Haki might be better than Mihawk's. His speed might be better, his physical strength might be better, but it means when they go all out, Mihawk's overall capabilities>Shanks'.

You're almost right.

Shanks can have higher individual stuff than Mihawk. His Haki might be better than Mihawk's. His speed might be better, his physical strength might be better, but it means when they go all out, Mihawk's overall SWORDPLAY capabilities>Shanks'.

Not his overall abilities, just his swordsmanship abilities are overall better. Even if it would be a swordfight and Shanks is only half as good with one arm now than Mihawk and Mihawk has the most amazing technique. Still means nothing if Shanks has haki that can't be cut by mihawk.

It would be a swordfight - Check
Mihawk would be the best swordsman - Check
But Shanks would win the fight.

This is just one simple explanation why your reasoning doesn't work. Just because Shanks uses a sword he doesn't automatically get ranked below Mihawk.

Shanks also holds a title, one of the 3 strongest pirates in the world, and Mihawk ain't one of them. So go figure.

Also what would happen if Kaidou would pick up a sword. Would he be the world's strongest creature with a sword ? Or would he all of a sudden become weaker than Mihawk the moment he touches a sword like it's some sort of kryptonite.

Mihawk even wanted to meassure the gap between him and grandpa whitebeard. The word gap should tell you enough.

 

[Punk Hazard]

You're almost right.

Shanks can have higher individual stuff than Mihawk. His Haki might be better than Mihawk's. His speed might be better, his physical strength might be better, but it means when they go all out, Mihawk's overall SWORDPLAY capabilities>Shanks'.

Not his overall abilities, just his swordsmanship abilities are overall better. Even if it would be a swordfight and Shanks is only half as good with one arm now than Mihawk and Mihawk has the most amazing technique. Still means nothing if Shanks has haki that can't be cut by mihawk.

It would be a swordfight - Check
Mihawk would be the best swordsman - Check
But Shanks would win the fight.

This is just one simple explanation why your reasoning doesn't work. Just because Shanks uses a sword he doesn't automatically get ranked below Mihawk.

Shanks also holds a title, one of the 3 strongest pirates in the world, and Mihawk ain't one of them. So go figure.

Also what would happen if Kaidou would pick up a sword. Would he be the world's strongest creature with a sword ? Or would he all of a sudden become weaker than Mihawk the moment he touches a sword like it's some sort of kryptonite.

Mihawk even wanted to meassure the gap between him and grandpa whitebeard. The word gap should tell you enough.

Rob Lucci is the strongest CP9 member.

You're half right. It means that Mihawk's highest capabilities, which lie in his swordplay, more than Shanks' highest capabilities, swordplay or not, because that's the category. The manga hasn't indicated otherwise as of yet, if it ever will at all.

Rob Lucci was stated to be the strongest CP9 agent. Does that mean that Lucci's capabilities are only superior to the other agents in Rokushiki, and that Kaku would beat him because he has swordsmanship plus Rokushiki?

Underlined: Doesn't apply to Mihawk. He's considered a Shichibukai, not an active pirate.

Bold: That wouldn't make Kaido a swordsman, so that argument fails.

Bold and underline: Works both ways. A gap where Mihawk is stronger than Whitebeard is still a gap, after all.

 

[RJ22BIG]

Mihawk has no chance against whitebeard this can't actually be an actual conversation whitebeard half dead solo's a full health akainu relatively quickly. This notion that Mihawk is on the same tier as shanks is ridiculous. They dueled more then 12 years ago without anybody knowing the out come of those duels or even if shanks was a yonkou or their power levels at that time. Mihawk is extremely strong pirate but yonkous are the 4 strongest pirates.

Whitebeard wins mid diff probably high but even that's stretching it

 

[-Akuma-]

Whitebeard was the strongest in the manga at the time of MF so unless Mihawk got stronger after the time-skip I'd say that's a no.