Base Logic vs. Real Life logic
- Thread starter Gaaraske
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I think you actually believe the things you say lol... Naruto never had parents so to lose them would make him no difference, Sasuke actually had family so he knows the pain of lost. And I will admit Naruto trains very hard but while Naruto is busy playing with Sakura and eating medicine balls Sasuke is busy engaged in fights to the death Jonin and Kage level shinobi, so I don't wanna hear that crap, the only person constantly crying is Naruto and that's a fact. Keeps crying over Sasuke for over 3 years lol... OMG let it go dude he doesn't wanna be your friend. Be friends with Sai and go eat your medicine balls and continue to beg Kurama for chakra.
Also in regards to that KM mode chakra you refer to, that Naruto "worked so hard for," in actuality if you read the manga you would know Kurama GAVE him the chakra because of his hate for Madara, he preferred to cooperate with Naruto... Naruto did nothing but stand there and thank Kurama for saving his behind once again... sad
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uchihajaime
Active member
You're correct that Sasuke just received the CS and MS. unlike naruto who had to work to obtain SM. however, Sasuke worked to master CS and MS. He spent three years improving CS. He mastered it enough for partial transformation which impressed Jugo, the progenitor of CS. that's quite a feat. then he gradually improved MS by first just releasing the black flames then figuring out how to extinguish them and then how to use them as a quasi-shield. Same with Susano he got ribcage then improved it to incomplete then to complete. he worked for it.
the greatest disservice Kishimoto did to Sasuke's character was not showing him training. he never showed us him training to master CS.
I'll admit that Naruto trains harder. Sasuke relies on being a genius but he still trains hard just not as hard. Sasuke's hobby was training.
Sasuke has cried twice in the series (when his clan was massacred and when he found out he killed his most precious person). he does not cry to get power-ups. he is an extremely stoic character.
Sasuke and Naruto experienced different kinds of suffering. Naruto being alone. Sasuke not being alone and then being alone. I think Sasuke's is more traumatic though Naruto's is sadder. it's purely opinion what suffering is greater (to have had and lost or to never have had).
Well, in the end, I admit that Sasuke has more brains that Naruto in terms of booksmartness.
Based on this, I want Sasuke develop a genuine, trademark technique that makes of him, someone who really deserves to be equal to Naruto, a powerup developed by himself (Kishimoto told that these two would be equal, well, let it be then... but it must be something worth).
Based on this, I want Sasuke develop a genuine, trademark technique that makes of him, someone who really deserves to be equal to Naruto, a powerup developed by himself (Kishimoto told that these two would be equal, well, let it be then... but it must be something worth).
The Robot With Human Hair
Active member
Good god, the irrelevant bias on this site.
Sasuke trained his own Mangekyou Sharingan through experience (as unlike Naruto he isn't the title character and Kishimoto can't spend entire arcs on his training), something that without, his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan wouldn't have worked as effectively. Sasuke trained with his Cursed Seal, and perfected it beyond the level of any other. Something that without, Juugo's Sage powers would be completely irrelevant. Sasuke trains with high dedication, Sasuke has been training since he was a child, mastering Katon, while Naruto asspulls techniques which should require him years of experience by simply stating "Believe it" and using Kurama's oh so present effect on his chakra reserve since birth.
Sage Mode, took Jiraiya years to master and still couldn't do so to the level of Naruto who mastered the technique in weeks.
Kage Bunshin, a forbidden B-Rank technique designed by the 2nd Hokage, Naruto, who failed to become a Genin that day, with absolutely no skill in Bunshin techniques is able to use Taju Kage Bunshin, an A-Ranked variant, within a couple of hours.
Rasengan, the pinnacle of shape manipulation and chakra control, Naruto, with no talent in shape manipulation or chakra control, manages to master the technique within a week.
As was confirmed by Tobirama and Orochimaru this chapter, the Susano'o formed is purely Sasuke's potential, Naruto's cloak has nothing to do with his potential, therefore it is his own potential. Itachi hasn't factored in yet other than with his eyesight, and he won't until Sasuke has mastered Itachi's double Mangekyou, and once he does he will be twice as strong. This should be obvious as was demonstrated by Madara and it will be the same with Naruto when Papa hands him the other half of his present.
Seriously, I don't fault either Sasuke or Naruto for any of this but seriously the irate character bashing and bias got on my nerves.
I see what you're saying but Kurama's Chakra has nothing to do with Sasuke's Senju Susanoo, Sasuke's Kurama cloak disappeared as soon as his Susanoo became complete, and yes as You said Juugo is providing the balance to keep Sasuke's Susanoo in sage mode. The way I see it, Juugo is Sasuke's partner so why can't he lend Sasuke chakra? No one seems to have a problem with Kurama doing the same for Naruto for 648 chapters... just sayin
KayaUzumaki
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I believe the things Hirudora says because they are true! Why is it that Sasuke fans always seem to pull out the "he had a worse life than Naruto" debate? By that argument, being loved by the village up until the point he abandoned it was the worst childhood ever. Did Sasuke have people hate him for no reason? No, all the people in the village held high hopes for Sasuke and all the kids (especially the girls) liked him. Did Sasuke grow up never knowing love? Obviously not the case since he knew his family and was well-liked by the village. On that basis alone,Naruto had all the ability and the rights to go on a rampage and destroy the village. He chose not to while Sasuke at one point in time wanted to kill innocent people.
You say that Sasuke is the only one who knows about pain of loss. What about Naruto who knows the pain of never having it? What about the pain of losing a brother to hatred? And what about the mental anguish of never knowing why he was alone all the time? Sasuke at least knew the reason. Honestly, Sasuke didn't seem to suffer that much since he put all his efforts into killing Itachi. The only times that come close to suffering are when he fought his brother.
As far as the level of opponents being fought...Naruto killed Kakuzu, defeated all of the Pains, helped to defeat Haku and Zabuza, defeated Gaara in Part 1, and that's just a few off the top of my head. At least two of those were Kage level while the others were Jonin level and all of them were to the death. And, if you want to complain about who has been crying this whole time then it's more than likely Sasuke.
The cloak is still inside the Susano, it is surrounding Sasuke and Juugo. The shape of the fox is still on, look closely.
If a hermit powered character doesn't have enough chakra reserves, they lose control easily. Naruto is playing part of the Susano'o Senjutsu Mode.
Another naruto fanboy I see lol... Naruto killed a Kakuzu who had already been fighting Shika, Ino, Cho, and Kakashi and already been killed once. Then Yamato came and had to save Naruto who rushed in head on like the genin he is, and after that with a incomplete jutsu he killed Kakuzu, Once again after Jiriya died, Kakashi died, and Hinata was half dead, Naruto defeated 2-3 of the Pains with COMPLETE details on their power, before begging Kurama for chakra again thus finally defeating the God path of Pain... So I'm guessing when you say he "helped" defeat Zabuza and Haku you're gonna disregard the fact that Kakashi, Sakura, and Sasuke was there too... and Sasuke risking his life to save Naruto... lol (you guys kill me with your short term memory loss). So i'm also guessing when you say he defeated Gaara, you'll also so Sasuke "helped" defeat him too right? And as far as lost you can't miss something you never had, if you never had chocolate then you can't say you miss chocolate... that would make you very very special.
I don't know if you're a Sasuke fanboy or a Naruto hater at this point, I'm not a Naruto fanboy but a proof guy who respected Sasuke when he used to be a genuine calculative battle-smart badass shinobi (yes, I'm talking about part 1). But I tell you... you're instancing Circumstancial Ad Hominem.
You should stop referencing the 'Naruto fanboys are wrong and because of that I'm right', that kind of argumenting is a sign of denial, and I could bet you are not that kind of guy.
You're smart. Show us what are you made of, bring your proofs, we can discuss at a higher level. I could even bring support for my own statements if you like.
But please, don't fall in that kind of falacy.
I'm a Sasuke fan, but not a fanboy. I'm also not a huge Naruto fan but I don't hate him, I like him just fine. My issue that I stated initially is the double standard that people have between the two characters. I think everyone should like who they like and be happy but for people to try to constantly downplay one characters achievements while boosting anothers is very annoying to me.
I kind of understand that, and that's the reason I feel annoyed because of chapter 648... it defies Narutoverse's logic. There are some possibilities that makes this asspull 'a not asspull' but they are too remote.
I would liked for Sasuke using Kirin (yeah, pure Natural Energy to damage that Obito bastard...). Kishimoto had the chance to put a spotlight just for Sasuke, he ruined it.
KayaUzumaki
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And yet they were at a loss on how to defeat him. Kakashi with his Sharingan eye was on the run towards the end of that fight. Not to mention that Kakuzu had a final form that he hadn't even used yet while fighting them. It was only after Naruto entered the battle and showed off his Rasenshuriken that Kakuzu decided to enter that form. Admittedly, Yamato had to keep Naruto from being impaled but that's all he did. Naruto specifically asked that the others let him handle Kakuzu, which he did with a powerful jutsu that even the 4th couldn't master.
Naruto trained to enter SM after Jiraiya died. He barely had time to recognize Kakashi's death upon his arrival on the battlefield. There were 6 Paths of Pain in total and Naruto defeated them all. Shall we count the ways? 1) an infuriated Naruto destroyed Pain's Asura Path with a Rasengan before it could attack Tsunade; 2) Naruto disposed of the Preta Path with Frog Kata before preparing the fruits of his senjutsu training: a perfected Rasenshuriken; 3) He hurled the attack at Pain's remaining bodies, and it expanded when it neared them, disintegrating the Human Path; 4) Realising that the Naraka Path had restored it, Naruto focused his efforts on getting rid of it by distracting the Deva Path with a smokescreen, and landing a great blow on the Naraka Path; 5) The Preta Path absorbed his chakra to make sure he was no longer a threat, but being unable to handle natural energy, the Preta Path turned into a frog statue, allowing Naruto to free himself; and 6) taking advantage of the five-second gap between its attacks, Naruto was finally able to defeat the Deva Path with his Rasengan and win the battle. You can find that all of that came from stated fact in the official Naruto wiki. At no point did he beg Kurama for power. Kurama tried to take control of Naruto through his angered emotions...something that was stopped by Minato as he replenished the seal. Also, Naruto defeated the final Pain with his Rasengan. There was no help from Kurama whatsoever.
I said "helped" because I recognize that Sasuke and Kakashi were the ones who were originally involved in the fight. However, Sasuke ended up being knocked unconscious by Haku's pressure point tactics. An angered Naruto is the one who got the upper hand on Haku while Kakashi is the one who killed him (accidentally mind you since he was aiming for Zabuza). Naruto is the one who ultimately convinced Zabuza to kill Gato and his minions. If you don't believe that then go back and rewatch that episode. Sakura didn't really do anything battle wise except for protect Tazuna.
Sasuke didn't really help defeat Gaara in my opinion. Yeah he pursued Gaara and initiated the fight but he was unable to handle the Sand Jinchuuriki. In fact, direct quote from the official Naruto wiki: "Naruto was put to sleep when the invasion began, but was awakened by Sakura so that they could go after Sasuke, who was pursuing Gaara in order to continue their fight. They caught up in time to stop Gaara from killing Sasuke." Note the bolded section.
Now to address your pain of loss argument. Real life example: I never knew my grandparents except for one. All the rest of my friends and family had a "complete" family meaning that they had 2 grandfathers and 2 grandmothers (one set on each side of the family tree). Do I miss my grandparents even though I never knew them? You better believe I do! It's the psychological pain of knowing that others have something you will NEVER be able to experience. Just because you've never had something doesn't mean that you can miss it, especially if you've had an inkling that it was once there. This is made worse if there are stories of these people. It only makes you miss them all the more. Plus, you keep forgetting that Naruto formed a bond with Sasuke which Sasuke subsequently broke in order to gain power. Naruto lost whom he considered a brother. That's pain of loss too.