This is getting tiresome Blaze.Put up or sh.t up becauae I can't argue against vague insinuations with no back up at all.
He cleary did and as far as I can remember, part 1 is still part of the manga, no? Not like Kishi asked us to dismiss everything in it and I don' tlike to guess whether or not Kisame got stronger since it's purely based on assumptions (we would need a new databook).
Nope. This tecnique has no limitation and can be used everywhere, however, its easier to trick people indoors- the databook makes this much clear .Nonesense to discuss why shinibo didn't do certain things in certain situations, unless the shinobi uses the technique everytime.Don't you cry every time someone brings up the fact that Itachi didn't use genjutsu against Nagato?
What you don't get is, you're breaking the time frame.Kisame was already getting swallowed by the ultimate defense (digested) and he wouldn't have time to pull off anything and, as I said, the defense according to the databook, is pretty much unbreakable.
Full databook entry:
Looking forward to it but I hope you put more effort into this one than your previous one which,honestly, was a mess
Still not good enough. You have to get over what happened/said in part 1 and look at the full picture which includes ninjutsu's shown in part2. Funny you didnt even counter the ninjutsu's i said kisame had available to him whilst in the oeso****us U_U.
Btw the databook has listed many techniques as nearly invincible and later on gets destroyed. Tbh, you do the same thing. Hide behind past events in part 1 and use databook for stats or something else. The techniques kisame has that ive listed would be very effective in the toad's stomach. If thats all you've got, past events and databook then this little argument would just be us going back and forth U_U
Still not good enough. You have to get over what happened/said in part 1 and look at the full picture which includes ninjutsu's shown in part2. Funny you didnt even counter the ninjutsu's i said kisame had available to him whilst in the oeso****us U_U.
Btw the databook has listed many techniques as nearly invincible and later on gets destroyed. Tbh, you do the same thing. Hide behind past events in part 1 and use databook for stats or something else. The techniques kisame has that ive listed would be very effective in the toad's stomach. If thats all you've got, past events and databook then this little argument would just be us going back and forth U_U
Which is both written by Kishi.You have to provide evidence to support your claims bro and until then you will never win the argument.Kisame would not have time to pull off anything and I have not limited Jiraiya's win with that feat alone.
I believe Kisame would defeat Jiriaya (Sage or otherwise) due to being able to launch gargantuan chakra-absorbing missiles with a mere clap of his hands, instantly manifest thousands of sharks in a tsunami, and effectively absorb Jiriaya's ninjutsu and regenerate any physical wounds through Samehada. I find Kisame to be one of the most immensely underrated ninja in versus threads.
natural chakra can turn Kisame and Samehada into stone.Jiraiya's hair jutsu can withstand and/or break Kisame's water jutsus, not to mention he has earth jutus (earth>water).
-spits out a massive orb from his mouth which is strong enough to crush a normal person. then uses that water to create 1000 sharks which bite and kill both gamabunta and jiraiya :|
-if he used toad guard prison then kisame could fill the whole prison with water and fuse with samaheda and just absorb the jiraiya's chakra
-swamp of the underworld? its mud or dense water mixed with earth he could just swim in it.
how about you think a little
Have you ever thought what would happen if Jiraiya filled the water orb with oil to mix with the water? (it will be flamable) Used fire blast then summons the toad stomach to protect him...boom goes Kisame. In toad stomach, what makes you think Kisame would have time to make the require hand seal? Jiraiya would have the snake-like tenicules would grab Kisame (note the floor would already cover Kisame's feet so he can't move) from all directions and separate Samehada. No absorbing from the toad or else they will turn into stone, frogs/toads have natural chakra. The tenicule would also stop Kisame if he started to make water come from his mouth. also since it's a toad it an produce oil (or Jiraiya himself) and mix it with the water to make it flamable, the toad stomach can use powerful fire blast that will burn Kisame to a crisp. Plus if you read your manga then you would know the swamp of underworld that you are referring to was used when Jiraiya used it to swallow Orochimaru's snake he was only at 30% of his power and he called it small so at full power it would swallow Kisame's water orb no problem. And the fact you use wiki further hurts your claim since anyone can edit it, use more reliable sources like
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. Jiraiya can turn Kisame into a frog with one hand (require hand seals).
Do you know how big swamp of the underworld is? No I'm not talking about the one he used to swallow Orochimaru's giant snake that was used with only 30% of Jiraiya power and he called small, I'm talking about it at full power. Water would turn earth to mud? are you dumb? Hiruzen used earth element to block the 2nd Hokage's powerful water jutsu. Earth>Water when the jutsus are on the same level or higher. You're thinking about Gaara's sand which is different than solid earth. Do you know oil makes water flamable? Jiraiya or Gamabuta can use it to to fill Kisame's water orb, then fire jutsu to blow it up. desummon Gamabuta and use his hair or toad stomach to protect him from the blast.
Which is both written by Kishi.You have to provide evidence to support your claims bro and until then you will never win the argument.Kisame would not have time to pull off anything and I have not limited Jiraiya's win with that feat alone.
Kisame would not have no time? How long go you think it takes to fuse with samahada, or summon 10000 sharks, or create mass water. Almost as if you are denying the fact that the jutsu's ive listed can break through and even defeat jiraiya in his own environment, therefore using databook
Anyway allow me to say this. That technique was said to be fire resistant, but also jiraiya claimed that no one has ever escaped, yet 5 seconds later both statements (fire resistant and non one escaping it) was proved wrong with amaterasu.
Talking about amaterasu, it was said to be unavoidable, yet i need not tell you that quiet alot of few ninja's have already avoided. Talking about the data book, it says that amaterasu is as hot as the sun, but if thats true A should be incinerated the moment it got him. We saw after his hand was chopped off that, amaterasu still hasnt turned it to ash and neither was the sumarai's armour.
The techniques ive listed that kisame has for his use should work U_U
natural chakra can turn Kisame and Samehada into stone.Jiraiya's hair jutsu can withstand and/or break Kisame's water jutsus, not to mention he has earth jutus (earth>water).
Have you ever thought what would happen if Jiraiya filled the water orb with oil to mix with the water? (it will be flamable) Used fire blast then summons the toad stomach to protect him...boom goes Kisame. In toad stomach, what makes you think Kisame would have time to make the require hand seal? Jiraiya would have the snake-like tenicules would grab Kisame (note the floor would already cover Kisame's feet so he can't move) from all directions and separate Samehada. No absorbing from the toad or else they will turn into stone, frogs/toads have natural chakra. The tenicule would also stop Kisame if he started to make water come from his mouth. also since it's a toad it an produce oil (or Jiraiya himself) and mix it with the water to make it flamable, the toad stomach can use powerful fire blast that will burn Kisame to a crisp. Plus if you read your manga then you would know the swamp of underworld that you are referring to was used when Jiraiya used it to swallow Orochimaru's snake he was only at 30% of his power and he called it small so at full power it would swallow Kisame's water orb no problem. And the fact you use wiki further hurts your claim since anyone can edit it, use more reliable sources like
You must be registered for see links
. Jiraiya can turn Kisame into a frog with one hand (require hand seals).
Do you know how big swamp of the underworld is? No I'm not talking about the one he used to swallow Orochimaru's giant snake that was used with only 30% of Jiraiya power and he called small, I'm talking about it at full power. Water would turn earth to mud? are you dumb? Hiruzen used earth element to block the 2nd Hokage's powerful water jutsu. Earth>Water when the jutsus are on the same level or higher. You're thinking about Gaara's sand which is different than solid earth. Do you know oil makes water flamable? Jiraiya or Gamabuta can use it to to fill Kisame's water orb, then fire jutsu to blow it up. desummon Gamabuta and use his hair or toad stomach to protect him from the blast.
Kisame would not have no time? How long go you think it takes to fuse with samahada, or summon 10000 sharks, or create mass water. Almost as if you are denying the fact that the jutsu's ive listed can break through and even defeat jiraiya in his own environment, therefore using databook
Anyway allow me to say this. That technique was said to be fire resistant, but also jiraiya claimed that no one has ever escaped, yet 5 seconds later both statements (fire resistant and non one escaping it) was proved wrong with amaterasu.
Talking about amaterasu, it was said to be unavoidable, yet i need not tell you that quiet alot of few ninja's have already avoided. Talking about the data book, it says that amaterasu is as hot as the sun, but if thats true A should be incinerated the moment it got him. We saw after his hand was chopped off that, amaterasu still hasnt turned it to ash and neither was the sumarai's armour.
The techniques ive listed that kisame has for his use should work U_U
We saw the walls inching in on him so logic would dictate that he wouldn't have time to do anything; hence the time frame issue.He was saved by Itachi and you can't compare anything in Kisame's arsenal to amaterasu (which is probably the strongest fire jutsu out there).Good point about the sun part but that only proves that they exaggerate sometimes, but solid backup nonetheless.We have not seen anything else break down the inescapable defense so its wrong to assume that any high level attack can escape it.
We saw the walls inching in on him so logic would dictate that he wouldn't have time to do anything; hence the time frame issue.He was saved by Itachi and you can't compare anything in Kisame's arsenal to amaterasu (which is probably the strongest fire jutsu out there).Good point about the sun part but that only proves that they exaggerate sometimes, but solid backup nonetheless.We have not seen anything else break down the inescapable defense so its wrong to assume that any high level attack can escape it.
Fist of all of i thought this thread was base jiraiya, not sm jiraiya not that it matters because when i create my thread you'd see why i believe jiraiya wouldnt be able to get into sm. Ill then create another scenario when he does get in him.
Lets use the scenario in part 1 in connection with the time frame. You saw that the wall of meat wasnt as fast from the beginning and started to gain pace. Kisame was running, what makes you think that a ninja running cannot form handseals?. If the wall of meat was closing in on him and he was to use 1000 feeding sharks, you cannot tell me that they wouldnt devour the meat and infact the whole technique which is meat.
Ive showed you techniques that kisame has, up his sleeve that would allow him. Again we if he was to fill up the oeso****us with water which he can, he can turn jiraiya's technique against him, because first of all, jiraiya cannot breath underwater, whilst kisame can (it would almost be like the water prison technique he used on bee), but if was to summon sharks and fuse with samahada, he can beat jiraiya in the oeso****us.
As you've noted yourself techniques get exaggerated and the oeso****us is no different, just because its only faced amaterasu and got destroyed doesnt mean that other techniques cannot destroy it. Cannot believe that somebody who defeated the 4 tailed jinchrucki and complained about being a little tired, but also defeated bee could be this underrated
Fist of all of i thought this thread was base jiraiya, not sm jiraiya not that it matters because when i create my thread you'd see why i believe jiraiya wouldnt be able to get into sm. Ill then create another scenario when he does get in him.
Lets use the scenario in part 1 in connection with the time frame. You saw that the wall of meat wasnt as fast from the beginning and started to gain pace. Kisame was running, what makes you think that a ninja running cannot form handseals?. If the wall of meat was closing in on him and he was to use 1000 feeding sharks, you cannot tell me that they wouldnt devour the meat and infact the whole technique which is meat.
Ive showed you techniques that kisame has, up his sleeve that would allow him. Again we if he was to fill up the oeso****us with water which he can, he can turn jiraiya's technique against him, because first of all, jiraiya cannot breath underwater, whilst kisame can (it would almost be like the water prison technique he used on bee), but if was to summon sharks and fuse with samahada, he can beat jiraiya in the oeso****us.
As you've noted yourself techniques get exaggerated and the oeso****us. Cannot believe that somebody who defeated the 4 tailed jinchrucki and complained about being a little tired, but also defeated bee could be this underrated
Jiraiya can still absorb natural energy even though he can't enter sage mode. So kisame would be toasted since he absorbs chakra from pretty much everyone he ever faces- simply his style, which would backfire here.
Jiraiya is clearly also faster than Kisame. In fact, his ninjutsu was quick enough to block Kisame in mid swing of his sword. Jiraiya's summon appeared when Naruto was, almost, done for.He even had woman on his back.
Jiraiya himself expected that no one could escape his toad, canon, so obviously you're underestimating the toad stomach technique.But as I said, Jiraiya is not limited to this attack alone. He could summon the gigantic gamabunta in an instant, on top off Kisame, and he would be ready to be picked apart.
Jiraiya can still absorb natural energy even though he can't enter sage mode. So kisame would be toasted since he absorbs chakra from pretty much everyone he ever faced-simply his style, which would backfire here.
Jiraiya is clealry also faster than Kisame. In fact, his ninjutsu was quick enough to block Kisame in mid swing of his word. Jiraiya's summon appeared when Naruto was, almost, done for.H even had woman on his back.
Jiraiya himself expected that no one could escape his toad, canon, so obviously you're underestimating the toad stomach technique.But as I said, Jiraiya is not limited to this attcak alone.He could summon the gigantic gamabunta in an instant, on top off Kisame, and he would be ready to be picked apart.
In order to gather natural energy you have to stand still, jiraiya wouldnt get this opportunity.. Secondly the speed difference between the two is 0.5 with jiraiya have the slight advantage. Im not underestimating the toad stomach technique, but if logic dictates its common sense to say 1000 feeding sharks, should be more than even to either eat their way through the wall of meat for kisame to escape or totally devour the technique which is meat all together, or am i missing something?
Loads of technique have been said to be unbeatable either by another character or by the user themselves. Darui was surprised that sasuke survvied liger bomb, susano got broken, amaterasu got evaded, tsukuyomi got broken, CHibaku tensei got destroyed. The list goes on.
As i said just because only amaterasu has faced it and destroyed it doesnt mean that other techniques cannot. But going by logic, 1000 sharks should.
Large summonings are used to counter the opponnets summoning. It isnt effective against a ninja, but you see from what we know of kisame before he fights he creates large mass of water. Therefore its likely that if jiraiay was to summon gamabunta he his lower body (feet) would be in water. If kisame was to summon sharks, then ca easily nibble on gamabunta's feet. Gamabunta and jiraiya's collabination techniques are fire techniques and against one of the best if not the best suiton user in the series with a stupidly large chakra reserve, he is countering this. Kisame has also shown great strength with large animals, which leads me to believe that he can out muscle gamabunta;
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Could argue gamabunta is bigger though U_U. More of kisame's strength feats;
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Dude im giving away my thread, even though im still carefully brushing up on things. When i create the thread will you see the full picture.
In order to gather natural energy you have to stand still, jiraiya wouldnt get this opportunity.. Secondly the speed difference between the two is 0.5 with jiraiya have the slight advantage. Im not underestimating the toad stomach technique, but if logic dictates its common sense to say 1000 feeding sharks, should be more than even to either eat their way through the wall of meat for kisame to escape or totally devour the technique which is meat all together, or am i missing something?
Loads of technique have been said to be unbeatable either by another character or by the user themselves. Darui was surprised that sasuke survvied liger bomb, susano got broken, amaterasu got evaded, tsukuyomi got broken, CHibaku tensei got destroyed. The list goes on.
As i said just because only amaterasu has faced it and destroyed it doesnt mean that other techniques cannot. But going by logic, 1000 sharks should.
Large summonings are used to counter the opponnets summoning. It isnt effective against a ninja, but you see from what we know of kisame before he fights he creates large mass of water. Therefore its likely that if jiraiay was to summon gamabunta he his lower body (feet) would be in water. If kisame was to summon sharks, then ca easily nibble on gamabunta's feet. Gamabunta and jiraiya's collabination techniques are fire techniques and against one of the best if not the best suiton user in the series with a stupidly large chakra reserve, he is countering this. Kisame has also shown great strength with large animals, which leads me to believe that he can out muscle gamabunta;
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Could argue gamabunta is bigger though U_U. More of kisame's strength feats;
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Dude im giving away my thread, even though im still carefully brushing up on things. When i create the thread will you see the full picture.
I will tell how many different ways Jiraiya can make shark dishes….U_U
First off, do not compare that thing to Gamabunta. Gamabunta is a boss summon who is not only Gigantic but also incredible agile and durable. His feats against Shukaka should speak for itself. He tanked Shukaku’s (a tailed beast) Wind release: Drilling Air bullet, which had previously destroyed the forrest and he confidently proclaimed that he could tank a couple more.His water release: Gunshot rivaled the tailed beast bomb, and he is able to shoot them one after the other (he can increase the damage depending on the chakra he puts in them), plus it doesn’t even need a water source so nothing Kisame can throw at him will be able to defeat this monster. Hell, he could even make things difficult for Kisame by blasting oil into the water. Gamabunta managed to hold down the strongest Kyuubi albeit for a moment, so holding Kisame would not be an issue at all, water or not (also incredible leaping abilities so he can also support Jiraiya with the navy battle ).Then imagine Gamaken and Gamahiro also entering the battle….wait.. Forget about them... What about ma and pa would can still perform their epic steel breaking combos .
You can’t honestly argue that Jiraiya didn’t manage to pull off an incredible feat against Kisame (with a woman on his back clearly making things harder for him) he succeeded in pulling off the whole contract/blood thing before Kisame managed to chop of Naruto’s leg. Jiraiya is clearly faster, we don’t where in the 5 scale he is, plus Kisame struggled against one of the minor toads.
Also Bad argument, in vs battle, to proclaim that shinibo only uses their summons against other summons. The fact is it can be used offensively and effectively against anybody and everybody. Minato effectively hold down the kyuubi and Jiraiya can perform it in an instant right above the target and the force alone would break Kisame in two.Kisame’s durability feats will probably allow him to survive however not before Jiraiya can finish him off with a Odama rasengan (forrest-busting tech). This much can’t be disputed.
NINJUTSU; Kuchiyose: Yatai Kuzushi no jutsu (Summoning: Cargo Shattering technique*)
User: Jiraiya
Offensive; Close, Medium, Long ranges; Rank: B
Main text
A destructive dive that takes full advantage of a giant Toad's bodily mass! The strength of the fall varies depending on the caster. In the case of someone like Jiraiya from the Sannin, the summon can be performed in an instant right above the target, further adding the great gravitational force of a good several hundred meters high dive to the Toad's own weight!!
Captions
-All strategies are meaningless! Such is the incomparably hard pressure of the Toad's abdomen!!
-The groundbreaking fall of the giant Toad!
Picture comment
-The earth-crawling python is efficiently attacked from above! Caught into the fall of the giant Toad, it cannot perform any technique, in spite of its characteristically sharp spirit..
Second off, You are also forgetting Jiraiya’s huge chakra reserve which would give him the option to create multiple clones (not to mention multiplesummons) which would nullify your perceived notion regarding Jiraiya’s inability to move. Those clones and/summons would fight Kisame evenly- more importantly they will be able to keep the distance which would give him plenty of time to absorb natural energy. Kisame absorbed Aoba’s chakra and he tried to do the same with Gai i.e. Kisame would, quietly, say goodbye and immediately turn into a statue and that would be a wrap.
Kisame is a perfect jinchuuriki hunter because he can, via samahada, eat up chakra shrouds’ like kids eat candy. However Jiraiya lacks the shroud which means Kisame would have to get up and close to perform his magic trick. Jiraiya is a midrange fighter so he could easily keep the distance (until he absorbed the necessary senjutsu). His hair jutsu is haxxed because he can send off a large quantity of them and he only needs one to connect for Kisame since to crumble. Kisame would regenerate however the game would continue and Jiraiya would only need one opening to overwhelm kisame, by the way, who he also outclasses when it comes to intelligenc. Lets us not forget that Bee’s chakra infused pencil would have penetrated Kisame’s defenses.Direct/immediate life-threatening techniques can still obliterate Kisame..
Water dome (by far kisame’s most dangerous technique).
This massive technique would overwhelm most people but Jiraiya possesses the perfect counters to render it useless:
Jiraiya would not only drown since he could easily summon a guard toad (while having the other summons fighting alongside with him) and go inside its stomach, but he can also mask his chakra inside of it. Jiraiya would then wait for Kisame to attack and command the toad guard to grap/teleport Kisame in an instant which would result in him getting KTFO. The acid would tear apart Kisame and there’s nothing he could do about it, no regeneration, no nothing.This is haxxed ability where, at the contractor’s command, it is possible to exit and or enter in an instant. If the opponent is too strong (not in this case far from it) he could pull a Minato an reverse summon him back to the toad mountain to recuperate.
Jiraiya could arguably also absorb natural energy inside one of the toads, of course by sacrificing it, and it would, surprise, result in another surprise for Kisame who basically absorbs everything inside that chakra infused water dome. Don’t forget that most of Kisame’s major water attacks e.g the water missiles depend on eating chakra, to get bigger and stronger, and Jiraiya would read this pretty quickly.
Finally, we have the swamp of the underworld which would devour/drain the dome in its entirety. Doton>Suiton. Jiraiya managed, with 30% chakra to sink another boss summon in Manda and the jutsu got no limitations regarding how wide and how deep the jutsu can get, which means Kisame is doomed, due to naruto/kishi logic. Kisame creates the dome from his own body via chakra and it would, in a direct confrontation, lose the battle against Jiraiya’s chakra infused swamp, and even if by some miracle it doesn’t drain it all, it will still manage to disperse it, because the The suiton jutsu would be useless without suiton chakra supporting it.
Btw, this jutsu can also be used before Kisame decides to play water polo and samahada can’t both drain the swamp and defend against Jiraiya attacks. Forget about whether or not Kisame can escape Jiraiya toad stomach defends ‘cause he’s simply outmatched in this fight.
and I don' tlike to guess whether or not Kisame got stronger since it's purely based on assumptions (we would need a new databook).
