can an air fist palm cause an instant death ?

[Hakke]

how does that matter then.Neji was out for a kill he would have opted for a kill shot rather than just blowing kisame away

if Neji killed Kisame , there would be no 6th gates gai vs Kisame

so plot :sdo:, p.l.o.t , PLOT

yes gai did not opt to kill him since he wanted to extract information from him thus he survived the punch that was not kill him anyway.how hard is that to comprehend

ignorance , the punch have done impact , I.M.P.A.C.T , IMPACT that is even greater than the air fist palm

so basically according to you gai's kicks and punches;naruto's kick;kunai's will affect him but vaccum palm won't
if bold was ever the case either DB or manga would have mentioned it

Kisame's body has been nvr said to be armoured or it wasn't even remotely implied to be armoredyes he super strength and durability but Punches and kicks have shown to make him cough blood.Kunai and chakra enhanced blade have made him bleed
it was not even remotely implied that his vitals were not hurt becoz of sharkskin

yes , but as you can see here , he was able to tank Hirudora and right after it he was able to tank a forceful 7th gate punch , so common sense tells me ,that he is armored and his body got unimaginable durability , based of the look of his skin and based on what is he able to tank (my theory),and that a simple air palm is nothing compared to what he is able to tank

and lets also put it to a realistic points of view , if you punch a shark with your fist , it would cause Zero Damage , but you can still kill a shark with a spear

vacuum palm a.k.a air fist palm cause physical impact or blunt force (not very sure) to get through the skin to the Vital points , but punches and sharp blades cause external damage

again , lets put it to a realistic point of view , you can't strike the vital points of someone who is armored but you can still stab him

now I don't know if the air fist palm got through to his Vital points or not , but even if it did , it would not kill him .

it depends on what vital points are stroke , not every Vital point is fatal if you strike it , but some of them can cause an unimaginable Pain , and some of them can lead to an instant death , and some of them are just "...meh"

which was not the case here again

how can you be sure , when Itachi was using Susanoo , it was stained by Sasuke that he felt an unimaginable Pain ,

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but Itachi didn't look like it ,

you can't really be sure , if someone is feeling Pain or not , a small injuries , can easily be dealt with ,

ex : if my finger bled , I can easily deal with it , I would still feel Pain , but I may not look like it

and BTW not every Vital point is fatal if you strike it , but some of them can cause an unimaginable Pain , and some of them can lead to an instant death , and some of them are just "...meh"

and BTW , everyone can strike the Vital points , not just the Hyugas , rock lee can strike it since he is a skilled martial artist , Sakura can locate it since she is a medical Ninja , and since the Vital points can also used in medicine

but the Hyuga strikes are more precise and accurate since they have the Byakugan

and BTW , a hard hit on the head =/= a hard hit on the Vital points

a vital point is a just a small spot near the surface of the Human body , when attacked in the right way (force, angle, accuracy), can cause paralysis, unconsciousness or even death

I will agree i missed that

it is really nice that you found my theory convincing *_*

yes i will agree to this part but it is not happening in heat of battle since
1.its just like saying a ninja with kunai can someone with stab in head so he gets the win
2.hyuga's have never opted for it.nor they have opted for striking pressure points in middle of battle.kisame had shown zero pain after being hit by it so we can't be certain it will be the case

1. actually the vacuum palm is short to mid , and it is fast and forceful strike that hits the vital points , and if it strikes the vitals point GV that is in the base of the brain , it would lead to an instant death ,

air fist palm

To perform it, the user precisely pinpoints the enemy's vital points with the Byakugan and releases a high-speed palm thrust. A "vacuum shell" compressed using the Gentle Fist is formed to attack the opponent's vitals from a distance, blowing them off their feet with tremendous force before they even notice they were hit

2.Neji did hit Kisame fast with it before he was able to realize he was stroke

and Hinata was able to strike fast with it

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it is short to mid , and it is fast ,

a normal Ninja would not be able to dodge it in close-range fights ,only people like (3rd Raikage , Minato/Tobiram ,lighting KCM Naruto) and a sharingan user had a chance though

but a normal Ninja have a small chance to dodge it in mid fight , and it would be really hard to hit a sharingan user with it

but it is just short to mid, that's why I said that Hinata had no chance against Sakura in long-ranged fights

and @bold , Kisame was smiling after he tanked Bee's lareint

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and he was able to break free right after he tanked Gai hirudora and a 7th gate punch , and he bitten his tongue

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and he was smiling when he was getting eaten by sharks , like WTF!!

does he even feel pain ? :|

 

[neosmith500]

Neji didn't have the chance to aim at his head

and if Neji killed Kisame , there would be no 6th gates gai vs Kisame

so plot :sdo:, p.l.o.t , PLOT
|

Neji not having a chance to aim for the head makes no logical sense at all , tho i do agree that the instance was plot.

if your question is , "does the Vital points exist in the NV?",
yes they do exist in the NV , ask Sasuke about it

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Nope i asked Sasuke and he said Chakra points.

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2.Neji did hit Kisame fast with it before he was able to realize he was stroke

and Hinata was able to strike fast with it

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Nice point here since we see that the spike didn't move an inch inbetween the time Hinata prepped and launched her Air-palm and the spike was already literally close to point-blank range which shows that its execution and rate of travel is Ultra fast as noted by the Daatabook..

 

[Hakke]

Nope i asked Sasuke and he said Chakra points.

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is that the right translation ? I am not very sure

 

[BLAZE]

.......

No, Wait, pretty sure if you shoved a Kunai down his throat, he'd die...

Not instantly though, so you got me there...

no he won't.he was said to be impenetrable [

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] that could damaged only by his own nukite

---

I think the user simply injects Chakra via their finger-tips while the Twin Lions remain active. The Lion tech itself is wat drains the Chakra so the user doesn't have to do any form of drainage themselves as the Jutsu while active simply drains without the user having to do anything but connect their hits and maintain Chakra control.

Won't the fingers need skin contact then which seems impossible when you have your arm covered by chakra sapping lion heads [

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Im assuming that ur likening this similar to Preta path absorbing Chakra while simultaneously expelling chakra being a possible similar problem for Twin Lion?

yes since chakra absorbtion causes the body's chakra circulation to flow in reverse

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Remember that i also said this in the Sakura thread so i share a somewat similar opinion tho Gentle fist attacks are different than the purely physical kind so i think TW follows that same example route only slightly different but still internal damage based opposed to external since it attacks the Network similar to Jyuken so i think TW simply drains + damages the Network itself just like Jyuken specifically attacking the Network with the simple difference being that TW also absorbs the enemies Chakra when it makes contact with it , unlike basic jyuken. So baiscally TW is somewat of a active Jyuken on the palms which operates as a advance Jyuken.

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well till now i thought the same but after discussion with you on that thread i realised

1.If chakra absorption is reverse flow of chakra how is injection of chakra gonna take place
2.How is the user making skin contact if the the chakra absorbing lion is cover both of the hand

TW + 64 palms seems like something meant to destroy the enemy and leave them without Chakra or life at all.

not denying this.but 64 palms is meant for blocking chakra points so that user can't use while TWL saps it away.counterproductive
also nowhere in the db entry of TWL it says it says it is for internal damage but emphasis to user's range and destructive power

-Ever since the day i first saw 64 Palm , it was always redundant to me since a single Tenketsu or few hits can end the fight + block Chakra without having to take stances and wat not with all these being perfect examples..

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But kidomaru was also hurt even before it adter falling directly through branches [

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]but didn't die till here [

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well by done for neji would have meant he lost since hinata did survived similiar hit

Heck even if one disregards Himewari's feat as comedy it doesn't change the fact that the location where she had struck was actually the center Tenketsu where chakra is networked theoughout the body which is the belly at the beginning of the spiral..

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but if go by comic feat it completely ignores the neji vs naruto that showed kurama chakra unblocking the points and neji despite being the genius blocking 64 of naruto's tenketsu including the stomach one himawari would had hit [

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So i think TW combined with 64p is basiaclly a redundant combo and it doesn't effectively mean TW requires anywhere close to 64 hits same as basic jyuken compared to 64 palms where a glance or direct hit is enough.

it is still combined with 64 palms and so thats why i thought it is more of an absorbtion jutsu than internal damage one since applying it with 64 palms would allow the user to sap out a massive amount of chakra from the body while effective physically damaging him/her

 

[BLAZE]

Nope i asked Sasuke and he said Chakra points.

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interesting so does that mean vital points here are used for chakra points.since VIZ used the word chakra point [

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does this scan prove sasuke can see chakra point :snick:

BTW , just what to point out , that the preta path absorb the chakra from the jutsu , while TWL drain it from the chakra network

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will reply to rest of your post later on[tomorrow] since i have to make my CV

 

[neosmith500]

Won't the fingers need skin contact then which seems impossible when you have your arm covered by chakra sapping lion heads [

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No because as i said , the Lions would bypass the skin which is why the two moves can be used simultaneously in the first place.

yes since chakra absorbtion causes the body's chakra circulation to flow in reverse

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Only preta path works different as its the Lion Fist itself that saps the chakra and not the user actively trying to sap the chakra.

-Even the destription clearly says "This Jutsu" which doesn't mean its the same for "Every Jutsu" that does something similar.

well till now i thought the same but after discussion with you on that thread i realised

1.If chakra absorption is reverse flow of chakra how is injection of chakra gonna take place
2.How is the user making skin contact if the the chakra absorbing lion is cover both of the hand

1. TW combined with 64 proves that it doesn't work the same as Preta.

2.Lions go through the Skin which means the users fingers still make direct contact with the enemy.

3.If Twin Lion was external based then the Lions would block the use of 64palms and since it doesn't it clearly shows that TW goes right through/into the skin..

not denying this.but 64 palms is meant for blocking chakra points so that user can't use while TWL saps it away.counterproductive

Which contradicts the manga as Hinata clearly used both simultaneously.

also nowhere in the db entry of TWL it says it says it is for internal damage but emphasis to user's range and destructive power

The mere fact that 64 palms can be used simultanously with 64 palms should show u that the Lions pass through the skin and affects internally.

But kidomaru was also hurt even before it adter falling directly through branches

I know but i was just showing u that 64 palms isn't needed to block the flow of all chakra as Neji did so without 64 palms.

well by done for neji would have meant he lost since hinata did survived similiar hit

Yea but we cant say that Neji pumped enough chakra into his first strike to kill Hinata then and there and its the same for Naruto who he repeatably said he didn't want to kill. More chakra = more damage.

but if go by comic feat it completely ignores the neji vs naruto that showed kurama chakra unblocking the points and neji despite being the genius blocking 64 of naruto's tenketsu including the stomach one himawari would had hit [

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It doesn't really ignore it but more so shows why things like 64 palms is redundant since Neji did the same without without it and the only part that truly is comedy is Himewari hitting Naruto , but logically these events did take place where she did wat she did with a single strike so one cant even view the hit and after effects of the hit as comedy.

it is still combined with 64 palms and so thats why i thought it is more of an absorbtion jutsu than internal damage one since applying it with 64 palms would allow the user to sap out a massive amount of chakra from the body while effective physically damaging him/her

Well it all adds up to this..
1. Twin Lion is internal since the Lions have to bypass the skin for the users fingers to make direct contact with the enemy while the Jutsu remains active simultaneously.

2.Twin Lion has destructive capability which based on the above would logically hint to something akin to Jyuken type of damage.

interesting so does that mean vital points here are used for chakra points.since VIZ used the word chakra point [

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does this scan prove sasuke can see chakra point :snick:

is that the right translation ? I am not very sure

Vital points make more sense to me but Chakra points also works but vital makes more sense since it restricted the hawk from flight , but meh loland no Sasuke just made a hypothesis.

 

[Hakke]

interesting so does that mean vital points here are used for chakra points.since VIZ used the word chakra point [

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] while others call it vital points [

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it could be since ‎点穴 (tenketsu) literally meaning: pressure point , but I don't know ,there is also Synonym which is 急所(Kyūsho) literally meaning: vital point

and the Databook and the Narutopedia in air fist palm said "Vital points" , while in 64 palm it said "Tenketsu" , so I doubt it

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oh , okay , I was wrong then

 

[Hakke]

will reply to rest of your post later on[tomorrow] since i have to make my CV

okay , have a nice day

 

[To Whatever]

no he won't.he was said to be impenetrable [

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] that could damaged only by his own nukite

---

Won't the fingers need skin contact then which seems impossible when you have your arm covered by chakra sapping lion heads [

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][

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]

yes since chakra absorbtion causes the body's chakra circulation to flow in reverse

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well till now i thought the same but after discussion with you on that thread i realised

1.If chakra absorption is reverse flow of chakra how is injection of chakra gonna take place
2.How is the user making skin contact if the the chakra absorbing lion is cover both of the hand


not denying this.but 64 palms is meant for blocking chakra points so that user can't use while TWL saps it away.counterproductive
also nowhere in the db entry of TWL it says it says it is for internal damage but emphasis to user's range and destructive power


But kidomaru was also hurt even before it adter falling directly through branches [

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]but didn't die till here [

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].Also he explicitly stated he can't use chakra [

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] most likely sice he exhausted himself [

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].


well by done for neji would have meant he lost since hinata did survived similiar hit



but if go by comic feat it completely ignores the neji vs naruto that showed kurama chakra unblocking the points and neji despite being the genius blocking 64 of naruto's tenketsu including the stomach one himawari would had hit [

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]


it is still combined with 64 palms and so thats why i thought it is more of an absorbtion jutsu than internal damage one since applying it with 64 palms would allow the user to sap out a massive amount of chakra from the body while effective physically damaging him/her

So given that he doesn't have raiton armor on, shoving a kunai down a orifice made for entering and exiting is impossible because he's said to be impenetrable.

Interesting.

 

[BLAZE]

The mere fact that 64 palms can be used simultanously with 64 palms should show u that the Lions pass through the skin and affects internally.

I see

I know but i was just showing u that 64 palms isn't needed to block the flow of all chakra as Neji did so without 64 palms.

or it could be the case that kido was almost out of chakra [

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] since he strained the part he had let this fight go too far

Yea but we cant say that Neji pumped enough chakra into his first strike to kill Hinata then and there and its the same for Naruto who he repeatably said he didn't want to kill. More chakra = more damage.

yes but after that hinata was at her limits and would have been done with on e attack [

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] and was still standing after a second hit on her face [

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] then a third one [

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] and did not fade till 2 pages later.
Hinata there was weak compared to most of the jounin and kage lvl shinobi's in part 2 who have shown massive amount of resistence.so i doubt gentel fist will be ending them in one hit

It doesn't really ignore it but more so shows why things like 64 palms is redundant since Neji did the same without without it and the only part that truly is comedy is Himewari hitting Naruto , but logically these events did take place where she did wat she did with a single strike so one cant even view the hit and after effects of the hit as comedy.

Kido was coughing blood after that strike.he was still conscious for good amount of time while here we all can see The bigger point is kurama not opening naruto's chakra point and him fainting quickly.Thus it was comic scene like part sakura punching naruto to a good distance despite being superweak

Well it all adds up to this..
1. Twin Lion is internal since the Lions have to bypass the skin for the users fingers to make direct contact with the enemy while the Jutsu remains active simultaneously.
2.Twin Lion has destructive capability which based on the above would logically hint to something akin to Jyuken type of damage.

i see

Vital points make more sense to me but Chakra points also works but vital makes more sense since it restricted the hawk from flight , but meh loland no Sasuke just made a hypothesis.

well it does works similiar as sasuke's own jutsu and sasuke's sharingan has already shown to see nanosized bombs[

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Chidori* Senbon** (千鳥千本, Chidori Senbon)
Ninjutsu, A-rank, Offensive, Short to mid-range (0-10m)
User: Uchiha Sasuke

Assaulting the enemy with a "Chidori," shaped into flock of thousands of needles!!

This is also a variety of "Chidori" "shape transformation". The same technique as the pinnacle of Lightning nature, it is specialised in more speed, by being transformed into countless sharp "senbon," all aimed and fired at the enemy. As this flock of dazzling needles soars, the chakra gives off a sound like "chichichi," really making it seem like a thousand birds! It can become even more effective by using it together with the "Sharingan," allowing one to precisely shoot for the enemy's vitals.

[picture of Sasuke shooting out his Chidori Senbon]
↑By increasing the amount of chakra used, the number of "senbon" also increases!

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it could be , but I don't know , the Databook and the Narutopedia in air fist palm said "Vital points" , while in 64 palm it said "Tenketsu" , so I doubt it

Both are translated by fans while VIZ is official translation.Dunno if someone has VIZ of DB or not

---

So given that he doesn't have raiton armor on, shoving a kunai down a orifice made for entering and exiting is impossible because he's said to be impenetrable.

Interesting.

good luck with that KH part 2

 

[Hakke]

Both are translated by fans while VIZ is official translation.Dunno if someone has VIZ of DB or not

read my edited post again , it will make sense now

it could be since ‎点穴 (tenketsu) literally meaning: pressure point , but I don't know ,there is also Synonym which is 急所(Kyūsho) literally meaning: vital point

and the Databook and the Narutopedia in air fist palm said "Vital points" , while in 64 palm it said "Tenketsu" , so I doubt it

maybe in the Databook of the air fist palm they used the word " 急所(Kyūsho)" which literally meaning: vital point , maybe that's why there is difference in translation

maybe they are using the word 点穴 (tenketsu) for chakra point and the word 急所(Kyūsho) for Vital point

 

[Hakke]

Kido was coughing blood after that strike.he was still conscious for good amount of time while here we all can see The bigger point is kurama not opening naruto's chakra point and him fainting quickly.Thus it was comic scene like part sakura punching naruto to a good distance despite being superweak

I don't think that it was only just for comic relieve, since Hinata was able to realize the attack , and how much time for Naruto to regain consciousness

and @bold , are you sure?

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[neosmith500]

or it could be the case that kido was almost out of chakra [

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] since he strained the part he had let this fight go too far

Kido made no notes about being low on chakra as Neji did and being low on chakra doesn't mean he wouldn't still be able to use chakra at all when he clearly tried to but failed.

-He could not use chakra or channel chakra because his points were blocked. He said he let the fight drag on too long simply because it ended up biting him in the butt..

yes but after that hinata was at her limits and would have been done with on e attack [

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] and was still standing after a second hit on her face [

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] then a third one [

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] and did not fade till 2 pages later.
Hinata there was weak compared to most of the jounin and kage lvl shinobi's in part 2 who have shown massive amount of resistence.so i doubt gentel fist will be ending them in one hit

Again this harkens back to wat i said about more chakra = more damage which means that a Neji dead-set on killing someone can expel more chakra directly into the organ thats struck..

-Hinata was at her limit after a indirect strike not meant to kill and even after she got a direct hit to her heart it still easy to deduce that Neji could've added more chakra into his hits to just straight up kill her and be done with it..

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-So yea these instances dont exactly mean that Jyuken cant one-shot.

Kido was coughing blood after that strike.he was still conscious for good amount of time while here we all can see The bigger point is kurama not opening naruto's chakra point and him fainting quickly.Thus it was comic scene like part sakura punching naruto to a good distance despite being superweak

Again this was to show that 64 palms isn't needed to stop the use of chakra. When has Sakura shown punching feats apart from the anime? and how does that prove that wat Himewari did isn't possible when Hinata made special note about the effect?

well it does works similiar as sasuke's own jutsu and sasuke's sharingan has already shown to see nanosized bombs[

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Sasuke must have seen them through this plot-hole since Tenketsu is undetectable via Sharingan.

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[Hakke]

Sasuke must have seen them through this plot-hole since Tenketsu is undetectable via Sharingan.

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you know , maybe he said "Vital points" , because vital points are able to be detected by anyone , not just a Byakugan user

 

[neosmith500]

you know , maybe he said "Vital points" , because vital points are able to be detected by anyone , not just a Byakugan user

I did say that Vital point makes much more sense but again Chakra point works too especially after seeing Sasuke himself get hit..

 

[BLAZE]

I don't think that it was only just for comic relieve, since Hinata was able to realize the attack , and how much time for Naruto to regain consciousness

Yes which leads to second point since kyuubi can unlock his chakra points anytime canonically but it didn't

and @bold , are you sure?

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That is part 2 sakura

---

Kido made no notes about being low on chakra as Neji did and being low on chakra doesn't mean he wouldn't still be able to use chakra at all when he clearly tried to but failed.
-He could not use chakra or channel chakra because his points were blocked. He said he let the fight drag on too long simply because it ended up biting him in the butt..

But he did cough blood after being hit by neji which only happens if neji targets organ.If neji targetted his chakra points only there is no blood as in case of naruto

Again this harkens back to wat i said about more chakra = more damage which means that a Neji dead-set on killing someone can expel more chakra directly into the organ thats struck..
-Hinata was at her limit after a indirect strike not meant to kill and even after she got a direct hit to her heart it still easy to deduce that Neji could've added more chakra into his hits to just straight up kill her and be done with it..

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-So yea these instances dont exactly mean that Jyuken cant one-shot.

but if that was the case neji could have easily opted for sure killshot against both neji and kidomaru.he still went for 64 palms.
okay

Again this was to show that 64 palms isn't needed to stop the use of chakra. When has Sakura shown punching feats apart from the anime?

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and how does that prove that wat Himewari did isn't possible when Hinata made special note about the effect?

considering the chap of purpose was comic relie and also retcon kishimoto not giving either himawari or boruto byakugan which kishi forgot according to his interview
lml no she said this is the sudden stop of tenketsu even herself wondering who did this.[

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and yes its totally for comic relief [

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Sasuke must have seen them through this plot-hole since Tenketsu is undetectable via Sharingan.

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eh no since having sharingan not equals using it to full extent.
kakashi explicitly states my sharingan eye there.Even Rinnegan can see it [

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[Hakke]

Yes which leads to second point since kyuubi can unlock his chakra points anytime canonically but it didn't

I am not very sure , but Naruto was using hand-seals to use KC which unlocked his chakra points , but here Naruto was unable to use hand seals because he was knocked out , so I am not really very sure :hmm: ,

it could be that either

1.Himawari stroke a chakra point that causes unconsciousness

2.plot no jutsu

 

[BLAZE]

I am not very sure , but Naruto was using hand-seals to use KC which unlocked his chakra points , but here Naruto was unable to use hand seals because he was knocked out , so I am not really very sure :hmm: ,

becoz he does not need to since he is perfect jin now.he can go chakra cloak mode/Senjutsu mode in less than seconds

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[neosmith500]

But he did cough blood after being hit by neji which only happens if neji targets organ.

Tenketsu attacks can just as easily target organs and spread throughout the whole body as per canon.

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Neji strikes Hinata's chakra point on the neck , chakra spreads to multiple organs as per the bottom panel here.

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So against Kido he simply did both.

If neji targetted his chakra points only there is no blood as in case of naruto..

Lol Come on man Hinata was pooring a cupful due to a single tenketsu strike , inconsistency is inconsistent and the art of 64 palm flows the injected chakra differently than wat he did to Kido and Hinata. Where 64 palms aim to simply block individual points , it can also be done in a way that the chakra is sent through the Tenketsu towards multiple organs as per the scan above or simply used to press the nodes directly similar to 64 palms and wat he did to Hinata's arms.

but if that was the case neji could have easily opted for sure killshot against both naruto and kidomaru.he still went for 64 palms.
okay

Against Naruto a single Heart attack could've had him on the ground , and if he survives then another direct heart or Brain attack with full intent to kill would've done the job..

-This is why Lee said a glancing blow is enough , and it doesn't make sense to ignore the context of Neji not wanting to kill Naruto.

-Kidomaro could've also been put down the very same way he did in CM2 so im not sure why ur using this logic.

-Even if u look at the Hinata fight , Neji only gave her one direct hit to a organ for the whole match and a single indirect one without killing intent had her in critical condition which works the same for her as it would for Kidomaro or Naruto who would also succumb to a single direct hit much less a few aimed at the same area.

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considering the chap of purpose was comic relie and also retcon kishimoto not giving either himawari or boruto byakugan which kishi forgot according to his interview
lml no she said this is the sudden stop of tenketsu even herself wondering who did this.[

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and yes its totally for comic relief [

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True and the one hit instant KO thing doesn't add up at all really but that doesn't change the fact that im sure these events are relevant with Hime getting her Byakugan and doing this feat but even so this isn't really relevant so lets leave instance.

eh no since having sharingan not equals using it to full extent.
kakashi explicitly states my sharingan eye there.Even Rinnegan can see it [

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True I think this was exploited in one of the Movies with Sasuke targeting them with Chidori senbon tho why would Obito's more mature sharingan not have this ability? And JJ madz should have stronger eyes than most but it could simply be that kishi jus tossed it in there.

 

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becoz he does not need to since he is perfect jin now.he can go chakra cloak mode/Senjutsu mode in less than seconds

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nope , but I was saying that he needs to be conscious in order to go KCM , right ?