The Necromancer
Active member
So you believe that MS Obito and Edo Madara are faster than Bijuu Mode Naruto's Shunshin blitz. Got it.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Can Sasuke travel faster than sound?
- Thread starter Jiren
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Thanks for clearing that up.
TheSages456
Active member
Never even said this nor does my statement imply this, but I guess I was expecting too much when I thought people would read my posts properly.
King Of Pop
Active member
was gonna say the same thing. apparently losing a shit ton of chakra wont affect your physical stats because the character didnt say so lmao
The Necromancer
Active member
Did BM Naruto blitz Obito or Madara? No? Then by your logic he couldn't.
Seems to work, doesn't it?
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TheSages456
Active member
This is exactly what you said:
Tell me how Naruto not being able to blitz Obito or Madara means that they are faster than him?
Naruto can't blitz either. That is correct.
Woozadamus
Member
The Necromancer
Active member
The very fact that you have responded with these words proves to me that you will not comprehend my logic, especially if you can't even see the flaws in your own logic.
It's already useless to try if you believe Bijuu Mode Naruto is slower than MS Obito or Edo Madara. That's absolutely laughable.
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Are you really using Shin as an argument? Maybe you forgot the part where Sasuke wanted to capture Shin alive? Sasuke literally caught Shin before he could turn his head back.
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Words of Naruto:
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TheSages456
Active member
Yup, it's hopeless since you can't properly comprehend basic English.
Nothing more for me to say here if you can't understand that Naruto not being capable of blitzing Obito or Madara would not mean that either of the 2 are equal to or greater than him in speed.
You do realize that you read manga top to down & right to left, correct?
The page clearly shows Shin turning his head back, then looking straight again to see Perfect Susano'o in front of him. Perfect Susano'o then grabs him.
Don't know why Sasuke wanting Shin alive is relevant since that wouldn't make him move any slower. I never even claimed that Shin was a threat to full power Sasuke anyway.
Sasuke admitted that his eye powers had to recuperate because Kaguya's Dimension consumed a large amount of his chakra meaning that he was chakra depleted which we know diminishes his physicality. He doesn't need to be panting or showing signs of exhaustion to suggest it, much like how MS Sasuke and MS Kakashi at the Kage Summit didn't show signs of exhaustion such as panting or sweating during specific points in the manga yet it was clear that they were exhausted as well. This doesn't even need to be stated when we know being chakra depleted causes one's physicality to tank considerably.
Not even sure why you think Sasuke's rather incapable of dealing with Shin in terms of speed when Base Sakura could. Seems more logical that he was fatigued to be honest and suggesting otherwise would imply that Shin is Juubi Jin level which is fine by me if that's what you honestly believe. If not, then you're being intellectually dishonest and in denial of Sasuke's own speed feats.
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TheSages456
Active member
Physical stats don't tank simply by using chakra. This just seems like an excuse. The author simply isn't portraying Sasuke on the level that you think that he is on. That isn't the author's problem, it's a problem with your own bias.
Neither Kakashi or Sasuke were exhausted during their scuffle and neither were implied, stated or visually shown have stunted stats. There literally isn't anything to debate here.
Your argument isn't based on any tangible evidence because there is none implying that Sasuke was weakened outside of his eye powers. Drop this nonsense and stop wasting my time.
Shin dealing with Sasuke's lunge would imply that he can fight on the Kage level bracket, not that he can fight on the level of a Ten Tails' jinchuriki.
The only "speed feat" that you fanboys bring up is one where Madara deliberately lets himself get cut since he is more concerned with getting his other eye as per his own statement.
This would of course ignore the fact that Madara could dodge Sasuke while blind without the Ten Tails and the fact that Sasuke couldn't touch Madara when he came back with his other eye with the intent to fight.
That's flat out denial. I stated that being chakra depleted causes one's stats to tank, not simply just using chakra and evidence throughout the manga suggests that chakra depletion does indeed weaken someone physically. That's not even up for debate.
As for your next paragraph, you're being intellectually dishonest.
Look here:
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Kakashi just used Kamui and yet isn't suffering from physical symptoms such as sweating or panting excessively yet here:
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He's physically weakened and can hardly move properly. Obviously, what you're suggesting is completely wrong. Just because Sasuke did not display any physical symptoms doesn't imply that he wasn't weakened in any way.
Likewise for Sasuke, he was shown to not display any physical symptoms:
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Yet later, it's made completely obvious that he was depleted because he could hardly maintain a RibCage Susano'o afterwards. What you're implying is being intellectually dishonest and completely wrong. Don't tell me to stop wasting your time when you don't know what you're talking about to begin with.
Yeah, no. Madara claimed he was fast and Sasuke could compete with RSM Naruto physically who was compared to Juubi Jin Madara, so what you're claiming here and implying is intellectually dishonest. What's ridiculous is you're sitting here arguing this yet Sakura herself could compete with Shin and his clones for a notable period of time. Are you implying that Sasuke is slower than Base Sakura? Please, just stop.
As for the rest, that was EMS Sasuke, not Rikudou Sasuke who was obviously faster.
TheSages456
Active member
:|
Did Gaiden Sasuke show any of the symptoms that Kakashi showed such as stumbling? Didn't think so.
That within itself wouldn't even imply that his stats were weakened. Kakashi ran full speed, then stumbled, then proceeded to perform normally after he had adjusted.
This is an example of someones stats being shot.
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If Sasuke didn't show any symptoms and there is no statement from Sasuke or anyone else that he was weakened in such a manner, then you don't have an argument. What's so hard to understand here?
You absolutely are wasting my time, because you just keep making assumption after assumption since you can't post a single panel indicating that Sasuke's stats were weakened during the Gaiden.
Why would Sasuke be slower than Sakura just because Shin can catch his blade in CQC? Makes no sense, but I can't say that I'm surprised.
I don't remember Sasuke fighting Six Paths Sage mode Naruto equally in CQC. He clashed evenly with Base Naruto though, whom is far below a plethora of shinobi.
The Rinnegan doesn't make Sasuke faster either so that's irrelevant as well. He isn't "Six Paths Sasuke". Some strong fanboyism right there :lol
He possesses no Six Paths power except for his Rinnegan. Don't really remember the manga calling Rinnegan Madara without the Ten Tails, "Six Paths Madara" or Rinnegan Obito without the Ten Tails, "Six Paths Obito"
neosmith500
Active member
In order to Awaken the Rinnegan u need a more potent and powerful chakra in the form of Hago's Chakra , the more powerful and potent the chakra , the better stats simlarly to kuramas chakra.
Sasuke merely having Rinnagan shows that his Chakra evolved to new levels and his physical feats in Boruto cements it.
Take CM Sasuke for example , we know that the CM forcefully pulls out all the users Chakra/Power , which in tern boost stats and gives a more powerful chakra.
The same thing happens with the Sharingan and its stages , with each stage boosting the potency and Chakra/power of the user, which then evolves the eyes. For example VOTE1 2T Sasuke Gained a stronger Chakra due to his determination , which resulted in his sharingan maturing into 3T.
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After this increase in power Sasuke noted that his body was the same as when he's usin the Curse Mark , showing that his base body was now stronger than it was before 3T.
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This will surely convince u or make u silently concede.:flakez:
OT; Yes , much faster.
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TheSages456
Active member
All Hagoromo did was power up one of Sasuke's eyes by giving his chakra to one of them. Sasuke didn't get a stat boost just like Madara didn't get a stat boost.
If you think that Sasuke possesses all of Hagoromo's Yin chakra, then you're wrong. That chakra was already shown to be in the seals that Hagoromo gave them.
The Rinnegan's chakra doesn't boost physical stats. It increases eye power.
No
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Darth AniCetuS
Active member
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To start with, I'm thankful you actually admitted that Kakashi was actually weakened, so I'll accept your concession right there.
Second of all, you completely missed the point. Individuals can easily be physically weakened despite showing no physical symptoms at the time. Whether or not Kakashi actually stumbled is irrelevant, what's actually relevant is that before even moving, he displayed no physical symptoms that would give the implication that he was weakened. If anything, you're suggesting that Sasuke's physical stats weren't as shot as kakashi's, but that doesn't imply that he wasn't weakened at all. Chakra depletion has been implied to decrease one's speed as was the case with Haku, SM Naruto, and Kaguya and since chakra literally encompasses the basis of one's speed, I find it rather intellectually dishonest that Sasuke wasn't weakened at all.
What you're doing here is taking the manga literally, assuming that something that was not stated means that isn't true which is faulty logic. There is such a thing as as making inferences which in this case, is making logical conclusions based on evidence presented in the manga. If there are multiple examples showing that chakra depletion hinders one's stats and literally shows that chakra literally plays a massive role in one's physicality, then I honestly have no reason to believe that Sasuke wasn't weakened at all despite it not actually being stated. There's more evidence suggesting that he was compared to evidence suggesting that he wasn't. The only thing you have to fall back on is that "it wasn't stated" which is bullshit and ignores things already established in the manga.
How am I not surprised you're twisting it as if I actually stated this? What I said was that believing that Sasuke was at Full Power against Shin implies that he's physically inferior to Base Sakura because Sakura could contend with multiple Shin Clones and Shin himself whereas Shin easily tagged Sasuke's weapon. Am I implying that Sasuke was at Full Power? No. Are you implying that Sasuke was at Full Power? Yes. So logically, if Shin could compete with Sasuke whereas Sakura could compete with Shin and his clones, then that means you're implying that Base Sakura is on par with Sasuke at the very least which is you being intellectually dishonest.
Why am I not surprised that you're actually denying this?
Why am I not surprised?
Yeah, but no. Sasuke easily showed that he could keep up with RSM Naruto seeing how he could literally form a logical conclusion on Limbo's abilities based on how RSM Naruto was fighting against Madara and his Limbo clone and even displayed equivalent reactions when he could maneuver as fast as RSM Naruto in order to seal Kaguya.
The Chakra within his body that produces the Rinnegan does.
Actually, Madara was referred to as the 2nd of the Six Paths, so he literally is Six Paths Madara to be technical. Sasuke did possess Six Paths Power as in order to awaken your own Dojutsu, your body has to produce the chakra first, so since Sasuke awakened his own Rinnegan, it's logical that his body produces Rikudou's Chakra within his body.
TheSages456
Active member
Concession accepted. This is the second time that I've asked you to post any panel hinting that Sasuke's stats were shot to any degree during the Gaiden and you have failed to provide any. No statement, no panel, nothing.
Your hunch based on subjective reasoning isn't evidence.
I never said Kakashi's stats tanked. I blatantly stated in my post that Kakashi stumbled, then performed as he normally did.
He collapsed right after using Kamui on BM Naruto's clone,
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This point is done. I'm tired of shooting this nonsensical argument of yours down when all of my points can be substantiated by direct statements and yours cannot.
You can't show any panel, yet somehow you're still claiming that you're right, so this point isn't getting any more of my attention. Moving on.
Nah, Sasuke wasn't at full power. Full eye power that is. Where did you see Sakura fight Shin w/ his clones? When we see them fighting, the original is fighting Sakura while the clones are on standby near a rock.
Sasuke's performance is undoubtedly superior since he didn't get hit during his fight while Sakura did.
And this doesn't change the fact that he clashed evenly with base Naruto.
This is desperate reaching since both of them jumping at Kaguya doesn't imply that they are equal in all physical parameters and neither does Sasuke analyzing Madara's Limbo.
You know what does imply equality? Them clashing evenly.
His body doesn't possess any "Rinnegan producing chakra". Hagoromo's chakra was blatantly shown to be in the seals by Kaguya's Byakugan.
His Rinnegan is stated to be directly received from Hagoromo. Hagoromo merely infused his chakra into Sasuke's left eye, which initiated it's transformation into the Rinnegan.
Not really sure how one could see that his right eye is still a Sharingan and claim something so asinine.
So Kakashi naturally produces the chakra that evolves the Sharingan into the Mangekyo Sharingan?
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The chakra that produced Sasuke's Rinnegan was infused into his left eye, not in the manner that you keep trying to imply, which is that Sasuke's chakra is basically Hagoromo's now, which isn't even possible.
Madara doesn't possess the chakra in this manner either. His natural reserves are never implied to be the of the same type as Hagoromo, only that the awakened chakra went to the formation of the Rinnegan.
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