Can someone explain how hashirama is supposed to be the strongest.

[TobisPawn]

Either way, characters like Tobi weren't included in Kabuto's statement on Hashirama seeing that Kabuto knows almost nothing about Tobi's power.

As for Hiruzen vs Hashi, I'm inclined to think that Hiruzen's better seeing that it was stated countless times, and because that follows the whole theme of the manga.

 

[TheSages456]

Either way, characters like Tobi weren't included in Kabuto's statement on Hashirama seeing that Kabuto knows almost nothing about Tobi's power.

As for Hiruzen vs Hashi, I'm inclined to think that Hiruzen's better seeing that it was stated countless times, and because that follows the whole theme of the manga.

yes. 7 bijuus, gedo mazo and rinnegan are very easy to miss. you forget that kabuto sent the edo jinchurikis to tobi.

 

[Wallcrawler]

ASK HIM NOT US!!!

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[sage22]

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:|

That was during madara time. He wasn't around when hiruzen got the nickname god of shinobi.

 

[TobisPawn]

yes. 7 bijuus, gedo mazo and rinnegan are very easy to miss. you forget that kabuto sent the edo jinchurikis to tobi.

Yet Kabuto never saw the Edo Jinchuurikis fight, the Bijuus fight, the combined power of the Bijuus, Tobi's S/T techs, and everything Gedo Mazo can do. Kabuto isn't some sort of all-knowing person who's word accounts for everything.

Kabuto can't know the Jinchuurikis abilities just by looking at them. Nor can he know how powerful the Bijuus are by looking at them. Neither can he know that Gedo Mazo can rip souls and clear battlefields just by looking at it. And he doesn't know about Tobi's S/T techs either.

 

[TheSages456]

That was during madara time. He wasn't around when hiruzen got the nickname god of shinobi.

you just proved my point.

 

[sage22]

you just proved my point.

So hashirama was called the strongest shinobi during madara time proves your point. Good one fanboy

 

[TheSages456]

Yet Kabuto never saw the Edo Jinchuurikis fight, the Bijuus fight, the combined power of the Bijuus, Tobi's S/T techs, and everything Gedo Mazo can do. Kabuto isn't some sort of all-knowing person who's word accounts for everything.

Kabuto can't know the Jinchuurikis abilities just by looking at them. Nor can he know how powerful the Bijuus are by looking at them. Neither can he know that Gedo Mazo can rip souls and clear battlefields just by looking at it. And he doesn't know about Tobi's S/T techs either.

kabuto was wroking with tobi and he doesnt know how strong his weapons are and he is completely oblivious to the power of tobis arsenal. seems legit.

 

[TheSages456]

So hashirama was called the strongest shinobi during madara time proves your point. Good one fanboy

you just said that hashirama wasnt around when hiruzen got his nickname, which perfectly fits with hashiramas hype of him being a myth and nobody believing in his strength. alright now this "debate" is over.

 

[TobisPawn]

kabuto was wroking with tobi and he doesnt know how strong his weapons are and he is completely oblivious to the power of tobis arsenal. seems legit.

The two are wary of each other and yet you think Tobi would tell Kabuto all about his power? Kabuto's never seen the Bijuu fight nor does he know the Edo Jinchuuriki's abilities. And unless he was their with Nagato and Yahiko, he doesn't know that Gedo Mazo can rip souls and I doubt he's been spectating Tobi's fight when he's trapped in Izanami so...

 

[sage22]

No i meant madara wasn't around when hiruzen got the god of shinobi nickname so try again.

 

[Kaedon]

The real problem you all have is quoting characters, which in the end proves nothing. Until Kishi himself comes out and makes a tier listing (pigs fly, right?) then this is pointless. Don't believe characters who weren't even alive at the time and especially don't believe the character who was defeated. Infact, don't believe any of them. Wait and see for yourselves, if it's never shown than guess what? He wasn't that damn important.

 

[TheSages456]

The two are wary of each other and yet you think Tobi would tell Kabuto all about his power? Kabuto's never seen the Bijuu fight nor does he know the Edo Jinchuuriki's abilities. And unless he was their with Nagato and Yahiko, he doesn't know that Gedo Mazo can rip souls and I doubt he's been spectating Tobi's fight when he's trapped in Izanami so...

he doesnt need to see tobi fight to know how strong his arsenal is. kabuto knew the powers of the rinnegan despite never seeing them in action. its called research. he obviously knows how strong bijuus are. he sent the edo jinchurikis to tobi, knowing damn well what tobi was going to do to them.

No i meant madara wasn't around when hiruzen got the god of shinobi nickname so try again.

continue being in denail

 

[TobisPawn]

he doesnt need to see tobi fight to know how strong his arsenal is. kabuto knew the powers of the rinnegan despite never seeing them in action. its called research. he obviously knows how strong bijuus are. he sent the edo jinchurikis to tobi, knowing damn well what tobi was going to do to them.

Again, he can very well know that Tobi has Bijuus and Jinchuurikis, but that doesn't mean he knows how strong they are. He's never seen a TBB in action, let alone five TBBs put together. He's never seen Tobi's paths fight and show off their abilities. He's never analyzed Tobi's S/T techs, and hell, I don't think he's ever seen Tobi use them. And he's never seen Gedo Mazo fight to its full potential, and Kabuto himself has never seen how Tobi fights either. And he doesn't know about Tobi's Genjutsu prowess, Izanagi, and what other techniques Tobi has (that we might not know either).

@bold: That's like saying that we know Hashirama has Mokuton so we can automatically assume how powerful he is. And Kabuto's going straight off of Hashirama's hype too seeing that Hashirama's long dead. So his statement isn't near credible enough to put Hashirama above everyone else.

 

[TheSages456]

Again, he can very well know that Tobi has Bijuus and Jinchuurikis, but that doesn't mean he knows how strong they are. He's never seen a TBB in action, let alone five TBBs put together. He's never seen Tobi's paths fight and show off their abilities. He's never analyzed Tobi's S/T techs, and hell, I don't think he's ever seen Tobi use them. And he's never seen Gedo Mazo fight to its full potential, and Kabuto himself has never seen how Tobi fights either. And he doesn't know about Tobi's Genjutsu prowess, Izanagi, and what other techniques Tobi has (that we might not know either).

@bold: That's like saying that we know Hashirama has Mokuton so we can automatically assume how powerful he is. And Kabuto's going straight off of Hashirama's hype too seeing that Hashirama's long dead. So his statement isn't near credible enough to put Hashirama above everyone else.

kabuto doesnt have to know tobis exact battle strength. he can make a logical conclusion on what tobis strength could be from observing the tools in his arsenal.

 

[MickNerks]

Hiruzen > Hashirama

Hiruzen has defeaed hashirama. whether hashirama was edo or not, he still took a L to hiruzen. In the record books it will always say hiruzen defeated hashirama.

 

[TobisPawn]

kabuto doesnt have to know tobis exact battle strength. he can make a logical conclusion on what tobis strength could be from observing the tools in his arsenal.

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But he doesn't know anything about Gedo Mazo. So the best he can come up with is "its a big statue so it can probably smash rocks" or something. Coming up with the conclusion that it can rip souls out of nowhere is a little far-fetched...

Same with the Bijuus. I don't think any of us thought that the Bijuus could casually bust mountains with TBBs and create

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when combining their power. And unless Kabuto's researched every Jinchuuriki, he won't know that Roshi has lava, Utakata has explosive bubbles, Yagura can reflect any attack, etc. He'll just think that they're vessels for the Bijuus. He won't know that Yagura can reflect Hashirama's attacks, etc.

And it still stands that he knows nothing about Izanagi (maybe he does now after being put in Izanami), Tobi's Genjutsu (killed Konan with it + controlled a perfect Jinchuuriki), or his S/T techs (Tobi hasn't used them in front of Kabuto).


And

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Kabuto says that he's invincible though he knows all about "the fusion of Madara and Hashirama" in his arsenal, so his statement about Hashirama loses more credibility. And

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Kabuto said that "there are no Shinobi like him anymore"....the same thing Kishi said about Minato. See

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for the same translation regarding Hashirama. So the statement doesn't even have to be taken literally, though Tobi still isn't included in it.

 

[TheSages456]

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But he doesn't know anything about Gedo Mazo. So the best he can come up with is "its a big statue so it can probably smash rocks" or something. Coming up with the conclusion that it can rip souls out of nowhere is a little far-fetched...

Same with the Bijuus. I don't think any of us thought that the Bijuus could casually bust mountains with TBBs and create

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when combining their power. And unless Kabuto's researched every Jinchuuriki, he won't know that Roshi has lava, Utakata has explosive bubbles, Yagura can reflect any attack, etc. He'll just think that they're vessels for the Bijuus. He won't know that Yagura can reflect Hashirama's attacks, etc.

And it still stands that he knows nothing about Izanagi (maybe he does now after being put in Izanami), Tobi's Genjutsu (killed Konan with it + controlled a perfect Jinchuuriki), or his S/T techs (Tobi hasn't used them in front of Kabuto).


And

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Kabuto says that he's invincible though he knows all about "the fusion of Madara and Hashirama" in his arsenal, so his statement about Hashirama loses more credibility. And

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Kabuto said that "there are no Shinobi like him anymore"....the same thing Kishi said about Minato. See

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for the same translation regarding Hashirama.

kabuto knows about tobis bijuu and he knows about hashiramas ability to suppress tailed beasts. he knows that gedo mazo is the container of the bijuu and thats tailed beast power. whats hashiramas specialty again. kabuto can take these things into account to make a logical conclusion. kabutos statement about hashirama wasnt biased. in his fight with sasuke and itachi, he just got cocky.

 

[TobisPawn]

kabuto knows about tobis bijuu and he knows about hashiramas ability to suppress tailed beasts. he knows that gedo mazo is the container of the bijuu and thats tailed beast power. whats hashiramas specialty again. kabuto can take these things into account to make a logical conclusion. kabutos statement about hashirama wasnt biased. in his fight with sasuke and itachi, he just got cocky.

Again, Kabuto barely even

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what Gedo Mazo is. He's never seen Gedo Mazo fight either, so he might think "herpderp Mokuton > Gedo Mazo" because he doesn't know about Gedo Mazo's ability to clear the battlefield with one yell. He also still wouldn't know about the Edo Paths power (Hashirama can suppress the Bijuu chakra in them but not their chakra). And Mokuton can't instantly restrain Bijuu, and Kabuto doesn't even know how powerful the Bijuu are together either way. All he's seen is Yamato suppress 4T Naruto.

And that's only Tobi's Bijuu-based power. Kabuto still knows nothing about Tobi's S/T techs, Izanagi, Genjutsu, and not even his mastery over Senju and Uchiha DNA. And Kabuto stated his invisibility long before his fight with Itachi and Sasuke. And the statement he said bout Hashi is the exact same as the one Kishi said bout Minato, yet no one says that Minato's number one. These statements are being taken too literally.

 

[sage22]

Hiruzen > Hashirama

Hiruzen has defeaed hashirama. whether hashirama was edo or not, he still took a L to hiruzen. In the record books it will always say hiruzen defeated hashirama.

This is true. Also not to mention nobody ever said hashirama was stronger then hiruzen