Can someone explain how hashirama is supposed to be the strongest.

[TheSages456]

Again, Kabuto barely even

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what Gedo Mazo is. He's never seen Gedo Mazo fight either, so he might think "herpderp Mokuton > Gedo Mazo" because he doesn't know about Gedo Mazo's ability to clear the battlefield with one yell. He also still wouldn't know about the Edo Paths power (Hashirama can suppress the Bijuu chakra in them but not their chakra). And Mokuton can't instantly restrain Bijuu, and Kabuto doesn't even know how powerful the Bijuu are together either way. All he's seen is Yamato suppress 4T Naruto.

And that's only Tobi's Bijuu-based power. Kabuto still knows nothing about Tobi's S/T techs, Izanagi, Genjutsu, and not even his mastery over Senju and Uchiha DNA. And Kabuto stated his invisibility long before his fight with Itachi and Sasuke. And the statement he said bout Hashi is the exact same as the one Kishi said bout Minato, yet no one says that Minato's number one. These statements are being taken too literally.

kabuto stated that he was invincible because of his edo army and sage mode. i still think kabuto knows about gedo mazo but tobis bijuus have shown to be stronger than gedo mazo and since kabuto knows about those, it makes knowledge on gedo mazo pretty irrelevant. im pretty sure kabuto knows about tobis warping as he has actually seen it in action. kabuto has shown that he knows about rinnegan powers also. if tobi uses izanagi, then he loses his warping and genjutsu. i doubt that he would even want to use izanagi unless its a life or death situation(like with konan). hashiramas power was stated to be a myth. i dont see how thats hyperbole.

 

[jbthegreat]

Ok a lot of people on this website seem to think hashirama is the strongest ninja ever. But in the beginning of the naruto series it says hiruzen sarutobi was the strongest kage the leaf village ever had. Then kishi made it so hiruzen fights not only hashirama but his brother n orochimaru also. From what I seen in that fight he didn't even look stronger than n old hiruzen. Now I know a lot of you will say that wasn't hashirama at his best cuz he was being control by orochimaru but it has been stated already that orochimaru edo was perfected. Finally in the naruto databook( which is also written by kishimoto) says hiruzen was the strongest hokage n hashirama was the strongest of his era. Now with that being said can a hashirama fanboy please explain why kishi would say hiruzen was the strongest n have him beat his former teachers if one of them was suppose to be stronger?

Character chakra intelligence ability taijutsu ninjutsu genjutsu strength speed defense
Naruto 100 40 80 70 60 25 70 60 70
sasuke 60 50 75 60 70 70 50 65 100
kakashi 60 90 90 80 80 60 50 70 45
Guy 65 40 70 90 50 25 75 90 60
Jiraiya 70 85 80 80 80 45 80 50 60
Orochimaru 65 90 100 70 90 65 65 70 70
Tsunade 70 70 65 90 35 25 100 60 80
Neji 45 70 90 85 40 25 65 70 45
4th raikage 90 65 60 90 45 25 100 100 90
Mizukage 45 70 80 65 85 25 60 65 40
Gaara 80 80 80 30 70 25 40 40 100
Yamato 60 80 90 50 70 25 50 50 80
Shikimaru 45 100 70 45 65 45 35 50 50
Madara 90 95 90 90 90 90 90 90 100
1st Hokage 90 100 90 90 90 90 90 90 90
Tobi 85 100 90 75 85 100 50 100 100
4th Hokage 70 95 90 90 90 70 60 100 50
Itachi 65 100 100 80 75 100 50 90 70
Danzo 65 85 65 60 80 80 50 50 55

 

[jbthegreat]

Character chakra intelligence ability taijutsu ninjutsu genjutsu strength speed defense
Naruto 100 40 80 70 60 25 70 60 70
sasuke 60 50 75 60 70 70 50 65 100
kakashi 60 90 90 80 80 60 50 70 45
Guy 65 40 70 90 50 25 75 90 60
Jiraiya 70 85 80 80 80 45 80 50 60
Orochimaru 65 90 100 70 90 65 65 70 70
Tsunade 70 70 65 90 35 25 100 60 80
Neji 45 70 90 85 40 25 65 70 45
4th raikage 90 65 60 90 45 25 100 100 90
Mizukage 45 70 80 65 85 25 60 65 40
Gaara 80 80 80 30 70 25 40 40 100
Yamato 60 80 90 50 70 25 50 50 80
Shikimaru 45 100 70 45 65 45 35 50 50
Madara 90 95 90 90 90 90 90 90 100
1st Hokage 90 100 90 90 90 90 90 90 90
Tobi 85 100 90 75 85 100 50 100 100
4th Hokage 70 95 90 90 90 70 60 100 50
Itachi 65 100 100 80 75 100 50 90 70
Danzo 65 85 65 60 80 80 50 50 55

 

[sage22]

kabuto stated that he was invincible because of his edo army and sage mode. i still think kabuto knows about gedo mazo but tobis bijuus have shown to be stronger than gedo mazo and since kabuto knows about those, it makes knowledge on gedo mazo pretty irrelevant. im pretty sure kabuto knows about tobis warping as he has actually seen it in action. kabuto has shown that he knows about rinnegan powers also. if tobi uses izanagi, then he loses his warping and genjutsu. i doubt that he would even want to use izanagi unless its a life or death situation(like with konan). hashiramas power was stated to be a myth. i dont see how thats hyperbole.

Since u think u know so much why would tobi lose his ability to warp if he use izanagi. I never seen it stated that his space time jutsu has anything to do with sharigun. N I could have swore people can use genjutsu with sharigun.

 

[TheSages456]

Since u think u know so much why would tobi lose his ability to warp if he use izanagi. I never seen it stated that his space time jutsu has anything to do with sharigun. N I could have swore people can use genjutsu with sharigun.

maybe because whenever he warps someone, they go into his sharingan. i never said that tobi cant use genjutsu with his sharingan. i said that if tobi uses izanagi and loses his sharingan then he can no longer use genjutsu. this is the last time im responding to your retarded posts.

 

[Sashimi Kun]

Hiruzen>hashirama. He was called the strongest hokage and before someone come with the usual BS *Madara said that only hashirama can stop him* Madara probably doesn't even know about hiruzen's existence or how strong he was in his prime and hiruzen already owned both Tobirama and Hashirama in part 1. Hiruzen>hashirama, deal with it

So, do you believe Prime Hiruzen > Madara???

 

[sage22]

maybe because whenever he warps someone, they go into his sharingan. i never said that tobi cant use genjutsu with his sharingan. i said that if tobi uses izanagi and loses his sharingan then he can no longer use genjutsu. this is the last time im responding to your retarded posts.

Yes please don't reply. leave the posting to people who really know what is going on in the series.

 

[sage22]

So, do you believe Prime Hiruzen > Madara???

Yes

 

[SageRinnegan]

I'm not gonna waste my breath explaining it to you. Sorry.

.... how are you using your breath?

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[6pathofpain]

Ok a lot of people on this website seem to think hashirama is the strongest ninja ever. But in the beginning of the naruto series it says hiruzen sarutobi was the strongest kage the leaf village ever had. Then kishi made it so hiruzen fights not only hashirama but his brother n orochimaru also. From what I seen in that fight he didn't even look stronger than n old hiruzen. Now I know a lot of you will say that wasn't hashirama at his best cuz he was being control by orochimaru but it has been stated already that orochimaru edo was perfected. Finally in the naruto databook( which is also written by kishimoto) says hiruzen was the strongest hokage n hashirama was the strongest of his era. Now with that being said can a hashirama fanboy please explain why kishi would say hiruzen was the strongest n have him beat his former teachers if one of them was suppose to be stronger?

Whats the thirds counter for flower world. And his only counter for bringer of darkness is killing himself...thats why.

 

[6pathofpain]

Yes

im really sorry you believe that :'(

 

[sage22]

im really sorry you believe that :'(

Ok so ur saying hashirama can beat madara. But the guy who can beat hashirama can't beat madara.

 

[6pathofpain]

Ok so ur saying hashirama can beat madara. But the guy who can beat hashirama can't beat madara.

Certain fighting stlye fit others better.Kinda how sissors beats paper, paper beats rock but rock beats sissors. Just cause rock beat sissors doesnt make rock beat paper.

Not to mention he fought a mindless hashirama and tobirama and as im sure we know in naruto mind is half or more the battle. Not to mention didnt use his flower world jutsu or anything as destructive as what madara did. He and his brother both only used like one jutsu each and could of killed him while he was under the briinger of darkness genjutsu.

And if the 3rds suppose to be so great...what has he done? What are his great jutsu's? What can he do to beat either madara or the 1st but kill himself? What makes him so great that even puts him a=in the same league as people like the 1st, madara, nagato, itachi, minato, or naruto?

 

[Shirou Emiya]

Idk but I think Kishi is holding something out on us

 

[Scryed]

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- wood clones

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,

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, and one was used too follow oru, kabuto, and sai too oru's hideout. (which is better then a regular shadow clone considering its more solid

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)
- water and earth jutsu's (the lv of which we can assume is high lv),
- could make wood come from anypart of his body

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,

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, which would be good to make immediate weapons or shields or to subdue anyone

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. And Note how strong it is, yamato was able to subdue 4 tails with it

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could muster up a forest in seconds, and subdue any ninja with in with a powerful bind that is hard to break (note even sarutobi new that he needed Emma to break the wood with staff mode)
- could trap you in a fortress like trap in seconds

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- he could use his wood to suppress the power of bijuus
- could change the landscape

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,

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- and huge (i mean huge!) chakra reserves. And hell the 1st hokage was the one to build konoha (atleast did the hard part.lol)
- can use it to help fight. Such as ride the wood

Zetsu power added bonus that shows Wood ability

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. tobi is using the power of the tailed beast and the 1st hokage to multiply and create the zetsu clones

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. and kabuto says he can use yamato too make more zetsus clones

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.

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- Become one with nature

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, so could yamato

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And lastly

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So basically he could make a forest. Then could merge with the forest and pop up from any part (or tree, that he created) and atk you with his added other powers:

- heal with no hand signs (almost imposible to kill)
- high lv genjutsu (bringer of darkness/infinite darkness)
- water and earth jutsus
-

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- etc etc

Overall the man is super Broken and i hope this thread (like the ones in the past i created) help enlighten the fans that never put 1 and 1 together!

NAd this is only a portion of what has been shown in the manga.

This was good research. Considering that he could create a forest and merge with it. Along with casting bringer of darkness. To add to that, flower tree world that would most likely cause drowsiness to those who inhale it. Self healing unless he receives a fatal blow that would instantly kill him. Along with being able to create mokuton clones. Having to fight this would be very difficult since one would have a hard time dealing a fatal blow to Hashirama himself. If it's not an instant kill, he would self-heal, or so I assume.

Hiruzen would have to start a forest fire in hope of dealing with the spores of the flower tree world but now Hashirama would have burning wood at his disposal. I haven't seen much from Hiruzen but for him to have learned all the jutsu in Konoha, he probably has other Fuuton counters to the spores. Getting a clear shot at Hashirama is still extremely difficult. Hiruzen would also need to put wide-range techniques to use.

Well, I can't find any reason why Hashirama wouldn't be able to use all this at once. Unless it does use up hordes of chakra that would cause Hashirama to tire and run out. Though both mostly have hype under them, Hashirama's shown more feats through others that have his Mokuton.

I don't know enough about either to draw a Hiruzen>Hashirama or Hashirama>Hiruzen but judging on hype alone, Hiruzen's seems bigger to me. I believe Hashirama was considered a fairy tale because others couldn't believe that he could create an entire forest in a matter of seconds. Along with creating an entire village. Let it be if he did that on his own or not.

Madara stating that Hashirama is the only one that could stop him just tells me that Hashirama is best suited to fight him. Since Hashirama and Hiruzen don't have the same techniques except for non-kekkei genkai if Hiruzen also knew them. Hashirama is able to suppress chakra which proves to be effective against the Kyuubi. It might also work on Susanoo. Yamato was also able to suppress Kisame's chakra through Hashirama's Mokuton which leads me to believe Hashirama could do the same to other individuals. Perhaps his would be more effective than Yamato's.

Hiruzen's hype of knowing and perhaps beign able to use all of the non-KG techniques in Konoha, atleast in his prime, is also great. Since it imples that every non-KG technique we see from Konoha are at his disposal, which might include forbidden techniques or not. Only from Konoha though.

Feats are somewhat there but shown through other means. Hashirama through others that use his Mokuton. Hiruzen's, I would assume through all the non-KG techniques that Konoha shinobi use.

 

[Mystical Ninja]

did hiruzen kill ems madara?

 

[sage22]

Certain fighting stlye fit others better.Kinda how sissors beats paper, paper beats rock but rock beats sissors. Just cause rock beat sissors doesnt make rock beat paper.

Not to mention he fought a mindless hashirama and tobirama and as im sure we know in naruto mind is half or more the battle. Not to mention didnt use his flower world jutsu or anything as destructive as what madara did. He and his brother both only used like one jutsu each and could of killed him while he was under the briinger of darkness genjutsu.

And if the 3rds suppose to be so great...what has he done? What are his great jutsu's? What can he do to beat either madara or the 1st but kill himself? What makes him so great that even puts him a=in the same league as people like the 1st, madara, nagato, itachi, minato, or naruto?

Ok first where u talking about edo madara or regular madara?
Next we should go by the info giving to us not but what we perceive has happen or will happen in a fight. So far the info giving to us that HIRUZEN SARUTOBI is the strongest hokage. Hashirama senju was the strongest ninja madara came across.
Finally no matter what anyone say or what they believe the situation was but hiruzen did defeat hashirama n tobirama.

 

[6pathofpain]

Ok first where u talking about edo madara or regular madara?
Next we should go by the info giving to us not but what we perceive has happen or will happen in a fight. So far the info giving to us that HIRUZEN SARUTOBI is the strongest hokage. Hashirama senju was the strongest ninja madara came across.
Finally no matter what anyone say or what they believe the situation was but hiruzen did defeat hashirama n tobirama.

Until he beats hashirama, not edo, not while someones controling him. But actually hashirama that fight doesnt mean shit. Like would you say itachi>nagato because of what happened during their fight? And the 3rd was called the strongest hokage by iruka, the 1st was called the strongest shinobi ever, and called strong by madara...Who would you say has more credibilty, the strongest uchiha or the weakiest sensei in the leaf village?

 

[sage22]

Until he beats hashirama, not edo, not while someones controling him. But actually hashirama that fight doesnt mean shit. Like would you say itachi>nagato because of what happened during their fight? And the 3rd was called the strongest hokage by iruka, the 1st was called the strongest shinobi ever, and called strong by madara...Who would you say has more credibilty, the strongest uchiha or the weakiest sensei in the leaf village?

You think madara has more credibility than a leaf village teacher?

 

[sage22]

Also itachi isn't stronger than nagato but we would beat him in a fight.