Movie Naruto can use RS in base form and create it under a single second. Let it be a homing rocket or the regular Fuuton:RS which it expanded, Jiraiya ain't dodging that if clones are used to spam it all together.
Base Naruto vs. Jiraiya
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KidGamer65
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Haha no.
1. A chance? Base Naruto from the Last would godstomp Jiraiya. Any Naruto post rikudo's power up would slaughter Jiraiya.
2. This Naruto wins. Gonna need some argumentation if you think it's a slaughter.
Being Jiraiya's fastest attack isn't evidence that Naruto won't be able to make clones and then form Rasengan. What speed feat does it have that'd prevent Naruto from doing so? Throwing chakra away isn't an issue when Kurama can just give him some more, as we saw at VoTe 2, and during the War Arc.
Then Naruto makes a clone, and uses it to toss himself away from the swamp and lets the clone fall and get trapped. I'll give you the underground part.
Kawazu Naki=Frog Call. So yes, it's restricted.
This isn't movie Naruto. This is War Arc Naruto.
Sennin of Logic
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1. Well, yeah, Last base Naruto certainly could win via FRS. Other than that, he'd be getting his but kicked.
2. Alright. Here's why SM Jiraya would stomp War Arc Base Naruto.
Ranged: Jiraya takes long range by default being that base Naruto has no ranged attacks, and Jiraya's ranged jutsus are powerful. Shima and Fukasaku are powerful in this regard.
CQB: Yet again, Jiraya stomps in this area as well. Jiraya is a user of frog kumite, and his physical attributes are immense. Naruto's not winning in taijutsu. One could argue that Naruto can clone spam, but Jiraya also has clones, pretty much negating any advantage Naruto would have. Ransengan VS Ransengan: Jiraya wins. His SM massive ransengan can hollow a mountain if it exploded. Base massive ransengan has no such hype, nor feats.
If this were base Naruto VS base Jiraya, or SM Naruto vs SM Jiraya, it'd be the other way around, but Jiraya having access to SM for this fight is too much of an edge for War Arc Naruto to hope to overcome.
KidGamer65
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Ok...
Nope. Naruto gets the advantage solely due to clone spam, and giant Rasengans. If he goes up against Jiraiya using straight Taijutsu, he gets shit stomped, that's naturally. Jiraiya having clones doesn't matter when Naruto's chakra w/ Kurama at his disposal dwarfs Jiraiyas. If he tried to match the number of Naruto's clones, he'd only end up producing weak ones that Naruto would tear apart.
Rasengan vs. Rasengan is only relevant if they clash, and hell, let's talk Rasengan vs. Rasengan. Naruto's Jukai Kotan leveled Rasengan barrage, used with a fraction of Kurama's chakra>>Jiraiya's Chou Oodama Rasengan for two reasons. It's stronger, and because Jiraiya's Rasengan would only hit a fraction of the clones, allowing the rest to gangbang him. He can't tank them, or block them, so he'd die right there.
Even if he somehow poofs all of Naruto's clones. Naruto gets more chakra from Kurama, and makes more clones.
Your analysis of this battle is too over simplified to be considered vaild.
Seeing how can make one handed Rasengans effortlessly even with low chakra
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Having substantial amount of CQC feats that put him on top tier level with that alone
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Being able to think and react that of an experienced combatant
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Pictures explained from my POV:
Naruto really is a genius here..
First, Naruto grabbed Sai's katana with his left hand (referring size is a normal chokutō), at that same second he pivoted his body towards the left, as his right hand reached Sakura's mid-section he pushed her outwards with his following right hand. He then proceeded to swing the sword vertically aiming a lowering positioning to counter-strike the sword that was pointed at Sakura at a second before.
Karui was shocked, indefinitely as you see her face through the panel she almost did not notice the transition as Naruto is experienced in close combat. Naruto then quickly began to move forward while pointing out his right elbow to slam directly into her upper chest. However, Omoi who was standing beside her quickly took action. He knew he couldn't stop Naruto with his weapon because he had to unsheathe it, so he took the handle and countered the elbow with it alone.
After getting countered Karui then uses Omoi as a way of turning her body against his own, Naruto noticing their movement proceeds to use the Shadow Clone seal with his hands which are positioned directly near each-other
Making her on his right side now, she decides to strike Naruto with a horizontal arc swing. The clone comes at the same second the arc is forming, and the Clone slams both his hands directly at the swing and stops it.
Mind you only a few seconds have passed since Naruto took Sai's sword. Then, Sai and Sakura proceed to take the enemy down by circling around them to strike at their sides. Which was smart. However, Omoi again much like what Karui did a moment ago, uses her as a stool to jump passed Sai's initial mid-roundhouse kick, and aims a direct kick at Sakura who yelled charging in to strike Karui. She then flies backwards while the real Naruto moves at a rate where he was able to catch her before she stops, take notice that he started moving after she was sent flying.
First, Naruto grabbed Sai's katana with his left hand (referring size is a normal chokutō), at that same second he pivoted his body towards the left, as his right hand reached Sakura's mid-section he pushed her outwards with his following right hand. He then proceeded to swing the sword vertically aiming a lowering positioning to counter-strike the sword that was pointed at Sakura at a second before.
Karui was shocked, indefinitely as you see her face through the panel she almost did not notice the transition as Naruto is experienced in close combat. Naruto then quickly began to move forward while pointing out his right elbow to slam directly into her upper chest. However, Omoi who was standing beside her quickly took action. He knew he couldn't stop Naruto with his weapon because he had to unsheathe it, so he took the handle and countered the elbow with it alone.
After getting countered Karui then uses Omoi as a way of turning her body against his own, Naruto noticing their movement proceeds to use the Shadow Clone seal with his hands which are positioned directly near each-other
Making her on his right side now, she decides to strike Naruto with a horizontal arc swing. The clone comes at the same second the arc is forming, and the Clone slams both his hands directly at the swing and stops it.
Mind you only a few seconds have passed since Naruto took Sai's sword. Then, Sai and Sakura proceed to take the enemy down by circling around them to strike at their sides. Which was smart. However, Omoi again much like what Karui did a moment ago, uses her as a stool to jump passed Sai's initial mid-roundhouse kick, and aims a direct kick at Sakura who yelled charging in to strike Karui. She then flies backwards while the real Naruto moves at a rate where he was able to catch her before she stops, take notice that he started moving after she was sent flying.
I can't see Jiraiya winning.
KidGamer65
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The first two are post Rikudo power up Naruto. This is pre Rikudo power up Naruto, hence it being War Arc Naruto, and outmaneuvering Karui and Omoi isn't a big feat. I can argue for Naruto, but not for these reasons.
EliteKakashi
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I'm kinda confused here, you say base Naruto, but Kurama is assisting him? I mean that's fine, you can set the guidelines however you want them, but what is the extent of his assistance? Supplying him with chakra? Giving him a kyuubi cloak to power him up? Or what?
KidGamer65
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It says it in the OP. He can give him chakra like he did in the War, but no modes. A cloak is a mode.
EliteKakashi
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Maybe my memory fails me, but doesn't this just leave him with clones and rasengans/odoma rasengans(and taijutsu of course)?
I guess this becomes a battle of does Naruto outlast Jiraiya, assuming my memory serves me, cause I'm not sure he's gonna have anything that's going to put Jiraiya down.
I also forget, can Naruto make those super durable clones that he used during the war without any kind of mode? I kinda stopped giving a shit about the series halfway in to part two and only really focused on the characters I cared about so my memory of what characters like Naruto did, and how they did it is fuzzy.
Fukasaku can take out a ton of clones at once with Zessenzan. This should work whether the clones are the regular ones or the durable ones. Zessenbaku from Shima might also be effective here if you want to believe the acid that she shoots out of her tongue would destroy the clones, that's a judgement call I guess. Goemon would work too. Kebari Senbon should do the trick as well, at least to the regular clones.
I guess it turns in to who do you think outlasts who, cause with Naruto receiving chakra from Kurama too, he can just create clones for days and stall until Jiraiya passes out.
Unless my knowledge of Naruto's non-mode skills are incorrect, I don't see anything in his arsenal that is going to beat Jiraiya when in SM, other than sheer numbers with shadow clones causing him to wear out.
KidGamer65
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Yup.
A direct hit from any of Naruto's Rasengan takes Jiraiya out.
I can't see why not.
Sheer numbers and brute force are how he wins. If Ma and Pa or Kebari Senbon take out clones, then all Naruto needs to do is make more since he has Kurama's chakra available to him at all times, and he's not behind a cage this time. Nothing Jiraiya has in his arsenal is close to this level of power, not when it matched Madara's Jukai Kotan. [
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] [
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]Most attacks are straight up overpowered and Goemon is avoided.
Not to mention Naruto can still use
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even w/o Sage Mode, let alone with multiple clones after getting Kurama's chakra. Jiraiya isn't blocking it, not when it can take out a Ribcage Susanoo. His only bet would be to evade it, but that's hard to do when he has clones coming at him like
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, from every direction, with Rasengan in hand. Granted the speed and the numbers won't be the same, but considering Jiraiya is far weaker, it doesn't matter much.
EliteKakashi
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Yes, assuming Jiraiya gets hit by one.
The issue here for Naruto is, thanks to Fukasaku and Shima, he can cover all directions. They can use their different versions of zessen while he uses senbon to cover what they can't.
I'm not going to argue that Jiraiya wins this though, because I don't even want to try and guess how many clones he can make with Kurama giving him chakra, so eventually Jiraiya is going to run out, but I'm saying until Jiraiya does run out of gas, I don't see Naruto doing anything to him. Cause even if it gets to a point where he can't take out all of the clones, he, Fukasaku and Shima could just focus on a certain part to clear a path and then escape that way if need be.
There's also creating gigantic sized yomi numas to trap the clones running on the ground, like this:
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And then dealing with the ones above or w/e.
But yeah, I don't see him winning this cause I'm not even sure how you begin to count how many clones Naruto can make with Kurama's assistance, and going off the idea he can make the extremely durable ones too, that makes it only that much harder.
But I don't think Base Naruto hits Jiraiya very easily at all, though.
KidGamer65
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Each of which get blocked by the Rasengan in the clone's hands. Not to mention they can cover every direction, but that doesn't mean their attacks are on a scale where they'd be able to take out every single clone before they get hit.
They'd have to be able to do so before they get hit by Rasengan, and if Rasengan is used defensively, then that foils their plan of escape.
That handles below, but that doesn't handle above. Then there's the fact the ones below can use clone ropes to launch themselves from the swamp and at Jiraiya.
EliteKakashi
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I think the Zessens and the Senbon have the speed to do it. If it gets to the point where base Naruto can have his clones spam Odoma Rasengan(can he? I dunno.) then I can see the issue, but I'm not sure that's possible.
Senbon and Fukasaku/Shima handle the ones above..again, this assuming that they don't all have Odoma Rasengans..if they do then yeah I guess they're screwed. I don't think he's ever done that before though. If you want to argue he can I won't say much about it. Power-scaling got so god damned stupid at the end I wouldn't be surprised.
Don't even know why I'm debating anything anyway. This is basically just arguing does Jiraiya last 5 minutes or 10 minutes.
I thought Naruto needed clones to make rasengans in base but it seems like with Kurama's chakra he can do one-handed rasengans (
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) so I guess he can form them fast enough to block incoming KS since Animal Path could weave a handseal in time to protect himself. Yomi Numa would still turn the ground below Naruto into a marsh and stop the clones in their tracks or at the very least slow them down long enough for Jiraiya to wipe them out with Goemon. Naruto isn't predicting YN coming or reacting to it since Jiraiya can hide his hand seal (
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)(
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). When the clones get impeded by the swamp, Jiraiya burns them all at once with Goemon.Bold: Naruto used up
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so Naruto using that same attack over again, only for it to be countered again, isn't a good strategy. Sure throwing away chakra isn't much of an issue but if Naruto uses up lots of chakra for his attacks and Jiraiya counters them without much effort on his part, Naruto would get outlasted.You mean this?
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A base clone can't hurl Naruto far enough to escape a SM swamp's aoe and clone chains would get poofed by Kebari Senbon. K, didn't realize that.
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EliteKakashi
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That was Naruto and Kyuubi not working together, and Naruto had already used up chakra prior to that. Not very good comparison.
Blackwatch
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Naruto wins with Low Diff, Seriously!!!!!
This would End Jiraiya so quickly and leave him wide open.....
Naruto already made a statement who powerful this technique was on Powerful Opponents, and Jiraiya already showed a weakness against it.
After this naruto could hit Jiraiya with any finishing technique (rasenshuriken or ect..)
This would End Jiraiya so quickly and leave him wide open.....
Harlem Jutsu Technique
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Naruto already made a statement who powerful this technique was on Powerful Opponents, and Jiraiya already showed a weakness against it.
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After this naruto could hit Jiraiya with any finishing technique (rasenshuriken or ect..)