Byakugan

Will it be affected?


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Passion

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I've went through a series of conversations discussing about Byakugan and whether it it affected by Eye techniques or not. So, I decided to create a thread to see what others think (mainly senseis, mods and experienced users).

Question is: ''Is Byakugan affected of Genjutsu IF it's activated and someone is using Eye technique (genjutsu) behind you (for example)?''

My opinion: ''Yes, it will be affected as in a way Byakugan shares a direct eyesight as it can see through solids and can see 359 degrees when activated, therefore, in a way, Sharingan user does have a direct eyesight''
 

-Yard-

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I'd say it's more easy to fall into genjutsu with Byakugan, however I believe they would realise the change in their chakra.They can see through objects as well, so when they realize that what they see has no physical being then it would give it away that it's a genjutsu.
 

Venus

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I think it would be easier to fall into a genjutsu with Byakugan, since it focuses so much on movement and/or chakra flow. I don't know what it's capabilities of releasing it are though.
 

Lili-Chwan

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Like I said many times, Doujutsu require Eye-Contact, which is a mutual thing. Although Byakugan users have a clear sight of a Doujutsu user (like, for example, Sharingan), the opponent doesn't have a clear sight of his eyes.
In fact, Byakugan users have ghostly eyes when they activate the Byakugan, being so that they are looking everywhere, yet nowhere at all.
 
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House

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Like I said many times, Doujutsu require Eye-Contact, which is a mutual thing. Although Byakugan users have a clear sight of a Doujutsu user (like, for example, Sharingan), the opponent doesn't have a clear sight of his eyes.
In fact, Byakugan users have ghostly eyes when they activate the Byakugan, being so that they are looking everywhere, yet nowhere at all.
Sounds reasonable. The only reasonable explanation for a hyuuga to be put under a Doujutsu, is to make a direct eye-contact with the one who'd like to put the hyuuga under genjutsu, the sharingan user. It's like how Lili described it, the hyuuga has a 360 degree of vision, but it's not really a vision that would give an advantage for Doujutsu users like the sharingan; "being so that they are looking everywhere, yet nowhere at all."
 

Passion

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Like I said many times, Doujutsu require Eye-Contact, which is a mutual thing. Although Byakugan users have a clear sight of a Doujutsu user (like, for example, Sharingan), the opponent doesn't have a clear sight of his eyes.
In fact, Byakugan users have ghostly eyes when they activate the Byakugan, being so that they are looking everywhere, yet nowhere at all.
What about Genjutsus that don't require eye-contact such as Ephemeral?
 

Igneel

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I'm not sure about this though...i do agree with lili and i also agree with perry O^O
i'm kinda in b/w the theories lol:p ....

and what gats said^^
 

KeotsuEclipse

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(Expansion of what Lili said, and also adding on to answer another question)

Visual Genjutsu are heavily implied to require direct eye contact, which you could summarize as "pupil-to-pupil" contact.

You have two types of vision, direct and peripheral. An activated Byakugan extends the peripheral vision, not the direct vision (minus the telescopic and x-ray aspect). Because the extended vision is peripheral vision, and not direct vision, Visual Genjutsu won't work on their "extended" range of vision, direct eye contact must be made in order for the jutsu to activate.

Now, for Genjutsu that DON'T require eye contact Byakugan users are as vulnerable as anyone else, be it that they are trapped in them by sound, touch, or proximity.

There are two differences:

  1. Being able to see their own chakra network, Byakugan users will know right away that they are trapped in a Genjutsu.
  2. (Theory) Since the Byakugan sees with a type of X-ray vision, their "regular" sight will see the Genjutsu; however, their "x-ray" sight will bypass the illusion, and they'll be able to see normally.
A direct answer to the question to the thread would be "No, it requires "direct" eye contact."
 
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Lili-Chwan

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About your Theory, Keotsu, I always thought it worked like that, being able to look past the genjutsu, but everyone just kept saying Byakugan users can be trapped on genjutsu too.
 

Frozenstein

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About your Theory, Keotsu, I always thought it worked like that, being able to look past the genjutsu, but everyone just kept saying Byakugan users can be trapped on genjutsu too.
I also wanted to ask this. in the anime they were capable of seeing through genjutsus when they were put in 1. but only after they recognized they are in 1.
 

KeotsuEclipse

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About your Theory, Keotsu, I always thought it worked like that, being able to look past the genjutsu, but everyone just kept saying Byakugan users can be trapped on genjutsu too.
I think it's a combination of both. The best comparison I can make is to overlap to translucent pictures.

They'll still be IN the illusion, but using their second sight, they can also see past it; in essence, they're seeing both the real world as it is, and the illusion at the same time.

And this may sound slightly narcissistic, but I believe that the majority of the people would be wrong, then. o_o" Rarely ever is the finer workings of the Byakugan brought into play, so people are content to lay with their misconceptions.

However, I fully believe that I may be wrong as well, as I myself don't know the finer workings of the Byakugan.
 

House

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Since we're at the topic of Byakugan, I'd like to bring up another theory about Byakugan being able to keep up with an enemy who uses swift release.

The swift release jutsu, that enables the user to move in a faster pace:

(Hayatōn: Mueishō) – Swift Release: Shadowless Flight
Rank: A
Type: Offensive, Defensive, Supplementary
Range: Short
Chakra cost: 30
Damage points: 60
Description: After making a single hand seal the user can move at fast speeds through the release of the swift release and then strike their opponent at multiple angles. The jutsu is effective against strength based close-combat Taijutsu users such as Tsunade and Sakura. However sharingan of tomo 3 is capable of reading the movements and can react to the opponents attacks.
Note: Can only be used by a swift user bio.

What I had just bolded there is saying that a 3 tomoe sharingan is capable of reading the swift movements. We got that down.

Let's look at the "What speed level peoples eyes can follow"

For the sharingan, it is:
-3 tomoe: x2
For byakugan, it is:
-Byakugan: x2

My point being is that since both eyes possesses the same speed levels, byakugan is able to read an enemies' movements, who uses swift.

Am I wrong, somewhat wrong?
 

Sterling Malory Archer

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It's kinda hard to say:

Argument 1:

It's not direct eye contact, more like a large peripheral vision. When Guy and them fought Itachi they looked at his feet, meaning they could still see him in their peripheral vision.

Argument 2:

What you said.

IMO, I'd say argument 1 is more correct.
 

Migualon J.J.

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i believe it´s as Lili and Keotsu say, but i would like an answer on Perry´s question about Ephemeral as well xd and to what Dr. House said, i believe Byakugan can track it as well, but i might be the only one xd
 

Sterling Malory Archer

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i believe it´s as Lili and Keotsu say, but i would like an answer on Perry´s question about Ephemeral as well xd and to what Dr. House said, i believe Byakugan can track it as well, but i might be the only one xd
I think gens that don't require eye contact just are normal genjutsus that you can just use normally.
 

Hei

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Like I said many times, Doujutsu require Eye-Contact, which is a mutual thing. Although Byakugan users have a clear sight of a Doujutsu user (like, for example, Sharingan), the opponent doesn't have a clear sight of his eyes.
In fact, Byakugan users have ghostly eyes when they activate the Byakugan, being so that they are looking everywhere, yet nowhere at all.
i guess that's right xd
 

Scorps

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Well, a simple answer to this is the definition of Genjutsu.

Genjutsu are techniques which alter the targets chakra flow, disturbing his senses to produce and make him experience illusions. These illusions may be almost anything that his 5 senses can perceive. Simply put, you can make your opponent taste, hear, smell, feel or see anything by altering his chakra flow.

Byakugan and Sharingan and Rinnegan, as dojuutsu they are still, however, just a sense. In this case, Sight. They are still fitted within the normal "Sight Sense", thus you can make a dojutsu user see an illusion. So yes, Sharingan, MS, EMS, Rinnegan and Byakugan user will all be put under a genjutsu and will experience the illusion.

The thing is that Sharingan, as it gets stronger, gains the ability to see beyond low rank visual illusions. This means that (according to our RP), 3T and above can see through B-Rank and lower visual genjutsu (genjutsu that makes you SEE something). However, this is associated with the Sharingan's augmented perception. This high perception is what pierces through the illusion and enables the sharingan user to see that what he's seeing is fake. Its not his ability to see chakra that makes it so even if people want to believe so. Simply put, the sharingan's analytical and perception abilities can see through tricks. But this is relating to visual illusions, not all illusions. A 3T Sharingan user will still experience pain from a B-Rank genjutsu. He will still be put under it and will have to release from it like all other ninjas.

"Abilities of the Sharingan:

-See through the chakra flow. The Sharingan can tell if a person is under a genjutsu because the person's chakra flow would be irregular.
-Incredible clarity of perception, allowing them to easily recognize genjutsu and different forms of chakra
-Ability to memorize any technique that he or she witnesses, apart from other KG techniques. The user can memorize ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu with perfect accuracy, allowing the user to use the techniques as his own."

And reguarding to the 3T abilities:

"Description: This is type of Sharingan has 3 tomoe. It allows the user to perceive motions, copy the motions perceived, and predict motions. An example of this is during the fight between Sasuke and Naruto at the Valley of the End. Sasuke could perceive Naruto's motions, copy them, and than predict what Naruto was going to do next. Essentially, to Sasuke through use of his Sharingan, it looked like Naruto was going in slow motion. When active the user now has the ability to keep up with extremely high speeds and mimic taijutsu exactly. With this the user can now copy handseals done by an opponent, and use jutsus as they do. The user must however be able to mimic the techniques, for if they are not physically able to preform the copied techniques they cannot do them. The user can now pierce through visual B rank genjutsu and below. Unlike the previous two sharingan stages this level has the ability to hypnotize a target. If however the target is too strong the hypnotizing with be ineffective. This can only be done on targets one rank below the use"

Byakugan users don't have an augmented clarity of perception but they do have an augmented vision. But it is vision non the less and it can be tricked as any other sense with a genjutsu. I think however, that low rank genjutsu won't work because in terms of enhanced senses, Byakugan represents the most powerful eye sight. So it should provide a resistance of sorts to visual illusions. The same with some other enhanced senses and genjutsu that affect that sense.

The thing is that, for example, if i make an illusion were i make the opponent see himself suddenly teleported into a beach with an infinite ocean nearby, if the illusion is strong enough, Byakugan users, even if they use the telescopic and X-Ray abilities will still see nothing wrong, as their eyesight has fallen under the illusion the same so all aspects that i produce on the illusion are intended to trick their eye sight... If strong enough, it could even make the byakugan user see his chakra flow unaltered. Its vision. Its a sense. Thus i can fall under an illusion. The same with all other senses.

Perhaps the difficulty is seeing or determining what level of resistance to a genjutsu does a Byakugan and Rinnegan user have.

Now as for directed eye contact, i agree with lili and keotsu. Direct Eye contact is pupil to pupil. And that means that even a byakugan user that wants to use a genjutsu that requires eye contact, must gaze directly, pupil to pupil with his target.

My two cents at least...^^
 

Sterling Malory Archer

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Well, a simple answer to this is the definition of Genjutsu.

Genjutsu are techniques which alter the targets chakra flow, disturbing his senses to produce and make him experience illusions. These illusions may be almost anything that his 5 senses can perceive. Simply put, you can make your opponent taste, hear, smell, feel or see anything by altering his chakra flow.

Byakugan and Sharingan and Rinnegan, as dojuutsu they are still, however, just a sense. In this case, Sight. They are still fitted within the normal "Sight Sense", thus you can make a dojutsu user see an illusion. So yes, Sharingan, MS, EMS, Rinnegan and Byakugan user will all be put under a genjutsu and will experience the illusion.

The thing is that Sharingan, as it gets stronger, gains the ability to see beyond low rank visual illusions. This means that (according to our RP), 3T and above can see through B-Rank and lower visual genjutsu (genjutsu that makes you SEE something). However, this is associated with the Sharingan's augmented perception. This high perception is what pierces through the illusion and enables the sharingan user to see that what he's seeing is fake. Its not his ability to see chakra that makes it so even if people want to believe so. Simply put, the sharingan's analytical and perception abilities can see through tricks. But this is relating to visual illusions, not all illusions. A 3T Sharingan user will still experience pain from a B-Rank genjutsu. He will still be put under it and will have to release from it like all other ninjas.

"Abilities of the Sharingan:

-See through the chakra flow. The Sharingan can tell if a person is under a genjutsu because the person's chakra flow would be irregular.
-Incredible clarity of perception, allowing them to easily recognize genjutsu and different forms of chakra
-Ability to memorize any technique that he or she witnesses, apart from other KG techniques. The user can memorize ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu with perfect accuracy, allowing the user to use the techniques as his own."

And reguarding to the 3T abilities:

"Description: This is type of Sharingan has 3 tomoe. It allows the user to perceive motions, copy the motions perceived, and predict motions. An example of this is during the fight between Sasuke and Naruto at the Valley of the End. Sasuke could perceive Naruto's motions, copy them, and than predict what Naruto was going to do next. Essentially, to Sasuke through use of his Sharingan, it looked like Naruto was going in slow motion. When active the user now has the ability to keep up with extremely high speeds and mimic taijutsu exactly. With this the user can now copy handseals done by an opponent, and use jutsus as they do. The user must however be able to mimic the techniques, for if they are not physically able to preform the copied techniques they cannot do them. The user can now pierce through visual B rank genjutsu and below. Unlike the previous two sharingan stages this level has the ability to hypnotize a target. If however the target is too strong the hypnotizing with be ineffective. This can only be done on targets one rank below the use"

Byakugan users don't have an augmented clarity of perception but they do have an augmented vision. But it is vision non the less and it can be tricked as any other sense with a genjutsu. I think however, that low rank genjutsu won't work because in terms of enhanced senses, Byakugan represents the most powerful eye sight. So it should provide a resistance of sorts to visual illusions. The same with some other enhanced senses and genjutsu that affect that sense.

The thing is that, for example, if i make an illusion were i make the opponent see himself suddenly teleported into a beach with an infinite ocean nearby, if the illusion is strong enough, Byakugan users, even if they use the telescopic and X-Ray abilities will still see nothing wrong, as their eyesight has fallen under the illusion the same so all aspects that i produce on the illusion are intended to trick their eye sight... If strong enough, it could even make the byakugan user see his chakra flow unaltered. Its vision. Its a sense. Thus i can fall under an illusion. The same with all other senses.

Perhaps the difficulty is seeing or determining what level of resistance to a genjutsu does a Byakugan and Rinnegan user have.

Now as for directed eye contact, i agree with lili and keotsu. Direct Eye contact is pupil to pupil. And that means that even a byakugan user that wants to use a genjutsu that requires eye contact, must gaze directly, pupil to pupil with his target.

My two cents at least...^^
2 cents of what currencyxd
 
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