Can someone beat this?

[KevinPJH]

Oh boy, another Minato vs Itachi thread..

 

[ajpn920]

Oh boy, another Minato vs Itachi thread..

Not really..Just curious how can someone stop Minato from sealing his/her chakra when space time barrier is activated..any idea?:snick:

 

[Troyg39]

Hey I think you misunderstood my first comment. I wasn't talking about 8 trigram I was talking about the Space-Time Barrier. I've never Minato just apply it to someone and suck them up. I've only seen it suck up an incoming attack. Wouldn't that mean that the opponent would have to attack before getting sucked in by Space-Time Barrier? If they never attack close-range then how is he going to catch them in Space-Time Barrier?

 

[ajpn920]

Hey I think you misunderstood my first comment. I wasn't talking about 8 trigram I was talking about the Space-Time Barrier. I've never Minato just apply it to someone and suck them up. I've only seen it suck up an incoming attack. Wouldn't that mean that the opponent would have to attack before getting sucked in by Space-Time Barrier? If they never attack close-range then how is he going to catch them in Space-Time Barrier?

He is not going to catch them in space time barrier. What I mean is that since space time barrier is activated then no attack can stop Minato from doing the 8 trigrams which can seal someones chakra. The key point here is sealing someones chakra which no one can stop if space time barrier is activated.

 

[iSpeak]

How can Minato summon the throne if he is busy with the space time barrier?

 

[ajpn920]

How can Minato summon the throne if he is busy with the space time barrier though?

Busy? After a combination of hand seals then the barrier is up. Why can't he do another jutsu after putting the barrier?

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[Troyg39]

He is not going to catch them in space time barrier. What I mean is that since space time barrier is activated then no attack can stop Minato from doing the 8 trigrams which can seal someones chakra. The key point here is sealing someones chakra which no one can stop if space time barrier is activated.

Wait you do realize the only reason he was able to seal the nine tails is becaus Kushina was keeping him pinned down right? He's not just going to be able to seal someone's chakra if he has no way of keeping them still.

Plus remember when he used Space-Time Barrier? He had to perform the hand signs and then hold the Kunai in place. He can't do that and perform the hand signs for the seal too. Plus he has to keep his opponent still to get their chakra. So you're asking him to trap and seal an opponents chakra with no real way of easily keeping his opponent still, also while making sure his Space-Time Barrier Kunai is always up and ready to absorb an attack?

If he's fighting an opponent who can shoot some sort of projectile then they wouldn't have to fear Space-Time Barrier. Then if that same enemy also had something like a Susanoo to keep them protected, they wouldn't have to fear his attacks or the 8-trigram seal since even if he could somehow trap the susanoo user and use the 8-trigram, it would simply seal the susanoo chakra surrounding the fighter, not the fighter himself. Susanoo can be activated and deactivated at will so it stands to reason that if he absorbed susanoo his opponent could still just reactivate it again if they had the chakra left.

Plus we know if Minato does absorb an attack, he has to stop and let the attack out at some point. He can't just leave attacks in his Barrier for whatever reason. That's why he had to let the TBB out. Even if he tried to throw it back at the opponent, the opponent could just counter attack it to negate it or again defend with susanoo or some sort of defense.

I don't think this combination is as good as you think it is.

 

[iSpeak]

Busy? After a combination of hand seals then the barrier is up. Why can't he do another jutsu after putting the barrier?

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No... from what I can tell Minato needs his Kunai (with the FTG marking) to place the barrier and teleport the attacks to another location... its not done automatically. Plus, the barrier is only formed where his Kunai is. All it takes is a clone or something to attack from behind... this is so easy to counter lol.

 

[Draphsin]

S/t barrier is slow, and it cant teleport more than 1 object at a time. While he's busy redirecting the attack he's wide open.

BTW s/t barrier doesnt work on ama, he's looking directly at minato...all he can do is avoid it

 

[ajpn920]

Wait you do realize the only reason he was able to seal the nine tails is becaus Kushina was keeping him pinned down right? He's not just going to be able to seal someone's chakra if he has no way of keeping them still.

Plus remember when he used Space-Time Barrier? He had to perform the hand signs and then hold the Kunai in place. He can't do that and perform the hand signs for the seal too. Plus he has to keep his opponent still to get their chakra. So you're asking him to trap and seal an opponents chakra with no real way of easily keeping his opponent still, also while making sure his Space-Time Barrier Kunai is always up and ready to absorb an attack?

If he's fighting an opponent who can shoot some sort of projectile then they wouldn't have to fear Space-Time Barrier. Then if that same enemy also had something like a Susanoo to keep them protected, they wouldn't have to fear his attacks or the 8-trigram seal since even if he could somehow trap the susanoo user and use the 8-trigram, it would simply seal the susanoo chakra surrounding the fighter, not the fighter himself.

Plus we know if Minato does absorb an attack, he has to stop and let the attack out at some point. He can't just leave attacks in his Barrier for whatever reason. That's why he had to let the TBB out. Even if he tried to throw it back at the opponent, the opponent could just counter attack it to negate it or again defend with susanoo or some sort of defense.

I don't think this combination is as good as you think it is.

You're mistaken bro. A barrier is a barrier. After the combination of seals is done then the barrier is up. The only difference is that Minato's barrier is a Space time tech. It was not said that he can't do a thing if he is activating the barrier. He can summon the throne as shown here:

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I can't see him doing hand signs when summoning the throne.

No... from what I can tell Minato needs his Kunai (with the FTG marking) to place the barrier and teleport the attacks to another location... its not done automatically. Plus, the barrier is only formed where his Kunai is. All it takes is a clone or something to attack from behind... this is so easy to counter lol.

Plus, the barrier is only formed where his Kunai is. All it takes is a clone or something to attack from behind... this is so easy to counter

What? LOL..Honestly bro, are you serious? You know what a barrier is right? If it's easy to get inside a barrier then how come only Madara can get past Konoha's barrier as mentioned by Minato? How come Sandaime didn't dig holes underground to be able to get through Kushina's barrier and help Minato? A barrier is a barrier. The only difference is that Minato's barrier can not only withstand an attack but can also redirect the attack.

 

[Draphsin]

You're mistaken bro. A barrier is a barrier. After the combination of seals is done then the barrier is up. The only difference is that Minato's barrier is a Space time tech. It was not said that he can't do a thing if he is activating the barrier. He can summon the throne as shown here:

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I can't see him doing hand signs when summoning the throne.


What? LOL..Honestly bro, are you serious? You know what a barrier is right? If it's easy to get inside a barrier then how come only Madara can get past Konoha's barrier as mentioned by Minato? How come Sandaime didn't dig holes underground to be able to get through Kushina's barrier and help Minato? A barrier is a barrier. The only difference is that Minato's barrier can not only withstand an attack but can also redirect the attack.

Minato has to remain

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in order to keep the barrier active. Notice that this is the only time that obito grabbed him? Meaning that this is his most vulnerable position

 

[iSpeak]

What? LOL..Honestly bro, are you serious? You know what a barrier is right? If it's easy to get inside a barrier then how come only Madara can get past Konoha's barrier as mentioned by Minato? How come Sandaime didn't dig holes underground to be able to get through Kushina's barrier and help Minato? A barrier is a barrier. The only difference is that Minato's barrier can not only withstand an attack but can also redirect the attack.

No, dont come with that "a barrier is a barrier" talk. Barrier work differently to other barrier's and by looking at Minato's S/T barrier, he needs to keep is kunai in place to position the barrier and direct the attacks. This is eviden't from his fight with the Kyuubi. Unless you think Minato was just holding his kunai up to look cool and impress the Kyuubi? You realise the S/T barrier is formed around his FTG seal right? If Minato is holding his Kunai infront of him, A. he has to stay still, B. he cant form seals and C. his whole back is exposed. Sorry but this is very simple to counter...

 

[ajpn920]

Minato has to remain

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in order to keep the barrier active. Notice that this is the only time that obito grabbed him? Meaning that this is his most vulnerable position

Obito got his space time tech too that's why he was able to get past konoha's barrier. Obito is different from the others because of his space time tech. If someone can easily get past through a barrier then Minato would not thought of this

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A barrier is not the same with shields like susanoo or gaara's sand where it only protects the user. Look how big the barrier is here:

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No, dont come with that "a barrier is a barrier" talk. Barrier work differently to other barrier's and by looking at Minato's S/T barrier, he needs to keep is kunai in place to position the barrier and direct the attacks. This is eviden't from his fight with the Kyuubi. Unless you think Minato was just holding his kunai up to look cool and impress the Kyuubi? You realise the S/T barrier is formed around his FTG seal right? If Minato is holding his Kunai infront of him, A. he has to stay still, B. he cant form seals and C. his whole back is exposed. Sorry but this is very simple to counter...

A. he has to stay still, B. he cant form seals and C. his whole back is exposed. Sorry but this is very simple to counter

Coming first at you that space time barrier is easy to counter because the back is exposed. great logic you have there. I can't argue with you on this if you believe that the barrier is only good at the front portion.

Can you give me an exact quote from the Manga where it is said the Minato needs to be stationary and can't do anything else once the barrier is up? Assumption without a tiny evidence. The only logical way to understand how it works is through the tech being labelled as a barrier.

You deny the fact of what a barrier can do and you assume that he has to be stationary and his back is exposed. If only you can give me evidence then I'll believe you. Don't give Tobi as an example because he can get in and out of a barrier because of his space time tech.

 

[Draphsin]

Obito got his space time tech too that's why he was able to get past konoha's barrier. Obito is different from the others because of his space time tech. If someone can easily get past through a barrier then Minato would not thought of this

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A barrier is not the same with shields like susanoo or gaara's sand where it only protects the user. Look how big the barrier is here:

Spoiler

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He needs to have the kunai facing the direction of his attack, he cant use any techniques because his hands are busy, A) holding up the kunai, and B) redirecting the attack.

Also, obito got behind minato

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he dispelled the barrier. Meaning that he is still vulnerable even after he uses it

 

[ajpn920]

He needs to have the kunai facing the direction of his attack, he cant use any techniques because his hands are busy, A) holding up the kunai, and B) redirecting the attack.

Also, obito got behind minato

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he dispelled the barrier. Meaning that he is still vulnerable even after he uses it

LOL. You mean he needs his hands to redirect an attack? All he has to do is to think where to send it. It was already proven. The ceremonial throne can be summoned with no difficulty.

As I have mentioned Obito can get past a barrier because of his S/T tech. If the barrier is being dispelled by Minato then it means that he has a control over it. It's up to him to dispel it or not. It does not mean that the barrier is good after one attack.

By the way, show me scan where his hands ARE busy when he actiavted STB. Just because he hold the kunais with both hands does not mean that he needed both hands in every occasion he activates the STB.

Logically speaking, what's the difference between holding the kunai with both hands and one hand? Does it make any difference. Just answer this.

 

[Troyg39]

You're mistaken bro. A barrier is a barrier. After the combination of seals is done then the barrier is up. The only difference is that Minato's barrier is a Space time tech. It was not said that he can't do a thing if he is activating the barrier. He can summon the throne as shown here:

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I can't see him doing hand signs when summoning the throne.

Dude he only caught the nine tails chakra because he was PINNED DOWN. That's a fact that you can't just simply overlook. He can summone the throne sure but he can't just simply take someone's chakra without catching them first.

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See the nine tails was chained down. Summoning the throne doesn't automatically trap anyone's chakra. Whether it's the demon seal or 8 trigram you have to have a stationary opponent to use either one of them.

And saying a barrier is a barrier actually does more to hurt your case than help it. If Minato just has a typicl barrier, that means that his barrier wouldn't be mobile. As you said once a barrier is up it's up right? Well what barrier do you know of that moves? So if Minato's Space-Time Barrier works like a normal one that means that it would only be covering one area and it couldn't be mobile. I among others have pointed out that Minato actually had to use his Kunai for his barrier but you refuted that. But even by your own definition it still doesn't work like you're trying to say because if Minato's barrier isn't done with his Kunai and is simply up automatically wherever he summons it, that would mean that if his opponent doesn't attack in the direction of the barrier he has no reason to worry about his attack being absorbed. This also hurts Minato because that would mean he would have to stay near the barrier in order for it to be of any use and provide him with cover and again, HOW IS HE GOING TO CATCH HIS OPPONENT TO SEAL HIS CHAKRA IF HE CAN'T EVEN MOVE AWAY FROM HIS OWN BARRIER?

 

[Draphsin]

By the way, show me scan where his hands ARE busy when he actiavted STB. Just because he hold the kunais with both hands does not mean that he needed both hands in every occasion he activates the STB.

Logically speaking, what's the difference between holding the kunai with both hands and one hand? Does it make any difference. Just answer this.

Fail, like i said minato needs to hold the kunai in the direction he wants to have his barrier....Thats what keeps his hands busy, sure he can use 1 hand to hold the kunai but he needs both to form seals.

 

[Troyg39]

LOL. You mean he needs his hands to redirect an attack? All he has to do is to think where to send it. It was already proven. The ceremonial throne can be summoned with no difficulty.

As I have mentioned Obito can get past a barrier because of his S/T tech. If the barrier is being dispelled by Minato then it means that he has a control over it. It's up to him to dispel it or not. It does not mean that the barrier is good after one attack.

By the way, show me scan where his hands ARE busy when he actiavted STB. Just because he hold the kunais with both hands does not mean that he needed both hands in every occasion he activates the STB.

Logically speaking, what's the difference between holding the kunai with both hands and one hand? Does it make any difference. Just answer this.

Dude you're starting to just argue for no reason like did you even go back and look at the events that you are talking about?

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The first page shows him using BOTH HANDS to form the seals for the STB.

The second page shows him using BOTH HANDS to hold his Kunai in place, which is CLEARLY where the STB is originating from. He is even holding the Kunai in a weird way. It looks like he is holding the Kunai with a hand sign. Why else would he hold it like that if didn't have to? After that, on the same page you see him say that he has to figure out where to put the blast.

The third page shows that he clearly teleported to a different location, meaning he had to actually take the blast away. He didn't just think where to send it dude. When he absorbed the TBB on the 2nd page he was standing on top of the Hokage faces. On the third page he isn't there anymore. I think you should seriously look over chapters 500-505 again

 

[iSpeak]

Coming first at you that space time barrier is easy to counter because the back is exposed. great logic you have there. I can't argue with you on this if you believe that the barrier is only good at the front portion.



Can you give me an exact quote from the Manga where it is said the Minato needs to be stationary and can't do anything else once the barrier is up? Assumption without a tiny evidence. The only logical way to understand how it works is through the tech being labelled as a barrier.



You deny the fact of what a barrier can do and you assume that he has to be stationary and his back is exposed. If only you can give me evidence then I'll believe you. Don't give Tobi as an example because he can get in and out of a barrier because of his space time tech.

Like I said in my above post, "from what I can tell" this is how it works. And from looking at the responses to your thread, there are others who think the same as me.

Minato is seen holding his kunai up and the barrier is infront of the kunai, correct? Then obviously I and many other with sense would assume he needs to have his kunai in place to position and redirect the attacks... you haven't even tried to counter it and explain why in the world Minato would have his kunai raised for no reason.

And im sorry to tell you this, but different barrier work in different ways for different things. Obviously his tech is a barrier because it teleports away incoming attacks, but how does it being a barrier mean he doesn't need his FTG marking to use it? So since you were the one who created this thread, then you have to be the one to bring proof to the table. You need to make sure you know exactly how a technique works before making a thread like this.

 

[ajpn920]

You're mistaken bro. A barrier is a barrier. After the combination of seals is done then the barrier is up. The only difference is that Minato's barrier is a Space time tech. It was not said that he can't do a thing if he is activating the barrier. He can summon the throne as shown here:

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I can't see him doing hand signs when summoning the throne.
QUOTE]

Dude he only caught the nine tails chakra because he was PINNED DOWN. That's a fact that you can't just simply overlook. He can summone the throne sure but he can't just simply take someone's chakra without catching them first.

Spoiler

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See the nine tails was chained down. Summoning the throne doesn't automatically trap anyone's chakra. Whether it's the demon seal or 8 trigram you have to have a stationary opponent to use either one of them.

And saying a barrier is a barrier actually does more to hurt your case than help it. If Minato just has a typicl barrier, that means that his barrier wouldn't be mobile. As you said once a barrier is up it's up right? Well what barrier do you know of that moves? So if Minato's Space-Time Barrier works like a normal one that means that it would only be covering one area and it couldn't be mobile. I among others have pointed out that Minato actually had to use his Kunai for his barrier but you refuted that. But even by your own definition it still doesn't work like you're trying to say because if Minato's barrier isn't done with his Kunai and is simply up automatically wherever he summons it, that would mean that if his opponent doesn't attack in the direction of the barrier he has no reason to worry about his attack being absorbed. This also hurts Minato because that would mean he would have to stay near the barrier in order for it to be of any use and provide him with cover and again, HOW IS HE GOING TO CATCH HIS OPPONENT TO SEAL HIS CHAKRA IF HE CAN'T EVEN MOVE AWAY FROM HIS OWN BARRIER?

The barrier is a barrier thing means that what it can actually do. We know what a barrier can do. That is only to settle Ispeaks case that Minato's barrier is only good at the front. Any anime's i've seen, there's no such thing as a barrier protecting only a certain part like the front. Only you guys are assuming that it can only protect Minato from a certain part just to undermine it's capability. That's purely assumption because there's no way you can back it up but me can use the barrier thing of what it can really do.

See the nine tails was chained down. Summoning the throne doesn't automatically trap anyone's chakra. Whether it's the demon seal or 8 trigram you have to have a stationary opponent to use either one of them

By the way, About being stationary, Kushina made the barrier before Minato told her his plan of using 8 trigrams proven here:

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that's page 13 of chapter 503 and finally revealing his plans here:

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chapter 503 p.17.

Now, is it really needed for the target to be stationary? OR it's just you assuming that? Manga scans tells nothing about being stationary to be able to seal a target.

Like I said in my above post, "from what I can tell" this is how it works. And from looking at the responses to your thread, there are others who think the same as me.

Minato is seen holding his kunai up and the barrier is infront of the kunai, correct? Then obviously I and many other with sense would assume he needs to have his kunai in place to position and redirect the attacks... you haven't even tried to counter it and explain why in the world Minato would have his kunai raised for no reason.

And im sorry to tell you this, but different barrier work in different ways for different things. Obviously his tech is a barrier because it teleports away incoming attacks, but how does it being a barrier mean he doesn't need his FTG marking to use it? So since you were the one who created this thread, then you have to be the one to bring proof to the table. You need to make sure you know exactly how a technique works before making a thread like this.

Minato is seen holding his kunai up and the barrier is infront of the kunai, correct? Then obviously I and many other with sense would assumehe needs to have his kunai in place to position and redirect the attacks... you haven't even tried to counter it and explain why in the world Minato would have his kunai raised for no reason.

Now, that's coming from you that you are only assuming based on what you have seen. Can you solve cases by just your eyes alone? By just of what you've seen alone? Sometimes, we need to use our brain to analyze things. In here, you are arguing me because you ASSUMEthat Minato's barrier can only protect him at the front because that's what you saw.

You conclude based on one example only? We'll if I ask you if you can show me a scan that Minato can't defend an attack coming from his back, can you actually provide it?

Questions, what difference can it make if Minato holds his kunai with both hands or with one hand? Can you answer this one? Can he not activate the barrier if he is holding with only one hand. If indeed he can activate it with one hand, can't he use the other hand to summon? Does the throne needs hand seals to be summoned?

By the way, out of the many barriers i've seen in different shows, I haven't seen a barrier protecting a certain part only like a front portion and not the back and sides. I will also ASSUME that a barrier can protect not only with the front part but the back as well, right?

So, just because Minato is facing the TBB makes him protect only his front part. This is ridiculous to conclude that his barrier is limited to protecting his front part alone. With only one example, you can't make such conclusion.

Now, if both of us assumes then who's right and wrong? You think you are right because of one example only, or you think I'm right because I can give many?