Ay vs gai

[EZQ]

Vision issues with Kakashi moving at high speeds. The main issue is vision issues. Unrelated to Kakashi being able to do so or not via his own reaction speed.

Reaction speed is how good the reflexes work. Reflexes are linked from the eye to the brain and the body.

What? Now you are blatantly ignoring what Minato states in favor of your own opinion. Minato states that Kakashi can't react because he can't see the counter. Why are you still trying to force your interpretation here when it's clearly wrong.

Kakashi moves so fast that he can't see the next movement, or process it. Same conclusion. Not sure where the bold came from, but it was never stated. Not once.

I didn't mean the counter was too fast. Speed is relative, if kakashi is moving at a high speed against the opponent, even if the oponent is not moving, his counter would be fast, since the speed of his counter would be + the speed of the opponent coming at him.

Kakashi didn't see the counter because it was "too fast" to his eyes. Not the counter itself.

No, I didn't. I addressed all this. Repeating the definition of reaction and not countering the main points aren't helping you here.

1. Minato attacks Madara. Minato is too slow so Minato gets cut.

2. Gai attacks Madara--->Gai is too fast so Madara doesn't cut him down like he did Minato. Thus Gai strike speed>Madara strike speed>Minato strike speed.

If Gai's striking speed is faster than Madara's, that means he can react to Madara's while Minato can't, thus Gai's reaction speed>SM Minato's reaction speed.

Why did you post this again? This is not supported, and it is countered by the fact that Ay suffered the same as Kakashi did. Tunel vision or not, High speed disorts vision. Not at the same rate every time.

High speed resizes the time to react.

What? :lol Where? You mean against Madara? Because that is not even close to what happened. He tried to attack and failed because he was cut down before he could react.

He used FTG and rushed against madara. I'm sure he atacked as fast as he could, obviously, and got countered.

Wrong. Ay was mid attack, thus even if he could react (which he obviously can) he can't evade since he's already attacked. Has nothing to do with tunnel vision, him being unable to do so because he was too slow or any of that nonsense you are implying.

What? Oh so reacting but not being able to evade is useful? that means he reacted too late, meaning he didn't react on time, meaning he didn't react to the atack.

This is your argument: You can react to your own speed or lower

Ay didn't. He didn't react, and i didn't mention tunel vision here, high speed resizes the time to react and that happened to Ay, nothing to do with his vision.

Yes. CQC=Attack and Defense.

....

 

[KidGamer65]

Reaction speed is how good the reflexes work. Reflexes are linked from the eye to the brain and the body.

And once again, if you can't even perceive what you are trying to react to then it doesn't matter whether or not you are fast enough to react. How many times am I going to have to state this? Jesus Christ. Naruto is fast enough to react to a Kunai thrown by his son in Base. Take away Naruto's eyesight and all other forms of perception and toss a Kunai at him. What happens? He gets hit. Does that mean that he was too slow? No.

And where in the world did you get the bold from? Reflexes aren't body parts or any kind of organ inside of you.

I didn't mean the counter was too fast. Speed is relative, if kakashi is moving at a high speed against the opponent, even if the oponent is not moving, his counter would be fast, since the speed of his counter would be + the speed of the opponent coming at him.

Kakashi moving fast doesn't mean his opponent's movements will be fast to him. Kakashi moving that fast means that he can't properly perceive the counter. Has nothing to do with the opponent's speed. Only his speed. And once again, this falls back on his VISION. Not his reaction speed.

Why did you post this again? This is not supported, and it is countered by the fact that Ay suffered the same as Kakashi did. Tunel vision or not, High speed disorts vision. Not at the same rate every time.

I posted this because you are ignoring it and/or replying with things irrelevant to the point. And now you are throwing baseless assumptions around as if they help your point. :lol Ay got hit because he was in the middle of an attack, not because he was moving extremely fast, especially since he was only using an elbow attack. :lol You don't make sense.

He used FTG and rushed against madara. I'm sure he atacked as fast as he could, obviously, and got countered.

Hiraishin is teleportation. His body doesn't move. And please don't lie about the Manga panels. :lol Minato teleports, and tries to swing, but Madara hits him first. What high speed was he moving at? :lol Tunnel vision would only occur if he was running btw, not striking. Making this whole discussion irrelevant.

What? Oh so reacting but not being able to evade is useful? that means he reacted too late, meaning he didn't react on time, meaning he didn't react to the atack.

Already explained why.

This is your argument: You can react to your own speed or lower

Ay didn't. He didn't react, and i didn't mention tunel vision here, high speed resizes the time to react and that happened to Ay, nothing to do with his vision.



....

1. Stop mentioning high speed. Ay moving his elbow to hit Sasuke's face=/=Ay moving at a high enough speed to negatively affect his ability to dodge. Ay didn't dodge because Ay was in the middle of another physical action, and that was attacking.

2. You can react to your own speed or lower. That's a fact.

-Gai strikes faster than Madara as Madara was unable to cut him down.
-Thus Gai can react to Madara's strike as he can react to his own speed and lower.
-Thus his reactions>Minato's, who couldn't react.

Stop using Ay as an example when Ay's scenario is nothing like this scenario here.

 

[EZQ]

And once again, if you can't even perceive what you are trying to react to then it doesn't matter whether or not you are fast enough to react. How many times am I going to have to state this? Jesus Christ. Naruto is fast enough to react to a Kunai thrown by his son in Base. Take away Naruto's eyesight and all other forms of perception and toss a Kunai at him. What happens? He gets hit. Does that mean that he was too slow? No.

And where in the world did you get the bold from? Reflexes aren't body parts or any kind of organ inside of you.






Kakashi moving fast doesn't mean his opponent's movements will be fast to him. Kakashi moving that fast means that he can't properly perceive the counter. Has nothing to do with the opponent's speed. Only his speed. And once again, this falls back on his VISION. Not his reaction speed.





I posted this because you are ignoring it and/or replying with things irrelevant to the point. And now you are throwing baseless assumptions around as if they help your point. :lol Ay got hit because he was in the middle of an attack, not because he was moving extremely fast, especially since he was only using an elbow attack. :lol You don't make sense.





Hiraishin is teleportation. His body doesn't move. And please don't lie about the Manga panels. :lol Minato teleports, and tries to swing, but Madara hits him first. What high speed was he moving at? :lol Tunnel vision would only occur if he was running btw, not striking. Making this whole discussion irrelevant.


Already explained why.



1. Stop mentioning high speed. Ay moving his elbow to hit Sasuke's face=/=Ay moving at a high enough speed to negatively affect his ability to dodge. Ay didn't dodge because Ay was in the middle of another physical action, and that was attacking.

2. You can react to your own speed or lower. That's a fact.

-Gai strikes faster than Madara as Madara was unable to cut him down.
-Thus Gai can react to Madara's strike as he can react to his own speed and lower.
-Thus his reactions>Minato's, who couldn't react.

Stop using Ay as an example when Ay's scenario is nothing like this scenario here.

I just noticed something. I can't argue with you.

We see things too diferent. I could quote you and you would re quote me infinite times and this would make no sense.

 

[KidGamer65]

It's because you are denying fact, but ok.

 

[WreckRolled]

I suggest you think about this harder before replying again.

1. Minato attacks Gai. Minato's attack is slower than Madara's strike, Madara cuts his arm off before he can even react.

2. Gai attacks Madara, is so fast that instead of even trying to cut him down, he jumps back. Thus Gai's speed was too much for him to just cut him down.

Meaning Madara's attempt to cut him down would've failed, meaning Gai would be able to react to Madara's strike while Minato can't, thus Gai>Sage Minato in reaction speed.

wrong again, your logic is right until you get to the conclusion, that part makes no logical sense, madara had no time to swing his staff because gai s attack was a flury of attacks in quick succession, it doesn t mean that gai would be able to react to it, he was also in no position to get out of the way because his feet were in the air, also regardless of that gai can t follow v2 ay movement, meaning he could get attacked in the back where he can t react, ay has more durability and enhanced reflexes therefore i give him the edge in this battle

 

[KidGamer65]

wrong again, your logic is right until you get to the conclusion, that part makes no logical sense, madara had no time to swing his staff because gai s attack was a flury of attacks in quick succession, it doesn t mean that gai would be able to react to it, he was also in no position to get out of the way because his feet were in the air, also regardless of that gai can t follow v2 ay movement, meaning he could get attacked in the back where he can t react, ay has more durability and enhanced reflexes therefore i give him the edge in this battle

Why reply if you are just going to repeat the same exact thing that the others have been saying the entire time, the same people who don't make any sense.

Now please ask yourself "WHY?" Madara wasn't able to attack? Stop going on about this flurry of attacks nonsense when in reality it wasn't a flurry of attacks, he attacked him 3 times and instead of countering, Madara jumped back. The initial punch wasn't countered either, and since it's the initial strike, this "flurry of attacks" excuse that you guys are fond of throwing around doesn't matter. All it does is prove that Gai>Madara in striking speed. :lol Inb4 "No it doesn't", can someone slower than Madara, like Konohamaru do the same thing because "lol flurry of attacks"? Obviously not.

Madara was unable to attack because Madara's striking speed is inferior. If Madara's striking speed is slower than Gai's, then Gai can obviously react to it because he can react to his own speed. Minato couldn't. Thus Gai>Minato in reaction speed.

Madara was unable to cut him down, meaning if he had tried to do so, he would've failed because Gai would react, unlike Minato. Thus Gai>Minato in reaction speed. This isn't rocket science.

2. Gai attacks Madara, is so fast that instead of even trying to cut him down, he jumps back. Thus Gai's speed was too much for him to just cut him down.

Meaning Madara's attempt to cut him down would've failed, meaning Gai would be able to react to Madara's strike while Minato can't, thus Gai>Sage Minato in reaction speed.

Saying that the conclusion makes no sense, makes no sense because if 1 and 2 are true, the conclusion is true. :lol Not even sure what the bold underlined part is talking about. But it sounds like an excuse, an irrelevant one at that because Madara getting away or not is irrelevant to the point.

And stop overrating Ay. If Gai reacts faster than Sage Minato, he obviously follows Ay since Base Minato was able to react to Ay. If Ay tries to get Gai's back, Gai reacts and hits him with Hirudora.

 

[Lariatoo]

It could go either way, really. And Gai's feat of "pressuring" JJ Madara in the Seventh Gate is more overhyped than Hashi's "Juubi sized air palm"

 

[WreckRolled]

Why reply if you are just going to repeat the same exact thing that the others have been saying the entire time, the same people who don't make any sense.

Now please ask yourself "WHY?" Madara wasn't able to attack? Stop going on about this flurry of attacks nonsense when in reality it wasn't a flurry of attacks, he attacked him 3 times and instead of countering, Madara jumped back. The initial punch wasn't countered either, and since it's the initial strike, this "flurry of attacks" excuse that you guys are fond of throwing around doesn't matter. All it does is prove that Gai>Madara in striking speed. :lol Inb4 "No it doesn't", can someone slower than Madara, like Konohamaru do the same thing because "lol flurry of attacks"? Obviously not.

Madara was unable to attack because Madara's striking speed is inferior. If Madara's striking speed is slower than Gai's, then Gai can obviously react to it because he can react to his own speed. Minato couldn't. Thus Gai>Minato in reaction speed.

Madara was unable to cut him down, meaning if he had tried to do so, he would've failed because Gai would react, unlike Minato. Thus Gai>Minato in reaction speed. This isn't rocket science.



Saying that the conclusion makes no sense, makes no sense because if 1 and 2 are true, the conclusion is true. :lol Not even sure what the bold underlined part is talking about. But it sounds like an excuse, an irrelevant one at that because Madara getting away or not is irrelevant to the point.

And stop overrating Ay. If Gai reacts faster than Sage Minato, he obviously follows Ay since Base Minato was able to react to Ay. If Ay tries to get Gai's back, Gai reacts and hits him with Hirudora.

you like writing walls of text, i did say earlier that the speed of that specific attack>minato's rasengan, that doesn t prove that he can react to his own speed, this is a point that you already failed to prove before so why go in circles ? the conclusion is unrelated to statement 1 and 2, if madara was able to counter minato's attack but only able to avoid gai's attack then gai was faster in that case so madara did not have the extra time to swing his staff, that is to be expected since minato is not as fast as ay or gated gai

 

[Zexion~]

Hirodura ends him.

 

[KidGamer65]

you like writing walls of text, i did say earlier that the speed of that specific attack>minato's rasengan, that doesn t prove that he can react to his own speed, this is a point that you already failed to prove before so why go in circles ? the conclusion is unrelated to statement 1 and 2, if madara was able to counter minato's attack but only able to avoid gai's attack then gai was faster in that case so madara did not have the extra time to swing his staff, that is to be expected since minato is not as fast as ay or gated gai

Because I have to say the same thing over 5x before you people get the point. And now, just like the other one, you are claiming that Gai can't react to his own speed when that is physically impossible. Lol you people need to think before you reply. Reaction speed means that you can mentally and or physically respond to something. How can Gai not respond to a speed slower than his, when he already moves at a faster speed?

The crazy part is, the point has still flown over your head. Are you people reading before you reply? Gai strikes faster than Madara, thus he will react to Madaras strike as Madara is slower. It's really that simple. Stop with the Piss poor arguments please. It's getting ridiculous.

 

[WreckRolled]

Because I have to say the same thing over 5x before you people get the point. And now, just like the other one, you are claiming that Gai can't react to his own speed when that is physically impossible. Lol you people need to think before you reply. Reaction speed means that you can mentally and or physically respond to something. How can Gai not respond to a speed slower than his, when he already moves at a faster speed?

The crazy part is, the point has still flown over your head. Are you people reading before you reply? Gai strikes faster than Madara, thus he will react to Madaras strike as Madara is slower. It's really that simple. Stop with the Piss poor arguments please. It's getting ridiculous.

again prove it, reaction time is only requiered when you are attacked not when you attack, there is no correlation between strike speed and reaction time, once you get 3 tomoe sharingan you react faster but you aren t faster yourself so that disproves point argument unless you can debunk the argument that i just made give an argument of your own

 

[KidGamer65]

again prove it, reaction time is only requiered when you are attacked not when you attack, there is no correlation between strike speed and reaction time, once you get 3 tomoe sharingan you react faster but you aren t faster yourself so that disproves point argument unless you can debunk the argument that i just made give an argument of your own

No, it doesn't disprove anything as it's irrelevant to my point. Your example and your posts don't even correlate at this point.

-You've already admitted that Gai>Madara in striking speed.

Now the question is, why can't Gai react to a speed HE ALREADY MOVES AT? Stop saying that reactions has nothing to do with attacking when you only act when your brain sends signals to your body to move. The speed at which that occurs is your reaction time.

What you are saying is equal to me saying that I can run 30mph, but can't react to a 20mph car coming at me. Makes zero sense. What you are saying is equal to me saying that KCM Naruto wouldn't be able to react to someone equal in speed with him.

 

[WreckRolled]

No, it doesn't disprove anything as it's irrelevant to my point. Your example and your posts don't even correlate at this point.

-You've already admitted that Gai>Madara in striking speed.

Now the question is, why can't Gai react to a speed HE ALREADY MOVES AT? Stop saying that reactions has nothing to do with attacking when you only act when your brain sends signals to your body to move. The speed at which that occurs is your reaction time.

What you are saying is equal to me saying that I can run 30mph, but can't react to a 20mph car coming at me. Makes zero sense. What you are saying is equal to me saying that KCM Naruto wouldn't be able to react to someone equal in speed with him.

it proves that speed and reflexes are not directly proportional because that's exactly what happens, stop denying obvious evidence, let s say you have an average 0.3 s reaction time, when you punch someone first the 0.3 reaction time goes, than you punch, he has a 0.25 s reaction time but it's not enough to avoid the punch , get it ?

 

[KidGamer65]

it proves that speed and reflexes are not directly proportional because that's exactly what happens, stop denying obvious evidence, let s say you have an average 0.3 s reaction time, when you punch someone first the 0.3 reaction time goes, than you punch, he has a 0.25 s reaction time but it's not enough to avoid the punch , get it ?

Except that wasn't my claim so it's an irrelevant point to try and prove. So all you are doing is wasting my time, and wasting your time at this point. Your reaction speed always being superior to your movement speed doesn't translate to "speed goes up when you get a reaction boost". Not to mention your example has literally jack to do with anything you are stating.

How does an example depicting a slower guy being unable to avoid a faster punch prove your point that Gai can't react to his own speed?

I'm 100% sure you don't even know what you are talking about yourself. Cause if you sat down and used some common sense before replying to me, you wouldn't be trying to argue that Gai can't react to a speed he moves at, even though he wouldn't be able to move at that speed at all, let alone with the finesse he does it at if he couldn't react.

 

[WreckRolled]

Except that wasn't my claim so it's an irrelevant point to try and prove. So all you are doing is wasting my time, and wasting your time at this point. Your reaction speed always being superior to your movement speed doesn't translate to "speed goes up when you get a reaction boost". Not to mention your example has literally jack to do with anything you are stating.

How does an example depicting a slower guy being unable to avoid a faster punch prove your point that Gai can't react to his own speed?

I'm 100% sure you don't even know what you are talking about yourself. Cause if you sat down and used some common sense before replying to me, you wouldn't be trying to argue that Gai can't react to a speed he moves at, even though he wouldn't be able to move at that speed at all, let alone with the finesse he does it at if he couldn't react.

i will go step by step to make you understand things

1.your statement is "reaction speed always being superior to your movement speed"
2.can base gai react to 7 gated gai ? if no you are impying that speed and reaction time scale together so yes reaction time goes up when speed increases according to you, but that is total nonsense, get it ?

the other example was supposed to show how reaction time has nothing to do with movement speed, person b got hit in the face by person a regardless if his reaction time and speed were faster than person a because movement speed doesn t translate into attack speed, it's distance divided movement speed so you can hit someone who is much faster than you depending on distance so no you can't always react to your own speed so your point is disproven

 

[KidGamer65]

i will go step by step to make you understand things

1.your statement is "reaction speed always being superior to your movement speed"
2.can base gai react to 7 gated gai ? if no you are impying that speed and reaction time scale together so yes reaction time goes up when speed increases according to you, but that is total nonsense, get it ?

the other example was supposed to show how reaction time has nothing to do with movement speed, person b got hit in the face by person a regardless if his reaction time and speed were faster than person a because movement speed doesn t translate into attack speed, it's distance divided movement speed so you can hit someone who is much faster than you so your point is disproven

2. Wrong. Lol. Gates increasing speed overall doesn't prove that increasing one thing will increase the other. What's hilarious is that you are actually implying that Base Gai=Gated Gai in reflexes when Gated Gai keeps up with people and reacts to things that Base Gai would be blitzed by with no reaction whatsoever. How many times will we have to do this before you realize your point makes just as much sense as saying 1+1=5?

What's next?

-Base Naruto=BM Naruto in reaction speed?
-Cloaked B=Base B in reaction speed?

0.3 s reaction time, when you punch someone first the 0.3 reaction time goes, than you punch, he has a 0.25 s reaction time but it's not enough to avoid the punch

Person A is .3 and person B is .25 in reaction speed. You didn't mention anything about:

-Person B's movement speed being faster.
-You outright stated that his reaction time is slower so why in the world are you claiming the opposite?

person b got hit in the face by person a regardless if his reaction time and speed were faster than person a because movement speed doesn t translate into attack speed,

Your example doesn't even make sense and it's irrelevant, because I never said reaction speed=attack speed nor did I say that when your reflexes get a boost you move faster. I said that your reflexes will always be faster than your actual movement speed. Please stop with the irrelevant examples.

 

[Zexion~]

Madara wasn't ready for Gai where as he was ready for Minato.....

 

[KidGamer65]

Madara wasn't ready for Gai where as he was ready for Minato.....

Baseless.

 

[WreckRolled]

2. Wrong. Lol. Gates increasing speed overall doesn't prove that increasing one thing will increase the other. What's hilarious is that you are actually implying that Base Gai=Gated Gai in reflexes when Gated Gai keeps up with people and reacts to things that Base Gai would be blitzed by with no reaction whatsoever. How many times will we have to do this before you realize your point makes just as much sense as saying 1+1=5?

What's next?

-Base Naruto=BM Naruto in reaction speed?
-Cloaked B=Base B in reaction speed?



Person A is .3 and person B is .25 in reaction speed. You didn't mention anything about:

-Person B's movement speed being faster.
-You outright stated that his reaction time is slower so why in the world are you claiming the opposite?



Your example doesn't even make sense and it's irrelevant, because I never said reaction speed=attack speed nor did I say that when your reflexes get a boost you move faster. I said that your reflexes will always be faster than your actual movement speed. Please stop with the irrelevant examples.

yes my mistake about the speed not being mentioned, but you're statement, "your reflexes will always be faster than your actual movement speed" implies that youre reflexes will get faster if you're speed gets faster, it also makes no sense since reaction time has nothing to do with you're speed becasue reaction time is measured in time and speed in m/s, regardless how much speed an attack has if it is close enough you won t have enough time to react even if it's slower than your attack speed so this again disproves your point, so if gai is faster than minato it doesn t mean his reflexes are faster too even though that may be the case, also how can gai react to ay if he can t even see him ?

 

[Narutimate Storm]

Madara wasn't ready for Gai where as he was ready for Minato.....

Baseless.

Not baseless. Madara reacts to 8 gates first EE blitz much faster than 7 gate blitz.

So common sense tell you that he did was not anticipate Gai last time. If he can to react to 8 gates which much faster, then why he struggle against 7? You saw Madara cover his eyes from the 7 gate vapour before, he did not expect Gai, that is all. Stop over complicate everything.

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(Gai about to blitz Madara in 8 gate)

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(Madara react and block)

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(Madara able to keep track and to follow of Gai speed in 8 gates)

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(Madara acknowledge speed of 8 gate, he mention Gai "is fast". This Madara did not say when he face 7 gate. So we know Gai moving faster in 8 gate. Again we see Madara react and block on time).

But if I understand you correctly then pls tell everyone how you beleive 7 gate Gai is faster an 8 gate Gai. Since Madara did not block 7 gate like he did 8 gate. Go on, since that what you clearly are saying.
And no, your top speed have nothing to do with your reflexes.