Prince Charles
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preach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(dr.proof is still my day one nigga though so no shots fired)
Base Gai vs 3T Itachi
- Thread starter nakumaru
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preach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(dr.proof is still my day one nigga though so no shots fired)
NarutoIndra
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Yea I am not talking shit about him, I joined this forum because of one of his old threads, not that I'm going to suck up to him, but I respect him.preach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(dr.proof is still my day one nigga though so no shots fired)
Touken
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Surpass Gai? Based on him keeping up with KCM Naruto who's speed is inconsistent? Whereas Gai was able to intercept Haku in Ice Mirrors and Haku's meant to be almost instantaneous while in that technique.
Yeah, Itachi's clever but Gai's no slouch either. He was able to counter Kabuto's genjutsu before it had taken effect showing that he's experienced in acting against genjutsu.
Again, Gai can easily Kai out of that genjutsu. It's not a pain-inducing genjutsu so it doesn't paralyze him and thus shouldn't pose a problem. Naruto's never countered genjutsu using Kai so this is irrelevant.
Fire release enhanced kunai? Care to show me some scans of that? Gai has his nunchucks so he can effortlessly block those kunai with them and you're forgetting that he has to look into Itachi's eyes, not the other way around. They both have to establish an eye connection for Itachi to use his genjutsu. If Gai looks up he isn't going to look at Itachi's eyes, he'll be looking at said kunai.
KCM Naruto's speed is inconsistent. Sharingan's pre-cog isn't like Spidey's Spider Sense, it doesn't grant a guaranteed counter against physical attacks evidenced by Kakashi beating Obito in taijutsu and Obito not reading
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. Factor in Itachi's stamina which was awful and also factor in Gai's strength, who was able to punch a full grown man through a wall which was back in Part 1.
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Prince Charles
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Irrelevant as seeing Gai would barely be capable of even touching Itachi and keeping up with his hand sign jutsu execution.
This is sharigan genjutsu from a prodigy from the uchiha clan.
Except Gai has to first realize that he is even in the genjutsu that he would prompt him to break it, even then orochimaru has trouble breaking the genjutsu and if Gai tries to Itachi will proceed with the same method as he did against orochimaru via slicing his hand off. As for paralyzing genjutsu that is pretty much GG for Gai if he get's caught.
fire enhanced kunai[
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] and Gai deflecting all of them if his nun chucks? Likely but it's still possible he can still get hit by one,
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NarutoIndra still brings up a good point regarding Gai looking up he would be susceptible to genjutsu. And if Gai is too busy dealing with the kunai that would be a great chance to make a great body clone explosion and send it over to Gai and bam. GG.I do agree kcm naruto hardly used his speed against edo itachi but never the less he still showed impressive evasive and speed and reaction feats against Bee and naruto at the period of time and also the sharigan is known for keeping track of
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.
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Touken
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Why would Gai want to keep up with his hand sign jutsu execution if he's just going to dodge the Katon anyway? It's only the hand signs which are fast, not the Katon coming at him.
Finger/Crow genjutsu isn't Sharingan genjutsu.
Could you show me scans of that please? I can't review it because I've forgotten which chapter it was in. I was under the assumption that paralyzing genjutsu only came from Sharingan genjutsu, I agree it'd be GG for Gai but he's not going to look into his eyes.
Thanks for the scan. All Gai has to do is jump back, since those shuriken only cover a small area, which is possible for him given the reactions he's shown. Bee's reaction feats aren't on par with Gai's. Itachi didn't have to tell him, I'm pretty sure Bee would have countered that even if he wasn't told considering Bee didn't show the least bit of being surprised. Manga's shown that those who are surprised give a '!!' speech bubble, as shown when Obito couldn't read Gai's attack in the previous scan. Bee didn't have the same '!!' speech bubble. Again, all he has to do is jump back. Bee couldn't because he was already airborne.
Gai's movement may be linear but his combat style, Strong Fist, isn't which is why Obito couldn't read some of his attacks and had to use Kamui to phase through them. Ay's & Bee's combat style (without the swords) is very linear, they mainly rely on wrestling techniques. You gotta differentiate between combat and movement; Gai's movement's predictable but his combat isn't. Same goes for Bee, Sasuke could read the way he moved but he couldn't read his combat style (when he was using his swords) IIRC.
Itachi has to end this quickly because his stamina's awful and I highly doubt he's beating Gai quickly.
NarutoIndra
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You clearly seem to doubt Itachi's speed. Let me teach you a thing or two about Itachi's superior speed...
[
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]-->[
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] In x, Itachi's speed is quite far from Bee and Naruto. His blitz is quick enough to prevent Bee from reacting, someone who has shown immense reaction speed throughout the manga, distinctly displayed in the Minato fight. The only reason KCM Naruto reacted was because he is a sensor and can sense Itachi's future negative actions. Note the '!!?' that is used in the scan, when Bee is constantly being caught off guard. [
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]-->[
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] Again here, one should note the distance part in x between the two teams. In y, however, Itachi blitzes so quickly he catches Bee off guard, and has to inform Bee of his whereabouts to give Bee a chance of evading. Note both of these are on the likes of someone who is in top 5 reaction speed of NV. His reactions have shown to stop Minato's FTG, twice [
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][
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]. Itachi blitzing him as something to be truly praised..Another great example of Itachi's immense speed is given here [
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]-->[
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]. Bee and KCM Naruto attempted to strike Itachi whilst Itachi was speaking. Yet, Itachi still managed to effortlessly dodge. However, that isn't the impressive speed, the impressive speed is shown in y, when he's already went back to position next to Nagato, while Bee and Naruto's positions remain completely unchanged. Notice Bee and Naruto's positions from x>y, there's absolutely no difference, not even Naruto's headband and Bee's scarf have moved, which is truly an impressive feat. For his final feat [
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], it is once again impressive. He blitzes a SM user, who not only has increased reaction speed and sensing abilities, but also effortlessly dodged half the attacks used by Sasuke and Itachi, in addition to Enton arrows. I am not going to completely reply to the rest now hat you realise the difference in speed. I will add that fire enhanced kunai's are seen here [
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]. Gai looking up to where Itachi jumps would result in him being put under genjutsu. tai not looking up will result in him not realising what is occurring, and attempting to block when he finally notices them, at which point he will be severely burned and vulnerable. Naruto had help to counter the genjutsu's he's been put in, so it is indeed relevant. Gai having been put under crow genjutus can be chained with another genjutsu of a higher caliber. Finger genjtsu is always relevant when he doesn't make complete eye contact. The scan of Sharingan failing is inaccurate. First of all, Obito did remain unaffected, so your point was moot. Second of all, Obito was fighting KCM Naruto, Gai, and Kakashi. You don't seem to realise fighting 3 opponents at once is different from focusing all your sight on a single opponent, which is easy to read due to his linear fighting style. Itachi will not be hit in the first place to have to react to Gai's mediocre strength. Your part 1 reference doesn't prove anything, the guy was an extreme fodder, I don't even consider that a feat seeing as though Itachi can do that with ease as well to some random fodder... Anyways, clone feints destroy Gai. Crow clones that are hit end up changing to kunai's and attacking Gai, all the while Itachi si attacking from behind. Clone feints are easily enough to destroy Gai with the speed Itachi uses them at, which is often underrated. Gai will punch though an explosive clones, and end up leaving himself vulnerable. Anyways, chakra won't be as much of a factor as you're making it to be. His only jutsu's will be clone feints, shunshin, and kunai's enhanced with Katon. Hell he did tonnes more than this in his fight with Sasuke, and he was at the verge of death by then. You have to realise amateratsu techniques without EMS are extremely taxing, hence why people often say "Itachi's stamina isn't enough to fight for longer than 5 minutes" and other nonsense like that. Just remember, this is 3T Itachi using rather non-taxing abilities.
iSpyder
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Base Gai will win, Mid-Diff
Itachi may have praised Gai to be strong and all, but even I know that Gai would have a hard time defeating Itachi.
Gai's feats and skills:
- Taijustu/Speed: I have a feeling Gai can easily outpace Itachi in speed and agility. Gai is a powerhouse made for Close Combat so there's no doubt he would be caught off guard by Itachi's speed. PLUS his Counter Sharingan technique allows him to predict the movements of his opponent even though its yet to be seen in play, we can consider this a perfect counter to Itachi. If Gai can even get a grip on Itachi, it's pretty much over.
- Hirudora: Gai was able to use a low scaled version of this in his base form which was enough to take out Madara AND his susanoo despite its smaller size. There's no way Itachi can counter or even avoid this without possibly activating his Mangekyo Sharingan or using an ass-pull technique which Kishi would hand him.
- Counter Sharingan: Again, the perfect counter to Itachi would be this skill allowing Gai to avoid Itachi's gay fantasies and keep an eye on his foot movement. This ability plus his Muscle Memory would allow Gai to effectively handle Itachi in close combat.
The only difficulty Gai would have would be against Itachi's elemental techniques which he has no counter for other than dodging it, which would put Gai on his toes to see what Itachi's gonna throw at him next. Itachi's not one to let anything slip past him so he would have to analyse Gai carefully to exploit his taijutsu style or keep up with him in anyway
Itachi may have praised Gai to be strong and all, but even I know that Gai would have a hard time defeating Itachi.
Gai's feats and skills:
- Taijustu/Speed: I have a feeling Gai can easily outpace Itachi in speed and agility. Gai is a powerhouse made for Close Combat so there's no doubt he would be caught off guard by Itachi's speed. PLUS his Counter Sharingan technique allows him to predict the movements of his opponent even though its yet to be seen in play, we can consider this a perfect counter to Itachi. If Gai can even get a grip on Itachi, it's pretty much over.
- Hirudora: Gai was able to use a low scaled version of this in his base form which was enough to take out Madara AND his susanoo despite its smaller size. There's no way Itachi can counter or even avoid this without possibly activating his Mangekyo Sharingan or using an ass-pull technique which Kishi would hand him.
- Counter Sharingan: Again, the perfect counter to Itachi would be this skill allowing Gai to avoid Itachi's gay fantasies and keep an eye on his foot movement. This ability plus his Muscle Memory would allow Gai to effectively handle Itachi in close combat.
The only difficulty Gai would have would be against Itachi's elemental techniques which he has no counter for other than dodging it, which would put Gai on his toes to see what Itachi's gonna throw at him next. Itachi's not one to let anything slip past him so he would have to analyse Gai carefully to exploit his taijutsu style or keep up with him in anyway
Touken
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What Bee displayed wasn't reaction speed since you can't react to instant. He anticipated it, there's a massive difference. You'll have to bring up some other reaction feats to convince me Itachi's speed's greater than Gai's.NarutoIndra said:
Wasn't a blitz since Kabuto was distracted in the page before. [
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]I don't think Itachi's ever used a Katon tech and Sharingan genjutsu at the same time, which explains why he didn't do the exact same thing to Bee considering he looked up at the shuriken but wasn't caught in a genjutsu.
Naruto had help because he couldn't use Kai effectively enough to overcome Itachi's genjutsu which makes sense since he's had no experience in countering genjutsu.
Obito only remained unaffected because he has Kamui. Does Itachi have Kamui to phase through attacks? No. Irrelevant, his focus was completely on Gai since he said 'I'll start with you'. [
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] Naruto was doing nothing and only jumped into the fight after Gai and Obito had their little battle, and Kakashi was building up chakra to Kamui the Mazo's neck. Also, you don't need to focus for Sharingan's pre-cog to work so even if all 3 of them launched an attack, he'd still be able to predict their attacks via his Sharingan.Mediocre? lol, show me a scan of Itachi doing something similar to that. Him being a fodder is irrelevant since the only other shinobi to have displayed impressive durability feats are the 3rd & 4th Raikage. If Itachi was hit by that punch he'd still go flying through the wall.
Gai was able to anticipate attacks even though his opponent was completely behind him [
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] so he isn't going to be distracted. Kakashi was able to determine the explosive clone was a clone so I'm pretty sure Gai can do the same.True, but Gai's stamina is still superior to Itachi's.
I think I'll leave it here though, I'm no expert on Gai and so I can't really remember his feats, I'm hoping caterpillar will jump in for me.
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NarutoIndra
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Incorrect. The interval after FTG has been used is not instant. bee reacted to the interval in which Minato was about to stab, and reacted. You are the on who will need evidence to back up such fallacious claims, as I am simply speaking of what I see in the manga, which I hope everyone would do. Bring me Gai's base speed lmao. I provided more than enough evidence to prove Itachi's speed, if you are still in denial, then you aren't worth arguing with seeing as how stubborn you would be. It was a blitz distracted or not. He's in SM after all.
Deductive Fallacy. Only because he didn't show it doesn't mean he can't do it. As long as nothing suggests he cannot, there's no argument on your side here. His left hand is clearly free.
Fair enough. You still fail to realise that once Gai has Kai'd out, he isn't in the state he was in right before he was put in genjutsu, hence my point of him looking into genjutsu.
What? The whole argument was regarding the sharingan reading people throughly. If he used Kamui, then he obviously read through the movements and reacted. More so, Gai is fighting Itachi, in a 1v1, this isn't a 3v1, so I see no reason as to why Itachi would have problems reacting. His reaction speed is beyond anyone's in the manga since he reacted to Kirin, which comes at 1/1000's of a second. The last bit is fallacious once again. Fighiting one on one is in no way equivalent to the focus of a three on one, whether the allies are taking part or not, seeing as though he has to stay on the lookout. This applies especially to this scenario. no one wants to get by naruto's Bijuu rasengan.
No he wouldn't lel. Itachi building up chakra under his feet completely nullifies any of the effects the punch had. Furthermore, Gai is never going to unleash such power against Itachi, who can fight him in taijutsu while creating clones, without having Gai even remotely realise since Sasuke, with a 3T Sharingan didn't...
Lel, shitty comparison. Gai will not see Itachi go behind him seeing as though the seal speed is so quick, a 3T Sharingan can't catch up nor notice the clone. tai isn't reacting unless his sight is better than Sasuke's. More so, Gai only reacted in that scene because he saw Obito phase behind him, hence expected an attack. Even a 12 year old would've realised the attack was coming, saying this is some exclusive feat of anticipation is amusing. Kakashi has ummm.. A sharingan? Gai... Does not?..............
And? Itachi ends this long before he's taking deep breathes.
I can tell, no offence, but all your exploits were based around a single fight with Obito, which wasn't very impressive considering Obito was on the lookout for 2 other extremely dangerous opponents. Itachi being in a 1v1 with even better reaction speed would easily end this via unanticipated attacks.
Touken
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lmao, you're now claiming FTG has an interval? Where do you see an interval
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? He didn't react to the interval, he so the oh so obvious kunai behind Ay and acted accordingly. You claiming anyone can react to FTG is preposterous. Yeah, that wasn't evidence of Bee reaction feats though, was it? Gai & Lee reacting to Haku in Ice Mirrors: [
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] [
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] Haku in Ice Mirrors was able to destroy all of Naruto's shadow clones before a single drop of water touched the ground. [
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]. He also states that people seem to move in slow motion when he's in Ice Mirrors. [
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].And what's that meant to mean? People in SM can't get distracted?
Then it means it's not IC for him since he was in a complete replica of this hypothetical situation before and didn't do as you said so this point is moot.
What? I'm not sure what your point is here.
It's completely different when it comes to Kamui. Are you implying he's reacted to stuff he couldn't possibly have been aware of or seen? [
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]He had no idea that kunai was coming at him and yet he was able to phase through it, which means he couldn't have seen it through Sharingan pre-cog. Kamui has nothing to do with Sharingan pre-cog.
And again, I've already told you, Obito's Sharingan pre-cog was unable to follow Gai's combat style and thus was unable to react to it. This has got nothing to do with reactions considering he'll be unable to follow Gai's attacks. And no, he didn't react to Kirin since Sasuke
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. Secondly, all Itachi has to do is think to activate Susanoo. lol, it doesn't matter to Obito since he can phase through any attack the others throw at him, which is exactly the reason why he didn't worry about any of the others jumping in. Obito doesn't need to stay on the lookout.@bold That's fanfiction. No one's ever built up chakra in their feet to stop them from going flying from a punch. Even if Itachi did that, he'd probably will be knocked out cold by that punch or at least dizzy. Sasuke doesn't nearly have the same experience as Gai does and the Sharingan doesn't help distinguish clones from people IIRC.
lol, reactions =/= precognition. Gai's reactions are above Sasuke's and can you also bring up scans? I'm having a hard time remembering such scenes. Yeah, no. A 12 year old wouldn't have realized where the attack will land whereas Gai did. Again, Sharingan doesn't help distinguish between clones and the real person since the chakra is divided equally.
Because Obito's the only Sharingan-wielding shinobi Gai has fought from what we've seen from the manga. Also, in almost every other battle Gai's been in he's used Gates, something that's restricted in this battle.
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NarutoIndra
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Re-read son. I said there's an interval after he's reached the location, in which he has to thrust his rasengan or stab with his kunai. It was clearly reacting, saying otherwise shows your lack of comprehension. The rest doesn't matter. Bee has good reactions as portrayed several times whether it was in his fight with Sasuke and Juugo or his fight with Minato. Repetetively denying this is clearly demonstrating how stubborn you are being here.
This is edo tensei. Kabuto is still in partial control of Itachi's movements so saying this is IC for Itachi is once again fallacy. My point remains valid.
I will change this up since you seem to have a misconception. Gai never broke out of genjutsu, he deflected it before it occurred since it was visible [
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]. Gai has no feats of releasing genjutsu once he's in it, so suggesting he can is a baseless assumption. Crow genjutsu is easily enough to get him into genjutsu. Whenever Kamui is activated, any part of the body which is being touched will be overlapped and sent to another dimension. So you are only partially correct. Obito uses Kamui when he needs to and deactivates it when he needs to. However, from the '!' it is obvious Obito is reacting. Anyways, I don't want to get into this since it is slightly irrelevant. If you are suggesting someone who reacted to Kirin is getting caught off guard, then I have nothing more to say here. Itachi's sharingan is more than enough to read through Gai with ease, especially with Itachi's reaction speed.
Saying Obito didn't react is an assumption. He simply phased through it as that was his best option. More so, he was fighting three opponents. your point remains moot and I have addressed Itachi's superior reaction speed, so your comparisons of Itachi and Obito remain invalid. leo at your ignorance. He reacted, he simply wasn't surprised. Big difference. He would've never used Susano at such a speed if he didn't react, having intel on it doesn't increase the chances of reacting to it on the last second.
Lol? Deva said ST can be partially countered by building up chakra in the feet, as Tsunade and the Anbu division did. However, that didn't overcome massive ST's, which completely overshadow a punch from Gai. Gai isn't moving or hitting itachi, so your point is still invalid here as well. Itachi uses clone feint. Lmao at your desperate attempts to make arguments. Itachi isn't getting hit, simple as that. Why wouldn't Sharingan help? Nothing suggests it contains the same quantity of chakra as the original user. More so, even if it did, Gai would never realise seeing as though someone as intelligent as Kurenai didn't.
I am not going to bother bringing scans into this. I don't see you eventually chaining your mind anyways, so me bringing scans is a waste of time to be honest. Anyways, the sharingan's ability is not only precognition if you did not know.. It allows you to notice the most minuscule details. Since I am in a good mood, I will add this as my final scan since you seem to have forgotten the scene [
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]. After this intense kunai scene, Itachi was still capable of creating a Kage bunshin without letting Sasuke realise due to his extreme hand seal speed as seen here [
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]. And, yes if someone phased right behind you in a battle, it is only obvious he will attack your back. Saying it is something which the norm wouldn't anticipate is fallacious. Anyways, Kurenai didn't anticipate it whist being much more intelligent then Gai, so saying Gai will anticipate such a thing is an absurdity.Doesn't change the fact Obito's reaction speed is on a lower level than that of Itachi's. Doesn't change the fact Itachi has two sharingans while Obito has one. Your point remains moot and that is all that matters. If you want to unrestict gates, then unrestrict MS. Itachi stomps.
adeshina365
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Itachi wins.
Gai's only chance is with gates.
Gai's only chance is with gates.