BM Naruto and EMS Sasuke vs. EMS Madara

[KidGamer65]

No it's not terrible lol.



1. Yes it does..Madara actually lost his access to the beast when Hashirama removed it from his control and it was sealed in Mito Uzumaki from what I recall. That's a loss regardless of the contract..Simply because he didn't have access to this anymore.

2. I didn't mention MS Sasuke did I?...Hebi Sasuke lost Manda in the Deidara fight but he still fought Itachi as Hebi. Question is why do people give him this when he lost it but don't give MS Obito Kurama even though the same applies? Right before Manda dies, you already see it fading slowly off the scroll

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. Then it was lastly summoned shortly before it died.

3. EMS Madara didn't have accessto Kurama after Hashirama's fight..When he used Izanagi, he still had his EMS but no access to the beast since it was sealed inside a person known as Mito Uzumaki. Read the bottom left of this scan where it was mentioned about the fight between Madara and Hashirama (

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) then it says here Hashirama gained control during the fight and it was sealed(

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). Hence he lost access to it. If not Edo Madara should gain access to the beast since he tried to summon it but it was inside Naruto. Why doesn't he get it? Not seeing what's bad in my logic.

4. Madara didn't have access to it after his fight with Hashi...Sasuke too didn't have access to his summon after his fight with Deidara.

5. I can let this point slide but he lost it in his fight with Itachi? Not to mention the others should suffice.



Did he get it back? Of course he did. How about Madara? He lost access to it and never got it back. This should be clear that it needs to be specified.



At his best and Obito at his best should get what he had in his arsenal if we'll be using this. Losing contract is the same as not having access to it. Madara didn't have access to it when it was in Mito when Hashi gained control of it regardless of his contract. Sasuke lost his summon like that scan I showed but he still gets access to it. Why is Obito now different? It's best to specify EMS Madara with Kyuubi or I don't see why Edo Madara doesn't get it as well. EMS Madara had it which isn't something I'm denying. However that scan I showed said Hashirama gained control of it during their fight and Mito then sealed it in her. Tell me then why Edo Madara doesn't get this? He obviously lost access to it since it was sealed in a person regardless of him using it before. Obito as well lost access to his regardless of how different the scenario was. This is why we need the OP's specification on these things...Don't see the bad logic you're accusing me of.

Manda died when Hebi Sasuke fought Diedara so by that logic we cannot use Manda for Hebi sasuke :|

I'll just go ahead and agree with you guys here.

 

[Apêx1]

I'll respond to the other posts later.


So? :lol Holding and punching are two completely different actions. Not to mention Gedo Mazo is sturdier than the Juubi's tail and far far larger. Hinata's Air Palm being able to push back a Bijuu sized entity doesn't even come close to indicating a 50x boost. Not. Even. Close.


We already knew it was huge. I'm just wondering where 50x came from. :lol

I gave it a random number, people were claiming it was the same 3x boost Kakashi received. I'd gladly argue for 10-20x though, and that's far more then what Sasuke needs to shit all over Madara. Not to mention BM cloak>>>>>Kyuubi cloak.

 

[KidGamer65]

I gave it a random number, people were claiming it was the same 3x boost Kakashi received. I'd gladly argue for 10-20x though, and that's far more then what Sasuke needs to shit all over Madara. Not to mention BM cloak>>>>>Kyuubi cloak.

All we know is that it's stronger. By how much is unknown. But yeah, no boost Sasuke can get from Naruto pushes his PS to a level where it can defeat Madara's let alone shit on it, not when his PS isn't

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, it's

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. (strength wise and roughly size wise minus the wings)

Hell, Sasuke's PS is around the same size as Madara's PS's hand. A boost from a cloak isn't going to make up the difference.

 

[Apêx1]

All we know is that it's stronger. By how much is unknown. But yeah, no boost Sasuke can get from Naruto pushes his PS to a level where it can defeat Madara's let alone shit on it, not when his PS isn't

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, it's

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. (strength wise and roughly size wise minus the wings)

Hell, Sasuke's PS is around the same size as Madara's PS's hand. A boost from a cloak isn't going to make up the difference.

Since when did size even matter. Regular BM Naruto's cloak was surviving Juubi's laser. Madara's durability is not going to be THAT much greater then that. If we were to say Sasuke has a 10-20x boost then he'd be able to outright tank 2-3 of them with no damage. That's far above the damage Madara would outright tank. Durability tends to correlate with the strength of the avatar anyways, the durability is almost always comparable, or in the same ballpark as the power. I mean.. We already know 1 Juubi Laser absolutely ploughed through 9 Bijuu Dama. Madara fired like 13 TBB which was then compared to the SS's barrage. That destroyed the PS completely. If Sasuke is 3x as durable as he was before then he'll tank that shit no diff, if he's 10x as durable then don't get me started on his durability levels. Durability tends to correlate with the strength of the avatar anyways. It's not like durability increases and attack power remains the same. We don't know how strong his attack power is, but we do know that it isn't far away from his durability. Also, didn't PS sword go right through a TSB sword [

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]? Sure, it gets stronger based on the user's belief/soul, but it wouldn't get any weaker then the regular TSB would be. I wouldn't necessarily call its best feat cutting the Shinju.

 

[KidGamer65]

Since when did size even matter. Regular BM Naruto's cloak was surviving Juubi's laser. Madara's durability is not going to be THAT much greater then that.

Absolutely wrong for reasons I'm pretty sure I already explained. The larger you are, the thicker you are, thus you are that much more durable. Not pound for pound, but when it comes to the difficulty the attack will have getting through your defense and getting to you, it will be harder.

Madara's Susanoo is pound for pound more durable than Sasuke's Susanoo, which is pound for pound equal with Naruto's Avatar. Madara's Susanoo's hand is the size of Naruto's Avatar's head. Thus Madara would take the Juubi's laser with far less damage than Naruto took, contrary to some people (Not necessarily you) believing it plows through his Susanoo because "lol Juubi".

If we were to say Sasuke has a 10-20x boost then he'd be able to outright tank 2-3 of them with no damage. That's far above the damage Madara would outright tank.

No, he wouldn't. Naruto could only survive those due to his tails being that much thicker than the rest of his body. Sasuke doesn't have that luxury. When he gets hit directly w/o a boost he's wiped off the face of the planet. Give him the cloak and he'd definitely survive a direct hit, but not with no damage.

Durability tends to correlate with the strength of the avatar anyways, the durability is almost always comparable, or in the same ballpark as the power.

Never implied or shown. Ever. Sasuke's max power w/ PS is Chidori, thus a standard BD. Yet he tanked the combination explosion of him and Naruto's attack.

I mean.. We already know 1 Juubi Laser absolutely ploughed through 9 Bijuu Dama. Madara fired like 13 TBB which was then compared to the SS's barrage. That destroyed the PS completely. If Sasuke is 3x as durable as he was before then he'll tank that shit no diff, if he's 10x as durable then don't get me started on his durability levels.

1 Juubi Laser plowed through 9 small Bijuu Dama. Which only says anything about the force it was moving it, doesn't mean that it carries more power than all those BD. (it does, but not for those reasons) PS was destroyed by the combination of Chojo Kebutsu and the equal 12 BD barrage that was formed from BD larger than the standard variant.

Sasuke's PS was wrecked by Juubito's drop slam. Which is far far weaker than what happened at VoTE. Make him 3x more durable and he still gets wrecked by SS-PS Kyuubi clash. What's worse is that he even had Senjutsu fueling his PS leveled Susanoo when Juubito molested it.

Durability tends to correlate with the strength of the avatar anyways. It's not like durability increases and attack power remains the same. We don't know how strong his attack power is, but we do know that it isn't far away from his durability. Also, didn't PS sword go right through a TSB sword [

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]? Sure, it gets stronger based on the user's belief/soul, but it wouldn't get any weaker then the regular TSB would be. I wouldn't necessarily call its best feat cutting the Shinju.

Only thing I agree with here. Underlined is completely false and makes no sense since:

-Sasuke caps out at a standard BD w/ Rinnegan, caps out with a sword far below a standard BD with EMS assuming he can't use Chidori. Yet he can tank an explosion that is basically 2x BD.

-Madara caps out above a standard BD with his sword. Yet it took the explosion of Chojo Kebutsu and 12 large BD to destroy his Susanoo. So how in the world would Sasuke's attack power be close to what he can tank?

And that was PS enhanced by Senjutsu. Either way, not weaker than the regular Gudo Dama doesn't help since the regular Gudo Dama's cutting feats are poor.

 

[Apêx1]

Absolutely wrong for reasons I'm pretty sure I already explained. The larger you are, the thicker you are, thus you are that much more durable. Not pound for pound, but when it comes to the difficulty the attack will have getting through your defense and getting to you, it will be harder.

And then you realise nothing is preventing Sasuke from using this, which pound for pound is as durable as his cloak since it uses the same chakra;

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Madara's Susanoo is pound for pound more durable than Sasuke's Susanoo, which is pound for pound equal with Naruto's Avatar. Madara's Susanoo's hand is the size of Naruto's Avatar's head. Thus Madara would take the Juubi's laser with far less damage than Naruto took, contrary to some people (Not necessarily you) believing it plows through his Susanoo because "lol Juubi".

Fair enough.

No, he wouldn't. Naruto could only survive those due to his tails being that much thicker than the rest of his body. Sasuke doesn't have that luxury. When he gets hit directly w/o a boost he's wiped off the face of the planet. Give him the cloak and he'd definitely survive a direct hit, but not with no damage.

Sasuke can replicate this with his cloak though, so in that way PS=BM cloak durability wise. With the cloak he'd tank it.

Never implied or shown. Ever. Sasuke's max power w/ PS is Chidori, thus a standard BD. Yet he tanked the combination explosion of him and Naruto's attack.

Sasuke's PS sword would simply downscale from VOTE2 which was capable of destroying one of Naruto's tails. I'll continue debating this on the other thread though, not about to debate this in two different places. Downscaling means 3 times of contact is enough to destroy a tail on Naruto's end.

1 Juubi Laser plowed through 9 small Bijuu Dama. Which only says anything about the force it was moving it, doesn't mean that it carries more power than all those BD. (it does, but not for those reasons) PS was destroyed by the combination of Chojo Kebutsu and the equal 12 BD barrage that was formed from BD larger than the standard variant.

And thus the ones that were uses in the barrage against Hashirama would also be small Biju Dama. @bold based on what?

Sasuke's PS was wrecked by Juubito's drop slam. Which is far far weaker than what happened at VoTE. Make him 3x more durable and he still gets wrecked by SS-PS Kyuubi clash. What's worse is that he even had Senjutsu fueling his PS leveled Susanoo when Juubito molested it.

Lol, in the same way that the BM cloak was destroyed, which survived a Juubi laser. Not sure what you're trying to imply here.

Only thing I agree with here. Underlined is completely false and makes no sense since:

-Sasuke caps out at a standard BD w/ Rinnegan, caps out with a sword far below a standard BD with EMS assuming he can't use Chidori. Yet he can tank an explosion that is basically 2x BD.

-Madara caps out above a standard BD with his sword. Yet it took the explosion of Chojo Kebutsu and 12 large BD to destroy his Susanoo. So how in the world would Sasuke's attack power be close to what he can tank?

And that was PS enhanced by Senjutsu. Either way, not weaker than the regular Gudo Dama doesn't help since the regular Gudo Dama's cutting feats are poor.

Yes, and now you can look at the difference in Hinata's power. It went from BARELY deflecting a single Mokuton projectile to slapping the Juubi's tail away. I'll change my mind here, it's FAR more then a 10x boost. Far more. Sasuke's PS will easily be above Madara's with such a huge boost, and then there's the added fact it's a BM cloak boost instead of the regular cloaks boost. It's the difference between Naruto's clones having a v1 cloak and a BM cloak, I hope you realise how huge such a boost would be.

 

[KidGamer65]

And then you realise nothing is preventing Sasuke from using this, which pound for pound is as durable as his cloak since it uses the same chakra;

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Read below.

Sasuke can replicate this with his cloak though, so in that way PS=BM cloak durability wise. With the cloak he'd tank it.

No, he can't. What he did was extend Susanoo's arm to help, since Susanoo's arms were currently not in use. He can't replicate Naruto's 9 tails to block the Juubi's laser.

Sasuke's PS sword would simply downscale from VOTE2 which was capable of destroying one of Naruto's tails. I'll continue debating this on the other thread though, not about to debate this in two different places. Downscaling means 3 times of contact is enough to destroy a tail on Naruto's end.

Except Naruto's tails were never damaged. Ever.

And thus the ones that were uses in the barrage against Hashirama would also be small Biju Dama. @bold based on what?

Wrong, and based on nothing. While I have

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as clear evidence. Not to mention we've already seen the explosions 9

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BD yields. Nothing compared to what happened at VoTe, and Madara's BD barrage was half of that.

Lol, in the same way that the BM cloak was destroyed, which survived a Juubi laser. Not sure what you're trying to imply here.

Only obvious difference here is that Naruto has 9 tails that are thicker and far larger than his main body while Sasuke has no such luxury, thus will take a direct hit and die. Meaning a 3x boost to something that can't take Obito's drop slam isn't surviving what Madara's PS protected him from.

Not to mention Full Kurama=V4's upper body which is not as large as PS. PS is larger with the same pound for pound durability, thus PS overall is much harder to get through when not equipped to Kurama.

Yes, and now you can look at the difference in Hinata's power. It went from BARELY deflecting a single Mokuton projectile to slapping the Juubi's tail away. I'll change my mind here, it's FAR more then a 10x boost. Far more. Sasuke's PS will easily be above Madara's with such a huge boost, and then there's the added fact it's a BM cloak boost instead of the regular cloaks boost. It's the difference between Naruto's clones having a v1 cloak and a BM cloak, I hope you realise how huge such a boost would be.

It didn't barely deflect it. It deflected with no trouble. Not to mention I'm pretty sure Sashiki isn't her cap when it comes to air palm. Going from slapping Sashiki away to slapping a Bijuu sized tail away isn't FAR more than a 10x boost, nor is Sasuke's PS reaching a level where it can stomp Madara's with the cloak. At best he'd reach a level where Madara won't obliterate him, but he won't be able to do the same to Madara.

-Size difference is more than 10x.
-Madara's PS's firepower surpasses standard BD while Sasuke's is nowhere near that level since Naruto can stalemate his slashes with a tail.
-Yin Yang Kurama cloak boost pushed Sasuke's V3 Susanoo to a level and size where it matched Naruto's Avatar. The gap between Madara's PS and Sasuke's PS is larger than the gap between Sasuke's V3 Susanoo and Sasuke's PS. Sasuke doesn't have the Yin half here, thus his cloak is already going to be far inferior, and we don't know the difference in power between the BM jacket, the Yin Yang Kurama cloak, and just the Yang Kurama cloak.

 

[Transcendence]

Uh, no. Akimichi's could now hold the Juubi's tail when they could barely push the Gedo Mazo a meter backwards, Hinata went from a fist sized air palm to an Air Palm repelling the Juubi's tail, etc. The boost is HUGE, regardless of how you look at it. More chakra=greater boost, it's always been like this and it will always be like this.

It doesn't necessarily have to be 50x, but the boost is massive regardless of how you look at it. Size isn't necessarily indicative of the boost. If it's making something like the v3 equal to PS then there's a clear HUGE boost.

I think the deciding factor here is WHO is getting the boost from the Kurama chakra. In terms of chakra strength, there isn't much difference between Sasuke's and any given Bijuu, so that's why I doubt the chakra would give him anywhere near the same boost it would give someone like Hinata, who's obviously vastly inferior to the two things in question.

 

[TRE MERCER]

KG making a fool of himself in his argument against Evani. Sasuke Kurama cloak PS would beat Madara's. Kamui went from the size of Gedo Mazo arm to being capable of warping the Juubi. The cloak increases abilities by a huge amount. Trans that logic is horrible just because she's weaker means she'd grow more based off what?

 

[Apêx1]

I think the deciding factor here is WHO is getting the boost from the Kurama chakra. In terms of chakra strength, there isn't much difference between Sasuke's and any given Bijuu, so that's why I doubt the chakra would give him anywhere near the same boost it would give someone like Hinata, who's obviously vastly inferior to the two things in question.

Meh, he's going to go on about me being unable to quantify the BM cloak's power. I personally believe it's far above what is required to shit on Madara's Susano, but he'll just say feats or gtfo. He's claiming Hinata's air palm going from deflecting a wood to outright slapping a Juubi tail is not above a 10x boost, so I'm not sure I see reason to argue much here since I see things very differently then he does (not that he doesn't bring good points). Anyways, if Sasuke's v3 went from regular v3 level to PS level then Kurama's cloak acts more as a multiplier then a chakra potency addition. It's more like SM then it would be a potency boost since Kurama and Sasuke are pretty much equal when it comes to chakra potency based on their Avatars. By your logic his Susano wouldn't boost in the first place.

 

[Transcendence]

Meh, he's going to go on about me being unable to quantify the BM cloak's power. I personally believe it's far above what is required to shit on Madara's Susano, but he'll just say feats or gtfo. He's claiming Hinata's air palm going from deflecting a wood to outright slapping a Juubi tail is not above a 10x boost, so I'm not sure I see reason to argue much here since I see things very differently then he does (not that he doesn't bring good points). Anyways, if Sasuke's v3 went from regular v3 level to PS level then Kurama's cloak acts more as a multiplier then a chakra potency addition. It's more like SM then it would be a potency boost since Kurama and Sasuke are pretty much equal when it comes to chakra potency based on their Avatars. By your logic his Susano wouldn't boost in the first place.

Not at all. It's clearly a multiplier, you just didn't understand what I meant. What I meant to get across was this: Sasuke's not some fodder like Hinata. Her power multiplication will seem much better because what we're used to seeing from her is far different than Sasuke. And you misconstrued my point. Susano'o will get boosted regardless. It's based on whatever chakra the user puts in to it. Sasuke's is inferior to Madara's due to him being younger than EMS Madara's Prime, as he is a teen when we first see him attempt to use PS. Kurama's chakra let him put more chakra into his PS, hence the boost.

 

[Transcendence]

KG making a fool of himself in his argument against Evani. Sasuke Kurama cloak PS would beat Madara's. Kamui went from the size of Gedo Mazo arm to being capable of warping the Juubi. The cloak increases abilities by a huge amount. Trans that logic is horrible just because she's weaker means she'd grow more based off what?

Here's a better analogy that you may be able to understand.

Lebron James drops a triple double against the 76ers. That's just Lebron being Lebron right?

Now what if Deandre Jordan did the same? It would be a much larger accomplishment given his complete lack of an offensive game, nor ability to playmake. Sasuke's just being Sasuke, whereas Hinata is exceeding all expectations with a huge boost from Kurama's chakra.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Here's a better analogy that you may be able to understand.

Lebron James drops a triple double against the 76ers. That's just Lebron being Lebron right?

Now what if Deandre Jordan did the same? It would be a much larger accomplishment given his complete lack of an offensive game, nor ability to playmake. Sasuke's just being Sasuke, whereas Hinata is exceeding all expectations with a huge boost from Kurama's chakra.

This makes 0 since at all. End result your implying that the stronger you are the less the Kurama cloak would do to your abilities which is flawed like a MF.​

 

[Apêx1]

Not at all. It's clearly a multiplier, you just didn't understand what I meant. What I meant to get across was this: Sasuke's not some fodder like Hinata. Her power multiplication will seem much better because what we're used to seeing from her is far different than Sasuke. And you misconstrued my point. Susano'o will get boosted regardless. It's based on whatever chakra the user puts in to it. Sasuke's is inferior to Madara's due to him being younger than EMS Madara's Prime, as he is a teen when we first see him attempt to use PS. Kurama's chakra let him put more chakra into his PS, hence the boost.

I can't really see it in the same way. Do you realise that v1 is far weaker then v2, and the difference there is exponentially smaller then v2 and v3, which is exponentially smaller then the difference between v3 and v4, which once again applies to v4 and PS. The boost always increases dramatically. His Susano went from v3 to PS. That's a HUGE jump. Now give the PS that same boost and another huge boost appears. Hell an even better quantifiable comparison is this

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Lee just blitzed Madara without a reaction until he was bisected based on "..." remark. Opening the first Gate increases your ability by 5x since you go from 20% muscle usage to 100%. When Lee opened 5th gate that was at least a 10x boost. Assume 6th is a 15x boost, and then ACCEPT that 6th Gate Lee/Gai cannot come close to blitzing Madara and you'll see how huge the boost the Kyuubi cloak gave him was. Hell, even v2 Ay couldn't blitz Madara based on his OWN word [

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] yet Kyuubi Lee did it without much trouble? I'll even argue that Kyuubi Lee>7th Gate speed since v2 Ay should be faster then 7G Gai. 20x boost at least imo.

 

[Draegod]

Madara uses Iso Susanoo and obliterates them regardless of Sasuke getting a cloak.

All we know is that it's stronger. By how much is unknown. But yeah, no boost Sasuke can get from Naruto pushes his PS to a level where it can defeat Madara's let alone shit on it, not when his PS isn't

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, it's

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. (strength wise and roughly size wise minus the wings)

Hell, Sasuke's PS is around the same size as Madara's PS's hand. A boost from a cloak isn't going to make up the difference.

Absolutely wrong for reasons I'm pretty sure I already explained. The larger you are, the thicker you are, thus you are that much more durable. Not pound for pound, but when it comes to the difficulty the attack will have getting through your defense and getting to you, it will be harder.

Madara's Susanoo is pound for pound more durable than Sasuke's Susanoo, which is pound for pound equal with Naruto's Avatar. Madara's Susanoo's hand is the size of Naruto's Avatar's head. Thus Madara would take the Juubi's laser with far less damage than Naruto took, contrary to some people (Not necessarily you) believing it plows through his Susanoo because "lol Juubi".


No, he wouldn't. Naruto could only survive those due to his tails being that much thicker than the rest of his body. Sasuke doesn't have that luxury. When he gets hit directly w/o a boost he's wiped off the face of the planet. Give him the cloak and he'd definitely survive a direct hit, but not with no damage.




Never implied or shown. Ever. Sasuke's max power w/ PS is Chidori, thus a standard BD. Yet he tanked the combination explosion of him and Naruto's attack.




1 Juubi Laser plowed through 9 small Bijuu Dama. Which only says anything about the force it was moving it, doesn't mean that it carries more power than all those BD. (it does, but not for those reasons) PS was destroyed by the combination of Chojo Kebutsu and the equal 12 BD barrage that was formed from BD larger than the standard variant.

Sasuke's PS was wrecked by Juubito's drop slam. Which is far far weaker than what happened at VoTE. Make him 3x more durable and he still gets wrecked by SS-PS Kyuubi clash. What's worse is that he even had Senjutsu fueling his PS leveled Susanoo when Juubito molested it.




Only thing I agree with here. Underlined is completely false and makes no sense since:

-Sasuke caps out at a standard BD w/ Rinnegan, caps out with a sword far below a standard BD with EMS assuming he can't use Chidori. Yet he can tank an explosion that is basically 2x BD.

-Madara caps out above a standard BD with his sword. Yet it took the explosion of Chojo Kebutsu and 12 large BD to destroy his Susanoo. So how in the world would Sasuke's attack power be close to what he can tank?

And that was PS enhanced by Senjutsu. Either way, not weaker than the regular Gudo Dama doesn't help since the regular Gudo Dama's cutting feats are poor.

Read below.





No, he can't. What he did was extend Susanoo's arm to help, since Susanoo's arms were currently not in use. He can't replicate Naruto's 9 tails to block the Juubi's laser.




Except Naruto's tails were never damaged. Ever.




Wrong, and based on nothing. While I have

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as clear evidence. Not to mention we've already seen the explosions 9

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BD yields. Nothing compared to what happened at VoTe, and Madara's BD barrage was half of that.





Only obvious difference here is that Naruto has 9 tails that are thicker and far larger than his main body while Sasuke has no such luxury, thus will take a direct hit and die. Meaning a 3x boost to something that can't take Obito's drop slam isn't surviving what Madara's PS protected him from.

Not to mention Full Kurama=V4's upper body which is not as large as PS. PS is larger with the same pound for pound durability, thus PS overall is much harder to get through when not equipped to Kurama.





It didn't barely deflect it. It deflected with no trouble. Not to mention I'm pretty sure Sashiki isn't her cap when it comes to air palm. Going from slapping Sashiki away to slapping a Bijuu sized tail away isn't FAR more than a 10x boost, nor is Sasuke's PS reaching a level where it can stomp Madara's with the cloak. At best he'd reach a level where Madara won't obliterate him, but he won't be able to do the same to Madara.

-Size difference is more than 10x.
-Madara's PS's firepower surpasses standard BD while Sasuke's is nowhere near that level since Naruto can stalemate his slashes with a tail.
-Yin Yang Kurama cloak boost pushed Sasuke's V3 Susanoo to a level and size where it matched Naruto's Avatar. The gap between Madara's PS and Sasuke's PS is larger than the gap between Sasuke's V3 Susanoo and Sasuke's PS. Sasuke doesn't have the Yin half here, thus his cloak is already going to be far inferior, and we don't know the difference in power between the BM jacket, the Yin Yang Kurama cloak, and just the Yang Kurama cloak.

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Size doesnt equate strength, nor is it a way to determine strength. Rinnegan Sasuke's Susanoo is smalee than Madaras, but far stronger.

Yeah, strength of the chakra is what makes Susanoo more powerful, these examples only prove my point. So, what indicates that the strength of Alive Madara's chakra is that far above Sasuke's? Never said that chakra has nothing to do with Susanoos power. I only said that size means nothing, and that is true.


Juubi laser obliterated 6 of Narutos tails, so it being far stronger than PS means nothing.





1. Edo Madara and EMS Madaras PS are the same. They both cut Mountains.

2. PS=BSM Avatar when it comes to speed, strength (physical) and durability. Rikudo PS=Rikudo Sage Kurama Avatar. Take Rikudos power away from both and that equality is maintained. Rikudo PS took a tail from Rikudo Kurama Avatar. Scale that down to EMS and BSM you have the same result. Scale naruto to bm and he gets hit worse. So eventually, Sasuke will get past the Avatar.

3. Not to mention PS can fly.

Uh? "Eyes with such power and chakra even more sinister than my own" He's definitely referring to power, partially.



The manga portrays that Madara is all around stronger than Sasuke, it doesn't imply that Madara is better than Sasuke in everything, nor does the manga imply that Madara's chakra>>>Sasuke's chakra.




That was all before EMS Sasuke showed us his PS. Naturally Oro would say that he could surpass Madara, but hasn't yet, because his best was a Senjutsu Susanoo.


Bigger? Sure. Even with Rinnegan they still are. Not really relevant.

Stronger and more durable? What suggests that EMS Sasuke's Susanoo at their best aren't as durable as Madara's at their best? Or at least near it?





Hashirama used way more chakra than Madara did. Hashirama had to consistently create Bijuu Sized+Mokuton constructs, and control them to fight against Madara, who only had to use PS briefly since Kyuubi has his own chakra reserves, and added much more firepower to his arsenal w/o Madara having to use excess chakra.

As for the 24 hours bit, you don't know how what Madara did during that fight to say that Sasuke can't last that long as well, but I doubt he could as well. Not really relevant though.

Nor is chakra amount=/=chakra strength.



Sasuke attacked, and Naruto counter attacked. He wasn't guarding, he was parrying, which makes the whole comparison valid.

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Was Naruto holding back? Yes. Was he the one engaging Sasuke? No. Does that change the fact that he did attack? No. Does that change the fact that their avatars are shown to be physical equals? No. Subtract Rikudo Power and you have Sage Kurama Avatar=Perfect Susanoo in speed, strength, and durability.



Not really a fair comparison, to take Sasuke's V4 Susanoo at it's smallest and then compare to Madara's. V4 Susanoo at it's peak is a full bodied Susanoo, which then becomes PS. As Madara has shown us, it's around the size of the Perfect Susanoo, just not stablilized, thus Sasuke can clearly make a much much larger V4 than what he showed us after he had just gotten EMS.

Etc etc. So is Madara's Ps that much stronger then EMS sasukes now When I was trying to tell you madara's was far beyond sasuke's ps?

 

[KidGamer65]

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Etc etc. So is Madara's Ps that much stronger then EMS sasukes now When I was trying to tell you madara's was far beyond sasuke's ps?

Gotta love my fans. :lol The fact that you literally have to find posts from almost a year ago only shows the desperation. Do you, YD and unorthodox all sit in a private chat surfing through my past posts? And the craziest part about it all is that you are still replying to me when I clearly told you to stay in your lane and I'd stay in mine. Boy.

1. I never said size=strength or that size is the sole determinant of strength. In a situation where Madara's chakra is already stronger than Sasuke's, size can be used to factor in power, but size will never be the only thing you can look at and say "lol I think this is stronger"

2. DemonicAvenger and I had an argument about Sasuke's PS, and he showed me that it was not as strong as I thought. Then there are several other arguments where I've said the same thing I'm saying here now. Moments that I already know that you would ignore.

Yes, you did say that Madara's PS was much stronger than Sasuke's, but your argument was garbage, especially in that BM Naruto vs. EMS Sasuke thread considering all you were doing was being a horrendous strawman.

But I already know how you'll go on and on and on so why am I even wasting time replying?

 

[Draegod]

Gotta love my fans. :lol The fact that you literally have to find posts from almost a year ago only shows the desperation. Do you, YD and unorthodox all sit in a private chat surfing through my past posts? And the craziest part about it all is that you are still replying to me when I clearly told you to stay in your lane and I'd stay in mine. Boy.

1. I never said size=strength or that size is the sole determinant of strength. In a situation where Madara's chakra is already stronger than Sasuke's, size can be used to factor in power, but size will never be the only thing you can look at and say "lol I think this is stronger"

2. DemonicAvenger and I had an argument about Sasuke's PS, and he showed me that it was not as strong as I thought. Then there are several other arguments where I've said the same thing I'm saying here now. Moments that I already know that you would ignore.

Yes, you did say that Madara's PS was much stronger than Sasuke's, but your argument was garbage, especially in that BM Naruto vs. EMS Sasuke thread considering all you were doing was being a horrendous strawman.

But I already know how you'll go on and on and on so why am I even wasting time replying?

Your thread? I know all of the threads I've been in son, it literally took 2 secs to remember when I was owning your ass and ofc was right. Stay thirsty my friend!

 

[KidGamer65]

Your thread? I know all of the threads I've been in son, it literally took 2 secs to remember when I was owning your ass and ofc was right. Stay thirsty my friend!

Spoiler

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Your argumentation is trash, was trash and always will be trash. Stay on my dick my fruity friend.

 

[ARGUS]

why do people think that juubi beam is stronger than chojo kobetsu?
juubi beam plowed through 9 small TBB but still failed to go through the kurama avatar,
but chojo kobetsu went through 12 larger PS-TBB and the clash ended up busting through a far more durable construct