[Predictions] Bleach Manga 459 Discussion and 460 Predictions

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EmperorIssun

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First: Shinigami + Human =/= Vizard. That whole bit about the substitute shinigami badge actually being for Vizards has zero basis. There is no mention that the badge is for Vizards, nor that the first Shinigami Xcution approached was a Vizard.

Anyway, this is little more than speculation on your part. It is perfectly reasonable that Ichigo's Shinigami powers are/were tied directly to his hollow form, as his hollow side manifested as a direct result of him trying to unlock his own shinigami powers, as opposed to Rukia's borrowed ones. In fact, you pretty much proved my point by saying they ARE his power; not powers, but a singular power.

There is zero reason to believe that he could use his hollow powers once he gained fullbring. He never displays this, it is never so much as mentioned, and it's an important enough revelation that it would've been touched upon. The only reason Hollows and Fullbring are linked is that Hollows have attacked Fullbring users' parent(s) before their birth (in Ichigo's case this makes sense because his dad was/is a shinigami). The Hollow form came about as a result of his own "death" and the chain of fate corroding.

Getting off topic for a bit, the broken chain on Tensa Zangetsu (and now Zangetsu as well) seems to be a play on the chain of fate ichigo lost most of during the Shattered Shaft incident.

IF he gets his hollow powers back, which I somewhat doubt, it will be a result of his shingami powers returning.
More like I proved you wrong. Ichigo gained hollow powers because he became a plus from getting his chain of fate eroded away. It's part of Shattered Shaft training to awaken his own shinigami powers, but he became a plus because his human part. So no, his hollow powers have NOTHING to do with his shinigami powers, it was because he is part human and his chain fate eroded after getting severed. That inner world is a place to represent Ichigo subconscious. It is where Zangetsu and his inner hollow can manifest to converse with him, but it does not exist because Zangetsu exists. So using final getsuga which results in losing his shinigami powers, would not affect Ichigo's inner hollow. However he can not enter the inner world and use his hollow powers because he no longer has his shinigami powers to let him enter. Besides if he lost is hollow powers too, Tite would not be so specific to say using final getsuga results in the lose of his shinigami powers UNLESS he actually meant for it to result in the loss of shinigami powers. An author never mentions any detail unless it foreshadows something in the future. That's something you learn in school. Shawg

Shinigami/human has everything to do with Vizards. Aside from the exception that Aizen infected Shinji and the others the only way a Shinigami can gain hollow powers is if they are part human. When a humans of fate is severed and eroded away they become a plus. When Tessai severed Ichigo's Chain of Fate, he became a plus because he was HUMAN. Normal shinigami can't gain hollow powers because they are souls who have been saved and brought to Soul Society. There is no opportunity for them to undergo Hollowfication, unless they are part human and went through Hollification while attempting to unlock their powers like Ichigo. Besides how else can Xcution give their fullbring to a shinigami/human unless that person has Hollow powers, making them a Vizard.

You're forgetting the fact Fullbring DIRECTLY comes from a Hollow. Chad didn't have Fullbring until after he was attacked by a Hollow himself and when he fought with Karin it activate. I don't think reason why Ginjo and the others have Fullbring is only way to get Fullbring. He said the were born with fullbring because traces of the Hollow's power remained in their mother's womb. Ichigo underwent Hollowfication, Chad was injured by a hollow, I think as long as hollow powers are there and remain in their bodies, that's why they can fullbring.
 
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keksmuzh

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More like I proved you wrong. Ichigo gained hollow powers because he became a plus from getting his chain of fate eroded away. It's part of Shattered Shaft training to awaken his own shinigami powers, but he became a plus because his human part. So no, his hollow powers have NOTHING to do with his shinigami powers, it was because he is part human and his chain fate eroded after getting severed. That inner world is a place to represent Ichigo subconscious. It is where Zangetsu and his inner hollow can manifest to converse with him, but it does not exist because Zangetsu exists. So using final getsuga which results in losing his shinigami powers, would not affect Ichigo's inner hollow. However he can not enter the inner world and use his hollow powers because he no longer has his shinigami powers to let him enter. Besides if he lost is hollow powers too, Tite would not be so specific to say using final getsuga results in the lose of his shinigami powers UNLESS he actually meant for it to result in the loss of shinigami powers. An author never mentions any detail unless it foreshadows something in the future. That's something you learn in school. Shawg

Shinigami/human has everything to do with Vizards. Aside from the exception that Aizen infected Shinji and the others the only way a Shinigami can gain hollow powers is if they are part human. When a humans of fate is severed and eroded away they become a plus. When Tessai severed Ichigo's Chain of Fate, he became a plus because he was HUMAN. Normal shinigami can't gain hollow powers because they are souls who have been saved and brought to Soul Society. There is no opportunity for them to undergo Hollowfication, unless they are part human and went through Hollification while attempting to unlock their powers like Ichigo. Besides how else can Xcution give their fullbring to a shinigami/human unless that person has Hollow powers, making them a Vizard.

You're forgetting the fact Fullbring DIRECTLY comes from a Hollow. Chad didn't have Fullbring until after he was attacked by a Hollow himself and when he fought with Karin it activate. I don't think reason why Ginjo and the others have Fullbring is only way to get Fullbring. He said the were born with fullbring because traces of the Hollow's power remained in their mother's womb. Ichigo underwent Hollowfication, Chad was injured by a hollow, I think as long as hollow powers are there and remain in their bodies, that's why they can fullbring.
1. Please use proper punctuation, spelling and complete sentences; reading walls of text is bad enough without having to figure out where your sentences end. Another thing we learned in school is proofreading.

2. Suggesting that you know exactly how detailed and specific an author is, and making a generalization about foreshadowing is amusing. Especially when you consider that this is Bleach, which has so many holes and contradictions there could be a book just on those.

3. When Shattered Shaft ended, he simultaneously gained Shinigami robes and his Vizard mask. On top of that, who told Ichigo that he would never see him again: The Hollow + Tensa Zangetsu fusion. They didn't defuse, and they didn't talk separately. As one being, they said they would never see him again. There is far more evidence for my theory as yours.

4. Let me remind you that the only Vizards currently around are Shinji's group and Ichigo. Calling every single Vizard except for Ichigo an "exception" is ridiculous. Your second paragraph has no grounding whatsoever. Every Vizard we know of except for Ichigo was formed through a Hougyoku (like the incomplete one Aizen used on Shinji's group). It is NEVER stated that only a human/shinigami can gain hollow powers, and there are numerous instances that contradict this, as stated above.

5. Fullbring does not directly come from Hollows, unless you're using a different definition of "directly". As described in the manga, as opposed to your random speculation, Fullbring users come from residual hollow reiatsu, usually as a result of a child's mother or father being attacked before the child's birth. It's an indirect effect.

Butterflaizen stated that Chad's and Orihime's powers came about as a result of them wishing for power in close proximity to the Hougyoku in Rukia. Since the Hougyoku can warp reality to an extent, it may have given him Fullbring because it was what was closest to his image of power (this is a guess, not fact. I do not pretend to have all the answers).

You said you don't "think" the way Ginjo/every fullbring user other than Chad is the only way to obtain it, but short of a reality warping device, it's the only explanation we have, so making up another with no basis is counterproductive. It is entirely possible that one of Chad's parents (who died when he was young) were attacked by a Hollow before his birth. In Ichigo's case, as I said in my last post, he could have naturally had the ability to use fullbring at birth, due to his dad constantly fighting hollows as a shinigami before giving it up.

Bottom line: there is no evidence to suggest that Ichigo had his Hollow powers when he gained Fullbring. He never shows it, he never suspects it, he never so much as mentions his hollow powers during the entire arc. Ginjo brings it up once, and only to explain why Xcution doesn't like having Fullbring. I would be fine with you thinking my theory is wrong if you didn't try to counter it with this BS. A + Fish = 4 is not valid logic, and is the extent of your argument. Don't string together loosely related facts and assumptions together and call it truth.
 
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sakhee

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@ keksmuzh Did you have to go as far as attacking his punctuation? Besides his punctuation ain't as bad as half of the people on this forum. Also considering that this is a forum, im sure punctuation and complete sentences does not matter as much, as he's not writing an essay afterall.

P.S. His bad punctuation does in turn make it hard to understand some of the stuff he's writing, but i dont think you should be using it to get your argument across!
 

EmperorIssun

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1. Please use proper punctuation, spelling and complete sentences; reading walls of text is bad enough without having to figure out where your sentences end. Another thing we learned in school is proofreading.

2. Suggesting that you know exactly how detailed and specific an author is, and making a generalization about foreshadowing is amusing. Especially when you consider that this is Bleach, which has so many holes and contradictions there could be a book just on those.

3. When Shattered Shaft ended, he simultaneously gained Shinigami robes and his Vizard mask. On top of that, who told Ichigo that he would never see him again: The Hollow + Tensa Zangetsu fusion. They didn't defuse, and they didn't talk separately. As one being, they said they would never see him again. There is far more evidence for my theory as yours.

4. Let me remind you that the only Vizards currently around are Shinji's group and Ichigo. Calling every single Vizard except for Ichigo an "exception" is ridiculous. Your second paragraph has no grounding whatsoever. Every Vizard we know of except for Ichigo was formed through a Hougyoku (like the incomplete one Aizen used on Shinji's group). It is NEVER stated that only a human/shinigami can gain hollow powers, and there are numerous instances that contradict this, as stated above.

5. Fullbring does not directly come from Hollows, unless you're using a different definition of "directly". As described in the manga, as opposed to your random speculation, Fullbring users come from residual hollow reiatsu, usually as a result of a child's mother or father being attacked before the child's birth. It's an indirect effect.

Butterflaizen stated that Chad's and Orihime's powers came about as a result of them wishing for power in close proximity to the Hougyoku in Rukia. Since the Hougyoku can warp reality to an extent, it may have given him Fullbring because it was what was closest to his image of power (this is a guess, not fact. I do not pretend to have all the answers).

You said you don't "think" the way Ginjo/every fullbring user other than Chad is the only way to obtain it, but short of a reality warping device, it's the only explanation we have, so making up another with no basis is counterproductive. It is entirely possible that one of Chad's parents (who died when he was young) were attacked by a Hollow before his birth. In Ichigo's case, as I said in my last post, he could have naturally had the ability to use fullbring at birth, due to his dad constantly fighting hollows as a shinigami before giving it up.

Bottom line: there is no evidence to suggest that Ichigo had his Hollow powers when he gained Fullbring. He never shows it, he never suspects it, he never so much as mentions his hollow powers during the entire arc. Ginjo brings it up once, and only to explain why Xcution doesn't like having Fullbring. I would be fine with you thinking my theory is wrong if you didn't try to counter it with this BS. A + Fish = 4 is not valid logic, and is the extent of your argument. Don't string together loosely related facts and assumptions together and call it truth.
Lmao you're so full of S***. Sorry I'm busy all day and I don't have time to double check my essay for you Do I care? Am I bring graded? No, this is the internet, do you judge everyones writing? Everyone must think you're so cool, really. How am I calling my thoughts the truth? Since my first post I said, "these are my humble thoughts." You're the one replying to everybodies posts saying they are wrong. You are contradicting yourself too. You are citing the manga regarding fullbring, saying that my assumption is wrong and when I cite the manga to proving Ichigo only lost is shinigami powers, you say I'm wrong because of your assumption. You're ridiculous and closed minded. It's been mentioned many many many many times that Ichigo lost his shinigami powers and it's ONLY been mentioned that he lost his shinigami powers, it's fact, get over it, stop trying to force your assumption on others. Yeahh Ichigo emerged with his Vizard, because he went through Hollowification while he was trying to unlock his shinigami powers. Does that mean they depend on each other? NO. Ichigo's hollow powers are an occurance, they have been separate entities the whole series, but the one time they came together was in his inner world (his subconscious) to prevent Ichigo from throwing away his shinigami powers. The inner world is Ichigo's subconscious guy, this isn't Dragon ball Z, they didn't literally fuse. Zangetsu is an effing sword and Ichigo's hollow powers are a mask. Their presence in the inner world is only to interact with Ichigo. GET THAT IN YOUR HEAD. No s*** Ichigo won't ever see them, without Zangetsu he can't enter his subconscious and communicate with hollow Ichigo.

You're so arrogant, obviously Shinji and the others are an exception. They gained hollow powers through Aizen's hogyoku. According to the Soul Society they gained hollow powers through "illegal means", that's why they were banished. They ARE the exception. They didn't banish Ichigo when he displayed his hollow powers. They gave him that badge to recognize him. The fact that the Soul Society have rules against gaining hollows powers illegally and rules acknowledging shinigami who have gained hollow powers like Ichigo is enough evidence proving that they have dealed with vizards before. It only makes sense that a shinigami/human can gain hollow powers. There is proof, Ichigo, the main effing character, the only vizard the Soul Society recognized as their own. Shinji and his group are the vizards the Soul Society accused of gaining hollow powers illegally. The fact that Ginjo mentioned there are half breeds like Ichigo and they have encountered those individuals is proof enough that their are possibly other vizards exist in the Bleach universe. To even gain shinigami powers, those half breeds must have to go through a similar training such as the Shattered Shaft training. This opens up the possibility of gaining hollow powers and becoming a vizard.

My simple hypothesis is that badge represents vizards and that new uniform is a vizard uniform. This is my theory, I don't give a s*** about yours, don't go on a forum site and try to prove people wrong. You only look like a douche. What I corrected you with is a FACT. Your "fusion" assumption doesn't make sense. It has ONLY been stated that Ichigo lost his shinigami powers, there was no literal fusion that occurred. I didn't see Ichigo's bankai and Vizard mask come together. Hollow Ichigo and Zangetsu fusing together was all in Ichigo's subconscious to prevent him from gaining the final getsuga. It's a lot more entertaining like that, but too bad it only confuses arrogant f***s like you!
 
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EmperorIssun

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@ keksmuzh Did you have to go as far as attacking his punctuation? Besides his punctuation ain't as bad as half of the people on this forum. Also considering that this is a forum, im sure punctuation and complete sentences does not matter as much, as he's not writing an essay afterall.

P.S. His bad punctuation does in turn make it hard to understand some of the stuff he's writing, but i dont think you should be using it to get your argument across!
Show me what was difficult to understand, and how my "bad punctuation" affects your understanding. Really, I would like to know.
 

Rami105

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Rukia looks fit to be Fucked. Now IchigoxRukia. I bet she even got Bankai ;)

And Ichigo's Sword is bad-ass. His Fullbring and Shinigami powers have merged somehow.
dont get caried away she's just a luitant!

LADY's AND GENTLEMAN!!!!

ICHIGO has returnd!!

Lets just hope there are some new awesome captains
 
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xhenyum

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i think that Zanpakutō is Aizen zanpaktuo ichigo said that aizen zanpakuto was crayng for lolines so i think urahara some how united aizen zanpaktuo whith ichigo:)
 

Mercy

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i think that Zanpakutō is Aizen zanpaktuo ichigo said that aizen zanpakuto was crayng for lolines so i think urahara some how united aizen zanpaktuo whith ichigo:)
That's is complete bull.
And no, Aizen's Zanpakuto wans't crying, it was himself. Ichigo thought that he felt lonely and that it was his will to get weaker. In the end he thought that he lost because of his will. (So the Hogyoku turned his wish into reallity, if you know what I mean.)

And I highly doubt it that you could combine Zanpakuto's and why even Aizens. . . it isn't really thaaat special from everything we've seen yet.

I still think that this is Zangetsu. Like Ginjo said, when he "lost" his Shinigame powers a little fragment of it remained in his body. And I bet it was the same with his Fullbring, he didn't completly lose it and I think those powers were somehow combined when he turned into a Shinigami again.

And I think this whole Vizard Uniform is BS. But we'll see. . . only a few days left.
 
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ImpureAngel

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Hmm In my opinion,the hollow powers and the shinigami powers are not "attached".Reason?Well,In the Muramasa filler when Zangetsu atacked Ichigo, he clearly said -"That is another soul residing within him".You should ask "Then why he didnt use them so far" Maybe, due to the lack of reiatsu and the inability to see(let alone hear) souls ? Idk fell free to prove me wrong :shrug: :lili:
 

Taka

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**** YEAH! Just as I predicted,I'm so dope :p I knew that rukia was behind this in order to return Ichi's powers, everything gave it away, who wouldn't notice.
 
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